Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Norman Baker(10 years, 7 months ago)
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Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)
Three years on from the axing of Cycling England and its £60 million annual budget, this Tory-led Government promised £148 million for cycling. That has turned out to be an average of £38 million per year until 2016, with local authorities expected to find the rest. In comparison, £28 billion is planned to be spent on roads. Does the Minister really believe that this is the right proportion and that this Government really are the most pro-cycling ever?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)
We are the most pro-cycling Government ever. If the hon. Lady does not believe that, she should look at some of the comments from the cycling groups, who have warmly welcomed the huge investment—the record investment—that has taken place under this Government. That is a real step change in cycling, and I would have thought that she welcomed it rather than criticise it.
Plug-in Vehicles
Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Norman Baker(11 years ago)
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Norman Baker
I am happy to provide my hon. Friend with details about that. We are in regular contact with manufacturers in the country to encourage them to pursue that matter further. In respect of that particular manufacturer, I will exercise my brain cells to find out whether anything comes to me during this part of the debate, to enable him to have a fuller answer.
It was suggested that these are merely second cars for rich people, but that is not so. Some 73% of the so-called second cars have taken up the grant for business use, so business is embracing low-carbon cars. That is the predominant purchasing market at present.
We are in the process of updating the “Making the connection” infrastructure strategy and looking to restate the rationale for policy in this area, and this debate helps, as does the Committee’s thoughtful report. As this strategy develops, I will be limited in what I can say about what it will contain. However, we are aiming to publish it in early summer and hope to be able to provide an in-depth analysis of our programmes to date and use this, and robust evidence from other key stakeholders, to set out a pathway to the mass adoption of ULEVs in the UK.
We are currently talking—we always do; it will not be a surprise—to automotive manufacturers, infrastructure providers and energy providers, because there is an issue about the grid. We are also talking to our colleagues at the Department of Energy and Climate Change, trade associations representing the motorcycle sector, other Departments, and so on. That is not an exhaustive list, but I hope it gives hon. Members confidence that we are engaging cross-departmentally and across industry, with all relevant parties, to ensure that we are getting the best possible future for ULEVs.
I think we are getting the policy right. The start of Nissan Leaf production in Sunderland is proof of this. Of course, it is not just that. The BMW 8 engine is to be produced in the UK; the batteries are now being produced, helped by the significant investment in research and development, which the Government has brought forward.
We have the potential to achieve—I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire—and we must be ambitious for Britain in this area. We must ensure that we become the focal point for the development of ULEVs. We are on the way to doing that, certainly as far as the European dimension is concerned, by getting in early, with clear direction from Government. Industry has said to the Government that it welcomes the clear, direct steer from us, giving long-term certainty about the direction of travel. To be fair to the Opposition, all three parties have embraced this agenda, giving certainty to industry beyond particular Parliaments. It is important that that stays as it is. We want more auto manufacturers.
Another point about the number of vehicles sold is that there is a limited number of vehicles on the market at the moment. That will change rapidly, with a new range of vehicles coming along shortly, giving far more choice to the consumer and the business user as to which vehicle they purchase for their particular needs. That, as much as anything else, will lead to an upturn in sales.
I will now try to answer questions asked by hon. Members. The national charge point registry was mentioned by the Committee Chair in her opening contribution. It is a requirement under both plugged-in places and the new national grant scheme that all publicly accessible charge points funded by the Government must be registered with the national charge point registry. Good progress has been made in adding data to the NCR. There are currently 3,085 points on the register.
Yvonne Fovargue
Would it be a good idea to inform the people who run the websites of the availability and where the charge points are? When I researched—I presume my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside went to the same website—no charge points were listed in Manchester, apart from one that was a private charge point owned by the Citroën garage.
Norman Baker
I am surprised to hear the hon. Lady say that. We will certainly look into that, because we want to ensure that as much information is available as possible. We will take that point on board and see whether it is correct. If it is, we will draw it to the attention of those who can help correct it. The information needs to be available to the public at large.
I have mentioned Nissan’s production. The Chair of the Select Committee mentioned local authorities. I hope that she has seen the announcement by the Secretary of State, which was issued subsequent to her Committee’s report being finalised, but which does mention help for local authorities, including an £11 million fund to help install on-street charging for residents who have, or have ordered, a plug-in vehicle but do not have off-street parking. Authorities can apply for 75% of the costs of installing a charge point. That is a pretty generous contribution. It should not be too high, because if it were 100%, people would ask for charge points without any intention of using them. There has to be a buy-in on both sides and 75% is about right for the contribution made.
It was suggested that £11 million would not go far enough. Let us see what the response from local authorities is. If we are overwhelmed by local authorities that respond positively, we will reconsider within the spending envelope for the budget covering this area. However, I think that that is a pretty reasonable start. It goes along with the £13.5 million for home owners—a 75% grant for them, as well—to have a domestic charge point installed, and the £9 million to fund the installation of charge points at railway stations. That is a useful initiative, because it enables people to get to the station in the morning—it encourages them to use the train, by the way, which is also lower carbon—and charge the car during the day. It need not be a rapid charge, either. They can then have confidence that, when they come back in the evening, the car is ready to drive home, fully charged. That is a good initiative and I look forward to train companies taking us up on that generous offer.
We are allocating £3 million to support the installation of charge points on the Government and wider public estate to ensure that we are doing what we can, as a Government, to lead the way on this matter and to send a clear signal that this is right for us and right for the public at large, and all those who would be interested in running vehicles in future. I hope that addresses the point on the public sector raised by the Chair of the Select Committee.
The hon. Lady also mentioned the TEN-T rapid charge bid, which we have supported. She also referred to the impact on the grid, and our view is that, if demand for electricity is properly managed with the use of smart meters and dynamic tariffs, the grid can support a relatively high number of plug-in vehicles without the need to build extra power stations. In fact, electric vehicles may also provide a way to capture and store electricity produced at night from renewable sources such as wind power, so they could actually help the electricity mix. Clearly, those are matters in which DECC is interested, and it is considering them in conjunction with the Department for Transport. As she would expect, Departments are working together on that.
On taxation policy, the hon. Lady was kind enough to refer to the recent change introduced by the Chancellor in his Budget, which is a welcome step and gives long-term confidence. In fact, it is a clear example of the Government responding to business: businesses said what they want, and the Government listened and delivered what they asked for. That will give confidence to manufacturers and purchasers of such vehicles in the years ahead.
The hon. Lady and my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South asked about quiet vehicles. There is an issue with whether visually impaired people are more at risk if they cannot hear particular vehicles. I am advised that, above 20 mph or so, the tyre noise is sufficient for them to identify that a vehicle is moving, but there is an issue with low-speed vehicles. The European Union is debating whether there should be a mandatory requirement for a noise to be added. I am not sure whether my colleagues in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs would appreciate an Aston Martin noise being added to a small vehicle, but there is a decision to be taken on whether adding a noise should be mandatory or simply voluntary. Those discussions are ongoing. There are also ongoing international discussions on whether that should be addressed internationally. Clearly, an international solution would generally be a good thing.
My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire correctly identified that, if these electric vehicles are rolled out, they could lower the cost of motoring, as well as making motoring cleaner environmentally. He also asked one question that he said I had to answer, which was on when it will be economically rational to buy an electric vehicle. I am afraid that I do not have a date in mind, and it would be rather foolish of me to give him a date. What I can say is that it depends on a whole range of factors, including the oil price, the take-up of fleet buyers and everything else, but I am quite clear that I share his view. At some point in the not too distant future it will become more sensible economically, apart from anything else, to purchase an electric vehicle rather than a traditional petrol-driven vehicle. I hope those days are not too far away.
I welcome the interesting suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South that cars might be available for hire, which would take away some of the uncertainty that people have, and it may fit in with people’s lifestyles to be able to do that for short journeys in particular circumstances. We are, I think, already working on something similar with car clubs so that they can partner local authorities and train operators in funding such possibilities.
Concern was raised about the possibility of electric vehicles running out and leaving people stranded, which I accept is a genuine concern for consumers. It is worth pointing out that such vehicles have a range of 100 miles, or less if the air conditioning is on, for example. In the UK, 99% of journeys are 100 miles or less, so the chance of someone thrashing their car and running out somewhere is, helpfully, quite remote. As battery technology improves, that will become even less of a risk.
Finally, I hope the hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) will forgive me for saying this, but her contributions since being appointed Opposition spokesman have tended to be formed of two things: how the previous Government got everything right, and how all the things we are doing are wrong. Having spent 13 years in opposition, and perhaps having more experience of making such speeches, I would say that sometimes giving the Government credit for what it is doing means that the Government listens more when it is told that it is getting something wrong.
I think I have answered most of the hon. Lady’s points. Lots more cars are coming onto the market. She says that the grant has not had the effect it should have had. Yes, it has, and it will have more effect when we have more cars and more choice for consumers, as we will very shortly. I agree that we need to invest in British industry, which is what we are doing. The Government is on track and has a good record on electric vehicles, which in due course will be good for the economy and the environment.
Bus Services (Yorkshire and Humber)
Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Norman Baker(11 years ago)
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Norman Baker
I do not accept that. I repeat my earlier point: the hon. Lady’s Government had 13 years to reintroduce whatever it wanted, and did not do so, despite some cajoling from my colleagues and me at the time. However, the fact of the matter is that quality contracts remain on the statute book. The 2008 Act has not been changed in any shape or form. What we have done is to reintroduce further incentives for partnership working, which we think is right. After all, partnership working is the key to success. It is unlikely that we will see more people on buses in a local area if either the local authority or the transport operators are being difficult, so their working together is an essential prerequisite.
It is not true to say, as the hon. Lady claims, that there is a penalty for developing quality contracts. The quality contract regime has not changed at all. What we have is a reward for partnership working, which is an entirely different proposition. It is not true to say, as the hon. Member for Leeds North East has said, that BBAs and quality contracts are mutually exclusive; they are not, and I have just read out the relevant piece of the guidance that demonstrates that to be the case.
The hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) talked about cuts in a way that made me feel that Armageddon had arrived. This is the fact of the matter: the overall bus mileage in England fell by just 1% between 2010-11 and 2011-12. I regret any fall in bus mileage, but 1% is not Armageddon. She might also want to know that, in 2011-12, there were 4.7 billion bus journeys in England, which is the highest figure since deregulation in 1986. Therefore, the suggestion that the bus industry is on its knees is perhaps not borne out by the statistics.
The hon. Member for Makerfield complained about the cut in bus service operators grant. I have to say again that, while I regret any cut in support for the bus industry, the fact of the matter is that we ensured that there was a soft landing by giving the bus industry around 18 months’ notice of the 20% cut. At the time—it is on the record—the industry said that it would be able to accommodate that because it had been given sufficient notice. That is in stark contrast to the lack of notice given by the Welsh Assembly Government, run by her party, which gave virtually no notice at all of changes to BSOG for operators in Wales.
The hon. Lady also complained about the profits of bus companies. As we are in a 1980s mood today in many shapes and forms, let me say that I detected a return to 1980s Labour-style theology, where profit is a dirty word and has to be removed from bus companies. That appeared to be the substance of what she was saying.
Yvonne Fovargue
In no way did I imply that profit is a dirty word. I merely said that some of the profit should be invested for the good of the passenger, to keep them as passengers in the future.
Norman Baker
The point the hon. Lady misses is this: it is in the interests of the bus companies themselves to invest for the future to generate more passenger traffic by having newer buses and a better service. That is indeed what they are doing. For example, the average age of the bus in this country is declining. We are seeing massive new investment in buses, not least of all through the Government’s green bus fund. The way to get more passengers is to provide the service that people want. Everybody in the bus industry understands that and they do it really quite well, as the figures on mileage and the number of bus journeys demonstrate very adequately.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Norman Baker(11 years, 2 months ago)
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Norman Baker
Running a company well is a way of helping bus passengers. If a company does not look after its passengers, its services will suffer as a consequence, so I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s premise. Brian Souter has contributed a great deal to the development of bus services in this country, and that fact should be widely recognised by all. The hon. Gentleman should also recognise that legislation is on the statute book, and that Brian Souter is subject to that legislation, as is everybody else in this country.
Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)
With bus fares rising at twice the rate of inflation, why have the Government rigged the rules for the better bus area funding against transport authorities that adopt a quality contract, so that they can set bus fares, as has happened in London? Instead of always caving in to the private bus companies, why does the Minister not stand up for passengers for once?
Norman Baker
Again, I do not accept the premise of the question. The Department for Transport has been championing the needs of bus passengers very firmly since this Government took office. We have introduced a whole range of new funding streams, as well as better bus areas, money for the smart card roll-out and the fourth round of the green bus fund. We have also made huge investments in bus corridors in Manchester, Bristol and elsewhere. This is all designed to help passengers, so I am afraid that the hon. Lady’s premise is simply wrong. In regard to better bus areas and quality contracts, I advise her to study the guidance that I issued earlier this week.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Norman Baker(11 years, 3 months ago)
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Norman Baker
I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and I agree with her point. We have given two tranches of £10 million to aid community transport across England. We have also funded wheels to work schemes under the local sustainable transport fund, and will continue to do so.
Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)
The Government’s own figures show bus fares rising by double the rate of inflation, and many passengers face even higher increases; the Arriva Midlands annual saver ticket has increased by 20% this year. When will the Minister accept that his Government’s decision to cut local transport funding by 28% and to cut direct support for bus services by a fifth has increased the financial pressure on households who are already struggling to make ends meet?
Norman Baker
I welcome the hon. Lady to the Front Bench. She may not be aware that this is not a new phenomenon. In 2009, the retail prices index fell by 0.4% and bus fares increased by 8.6%—far more than they have risen this year. Steps are being taken to cut bus fares, and the hon. Lady may be interested to know that fares are being cut by First Bus in both Sheffield and Manchester.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Yvonne Fovargue and Norman Baker(12 years, 2 months ago)
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Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)
8. What recent assessment she has made of the effect of changes in funding for local bus services on staying-on rates in education for 16 and 17-year-olds.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)
I have made no specific assessment. It is for local decision makers to assess the impact of their decisions, consulting with their communities. Local authorities are required to include arrangements for transport provision and charges for 16 to 19-year-olds in full-time education in local transport policies. The Department for Education is also providing a £180 million bursary fund to support 16 to 19-year-olds who are experiencing real financial barriers to participating in education.
Yvonne Fovargue
Abby Hilton, a young constituent of mine, came to me last week and told of me her concern that her younger sister cannot follow in her footsteps to Winstanley college due to the rise in bus fares and the loss of education maintenance allowance. What assessment has been done of the cumulative impact of those two policies?
Norman Baker
I have been in regular contact with my colleagues at the Department for Education and the Confederation of Passenger Transport for some months now. Local members of the Youth Parliament in East Sussex have been to make a presentation to the Bus Partnership Forum, which I chair, and I have indicated to the CPT the need to work with the Department to address the issue.