Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Tuesday 21st October 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The secure supply of medical radioisotopes is critical for the treatment and diagnosis of many conditions. Is this the Department’s responsibility, and does it support the Welsh Government’s Project Arthur scheme at the nuclear licenced site in Trawsfynydd in my constituency?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the right hon. Member for that question. Security of supply is obviously of importance to the entire Government. My portfolio includes pharmacy, which is a very important part of that. I would be very happy to meet her to discuss further the matter she has raised.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-ninth sitting)

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Committee stage
Tuesday 25th March 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank my hon. Friend for that clarification. It is very helpful, because I perhaps did not quite understand what the hon. Member for East Wiltshire said. My hon. Friend sets out very clearly the optionality represented in new clause 36.

The new clause further ensures that voluntary assisted dying services provided as part of the health service must be free of charge, unless charging is expressly provided for. Subsection (6) confirms that regulations made under this new clause can make provisions with the same effect as an Act of Parliament, including amending other primary legislation. However, they cannot amend the provisions in this Bill. The amendment also defines voluntary assisted dying services.

Amendment (a) to new clause 36 would prohibit regulations being made that authorise the provision of voluntary assisted dying services by the NHS in England. The Secretary of State would still have a duty to ensure that arrangements are made for the provision of assistance, but not by the NHS. The Secretary of State could, for example, make arrangements for another body to provide assistance, which would mean that the Secretary of State could not ensure that assistance was provided in accordance with the Bill or through the NHS in England. This would apply only to England, not Wales. Welsh Ministers could still make regulations for the provision of voluntary assisted dying services by the NHS in Wales. This could result in a divergence between England and Wales in the provision of assisted dying services.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The Committee should be aware that the Isle of Man has today passed an assisted dying Act, and we already have divergence between the different jurisdictions of the United Kingdom.

[Stephen Kinnock]

I think we are all moving in a direction where, if this Bill passes, we would like its delivery in England and Wales to be compatible, based on full respect for the devolution settlement and for the legislative consent motions. Divergence in the context of the devolution settlement is what the right hon. Lady is keen to achieve, and I think she is working with my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley to achieve that aim.

Amendment (b) to new clause 36 would provide that the Secretary of State must, by regulations, make arrangements for the provision of assisted dying services in England. The amendment would remove the provision that regulations under new clause 36 may provide that specified references to the health service in the NHS Act include reference to commissioned assisted dying services. Secondly, it removes subsection (5), which states that regulations under new clause 36

“must provide that section 1(4) of”

the NHS Act

“applies in relation to commissioned VAD services”,

which provides that health services must be free of charge unless exceptions apply. Finally, amendment (b) to new clause 36 explicitly provides that regulations made under subsection (1)

“may not amend, modify or repeal section 1 of the National Health Service Act 2006.”

If accepted, the proposed amendment may impact the provision of assisted dying services through the health service in England. The effect would be that section 1 of the NHS Act could not be amended, modified or repealed via regulations under new clause 36(1). The proposed amendment applies only to England, and the restriction does not apply to Welsh Ministers. This could result in a divergence between England and Wales in the provision of assisted dying services, as Welsh Ministers could amend section 1 of the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006.

Amendment (c) to new clause 36 would limit the scope of the Secretary of State’s power in subsection (1) of new clause 36 to make regulations that secure arrangements for the provision of voluntary assisted dying services in England. Under this amendment, such regulations cannot authorise the provision of assistance by a body other than a public authority, even if that body is contracted by a public authority to do so. That would effectively prevent the NHS from contracting with private providers to provide assistance. The NHS regularly contracts private providers to provide NHS services. It is possible that being unable to do so here may present operational challenges. The amendment applies only to England, and the restriction does not apply to Welsh Ministers. That could result in a divergence between England and Wales in the provision of voluntary assisted dying services.

Amendment (d) to new clause 36 seeks to limit the Secretary of State’s power to amend, revoke or repeal other legislation for the purpose of making provision for assisted dying services.

[Stephen Kinnock]

The hon. Member is absolutely right that it is a different situation from the point of view of devolution. Perhaps my answer was conditioned by the intervention of the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, so I perhaps jumped to a conclusion.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

On that point, we are also expecting a decision in Holyrood in Scotland, which I think the Committee will agree is part of the United Kingdom. These jurisdictions influence our discussions in this place.

[Stephen Kinnock]

The right hon. Lady makes a valid point, although Scotland has a different legal system from the one that governs England and Wales. That takes us back to the legal jurisdiction question versus the devolution of health service delivery. How to make those two work compatibly is a key challenge that the Committee is seeking to address.

Amendment (d) to new clause 36 could limit the Secretary of State’s ability to make provision for assisted dying services via the health service in England. For example, it could limit who can commission and regulate assisted dying services, as the Secretary of State will not have the power to amend primary legislation. If the amendment were agreed, the Secretary of State would not be able to make, via regulation, the required amendments to relevant legislation for the purpose of enabling the provision of assisted dying services in England. The Committee may wish to note that the amendment would apply only to England, which could lead to a divergence in provision between England and Wales.

Amendment (e) to new clause 36 would add two requirements. First, it would provide that the Secretary of State could not lay regulations concerning the provision of voluntary assisted dying services in England unless an impact assessment of the regulations is also laid before both Houses of Parliament. Secondly, the impact assessment would need to include

“an assessment of the impact of such regulations on the workforce of health professionals and on the National Health Service.”

An impact assessment is routinely prepared to accompany secondary legislation. The amendment would impose a legal requirement on the Secretary of State to prepare an impact assessment that must be laid before both Houses to assess the impact on the workforce of health professionals and on the NHS in England. Practically, this could cause delays in making regulations under the Bill, by requiring a duplicative impact assessment to accompany each set of regulations, including regulations that make minor or consequential amendments. [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

We have received additional evidence from the Welsh Language Commissioner that bears on this new clause quite considerably. The comments result from our discussions of amendments 413, 427 and 428, and amendment (a) to new schedule 2, and it is worth having an interpretation of them on record.

The safeguarding process is a matter of Welsh language legal rights and a clear communicative necessity. The Welsh Language Commissioner says that

“it is essential that Welsh speakers can discuss the decision to end their own life through the medium of Welsh if they so wish.”

The key word here is “discuss”. We are very used in Wales to the convention of documentation and information being available in bilingual forms., However, in previous amendments on the Welsh language, I have endeavoured to make sure that those involved in the process are—to the degree that all reasonable steps have been taken—able to converse with fluent proficiency in the preferred language of the person who comes before them seeking their support and their judgment in relation to capacity and coercion.

Therefore, all reasonable steps should be taken to ensure that the key human aspect of this discussion—the conversations between the person and the co-ordinating doctor, the independent doctor and the panel—should be conducted in Welsh, where that is the preferred language. Welsh speakers should not have to request to be able to use Welsh every time the process moves from one person to another; that should be recognised at the beginning of the process. Again, all reasonable steps should be taken to ensure that people are able to communicate in the language with which they are most naturally comfortable—the language that comes to them when they express perhaps their deepest fears and greatest emotions. On occasion, it will be difficult to find people in a reasonable timespan, and we will need to train people in certain roles, but that is where the “all reasonable steps” requirement comes in.

Forgive me, it is late, but it is important for me to take a little time, because the commissioner notes that there has already been some discussion in Committee about whether provisions are necessary in the Bill. The commissioner goes on to say:

“The Welsh Language Standards (No.7) Regulations 2018 are the relevant standards which apply to health boards and NHS trusts in Wales. Although the standards place duties to provide a range of services through the medium of Welsh (such as correspondence, case conferences, documents and forms), they do not go as far as to place duties on health boards to ensure that Welsh speakers can receive clinical services through the medium of Welsh.”

That is why we need my new clause in the Bill. Legislation as it stands in relation to Wales is not sufficient even to give us the “reasonable steps” provision.

The commissioner says that although in Wales

“Welsh Language standards apply to NHS primary care services that are contracted by the health boards, Welsh language standards currently don’t apply to independent providers. However, a limited number of Welsh language duties have been placed on independent primary care providers”—

that is GPs, of course. The commissioner continues:

“As is the case with respect to the Welsh language standards, these duties do not go as far as ensuring that Welsh speakers can receive clinical primary care services through the medium of Welsh.”

That again is why “all reasonable steps” is about doing the best we can to ensure that people are able to communicate in the language that comes most naturally to them.

The commissioner also says:

“It is important to note that the standards set out duties relating to health services in general, while the Bill in question relates to a much more specific and specialised service. It also relates to a highly sensitive issue where being able to provide in an individual’s first language is essential. The key point here is that stronger provisions could be made in an area such as assisted dying compared to that which would be practically possible in standards relating to health services more generally. As such, if there is an opportunity to make specific provisions in legislation regarding ensuring clinical services through the medium of Welsh then it should be done.”

I know that there are two concerns, and I have already mentioned the phrase “all reasonable steps”. I want us to have a decision in this place, here and now, and to hear back from the promoter and Ministers that there is an appreciation that we need something in the Bill. The Welsh Language Act 1993, as it applies to the judiciary, gives the individual only the right to speak Welsh; it does not give them the right to discuss or to be understood. Through the written evidence I have quoted, I hope I have been able to show that the Welsh language standards in Wales do not go as far as we need them to in this legislation.

The other point—again, this is part of our finding our way with amendments—is that my understanding is that the new clause would apply to the geographic area of Wales only; it would not apply in England, as is normal with other legislation in this respect.

I want to hear the response from the promoter and Ministers before I decide whether to press my new clause to a vote. However, I do feel, on this final day, that we need to have something on record that says we respect the use of the Welsh language and we will do our best to ensure that the provisions act effectively in that respect.

[Stephen Kinnock]

The new clause would ensure that anyone seeking assistance under the Bill in England or Wales receives any services, reports, declarations or certificates of eligibility in Welsh if that is their first or preferred language. It is linked to the amendments tabled by the promoter to ensure that the form and content of any statement or declaration be set out in regulations, rather in the schedules to the Bill.

The new clause would require any regulations made specifying the form and content of declarations or statements required in relation to the first declaration, the co-ordinating and independent doctors’ assessments, the second declaration and the final statement to make provision for those to be provided in both English and Welsh.

A legal requirement that all services, as well as reports, declarations or certificates of eligibility, must be provided in Welsh, where an individual’s first or preferred language is Welsh, would go beyond usual practice in England. Such a requirement may lead to operational issues, such as there being a reduced pool of registered medical practitioners or assisted dying panel members who are able to carry out the functions under the Bill.

I want to put on record again the Government’s continued commitment to devolution and to working with the devolved Governments. The Government have taken a neutral position on the Bill and on the matter of assisted dying, but we are committed to working together with the Welsh Government to resolve any legal and technical issues, and to discussing constitutional matters that might arise.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting)

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Committee stage
Wednesday 5th March 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Stephen Kinnock]

What we are trying to say is that the important thing here is to ensure that, when the Secretary of State brings the regulations forward, the hands of the Secretary of State are not tied too tightly, so that the Secretary of State is able to bring together the right people, to deliver the right training, to achieve the outcomes that are required through the regulations. Our assessment is that this amendment would, in essence, narrow the pool of people available to do the training. That would seem to pre-empt the idea behind doing this through regulations, which is to ensure that there is up-to-date training that is responsive to where we may or may not be two years down the line from the Bill having its commencement. It is about having that flexibility and that ability to build capacity.

Amendment 340 would place the Secretary of State under a duty to make regulations requiring a co-ordinating doctor to have specific and up-to-date training relating to reasonable adjustments and safeguards for autistic people and people with a learning disability. I note that amendments 185 and 186, if passed, would impose a duty on the Secretary of State to specify the training, qualifications and experience that the co-ordinating doctor will need.

The consequence of this amendment would be to require the Secretary of State to introduce a further requirement on the co-ordinating doctor—to have undergone training relating to reasonable adjustments and safeguards for autistic people and people with a learning disability. In considering whether the amendment is required, I note that the Health and Social Care Act 2008 requires that all CQC-registered health and adult social care providers ensure that their staff receive specific training on learning disability and autism.

Amendment 427 would impose an obligation to take all reasonable steps to ensure that the co-ordinating doctor is proficient in the Welsh language if services or functions under this legislation are to be provided to an individual in Welsh in Wales. The amendment does not make it clear who would be obliged to ensure that those steps were taken, or who would assess and enforce whether the “fluent proficiency” standard was met.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

What the Minister is referring to is the appropriate authorities, because areas related to training and regulation of registered practitioners in Wales are devolved to the Welsh Government. I will be touching on that later, but I would beg him to approach the amendment in that spirit.

[Stephen Kinnock]

I know that we are coming on to the question of appropriate authorities and I absolutely see and understand the spirit in which this amendment is suggested. The challenge is just about the potential for it to lead to operational issues, such as a reduced pool of registered medical practitioners who are able to carry out the function of a co-ordinating doctor under this legislation.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

That is exactly why the amendment includes a reference to “all reasonable steps”. It is with that in mind. This is reflected in other legislation where similar concerns have been expressed.

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the right hon. Lady for that. We go back to the point about the true significance of the 2011 Welsh Government Measure, which sets a basic foundation for the duty of the Welsh Government to ensure that Welsh language provision is provided through the Welsh NHS. There is absolutely no debate about that point; that is nailed on. The question is simply how we ensure, if we are to amend this Bill along the lines that the right hon. Lady suggests, that that does not create a lacuna or confusion in the system. I think we need to sit down and discuss that, to ensure that whatever we propose is watertight.

It may be helpful to note, as in discussion of amendment 413, that regardless of this amendment, under the Welsh Language Measure of 2011 the NHS in Wales has a statutory duty to deliver its services to the public in both Welsh and English. That legislation gives the Welsh language official status in Wales, and the Measure states that individuals in Wales should be able to conduct their lives through the medium of Welsh if they choose to do so. The Welsh Government’s active offer for health is intended to support all staff across NHS Wales to provide a service in Welsh for patients without their having to ask for it.

Under amendment 20, regulations made by the Secretary of State on the necessary training, qualifications and experience of the co-ordinating doctor would be required to include mandatory training relating to domestic abuse, including coercive control and financial abuse. Amendments 185 and 186, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley, would require that regulations made by the Secretary of State on the necessary training, qualifications and experience of the co-ordinating doctor covered training related to assessing capacity and whether a person has been coerced or pressured by another person. But I note that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley has said, she is minded to support amendment 20, which clearly would ramp up the requirement, as previously discussed.

As I have said, the Government have taken a neutral position on the substantive policy questions relevant to how the law in this area could be changed, but to clarify the intent of the Bill, we have worked with my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley in relation to amendments 185 and 186, which would place the Secretary of State under a duty to make regulations regarding the necessary training, qualifications and experience of the co-ordinating doctor. That would include specific training on assessing capacity and assessing whether a person has been subject to coercion or pressure.

I hope that that explanation and those observations have assisted the Committee. I thank hon. Members for their attention.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Kinnock]

Amendments 144 to 171, tabled by the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, relate to the powers and duties vested in the Secretary of State under the Bill. The purpose of the amendments is to change all references throughout the Bill from “Secretary of State” to “appropriate authority”. Amendment 169 defines “appropriate authority” as the Secretary of State in relation to England and as Welsh Ministers in relation to Wales. I note the intent of the promoter of the Bill, my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley, that the Bill’s provisions extend and apply to both England and Wales.

The amendments would mean that all the powers and duties vested in the Secretary of State are instead shared between the Secretary of State where they relate to England and Welsh Ministers where they relate to Wales. I would like to put on the record the Government’s continued commitment to devolution and to working with the devolved Governments. Having taken a neutral position on the Bill and the matter of assisted dying, the Government are still committed to working with the Welsh Government to resolve legal and technical issues and discuss constitutional matters that might arise thoughtfully and amicably.

With regard to the phrase “appropriate authority”, the challenge is that in each case throughout the Bill the appropriate authority would be determined by the devolution position of the clause in question—what is the underlying question that the clause seeks to address, and is that a reserved or devolved matter? I have discussed this with parliamentary counsel and others, and the concern is that a blanket provision of this nature may well be premature at this stage. Until we have finalised and determined the constitutional nature and impact of each clause, putting a blanket provision in place may run counter to that process.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I have a simple question: in relation to the Sewel convention, if not now, when? We should have clarity on these points. I hope the Minister will forgive me if this is slightly longer than an intervention, but he gives me no option in the here and now but to withdraw the amendments, because I will not push them to a vote if it is likely to be lost. However, these are serious questions. How does this respect the Sewel convention? As a Back-Bench MP, I am not in a position to answer that, and I would have expected the Government to provide clarity on these points earlier than Committee stage. I assure the Minister that I will push this issue on Report if we do not have a satisfactory resolution on the Sewel convention.

[Stephen Kinnock]

It is, of course, the right hon. Lady’s prerogative to press amendments as and when she sees fit. I am simply flagging that terminology such as “appropriate authority” risks tying the hands of the legislative process in a way that could have perverse outcomes. A clause that should be the lead responsibility of Welsh Ministers could instead end up in the hands of Secretary of State due to the lack of clarity or relative vagueness of the term “appropriate authority”.

The Government’s suggestion is to work through each clause and be specific about the lead responsibility in each case—is it the Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers? We are open to discussing whether it is better to do it that way or with the terminology “appropriate authority”; we are simply flagging that there are risks associated with that term.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Before the Minister sits down, will he commit to engaging with me on this issue to identify the specific needs in the spirit of what I have bought forward?

[Stephen Kinnock]

Yes, absolutely, and before Report. Let us ensure that we do that, and that parliamentary counsel is in the room. I am not a constitutional lawyer, so we definitely need people in the room who can speak to these issues. Of course, it also needs to be done in close dialogue with colleagues in the Welsh Government, particularly given what was said earlier about the need for a legislative consent motion.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Seventeenth sitting)

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Committee stage
Tuesday 4th March 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Stephen Kinnock]

This group of amendments focuses on language and literacy barriers, including discussion of the use of interpreters and translations. If amendment 414 is agreed to, a registered medical practitioner who conducts a preliminary discussion with a person will first have to ensure the provision of adjustments for language and literacy barriers, including the use of interpreters. It may be helpful to note that, in all areas of practice, registered medical practitioners must uphold the standards in the GMC’s “Good medical practice”, which includes the provision of adjustments for language and literacy barriers.

The purpose of amendment 413 is to require medical practitioners in Wales who are conducting the initial discussion outlined in clause 4 to

“discuss with the person their preferred language of Welsh or English.”

It may be helpful to note that under the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011, the NHS in Wales has a statutory duty to deliver its services to the public in both Welsh and English. The Measure, which gives the Welsh language official status in Wales, states that

“persons in Wales should be able to live their lives through the medium of the Welsh language if they choose to do so.”

The Welsh Government’s active offer for health is intended to support all staff across NHS Wales to provide a service in Welsh for patients, without their having to ask for it.

Technically, I would note that the amendment does not require the medical practitioner to conduct the initial discussion in the person’s preferred language, or to refer the person to another medical practitioner who can conduct it in the person’s preferred language, if they are unable to do so themselves. I have discussed that point with the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd and am more than happy to have a further discussion about how her amendment might work. The concern that I simply flagged was that we have the 2011 Measure and, as with so many of these things, there is a law of unintended consequences. An amendment that may be designed with the best possible intentions could end up disrupting the system and causing confusion or uncertainty, which I am sure she would not want. As with all these things, that is the challenge.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

We have raised already in the Committee the need for an impact assessment. I have also raised with the Minister the need for an impact assessment in Wales. The fact that we are having this conversation shows that there is an element of uncertainty about exactly whether it is necessary for this provision to be included in the Bill. I am concerned that it could be in a code of practice; I share the concern expressed by the hon. Member for Bradford West that we do not know how such codes of practice will operate, or whether we will have any say over how they operate. However, as the Minister has come to this in a spirit of co-operation, I hope that we will find some clarity. If it appears that it is better for Welsh language speakers that such a provision be set out in the Bill, I hope that he will agree in that respect.

[Stephen Kinnock]

I am happy to have that discussion, to better understand how it might all work in practice.

If amendment 415 is agreed to, it will mean that an assessing doctor making an assessment under subsection (2) must first ensure the provision of adjustments for language and literacy barriers, including the use of interpreters. As with amendment 414, the Committee may want to note the existing standards that all medical practitioners must uphold, which include requirements for the provision of adjustments for language and literacy barriers.

Amendments 416 and 417 would amend clause 30, which states that the Secretary of State may issue codes of practice on a number of matters, including on arrangements for ensuring effective communication and the use of interpreters. The amendments would impose a duty on the Secretary of State to issue one or more codes of practice in connection with arrangements for ensuring effective communication, including the use of interpreters, and to do so within six months of the passing of the Act. The requirement to issue any such code of practice within six months may prove unworkable. Under clause 30, it would be necessary to consult on the code of practice, make regulations to allow for the code of practice to come into force, have the regulations approved by both Houses of Parliament and then issue the code of practice, all within a six-month period after the passing of the Act.

As I have said, the Government will continue to remain neutral on whether or how the law in this area should change. As I have made clear, that is a matter for the Committee and for Parliament as a whole. However, I hope that these observations are helpful to members of the Committee in considering the Bill and the amendments tabled to it.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Ninth sitting)

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Committee stage
Tuesday 11th February 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Stephen Kinnock]

As I set out from the Dispatch Box when we had the money resolution, the Government will publish an impact assessment before Report. Given that this is a highly dynamic Bill, with a whole range of amendments having been tabled, and that it is not really possible to publish an impact assessment on the basis of a Bill that has not cleared a Bill Committee, there is a simple point of sequencing. That is why we are going to publish the impact assessment after the Bill Committee has completed.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I was glad to hear what the Minister said about the Government accepting the Mental Capacity Act as a basis. We should remember that in 2005, that Act widened the availability of autonomy for individuals. We are discussing that here: how to enable autonomy for individuals. I also really welcome what the hon. Member for Bradford West said about impact assessments. Can the Minister commit now to an impact assessment specifically for Wales? The context of health and social care there is very different from that in England.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Ninth sitting)

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Tuesday 11th February 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Stephen Kinnock]

As I set out from the Dispatch Box when we had the money resolution, the Government will publish an impact assessment before Report. Given that this is a highly dynamic Bill, with a whole range of amendments having been tabled, and that it is not really possible to publish an impact assessment on the basis of a Bill that has not cleared a Bill Committee, there is a simple point of sequencing. That is why we are going to publish the impact assessment after the Bill Committee has completed.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I was glad to hear what the Minister said about the Government accepting the Mental Capacity Act as a basis. We should remember that in 2005, that Act widened the availability of autonomy for individuals. We are discussing that here: how to enable autonomy for individuals. I also really welcome what the hon. Member for Bradford West said about impact assessments. Can the Minister commit now to an impact assessment specifically for Wales? The context of health and social care there is very different from that in England.

Support for the Welsh Economy and Funding for the Devolved Institutions

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Tuesday 5th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I am sure that you would love to give me another 10 minutes to talk about the achievements of the Welsh NHS, but unfortunately I am not sure that I would get away with it. The fact is that there is a list of achievements. It has invested more in the recruitment of nurses, which is at record levels. The Welsh NHS vaccine roll-out programme was a tremendous success; I recognise that the roll-out has been a success across the United Kingdom, and I am absolutely delighted about that, but the Welsh NHS really stepped up and delivered. There are so many achievements that we do not have time to discuss today, so perhaps the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire would like to secure another debate on the topic.

I feel for the people of England and Scotland, who have not had the support that we have had in Wales. The answer is clearly for them and their fellow British citizens across the UK to vote to replace this pitiful, debased and degraded UK Conservative Government with a Labour Government driven by purpose, patriotism and the national interest, rather than the self-interest and saving of their own skin that we are seeing from the current Government.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Does the hon. Gentleman join me in welcoming the decision taken by Labour in Wales over the weekend to increase the size of the Senedd? Surely the point is that we need better scrutiny of the services carried out in Wales. Does he also join me in welcoming the major initiative, also agreed to in the vote over the weekend, to change the voting system, moving away from first past the post and towards a list system? It shows that in Wales we can bring about a different sort of politics by working together.

[Stephen Kinnock]

The reality is that the Senedd simply did not have enough Members to hold the Government to account. There were not enough Back Benchers on Committees. Scrutiny is a vital part of our democracy—the right hon. Lady is right about that point.

Wales faces a UK Government who have broken their promises to the people of Wales. It has become clear that when providing a replacement for EU farm funding, the UK Government are deducting EU receipts due to Wales for work that was part of the 2014 to 2020 rural development programme, meaning that Wales’s rural communities are £243 million worse off than they should be. That is a devastating blow to those communities.

HM Passport Office Backlog

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Tuesday 14th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

On the causes of this, it is absolutely vital to recognise that the lack of investment in our public services is what has fundamentally left us exposed, and these are the problems we are facing today. On the hon. Gentleman’s specific point, the fact of the matter is that there should be an apology to people whose holidays have been wrecked and who have not been able to get to job appointments, funerals and weddings within the timeframe that we are discussing today.

Crime was already at record highs going into the pandemic, but now the court backlog is so long that in 95% of cases victims of violent crime will be waiting more than a year for their day in court—a direct result of Conservative Ministers cutting one pound in every four from the justice budget. Those who need an operation on the NHS can enjoy the luxury of 6 million people on NHS waiting lists, or, if they are in too much pain, they can take their sleeping bag down to their local A&E department for a 12 or 13-hour stay. If you want to go on holiday, you had better hope that you have ridden your luck in the game of pre-flight bingo we are all now forced to play as we cross our fingers and turn up at an airport—that is, of course, assuming that you are lucky enough to receive your new passport. Welcome to backlog Britain.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will share my dismay at learning that a professional seafarer was forced to miss the crew change on his vessel having waited for 11 weeks to receive a replacement for a damaged passport, specifically because of this Government’s inefficiency. This is a professional seafarer who is a key worker forced to miss his crew change. It is not just a matter of holidays—it is affecting people professionally as well.

[Stephen Kinnock]

The right hon. Lady is absolutely right. There are holidays, weddings and funerals, but there are also direct impacts on people who have needed to go on work assignments abroad. There is the seafarer that she mentioned. There are so many examples of why, when public services are failing, that directly undermines productivity in the private sector. That is why this debate is so important in terms of our economy.

This brings me to a very particular catalogue of failure delivered by the Home Office and a Home Secretary who is completely out of her depth. Under the current Home Secretary, the Home Office is simply not fit for purpose. Crime is up by 18% while prosecutions have collapsed. The six-month asylum waiting lists have hit 73,000 because the number of asylum decisions made under the Home Secretary has halved, costing the taxpayer £4 million a day in emergency hotels alone. The Passport Office delays are causing sleepless nights for thousands of families nationwide.

So today Labour Members will be voting to demand an apology from the Minister to the British people for the abject failure of the Passport Office to meet the standards that it has promised and that the taxpaying British public expect and deserve. The Government had two years to prepare for a spike in passport applications once travel restrictions were lifted. Ministers were warned repeatedly about the possible backlog but they failed to plan and so inevitably failed to deliver. Indeed, the Government’s own data shows that the number of full-time HMPO staff has dropped by 681 over the past five years. After a really tough couple of years, British families deserved a well-earned break, but thousands have missed out.

Refugees from Ukraine

Debate between Stephen Kinnock and Liz Saville Roberts

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

The vast majority of the issues that need to be resolved around bringing Ukrainians into this country are clearly to do with immigration. The fact that this brief has been shifted is a clear indication that the Prime Minister has lost confidence in the Home Secretary.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Does the hon. Gentleman share my confusion about that comment by the Minister, given that the Home Secretary was responsible for putting refugees in deeply unsuitable circumstances in Penally camp in Pembrokeshire, which has since had to be closed?