Terrorism Act 2000 (Video Recording with Sound of Interviews and Associated Code of Practice) (Northern Ireland) Order 2020

Lord Murphy of Torfaen Excerpts

Friday 10th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, this has been a very good and useful debate. The Opposition absolutely and completely support the Government in this statutory instrument. We must remind ourselves that it comes under the Terrorism Act 2000. I completely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Caine, that the threat from republican dissidents and rogue loyalists still very much exists. We have only to think of the murder of Lyra McKee to emphasise that. Also, it has been an opportunity for noble Lords, particularly those from Northern Ireland, to refer to the scandalous situation whereby the Northern Ireland Executive are not in a position to pay the pensions to victims. I applaud my noble friend Lord Hain for his remarks on that.

I pay tribute to the security agencies, the judiciary, as the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, has said, the PSNI and, above all, the overwhelming number of people in Northern Ireland from every community who completely reject violence and all that goes with it. We need to modernise the tools for tackling terrorism, including digitalising the recordings of interviews, but I agree with my noble friend Lord Adonis. We should not be using video cassettes in 2020. There must be a reason why this has taken so long. Nevertheless, we are changing it now; obviously, we agree with that change.

The Minister referred to the consultation, which I think has been good. The response has not been great, but those who did respond—the PSNI, the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission—raised some very important issues which have been addressed, such as the awareness of suspects of their rights under caution. A number of your Lordships also raised the question of interpreters; that is really an issue of resources, ensuring that there is sufficient money so that interpreters can be employed.

My noble friend Lord Wood made an extremely good point about retaining the old video cassettes, which go back nearly four decades, while we are still looking at legacy investigations, including those recommended by the Government in their most recent proposals. He also mentioned the oral history archive, which was agreed in the Stormont House agreement. The preservation of those cassettes could cost a great deal of money but would be necessary if these legacy investigations continue.

However, whatever the issues that have been raised; this order very much deserves your Lordships’ support. I fully support it.