Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I first thank the Government Whips for facilitating my substitution for my noble friend Lady Ludford, who is regrettably ill today. I send her my best wishes. As my noble friend Lady Hamwee said, she will participate during scrutiny of this Bill.

We have heard reference to “take back control” today, but I do not think the Minister had in mind the image presented by the noble Lord, Lord Green, of an uncontrolled car doomed to crash. If we are taking back control, as she has said, some Members have not given it the warmest of welcomes. But the fact that the Liberal Democrat Benches are among those who have not given it a warm welcome is a lower-order issue. What is most unwelcome is that millions of EU citizens continue to endure great uncertainty, bureaucracy and cost. This is scant reward for the great contribution to our country that these people have made—to our economy, our health and care systems, our culture, as my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones indicated, and our urban and rural economy alike, as my noble friend Lady Bakewell indicated.

The Minister referred to this Bill as simple. However, a great number of uncertainties arise from it, as outlined by my noble friend Lady Hamwee, who gave a characteristically forensic but humane response to the Minister’s speech. Some of those uncertainties have been outlined clearly in this debate, such as the very appropriate questions from my noble friend Lord Greaves on the legal position across Great Britain if a legislative consent Motion from Scotland is not forthcoming. Will a system come into place, as promised in paragraph 33 of the White Paper, of a

“fully digital end to end customer journey, requiring everyone … to seek permission in advance of travel”?

Or, as the Minister and the White Paper have been silent on numbers, if the Government disagree with the prognosis of the noble Lord, Lord Green and, as page 20 of the 2019 Conservative manifesto said,

“overall numbers will come down”,

to what level and over what timeframe? How will we know if this is a success and how will we be able to hold the Government to account for it?

What will be the limits on the order-making powers in Clauses 4 and 5, as the noble Lord, Lord Wood, asked? The Minister referred to possible reciprocity with regard to UK citizens across the European Union— I stress “possible”. If it is possible that agreement will not be reached, there must surely be contingency arrangements. Will the Government publish those now? People need to know whether they will be enjoying the rights of UK citizens six months on.

The Minister also implied that Clause 2, on Irish citizens, is straightforward. As the Bill proceeds, we will scrutinise that further. We know that those who come from Ireland, processing through Northern Ireland from 1 January next year, are a distinct case. The Government say that the UK has left the single market, but while Great Britain has, the UK in its entirety has not—one whole nation remains. In the words of Boris Johnson to UK citizens there:

“You keep free movement; you keep access to the single market”.


With a common travel area with no immigration processes for people also living under the EU single market, or for those under the free movement of people rule set by the European Union going forward from next January, how will we know when they travel to Great Britain and what will the processes be? It may not be that a border point will be required in my home town of Berwick-upon-Tweed, as the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, indicated, but what are the internal United Kingdom immigration processes to be? These are unprecedented and likely to be very unwelcome.

Turning to most of those who move from Northern Ireland to GB, or accompanying goods and for trades and services, this leads on to the issue raised with regard to trade. Another of the Minister’s comments that weakens when there is greater scrutiny was that we will have a single system with no privilege for particular nationalities. However, that is not the case, as the UK trade agreement with the Swiss Confederation illustrates. We know that Australia and New Zealand have asked for differential visa arrangements and that this is also part of the discussions with the European Union. The Government themselves have asked for preferential treatment for those working in banking and the City of London. Perhaps that is what the difference is when my noble friend Lady Hamwee asked who the best are. If they have money, we will want them, but if they have not, they will have to struggle.

Finally, “the brightest and best” will, I think, gradually be seen, along with “global Britain” as a toom tabard, as we in Scotland would say—an empty coat. The time for sloganising has gone; the campaigns for referenda or elections are finished. We now face the hard task of legislating and we need to make the Bill better. As my noble friend Lady Hamwee indicated, it needs to be a more humane piece of legislation. Through those amendments that will be pioneered by my noble friend Lady Barker and others, we will give the Bill scrutiny. It is unwelcome, but we will try to make it better for all those people who are currently going to endure it.

Port Examination Codes of Practice and National Security Determinations Guidance Regulations 2020

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Friday 10th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I think the whole House agreed with the Minister when she said in her opening remarks that the country is facing a sustained threat of hostile activity from states. I want to ask two questions about the practicalities of enforcing some elements of the guidance which have been referred to by other noble Lords. One question refers to what I will term “intelligence ports of entry”, as regards us knowing the likelihood of people who are presenting themselves as hostile to the UK when they come to the UK. My other question is about physical ports of entry and the capabilities that we will have at them after 1 January 2021.

With regard to intelligence ports of entry, throughout the guidance and the legislation is the assumption that we will use intelligence-led security information from our officers at the ports of entry. I want to ask a question that the former Prime Minister asked the current Prime Minister on 3 June. She asked whether,

“the UK will have access to the quantity and quality of data that it currently has through Prüm, passenger name records, the European Criminal Records Information System and SIS—Schengen Information System—II, none of which, I believe, should require the European Court of Justice jurisdiction in the UK?”—[Official Report, Commons 3/6/20; col. 846.]

The Prime Minister was not able to give that reassurance. Given that no-deal planning and contingency arrangements have been dropped because of the Government’s assumption that we would have a security treaty with the European Union, what mechanisms will be in place to ensure that we can still rely on that data and that these officers can use that intelligence when people come to the UK?

My second question relates to paragraph 6 of the Schedule 3 guidance with regard to the examination of goods. The International Trade Secretary, Liz Truss, wrote to the Chancellor and the Minister for the Cabinet Office, Michael Gove, that a failure to make sure that all ports are ready to carry out the full range of checks from 1 January next year will mean that we are vulnerable not only to smugglers but to those with hostile interest. We already know that there has been a deferral of six months for full security checks at our ports of entry. Can the Minister assure us that there will not be a delay in these crucial elements at our ports?

Reading Terrorist Attack

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord makes a valid point. Technology has its place in keeping us safe. We need to advance that technology in a way that strikes a balance between privacy and protection. Sometimes by breaching people’s privacy, you give them their freedom. There is so much advanced technology available to help keep us safe and it is important that we use it.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

I will not ask the Minister to comment on the ongoing investigation because I know that she will not. There have been reports that the detained person had been accessing mental health services. Will she assure the House that, if lessons are to be learned from this tragic incident, the availability of mental health services in the community beyond those in the criminal justice system will also be considered? Even before this crisis, the Government’s record on providing mental health services for those seeking them has been very poor. Can we be assured that mental health services, specifically for young people and for those coming out of a criminal justice or prison situation, will be included as part of her stocktaking exercise?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord is right to point out that I will not comment on this individual case. There has been a lot of emphasis on mental health services in the last year or two. It is absolutely right that, if someone comes out from a prison—or indeed a hospital—with mental health needs, the wraparound service is there to protect them as they recover from it.