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Diana R. Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Weir. I congratulate the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) on securing today’s debate. From my reading in preparation for the debate, I know that this is an issue that he has taken up over many years during his time in Parliament and that he is a very committed campaigner for health funding for his local area and the wider area of Cornwall. I welcome the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), to his role and wish him well in his new position.
It has been very interesting to hear the contributions of the two Members who have also spoken in the debate today, the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) and my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright). As my hon. Friend said, I want to congratulate the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth on her maiden speech, if that is how it is going to be seen. Like the hon. Member for St Ives, she is making a very strong case for her constituents and ensuring that there is an advocate for them in this House who stands up for the real health funding that is required for people in her constituency.
It was also very interesting to hear what the hon. Member for St Ives said about some of the different criteria that have been used to allocate funding and about some of the tensions that exist when one looks at some of those criteria. I hope that I shall have an opportunity to say a few words about those tensions shortly.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool made some very pertinent points about the need to get to the target for health funding for primary care trusts. I noted that he said that his constituency was 4.3% below the funding target. As a result, I had a quick look to see where my primary care trust was in terms of being on target. It is actually 6% below target, so we are just above the group of PCTs that the hon. Member for St Ives referred to, which are 6.2% below the funding target.
It was also very pertinent to raise the issue of access to health services, and of course there is a funding implication to that issue. If we want to have services out in the community, there is a need to look at how funding is allocated and at the issues related to health inequalities. It is not acceptable that there are still parts of this country where the mortality rates show that men in particular will live for fewer years than men born in the south of England. I know that in the north there are real concerns about that issue.
Very importantly, there is also the issue of hospitals and capital funding. I know that that is mainly about PCTs’ revenue funding, but we need to keep an eye on what happens to capital funding. Of course, the hospital at Hartlepool that my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool mentioned has been in the planning for a very long time and there has been a huge investment in it, through the PCT and other people and other organisations in that area ensuring that it was really going to deliver for local people.
Therefore, I am particularly concerned about the cancellation of that hospital, especially in the light of the reassurances that were given by the new coalition Government that the cuts that they would make this year would not to be to front-line services and that, as I understood it, they would protect hospital builds. So it would be very helpful if the Minister could say a little more about his view of how the cancellation of the Hartlepool hospital fits in with the agreement not to cancel front-line services.
The main thrust of the debate is the funding of health services in Cornwall, and I have looked with interest at what the hon. Member for St Ives has said about it previously. Today I also had a quick look at his website, where he trails the debate and says that he is looking to secure an additional £56 million of funding for his area. He also says:
“The Conservatives created a system of endemic underfunding. Now they are in Coalition they can put this right.”
The press cuttings prepared by the Library for the debate also include an article from The West Briton of 10 May, in which he says:
“The coalition is already starting to deliver many outcomes which Cornwall has craved.”
I admire his positive view of what the new Government will deliver for him and his constituents and I very much hope that he is correct.
What the coalition Government have said so far about the NHS is quite limited. Section 22 of the coalition agreement sets out their priorities for the NHS, and the first bullet point says:
“We will guarantee that health spending increases in real terms in each year of the Parliament”.
Paragraph 21 of the revision to the operating framework for the NHS in England for 2010-11, which was published just yesterday, reiterates that commitment, and I have just heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer make it clear in the Budget debate on the Floor of the House that the commitment remains.
Of course, that is just the headline, and we do not actually know what it will mean for services in the NHS in England in the coming years. Obviously, the Minister will be working hard on the comprehensive spending review over the summer months. He will be looking at how he can make sure that his Department secures all the resources that it needs to ensure that the view of the hon. Member for St Ives that he will get his £56 million comes to fruition. The written reply to a question that the hon. Gentleman tabled to the Minister contained a commitment just to increase spending
“in real terms in each year of the Parliament.”—[Official Report, 7 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 47W.]
We really need to have the detail. I accept that it is very early days for the Minister, who has been in office a few weeks, and that the coalition Government are still trying to sort out their policies on NHS funding.
The hon. Member for St Ives made a clear and effective case for raising the funding for his constituency and primary care trust. There have been many written questions and debates on the issue, and I pay tribute to everybody who has been involved in the campaign to get additional resources into the primary care trust and into Cornwall. I also pay tribute to the staff, who are working hard day in, day out with the resources that they have.
Funding is obviously a key issue. The hon. Gentleman has given us quite a detailed canter through the historic reasons why we are where we are on funding, which was very interesting, but many of the views about why there is underfunding in certain constituencies and areas point to the 1970s as the time when allocations perhaps did not work in quite the way that they should have. That is the view that comes out of the debates and explanations about the current funding criteria.
At this point, it is worth reflecting on how the NHS has changed over the years. Patients now want access to high-tech, specialist services with the best nursing and clinical advice. There is also a tension around the fact that people want services much closer to home—in their local GP surgeries or at home if at all possible.
The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Burns)
I was just reflecting on what the hon. Lady said before she got to this section of her speech. I must gently remind her that her party was in power for 13 years and introduced the funding formula that the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) is complaining about. Having put that on the record, I beg to ask why the last Labour Government did nothing in those 13 years to remove the problem facing Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly.
Diana R. Johnson
I am grateful that the Minister intervened on me, because I am coming to that. I recognise, as the hon. Member for St Ives probably does, that where we are today might not be perfect, but the previous Labour Government made huge strides in terms of putting money into his area and others that were underfunded. The statistics show that there have been significant improvements since 2003-04, when some PCTs were 22% below target; now the figure is 6.2%, so there has been movement. I am not saying that everything done under the Labour Government was done as fully as we would have liked, but it would be interesting to hear what plans the Minister has to target the pace of change and how soon he feels we will reach the target level for all PCTs. We have to recognise, as I am sure the hon. Member for St Ives does, that taking money from other areas of the country in one fell swoop is not the best way to have a stable national health service.
Diana R. Johnson
We can probably agree that history is history. We are where we are today, and we need to make sure that we move forward as quickly as possible to get to the point that we all want to be at—an NHS that is funded fairly across England and that addresses some of the issues that the hon. Gentleman raised about rural constituencies and rural areas.
I want to address the rural nature of the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, the primary care trust and the patients that it serves. The issue of islands and peninsulas is also quite unusual, and few primary care trusts have to deal with it, so there needs to be some recognition of that. Clearly, the influx of people during the summer months must swell the demands on the national health service; all that must be recognised and factored in. There is also the issue of poverty. There can be pockets of poverty in rural areas; they are not just in urban areas, although we recognise that there might be different solutions to poverty in different parts of the country.
Let me reiterate that 80% of NHS spending is at primary care trust level, which means that the best solutions for an area can be put forward, debated and agreed at that level. I want to remove the myth that seems to exist that everyone is being told that certain areas have to do things in a certain way. That is wrong. Primary care trusts have much more capacity to design local services to meet their area’s needs. I understand that the new coalition Government will introduce directly elected representatives into primary care trusts to increase the level of local involvement and accountability. I hope that I have that correct, because the Minister is looking at me as if I do not.
Diana R. Johnson
I just wanted to make sure, because that was not a Conservative manifesto policy. As I understand it, such engagement and increased accountability in the NHS was one of the Liberal Democrat policies; but it is part of the coalition agreement.
Diana R. Johnson
I am delighted to hear it.
I now want to move on to the matter of health spending. I recognise that the hon. Member for St Ives would like more money for his constituency, but I think he recognises that since 1997 the relevant spending on St. Ives, and on Cornwall, has increased. This year the allocation for all PCTs is £164 billion. As I said, 80% of the entire NHS budget is now in the hands of PCTs—the highest proportion ever. That means that local decision making is possible. The PCT for Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly is this year receiving £856.2 million and its budget has increased by 12.4%, but we recognise that it is still 6.2% away from the target.
I am grateful that the hon. Member for St Ives has recognised the work of the independent Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation, which is made up of GPs, academics and health service managers, to develop a new funding formula to determine each PCT’s allocation. That has built on previous formulae to meet the objectives of providing equal access for equal need, and a reduction in health inequalities. Of course, a huge debate has raged about the tensions between the criteria used for allocating resources. For instance, there has been a debate about age versus deprivation, and the Conservative party in opposition would often argue that it was not deprivation but age that should be given more weight. The Conservatives also criticised the weighting of health inequalities in trying to remove those inequalities.
I hope that we now recognise that a series of criteria must be considered. Since last year a new formula has been introduced. We can clearly see how far the PCTs’ actual allocation is from their target allocation. The previous Government’s commitment was to move towards the target, while recognising that that would have to be done over a period of time, ensuring that it did not cause major problems to the smooth running of the NHS throughout the country.
When I looked again at the figures I found that the PCT that was the furthest over its target was Richmond and Twickenham; it was 23.4% over the target. I thought that it would make an interesting example to consider, as the relevant MPs are the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, who is a member of the Liberal Democrats, and the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith), who is a member of the Conservative party. I can just imagine the tension and debate in that case about chopping the funding allocation for that PCT. Perhaps it would add some strains to the tensions within the coalition.
The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Burns)
I congratulate my colleague, the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George), on securing this debate on NHS funding allocations. I also congratulate the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana R. Johnson), on her appointment to the Health Front Bench. In Government she was a Minister with other responsibilities, and a Whip, and I assure her that she will find serving as a shadow Health Minister tremendously rewarding, because of the important role of such matters in our lives and those of our constituents. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on her almost but not quite maiden speech.
I pay tribute to the NHS in Cornwall, which provides an excellent level of care to the constituents of my hon. Friend and those of my honourable colleague; he has long campaigned on how best to distribute resources and has argued that PCTs should be moved to their target allocations. Before I respond in detail to his points, perhaps I might set out the general principles of the system of funding allocation; that may help the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North.
The Government believe in an NHS that is free to all, irrespective of need or ability to pay; in which professionals are freed from the shackles of centralised targets and empowered to take responsibility for their patients; where better access to services is matched by improved quality and greater efficiency; and which provides value for money and health outcomes that are second to none. That is our vision for the national health service, and the coalition’s programme for government sets out how we will achieve it.
First, the Government will increase spending on the NHS in real terms for each year of this Parliament, as the shadow Minister acknowledged. It is a commitment that reflects a deeper belief: that the NHS must be protected and properly resourced to continue its vital work. We must focus our resources where they are needed most. That means stopping the flow of resources from the front line to the back office, giving front-line staff the responsibility and resources to improve outcomes for patients, and entrusting local professionals—and local people—with the means to improve local health. By committing to cut the costs of health bureaucracy by a third, we will release resources that can be reinvested in front-line services; by giving GPs the power to commission services based on need, we will push decisions about health care provision close to patients; and by giving local communities more responsibility for public health, we will create a more flexible national health system—one that is responsive to local demand for health services, and is able to react to changing health needs and to direct funds towards emerging priorities.
Secondly, we will establish an independent NHS board to allocate resources and provide commissioning guidelines. The board will ensure access to health services that are designed around the needs of the patient, not the needs of the bureaucracy. It will set standards based on clinical evidence, not political micro-management. The aim is to achieve the best outcomes for patients, instead of simply ticking boxes and meeting targets.
Mr Iain Wright
I congratulate the Minister on securing his post. I know that he is passionate about health, and I wish him all the best as a Minister in the Department of Health. He mentioned the establishment of an independent NHS board whose focus will be on clinical standards as opposed to political micro-management. Bearing in mind health services north of the Tees, a clinically led, independent reconfiguration panel recommended that a new hospital should be built. Is that not something that the Government should be doing?
Mr Burns
I have to congratulate the hon. Gentleman. I remember that as a Minister he was extremely helpful, within the confines and straitjacket of his remit. He was tenacious both in that job and this afternoon, and is using his skills to try to tease out an answer beyond the one that was given to him in my letter to him last Thursday explaining why that capital project was cancelled as part of the public spending review. However, to be helpful, and if he would like it, I will repeat basically what the letter said. Facts are facts, and I am afraid that the situation has not changed since I wrote to him.
When this Government came into power in May, we were faced with the largest deficit and debt that any Government had ever inherited from an outgoing Government. The debt is a financial problem that must be addressed urgently. Therefore, the incoming Government announced a review of spending commitments that were made by the previous Government after 1 January 2010—that is, in the run-up to the general election. As a result of the review, which has been carried out over the past seven weeks or so, an announcement was made on 17 June in which the coalition Government announced the go-ahead of four major hospital programmes, ranging from the Pennines to Liverpool and to St Helier in south-west London. Unfortunately, the North Tees and Hartlepool project did not get permission to go ahead. I am afraid that that is the answer. It is because of the economic situation and debt in which we find ourselves.
Mr Wright
The Minister is gracious in giving way a second time. On that basis, and given what the Prime Minister said about NHS funding increasing in real terms despite the financial problems that we find ourselves in, capital spends will be provided elsewhere in the country, but seemingly not in my constituency. Are my constituents’ health outcomes not to be thought of because of financial considerations?
Mr Burns
The hon. Gentleman knows the answer to that question. That is not why the hospital was not given the go-ahead last week. I can appreciate his frustration. As a constituency MP myself, I too would be frustrated, but the hon. Gentleman, who is a generous man, must not try to reinterpret the decision for other reasons. Sadly, the decision was taken simply because of the urgent need of this Government to take decisions to start curbing the ballooning debt problem, which needs to be addressed. That is the reason, I am afraid. It has nothing to do with our commitment to reducing health inequalities and spending more money on providing health care and services for people throughout the country.
I hope that the hon. Gentleman is satisfied with that. If he is not, and if it would be of any help to him, I would be more than happy to meet with him and, if he wants to bring them along, his colleagues from the Hartlepool area and the surrounding constituencies. They can discuss the matter with me—my door is always open. I would be more than happy to do that, if we can arrange a meeting, and if he thinks that it would be helpful.
Let me return to Cornwall and the general position on health funding allocations. I was saying, before discussing Hartlepool again, that we will establish an independent NHS board.
Andrew George
On that point, I would be grateful if the Minister would clarify whether the board will replace the Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation.
Mr Burns
I can reassure my hon. colleague that it will not. It will be something completely different. It will be a stand-alone body that will be the driving engine of the NHS, in its required field.
By strengthening the link between investment and outcomes, the board will enable the NHS to deliver improved quality, higher productivity and better value for money. I am sure that my hon. colleague will appreciate that I cannot yet discuss the precise functions of the board, nor its composition, but our proposals underline our central belief that resources should be allocated according to need, without ministerial interference.
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
Perhaps the Minister can touch on another hospital situation. I understand that the Secretary of State visited Bury on Friday and overrode a clinically reached decision on maternity units. He said that, in his judgment, Fairfield General hospital’s maternity unit could remain open, against a clinical decision made in the “Making things better” reorganisation in Greater Manchester.
Mr Burns
I hope that the hon. Lady is aware of the announcement that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made shortly after he assumed his current position, in which he laid down new criteria for determining the reconfiguration of hospital services. Prior to the general election, when he was the shadow Secretary of State for Health, he made it a priority that, in particular, maternity units and accident and emergency units would be looked at far more closely than they had been looked at. That is why, on assuming office, he strengthened the criteria for carrying out consultations on proposed reconfigurations, and brought in four new criteria that will apply to any future reconfigurations, and current ones that are still in the process. They will have to abide by the new strengthened criteria, which include ensuring that the wishes and views of GPs, clinicians, local stakeholders and the general public are taken into account. Decisions that affect local communities and people will have the input of local people, rather than simply being imposed on communities which, for a variety of reasons, do not want what is being proposed.
Barbara Keeley
Those of us in Greater Manchester who are affected by the decision and the new process that the Minister is outlining are struggling to understand how to square the clinicians’ recommendation, which was based on things such as the number of doctors available, doctor training and the experience that has to be gained in maternity to deliver a safe service—a clinically led decision was made in that case—and the community’s wish and desire always to keep maternity and A and E units. It is hard for local people to understand how such things can be squared. Most constituency MPs understand that no one ever wants to lose an A and E or maternity unit. Does that really mean that clinically led decisions, such as those in Hartlepool and Manchester, will be overridden if local people do not want them?
Mr Burns
No, it does not mean that. What I said when explaining the criteria that the Secretary of State has laid down is that it will strengthen the consultation process leading to decisions, but obviously there will be a number of processes thereafter. The different processes of assimilation before a final decision must ensure that the Secretary of State’s criteria for greater input of clinicians’, GPs’ and local communities’ wishes are taken into account. In the past, reconfigurations have too often left the impression among local communities that they have not been consulted or listened to, and that decisions have been made by managers or others based only on their narrow point of view without taking account of other people’s views.
Mr Burns
No. I have been generous, and I want to make progress.
That is the principle for the criteria, but it will not mean automatically that there will never be any changes because there is a block. We are strengthening the process to take account of local wishes and needs. There is a balance to be struck, which will emerge during the reconfiguration process.
Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)
Is my hon. Friend aware that we have a unique arrangement for health, and that a single organisation is responsible for both commissioning and delivery—the local hospital? That works for the Isle of Wight, and it has turned round a deficit of £3 million and broken even in the past three years. Can he assure me that the forthcoming White Paper will allow the success of the island’s health services to continue?
Mr Burns
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. I assure him that the White Paper will be aimed completely at improving and enhancing the provision of health care throughout the country—not just on the Isle of Wight, but on the mainland from Cornwall and the south-west up to Hadrian’s wall in the north. That will be based on a principle of putting patients first and at the heart of health care provision so that they drive the national health service and so that it is there for them and their needs, rather than the needs of management bureaucracy or of politicians micro-managing the system from Whitehall down the road. However much affection and respect I have for my hon. Friend, I cannot be tempted to outline in detail now the White Paper’s contents, but I assure him that when it is published he will share my enthusiasm for the way in which the Secretary of State will unveil his vision for the national health service, not simply for the next five years, but thereafter. I trust that that satisfies my hon. Friend, if not the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley).
My honourable colleague the Member for St Ives mentioned the current pace of change, and particularly the distance from target measurements used to assess relative progress towards target allocations. His constituency is in Cornwall and Isles of Scilly primary care trust. It received an allocation of £808 million in 2009-10, which increased to £856 million in 2010-11—an increase, as he knows, of 12.4% above the national average of 11.3%. However, under the formula established by the previous Government, and as many contributors to the debate have noted, that is still 6.2% or some £56.3 million below its target allocation for 2010-11.
I hope that my honourable colleague will appreciate that until the spending review is complete, I cannot comment on specific time scales or the future plans for NHS allocations, nor on the financial standing of specific local health services. I trust that he will be reassured that his partners in Government share a common assessment of both the problems facing the NHS and the solutions available to us.
During the spending review, we will examine rigorously all areas of health spending to identify where we can make savings—for example, by maximising the NHS’s buying power, renegotiating contracts and improving financial accountability throughout the system. The picture that I have painted is of an NHS in which decisions on resource allocation centrally are made by an independent NHS board. But although I cannot give the hon. Member for St Ives the commitment and promise that he wants now, the matter will be examined as part of the spending review between now and the autumn. When our reforms become reality, the NHS board will be responsible for the allocation of spending and will consider a whole range of areas.
Andrew George
I want to raise a point for clarification. The Minister described the role of the NHS board and made it clear that it will be remote from political micro-management. He also said that he cannot give me or the PCTs that are a long way below their targets any answer until after the spending review. Will the decision on the pace of change towards achieving targets be made by the spending review, or will that decision be made ultimately by the independent NHS board? If he cannot say which of the two, or which combination of the two, when will I and other hon. Members receive a clear answer on what will happen and who will make the decision on the speed of change?
Mr Burns
I believe that I can help my honourable colleague. The ultimate decisions will be made by the NHS board when it is established, but he will appreciate that primary legislation will be required and that that will take time. In the meantime, the allocation of funding for health care throughout the country will be done initially following the spending review, but when the board is established on a statutory basis and operating, it will take over that function. I hope that has cleared up the matter for my honourable colleague.
Diana R. Johnson
I am wondering about the time scale for the board’s establishment. When will the Minister be in a position to provide some dates for when it will come into existence?
Mr Burns
That is a reasonable question, and I shall be reasonable in my response. The date will be determined partly by Parliament because primary legislation will be required, as outlined in the Queen’s Speech last month. Speaking as an ex-Whip rather than a Minister for Health, I anticipate that the legislation will make progress through Parliament this Session and receive Royal Assent in July next year, or perhaps September, depending on whether there is a spillover in September or October next year, which I do not know at the moment. That is my guess as an ex-Whip for the timetable for the primary legislation. We will then have to wait to see at what point after that it will be up and running, but my guess is that it will be as soon as is feasible.
Andrew George
Given the state of flux and the uncertainty of the spending review, which will be followed by the creation of the independent NHS board, there will be a vacuum because decisions have yet to be made in this two-stage process. Will the Minister agree to meet colleagues from Cornwall and me to discuss the progress of that review, either at the time of the review itself or immediately afterwards? We would find that very helpful, because we know that the NHS budget in Cornwall is under tremendous pressure at the moment.
Mr Burns
I reassure my honourable colleague that there is not a state of flux. There is a state of potential change, yes, because there is a new Government with an important vision for the future of the health service. That is a difference, but there is not a state of flux because there is stability there. I am not criticising him, but I wanted to reassure him, so that he did not get the impression that there was a state of flux, with the connotations that that has. There is no state of flux. We have a vision, which will be unveiled shortly, but we have things in place to make sure that the system is running properly.
The other thing I would like to repeat—it is so important that it does not matter if it is repeated again, because the issue has featured frequently during today’s debate—is that the Department of Health budget is, of course, protected, which means that in every year of this Parliament, it will increase in real terms. There will be pressures on the Department of Health budget but, under the coalition agreement and the commitment that my party gave prior to the general election, which has been upheld by the coalition agreement, there will be a real-terms increase in that budget. That gives a degree of stability to the health service because it knows that, in every year of this Parliament, it will receive that money.
I thank my honourable colleague for his earnest and informed contribution to today’s debate. As a constituency MP myself, I respect and appreciate the tremendous battle that he has fought over a number of years for Cornwall. I am thrilled to see that my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth is also joining in fighting for her constituents to ensure that they, too, get the best health care possible. That is something that all hon. Members want and fight for on behalf of their constituents.
At its most basic level, allocation is a question of measuring need and distributing resources accordingly. To the outsider—and some insiders—funding allocation is a dense and sometimes opaque subject. As the former health editor of The Times wrote,
“only the brave or foolhardy venture into some areas of NHS management. Resource allocation is certainly one”.
I can safely say that my honourable colleague falls into the former category. I trust that he is reassured that although it is too early to comment on specific funding allocations, the coalition’s programme for government shows that we share the same basic belief in the importance of both independence and local decision making when it comes to setting funding levels for the NHS.
Mr Mike Weir (in the Chair)
As the Minister is not present for the next debate, I suspend the sitting until 4 pm.