London Local Authorities and Transport for London (No. 2) Bill [Lords]
Stephen Pound Excerpts(10 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr Chope
Exactly the same point applies in relation to gated roads, which is why it is a pity that we have not heard from the two Front-Bench spokespeople on where they think the balance should be between individual local authorities, or groups of local authorities, legislating in this area and a responsibility for the Government to try to introduce a national regime.
My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East has gone through each of the amendments seriatim and tried—
Mr Chope
I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman is joining in with the debate, albeit from a sedentary position, because he has been referred to already in dispatches, as he might know. We had been hoping to hear from him on immobilisation devices, but he has now put on record his enthusiasm for the word “seriatim”.
Let me take the amendments one by one for the benefit of the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound). My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East said that he did not think that amendment 10 would be appropriate because of the conflict between the national and local legislation. This is an opportunity for London to lead the field so that others can follow. It would be sensible, taking amendments 15 and 10 together, to require that in London skips should have the name, address and telephone number of the owner clearly and indelibly marked on them. I am disappointed that the promoters are not interested in accepting those amendments but I am delighted that amendment 11 is to be accepted.
On amendments 12 and 13, I am grateful to my hon. Friend for drawing to our attention that there is a proposal to increase fourfold the maximum fine levels on the standard scales. I think that would have quite a significant impact on the cost of living of the criminal classes. It would also put into a negative position all those provisions where the maximum fine is level 3—£1,000, which is reasonable—
High Speed Rail
Stephen Pound Excerpts(11 years, 3 months ago)
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Mr McLoughlin
I can assure my hon. Friend of that. Over the new year, I saw the upgrading work at Shugborough tunnel. That is the sort of investment that no one normally sees. Until that work was done, trains could go through the tunnel at only 50 mph. They can now go through it at 125 mph. I fully accept the need for continued investment. My hon. Friend’s constituents will benefit from High Speed 2 up to Manchester and will be able to pick up the normal lines beyond that.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
May I strongly endorse what the hon. Member for South Northampton- shire (Andrea Leadsom) said about property bonds? The Secretary of State is speaking about phase 2, but he has mentioned Old Oak Common. Although I am extremely grateful to the Minister of State, Department for Transport, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) for his engagement with the local community, fear still stalks the streets of Greenford, Northolt and Perivale. Will the Secretary of State say whether it is his preference for that section of the line to be tunnelled? If so, it will be a great relief to many long-suffering constituents of mine.
London Local Authorities and Transport for London (No. 2) Bill [Lords]
Stephen Pound Excerpts(12 years, 2 months ago)
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Bob Blackman
The key point, which is clear, is that that is a criminal offence and subject to enforcement by the police nationally. The purpose behind the measure is to get to a position whereby the local authorities can impose those penalties and ensure that they are properly and effectively enforced so as to prevent people from committing quite serious offences. This sensible measure, taken in London, might eventually be rolled out across the country. We are talking about what should happen in London.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
The hon. Gentleman, who has a distinguished record in local government, will have seen the suggestion in the Bill that skips be immobilised. Leaving aside putting a Denver boot on a skip, or somehow restricting the haulage points, does he not agree that immobilising a skip will create a mound of foul, reeking refuse and rubbish that towers above that skip? Surely it would be far more sensible simply to take the damn thing away and hold it to ransom until the owner coughed up.
Bob Blackman
I was about to come to the aspect of disabling a skip on the highway. It springs to mind that local authorities might have a pound of skips filled with stinking refuse that would be unclaimed by any individual.
This is a particularly serious problem. Under the Bill, there is a power for conditions to be imposed on the provision of a skip on the public highway. That is the key point—if it is on the public highway. That will enable the local authority to insist that there are lights in place, or a guard or some other system, when that skip is placed on the highway so as to protect all road users. The local authority will be able to fix an immobilisation device—
Bob Blackman
I thank my hon. Friend for the intervention. I have no objection to the Government coming forward with legislation. I am sponsoring the measure on behalf of London authorities, which all agree that this is a severe problem in London. It may well be that in my hon. Friend’s constituency there is a problem, in which case he can promote suitable legislation there. This is all about proper localism. As I suggested earlier, in the fulness of time other local authorities may also lobby the Government for such measures. This is all about implementing a measure in London, trying it out and possibly rolling it out across the country, as I suggested earlier.
Clause 16 deals with interference with barriers and makes it an offence to open, close or interfere, without lawful excuse, with a barrier that is erected by a traffic authority that is intended to prevent the passage of vehicles or any class of vehicles into, out of or along a highway. There has been no objection to this sensible measure. A number of roads in London are closed off for normal purposes, but there is a requirement that barriers should be movable for emergency vehicles to gain access. Unfortunately, because barriers can be moved, unscrupulous individuals tend to move them. The clause would make it an offence to do so unless one is a proper person duly qualified by the highway authority to do so.
There have been substantial objections to clause 17, which deals with pedicabs. The promoters will seek to drop the clause in Committee. Despite that, there have been a large number of objections. Hon. Members who have been to the west end recently will almost certainly be familiar with pedicabs. They are sometimes known as bicycle rickshaws. They usually consist of a large tricycle with an open carrying cabin to the rear for passengers. They operate to all intents and purposes like taxis, charging fares for what are usually short journeys. They are found mostly in the west end of London and they are currently not regulated in London at all. They give rise to a number of problems, which have been the concern of the promoters and others.
The promoters have decided to ask the Bill Committee to remove clause 17. None the less, I should briefly explain what it would have done. The clause relates solely to traffic management; it does not deal with the safety of pedicabs or the fitness of their drivers—believe me, pedicab drivers have to be fit. The clause would have assisted the councils and TfL in identifying the owner of a pedicab and enabled them to serve a penalty charge notice when a parking or moving traffic offence had been committed.
The clause would have operated only if the councils or TfL already had arrangements in place for a voluntary registration scheme for pedicab owners or if a separate statutory licensing scheme had been enacted. That is because such a scheme would undoubtedly require pedicabs to display some sort of plate that could be used to identify the owner. The clause, in itself, would not have set up a statutory licensing or registration scheme, although there is of course a demand for that in some parts of London. An attempt to introduce a statutory registration system was made in a previous London Local Authorities and Transport for London Bill, but it was rejected by the Committee on that occasion.
Two pedicab companies, Bugbugs and Reliable Rickshaws, have petitioned against the clause, as have the London Cab Drivers Club and the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, which represents taxi drivers. As hon. Members can guess, the petitioners have very different views about the merits of the pedicab trade but are united in their opposition to the clause. Hopefully, the proposed withdrawal of the clause will appease all those who objected, but it will probably satisfy none of them.
Stephen Pound
Some of us consider these motorised rickshaws to be the greatest menace to public safety since Mr Toad first climbed behind the wheel of his Hispano-Suiza touring car. I am amazed that an organisation called Bugbugs appears to have sufficient weight to influence Her Majesty’s Government and speak for this bunch of anarchists in an organised way. Could the hon. Gentleman possibly tell us what the pedicab industry organisation is, because I have not heard of it before?
Bob Blackman
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The reality, of course, is that this Bill is being promoted not by the Government, but by London local authorities and TfL. They have been subject to considerable pressure from the pedicab trade, and most of the people concerned are individuals who ply their trade.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) on his succinct account of the Bill. He and I go back a long way with these Bills. When I was a Greater London council member, I was responsible for the promotion of GLC Bills and London local authorities Bills. He may recall that one year we introduced a policy of what we described as positive victimisation, whereby not a penny would be spent in the constituency of any London Member who did not vote for the money Bill. Unfortunately, that somewhat contravened parliamentary privilege, and I was called to the Bar of the House to account for my behaviour. Then, in a civil servant role as chief executive of the Association of London Government, I was responsible for promoting successive Bills on behalf of London local authorities.
John McDonnell
It is. I have delayed the House on these Bills on even more occasions than the hon. Member for Harrow East. I congratulate him on valiantly supporting this attempt by the London boroughs to promote legislation.
I want to deal with clause 17 and pedicabs—or rickshaws, as they are more commonly known. The hon. Member for Harrow East informed us that the promoters of the Bill are seeking amendments in Committee to remove the clause. I have received correspondence from Mr Alastair Lewis of Sharpe Pritchard on behalf of the promoters of the Bill, saying:
“I am the parliamentary agent for the promoters of the above Bill, which is down for a second reading debate next Tuesday 6 March 2012.
I am writing to let you know that the promoters propose to seek amendments at committee stage which would have the effect of removing clause 17 (Pedicabs) from the Bill. This decision follows further discussions between the promoters and representatives of the pedicab industry in which it has been agreed that the pedicab industry will take steps towards self-regulation. The promoters have been working with the pedicab industry to achieve self-regulation and consequently propose to withdraw the provisions contained in the Bill.”
Having read that into the record, I hope that there will now be no attempt not to move the amendments.
I convene the RMT parliamentary group. The RMT, which represents taxi drivers in London, has expressed genuine concerns about the role of pedicabs, as have taxi drivers themselves and people more widely within the community. London taxi drivers consider that there is unfair competition from pedicabs. London taxi drivers go through extensive training, they do the London knowledge, and they are vetted.
John McDonnell
There is unfair competition because pedicabs do not have to comply with the legislation that applies to taxis. Fitness for taxi drivers is not about physical fitness, although I am sure they are a strong body of men and women who could compare with any pedicab driver. It is about not having criminal convictions, for example, so that people who step in a London taxi can feel safe and secure. There is no vetting of pedicab, or rickshaw, drivers in that sense. There is a strict safety regime for black cabs in London, but no such regime for pedicabs. The hon. Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott) is right. The more pedicabs are allowed to continue to ply their trade on the streets of London, the more Londoners are at risk. That is why the RMT objected to the proposals in the Bill, which do not provide details of any licensing scheme that would address those issues.
The last time this matter was raised in legislation, the Opposed Bill Committee cited the Department for Transport’s concerns about pedicabs, such as the lack of any safety regime, the impossibility of identifying the owners of the pedicabs, issues over insurance and the fitness of the characters who are operating the pedicabs. The provision was thrown out by the Opposed Bill Committee on the basis that it failed to comply with any of the Department for Transport’s recommendations about the form of the licensing regime that should be introduced.
We are now left with a situation in which clause 17 has been withdrawn and there is to be a discussion with the pedicab industry. I have no idea who that will involve. We have heard about Bugbugs, but we have no idea how representative that company is of the trade. Quite honestly, it could be a group of gangmasters who hire people on cheap work rates, requiring no form of qualifications and no vetting. After the discussion with the industry, a voluntary scheme will be introduced that will be regulated on a voluntary basis.
Stephen Pound
My hon. Friend has mentioned the view of the RMT, which I respect profoundly. The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association also has a firm view about this matter. One of its objections is that these death-trap rickshaws tout for business. I wonder whether my hon. Friend has considered that. They slow down outside theatres and other places of entertainment, touting for business and negotiating prices. That is not illegal according to the Metropolitan police. We cannot simply leave the situation in limbo, because in an hour, throughout the west end, this will happen tonight. Does he agree that action needs to be taken urgently?
John McDonnell
That is exactly the point. Clause 17 is being removed from the Bill because it is not satisfactory. It does not address the issues that were pointed out to the promoters by the Department for Transport and the Opposed Bill Committee of this House. We are now faced with a free-for-all out there on the streets of London, where there are vehicles that comply with none of the legislation that licenses and authorises every other vehicle on our roads. I find that unsatisfactory. It leaves Londoners at risk.
No commitments have been given on how the voluntary arrangements will be devised or who will be consulted. Will all the petitioners against the licensing clause in the Bill be consulted? Will they be engaged in drafting the voluntary registration and regulation scheme? Will there be a wider consultation with the general public? How will the consultation take place and over what period? How long will self-regulation be allowed to operate before the Government decide whether to move to a full licensing regime? None of that has been made clear by the promoters of the Bill.
Like other hon. Members, I find this situation unacceptable. We have been discussing this matter since 2003. Nine years on, we still have no licensing regime and no concept of how the self-regulation regime will be developed and consulted on, how it will be tested, what criteria it will be tested against and when the House will address the issue again.
Mr Nuttall
I am sure it is, and I can understand that if I were a taxi driver I would be concerned about the matter. However, I am looking at it from the public’s point of view. Do hon. Members who represent London constituencies find themselves inundated by complaints at their surgeries from people who have suffered overcharging or unsatisfactory service by pedicab drivers? If there had been anything more serious than that, it would no doubt have been dealt with by the police.
It occurs to me that if this problem—if it is a problem—were to be dealt with just in the area covered by the 33 London authorities, there is a danger that pedicab drivers would relocate to Birmingham, Sheffield or Manchester, and we would have the same problem there. If there is a need for regulation, it should surely be proceeded with on a national basis.
Stephen Pound
May I open a window into the world of the London MP’s surgery? We do get complaints about pedicabs. They operate in other cities, principally Oxford, but my constituents have two objections to them. The first is the potential for a lethal incident, and the second is the absolute lawlessness and scofflaw attitude of the operators. Recruiting them into a trade union when they are not a member of a trade would be extremely difficult. People object to pedicabs and worry about them, and they want action.
Mr Nuttall
That may well be so, but given that pedicabs have been operating for so many years—certainly for nine years, although one assumes they were operating before that—I would have expected a long list of cases in which people had sued pedicab firms after incurring injuries. I heard an hon. Member say earlier from a sedentary position—or it might have been in an intervention—that pedicabs are a danger.
Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow the Minister, who I am surprised was so brief, because this is an important measure. As he said, his Department and the Government generally are still looking at the detail of it, because they have not had sufficient time to do so hitherto—as the Bill was first brought forward only in 2008. They are therefore pleading with the House tonight, “Please give us a bit more time for further detailed consideration,” and then, when the Bill goes into the Opposed Bill Committee, they will be able to decide exactly what they want.
Given that the Bill’s sponsor, our hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), whom I congratulate on having been given the accolade and responsibility for taking it through the House, has already said that he will seek in Committee to withdraw clause 17, which relates to pedicabs, and given that the Minister himself referred to the prospect of the Law Commission carrying out a review, it seems that if the Bill takes the normal course of such legislation, it will, when it leaves Committee and returns to the House, no longer contain any provisions relating to pedicabs. That is why I begin my main remarks by referring to the pedicabs issue, which raises an enormous amount of interest in London. I have to admit that I have never travelled in one, but I am conscious of the fact that they are among the most environmentally friendly forms of transport—even more so than electrically propelled motor vehicles, which are also dealt with in the Bill.
I note from the evidence that the pedicab industry has produced that most pedicab drivers are self-employed entrepreneurs serving the interests of the people of London and now, as we have heard, of other parts of the country. They have developed a business that meets the needs of the public, and done so totally outside the sphere of regulation, except that pedicabs are propelled by bicycles, which are subject to regulation under the Road Traffic Act 1991 and the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
Pedicabs themselves are not subject to any specific regulation, but this Bill, when it was brought forward, contained definitions of pedicabs which were offensive to everybody: offensive to the taxi trade, to the pedicab industry and, probably, to the people of London—if they applied their minds to the matter. I note that it is now proposed that the pedicab industry should engage in self-regulation and that the promoters of the Bill are making specific arrangements with the pedicab industry to encourage that approach. However, is that consistent with what has taken place before? The hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) was particularly brief in his remarks.
Mr Chope
Perhaps. That might be because the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse did not want to draw the House’s attention to the fact that the issue of pedicabs was raised when his party was in government and the House was considering the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Bill 2004-05 to 2007-08. I think that I am right in saying that he was a member of the Government at the time. On that occasion, the Government said:
“The clauses relating to pedicabs did not address the concerns the Government had about passenger safety. The clauses made no provision for any minimum standards to be applied to or for any checks to be carried out on pedicabs, their riders, or their operators, nor for any training to be required or for a registration to be refused, suspended or revoked. The Government pointed out that the registration of pedicabs under these clauses could be mistakenly viewed by the public as an endorsement of the vehicle's basic roadworthiness and the character of the rider.”
The then Government took the view that there was a serious problem that needed to be addressed and that the private legislation was not going far enough. Tonight, the Opposition seem to be taking the line that it is probably a good idea to withdraw even the proposals in this Bill relating to pedicabs.
Cycling
Stephen Pound Excerpts(12 years, 2 months ago)
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Alison Seabeck
My right hon. Friend makes a good point, drawing on his cycling experience. Some roads have junction spaces in front of the cars where cyclists can go, which makes the experience much safer.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
I will be brief. My hon. Friend has a proud record of working closely with local government. May I draw her attention to the London borough of Ealing? It has just renegotiated its refuse contract, and one condition is that every refuse collection lorry must have triple mirrors, which allows it complete visibility, and shielded rear wheels so that there is none of the horror of people falling under wheels and getting chewed up. That is something that can be done right now with our local councils. One of the good things—probably the only good thing—about part-privatisation is that it provides an opportunity for contracts to be renegotiated.
Civil Aviation Bill
Stephen Pound Excerpts(12 years, 3 months ago)
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Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
I should like to begin by thanking right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the House for their warm welcome since my election in December. Little can prepare people for stepping into the Chamber for the first time, and for the overwhelming sense of history that has unfolded on these green Benches.
I am proud to be able to represent the area where I grew up. Before moving to Bedfont, we lived above my parents’ shop in Osterley—a community shop that sold school uniforms along with imported crafts and jewellery from India. I attended Heston infants and junior school, where my mother was a teacher for nearly 20 years. The school has transformed now, being one of the 4,000 schools built or refurbished by Labour since 1997—investment that is still making a difference to the education of young people across the country.
I am the first member of my family to be active in politics. I remember taking part in my school elections at Heston junior school in 1983, when, as a 10-year-old, I pretended to be Michael Foot and argued for better pensions for the elderly. It would not surprise the House—with children often voting as their parents might—that in 1983, Labour came second in our school elections. However, we remained ambitious for our future.
My predecessor, Alan Keen, is a great loss to this House and to my constituency, where prior to becoming an MP he served as a councillor in Hounslow West. He was one of the first MPs I ever knew. The Guardian described him as “charming, amiable” and “kindly”. His passion and forte was sport, music, arts and leisure. The House will remember him as a long-standing member of the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport and chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on football.
He was a scout for his favourite club, Middlesbrough, for almost 20 years, where, working with Jack Charlton, he spotted footballers including Graeme Souness. He remained friends with both throughout his life. An active football player and manager of the House of Commons football team, even at age of 73, he was an inspiration to all, so much so that the House of Commons chefs and catering staff have dedicated an annual football tournament in his name.
Many will be aware of how he bravely fought cancer. Members will remember how he carried on his duties as long as he could. Our thoughts go out to his family and to his wife Ann, whom many of us in this House know and know well, and who nursed Alan through his illness.
Before and during my campaign, I heard many personal stories from people Alan helped—stories that are still being shared in mail I receive every week. It is an honour to continue his work for the people of Feltham and Heston. He was without doubt a committed constituency MP. Alan was loved, and on more than one side of this House.
I want to share a little about Feltham and Heston. My constituency is the gateway from Heathrow to London, and a powerful symbol of our nation’s diversity and of hope for the future. Hounslow has rivers, canals, nature reserves and open spaces including an urban farm near the hamlet of Hatton, by Heathrow, and the award winning Bedfont Lakes country park.
More than 140 languages are spoken in the borough of Hounslow, with a third of the population being from ethnic minorities. With our strong faith communities and inter-faith work, it is truly an example of where the global meets the local. Our multi-faith community has many active churches, temples, mosques and gurdwaras, but they are not just places of worship: the community work that volunteers lead on education, information and advice, and health and well-being, often in partnership with public agencies, is a major service to the whole community.
My constituency is supported by strong local media. The Hounslow Chronicle leads the way as the local newspaper, with ethnic minority media including Des Pardes newspaper, Maya News, Jang News, Janomot, Asian Voice, Eastern Eye—you have probably heard of them all, Mr Speaker—Sangat TV, ARY Digital, Midlands Asian Television, Channel S—
Seema Malhotra
Yes—and the Irish Post, plus radio stations such as Sunrise, Desi radio, Panjab radio and Kismat. All play their vital part in ensuring that we reach our diverse communities.
An overwhelming message from the election was that my constituents are concerned about their jobs, their cost of living and their public services. The youth claimant count last year in my constituency rose 25.2%. The long-term claimant count for the over-50s saw a rise of 48%. Both statistics are more than twice the UK average. Increased investment in Feltham and Heston and support for local businesses will be vital for the parents I met last week who are worried about the future for their children.
Like Alan in his maiden speech, and our predecessors as Feltham and Heston MPs, Russell Kerr and Patrick Ground, I want to talk about the vital contribution of Heathrow to my constituency and to the nation. My constituency borders Heathrow and has a long history of contributing to aviation. London’s first airport was in my constituency, in what is now Hanworth air park. The world’s first air passenger terminal was at Heston aerodrome in Heston West ward—it is where Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain arrived with his famous “Peace in our time” agreement from Hitler in 1938.
Today, Heathrow is the third busiest airport in the world, but it is more than just an airport. It is a hub for manufacturing for Britain and for the whole of Europe. Its success has been its proximity to London, to our motorway and rail networks and to the support that successive Governments have given to its development, acknowledging its continuing, core importance to our economy.
The operation of Heathrow airport supports well over 110,000 local jobs—approximately 22% of total local employment, and adds a gross value added of £5.3 billion. As the world’s entrance to the Olympics, it is set to be even busier this summer, with 13 August predicted to be the busiest day in its 66-year history. My constituents fly the planes, run the air traffic control, drive the trains and buses, feed the passengers, shift the air freight, police the UK border and produce and deliver British manufactured products all over the world, all from Heathrow airport. We have a huge and diverse skills base that has developed to serve the needs of the aviation industry.
Recently, there has been increasing talk of a new airport near the Thames estuary, with the vision as it stands threatening the future of Heathrow. Heathrow needs to continue to be an integral part of our future national transport strategy. A successful, thriving aviation sector is crucial for our economic competitiveness. I support the call to work together on a cross-party basis to agree a long-term strategy for aviation. Confusion about our aviation future will put jobs and growth at risk, with investors being unclear about whether to invest for the long term in Heathrow. Any strategy going forward must make the best use of existing runways and airports.
I look forward to the development of the High Speed 2 line to Heathrow. A direct link would transform accessibility from the midlands and the north, bringing Leeds and Manchester within 75 and 70 minutes respectively of Heathrow.
The Civil Aviation Bill we are debating today is designed to modernise the regulatory framework for civil aviation, which there is a pressing need to do. The Bill is welcome as it brings greater flexibility in how airports are regulated. However, there also needs to be greater clarity about how environmental impacts will be regulated. This is a key concern for my constituents and the wider west London population who are the most impacted by noise and emissions. It is important to ensure that the aviation industry is fully involved as plans for the new Civil Aviation Authority develop, to help provide greater understanding and certainty about how new regulations may be implemented.
My constituency is a place that is brimming with ambition—of families for themselves and the next generation, and of businesses for growth. It is a place where young people, such as the young men I met at Feltham skills centre training to become mechanics and engineers, want the chance to prove what they can do and create a better life for themselves and their families; where the woman I met on Feltham high street wants the help to set up her own business; and where the graduate I met in Cranford wants a chance to do more than just short-term temporary contracts. It is a place where mums and dads such as those I met at Southville community and children’s centre want to know that streets are safe for their children to play on, and that they and their daughters can walk home safely at night. It is a place where older people want to play their part in the community too, as mentors and support for the new generation coming through, but with the confidence that their needs too will be supported.
My constituency is also a place where the community spirit is strong. I am proud to carry on Alan’s Co-operative and union relationships and to join the group of Labour and Co-operative Members of Parliament, especially in the UN international year of the co-operative.
After a 15-year career in professional services, working with industry and Government Departments, it is indeed a privilege and an honour to be elected as the new Member of Parliament for Feltham and Heston, and to follow my predecessor Alan Keen in fighting for fairness and progress for a place that has so long been my home, and that has given me so much.
High-speed Rail
Stephen Pound Excerpts(12 years, 4 months ago)
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Justine Greening
Broadly, two things will happen. First, as I have said, we will consult on the compensation and blight package in spring. Secondly, we will set up structured working with local authorities and community groups on the environmental, planning and community challenges, to ensure that we can make the most of HS2 and take advantage of some of the opportunities for the environment as well as mitigating some of the downsides of going ahead with the project.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), commencement is a long way down the line, but the contemporary concern in my constituency is blight and the fear of blight. The right hon. Lady has said that discussions on the details of mitigation will take place possibly this year and possibly next year. With respect, that is not good enough for Northolt, Greenford and Perivale. Will she tell me something today so that I can explain to those people that they will have their voices heard, particularly and specifically on mitigation?
Justine Greening
Yes, I can. The hon. Gentleman will obviously be aware of the bored tunnel under Ruislip, which will significantly help his area. I would also direct him to look at the document that we have issued today setting out our review of property issues. It talks in very clear terms about the next steps, and what will happen when.
High-Speed Rail
Stephen Pound Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I have a great interest in rail and, generally speaking, I am positive and passionate about the railways. Unfortunately, however, on this occasion I have to speak negatively about High Speed 2. I am deeply sceptical of it, for a variety of reasons. It is an unnecessary route and will be very expensive, and that money would be better spent elsewhere on modernisation, electrification, re-signalling and a variety of other expenditures. Eddington took the same view in his report. He was absolutely right to say that the focus should be on commuter and inter-urban routes, above all to relieve congestion, which causes extreme expense for the whole economy; that expense will rise to tens of billions of pounds in the next two or three decades, unless we do something to relieve congestion.
Congestion is caused by a number of things, the first being passengers using cars when we should be using rail. It is also caused by heavy freight, not directly so much as indirectly, because heavy freight on roads causes road damage. What is known as the fourth power law of road damage relates axle weights to road damage, and it is lorries that cause damage to roads. I am not against lorries per se, but a lot of the traffic that goes by road should actually go by rail. Road damage means that motorways have to be coned off time and again so that roads can be repaired, which means having two lanes for long stretches instead of three. The same applies to towns. It is necessary, for the future, to get heavy freight off road and on to rail.
I spoke on this theme in a recent debate in this Chamber, and explained how we ought to spend the money in alternative ways. For example, HS2 will run from north to south. There are already north-south routes, but they have not had sufficient investment, despite their modernisation, and they do not have enough capacity as they stand. They could, however, have enough capacity if we invested heavily in modern signalling, got many more train paths on the same tracks, and got freight off those lines. Before anyone jumps in and says, “Ah, but if we build HS2, we can put the passengers on that and leave the other lines free for freight,” that is nonsense, because it is impossible for the gauge sufficiently to provide, all the way up the backbone of Britain, for getting trailers on trains and even full-scale containers on flat-bed trucks. It is not possible to rebuild all those mainline railway lines on a gauge that is sufficient to take all the freight necessary. Moreover, scores of other major stations on those lines have to serve passengers, so passenger trains have to run on those routes, whatever is done about HS2.
HS2 serves only major cities. All those hon. Members who are enthusiastic about HS2 but who are not actually served by it might find that money that could have been invested in their own routes will be sucked away and spent on HS2. People who live in Milton Keynes, Coventry—my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson) is sitting to my right—Luton and many other areas are not served. Before anyone says that I am a nimby, I am not, because HS2 will not serve or go anywhere near Luton.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
Those of us in Perivale certainly feel the pain, and there is no discernible indication of gain. On my hon. Friend’s analysis of the finances, can he enlighten us about the extent of private sector investment and involvement in this great, vast, glittering scheme?
Kelvin Hopkins
That is for the Minister to pronounce on and explain. I am a traditional socialist of the left and believe in public investment, which I think is much cheaper—the markets can be borrowed from much more cheaply, but I will not go into that now, because we will end up getting into private finance initiatives, public-private partnership and all those other financial disasters. I do not want to tread on dangerous ground, but the tube was not exactly a success, in terms of PPP. I believe in public investment, but wherever the investment comes from, it will be a very large sum that could be spent elsewhere. The opportunity costs will be great.
It would be easy to modernise the east coast main line. We could double the viaduct north of Welwyn to make four tracks instead of two; it is a pinch-point at the moment. A flyover is already being built for the Cambridge line at Hitchin. We would then need a passing loop at Peterborough, which would not be difficult, and a flyover at Newark. The whole line would then be open for 140 mph working, non-stop from King’s Cross to Edinburgh. In 1992, a test train did that route, non-stop apart from a two-minute stop at Newcastle, in three and a half hours. Interestingly, the proponents of HS2 suggest a time of three and a half hours—the exact same time that could be achieved on the existing route with a bit of modernisation.
The west coast main line is much more heavily used and serves more areas. Modernisation could get it to work at 135 mph, and similar route modifications could make it much better. We need to get the freight off that line. I repeat that freight and heavy axle weights cause more damage to tracks, which then need more repairs and more maintenance work. If we got freight off that line, and had modern signalling and many more train paths, we would have what we need up the west coast. As for passenger numbers, certainly the east coast has plenty of scope already; on the west coast, there is enough to cope for the long-term future.
I am arguing for a new, dedicated rail freight line; some hon. Members may know that I have been proposing that for a long time. I have been involved with a group of people who have a scheme that has been thought through in detail and involves a precise route. It would use old track bed and existing routes, and would involve only 14 miles of new line, nine of which is in tunnels. There would be a dedicated rail freight route up the backbone of Britain, serving all the major conurbations and linked to the channel tunnel; freight could go from Glasgow to Rome direct. The trains would be able to take full-scale lorry trailers, and double-stacked containers if necessary, all the way from the continent of Europe right through to Scotland. That is what Britain needs. That proposal would take 5 million lorry-loads off the roads, and much of the north-south freight off the east coast and west coast main lines. The supermarkets and a number of commercial organisations support the scheme.
Mr Slaughter
Absolutely, but that was always in Lord Adonis’ mind. The report that he commissioned from Lord Mawhinney clearly said that Old Oak was an appropriate, good-quality terminus and connection point to the airport, and pointed out that the Conservatives’ previous scheme of having the interchange at Heathrow would cost between £2 billion and £4 billion more; he effectively rubbished that scheme in favour of the Adonis project, which is what we have gone back to.
As I say, we should let bygones be bygones—except for this point. When the Secretary of State launched the scheme on 20 December, he made a statement in the House without presenting Members with plans and documents, so we were entirely in the dark. He went to Old Oak and launched the scheme that morning, giving notice to everyone, including the Conservative party, but not the constituency MP. The Minister and HS2 are rather short of friends at the moment, and they should look to cultivate people a little more if they wish to continue to have them speak out on their behalf.
As far as I am aware—other Members may have seen it—there is no HS2 briefing for this debate. I had no correspondence until I approached HS2 about a visit to the site. The consultation is not adequate. The only consultation for my constituents is to be held at the Westfield shopping centre, which is a long way from the site and an entirely inappropriate location, for one day; it happens to be tomorrow. If the Minister has some influence, she could take the message back to High Speed 2 that it is not making friends through its their approach.
A more serious point is this. Notwithstanding what I said in response to the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) about the effect on individual constituencies, mitigation will be the key to the project’s success. That applies to my constituency, as much of the tunnelling will take place from the Old Oak interchange. When it comes to the disposal of spoil, the road network in the area is entirely inadequate given the traffic that will be generated. We may not have anything quite like the Chilterns in Shepherds Bush, but we do have Wormwood Scrubs. It is a large open space that is ecologically sensitive, and I have been protecting it not for years but for many decades. If HS2 and the Government wish to have, if not their support, then at least the acquiescence of hon. Members, they need to go a lot further.
Stephen Pound
I shall be very brief, as I know that my hon. Friend is reaching the end of his peroration. I know that people are listening, as ever, to his words with great interest, but does he agree with Councillor Ed Rennie of Perivale, who says that it is ludicrous to hold the HS2 consultation that affects Perivale in Greenford, and would it not be better to hold it in Perivale? That is very much in line with what my hon. Friend said about the vast echoing distances between Wormwood and Westfield.
Mr Slaughter
I can only say that if I could end all my speeches with a quote from Perivale I would be a much greater orator.
Crossrail
Stephen Pound Excerpts(13 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Raynsford
I agree very much with the hon. Gentleman on both points. First, the funding package involves a range of contributions. Although the contribution from the Government, and Transport for London and the Mayor is important, the business contribution is also critical in supporting the scheme. It would be absolutely wrong if the scheme were put in jeopardy by the withdrawal of any element from any of the parties. Secondly, I agree with the hon. Gentleman that so much work has gone into the scheme already that it would be a total tragedy if its continuation were to be questioned at this stage.
Stephen Pound
This is a subject to which my right hon. Friend brings his usual expertise and passion. I agree with the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field) that there is no possibility of a U-turn on the permanent way. Linked to Crossrail is High Speed 2, a matter of great importance to those of us in west London, and we need clarity on this. We need the issue to be resolved once and for all, because people in my part of the world, in Perivale, are terrified about what might or might not happen; they just do not know. I urge my right hon. Friend, in pressing the Minister, to seek clarity on the funding for Crossrail, because this is not just about Crossrail; it is also about HS2.
Mrs Villiers
As I have said, we support Crossrail and are committed to it. The project is going ahead. It is vital to ensure that all assumptions about the risk that the scheme involves are tested rigorously by Crossrail Ltd to ensure that those risks are properly identified and reflected in cost estimates, and so that sensible steps can be taken to reduce them. The latest innovative value engineering techniques have the potential to reduce costs significantly, and Crossrail Ltd has already been able to identify 18% savings in overall indirect costs through measures such as reducing administrative and staff costs and renegotiating IT contracts.
Stephen Pound
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. She has been extremely generous, and I echo others in welcoming her to her post. I think that the least we could do is consider opening a new station adjacent to Charing Cross, perhaps in Villiers street.
Does the hon. Lady agree with one of the central points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford)—that Crossrail is not just about London but about the south-east, and the national economy? Does she agree that it is a driver for economic growth and expansion?
Mrs Villiers
I entirely agree that Crossrail will be a hugely important driver for economic prosperity, not just in the capital but throughout the United Kingdom economy.
Energetic work is continuing to find more efficiencies, and I am sure all Members will accept that the principles I have described are basic elements of good project management and simple good housekeeping.
Let me now turn to the important issues raised by the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich about Woolwich station. I am well aware—as, I am sure, are all who have followed the twists and turns of Crossrail’s long history—of the pivotal role that he has played. He fought a long and successful campaign to add a station at Woolwich to the Crossrail Act 2008. As he said, such a station could deliver significant regeneration benefits to his constituents and to south-east London more widely.
Let me make absolutely clear that I recognise the importance and magnitude of those benefits, that I hope we can find a solution, and that the Department and I are working hard with Transport for London in trying to find a way forward. However, a clear agreement was reached that the costs of building and fitting out the station would be borne by the private sector. That agreement limited the taxpayer contribution to the money saved because a station at Woolwich would reduce costs, given that some of the work originally included in the overall project would no longer be necessary.
In short, the plans to include a station at Woolwich have always depended on contributions from the developers who stand to benefit most from it. That was the case when the last Government took the decision to add the station to the Crossrail Act, and it remains the case under the new Government. It is abundantly clear that the debt crisis left by Labour has placed intense pressure on the public finances, so we cannot default to a position where a shortfall in the promised private sector funding for the station simply pushes up the costs for the taxpayer.