Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with other European Union Governments about the role of private credit rating agencies.
The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)
My Lords, the Government have discussed the role of private credit rating agencies with other European Union Governments in numerous meetings. These include the Financial Services Committee, the Economic and Financial Committee and ECOFIN, attended by Economics and Finance Ministers. The Government have also discussed this issue in depth with your Lordships’ EU Sub-Committee on Economic and Financial Affairs, and International Trade during its recent inquiry on sovereign ratings.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for a full reply, but does he recall that these credit rating agencies actually promoted the sub-prime mortgages which precipitated the crisis? They have been accused of a conflict of interest as they vary the ratings of both banks and countries, which exacerbates the crisis and can advantage the owners of these agencies? I asked in a previous Question whether the Minister would consider promoting an intergovernmental agency to take on this role. If he is not prepared to do that for ideological reasons, will he, with his EU colleagues, at least ask the competition authorities within the European Union to see what they can do to curb the excesses of this cartel and break up what has become an insidious oligopoly?
Lord Sassoon
My Lords, there are quite a number of points wrapped up in that question. The first point to recognise is that the credit rating agencies plainly got it wrong when it came to the structured products which were at the heart of the financial crisis. On the other hand, their record in other respects during the financial crisis, and particularly the sovereign debt crisis, has been reasonably good, and all the evidence shows that. Having said that, I completely agree with the noble Lord that competition is very much what the Government would like to see, but the way to introduce competition is absolutely not to have any publicly funded or publicly sponsored credit rating agency. Indeed, Mr Barroso himself recognised this recently by opposing any suggestion of a European publicly funded agency. I agree with the noble Lord that we want to see competition, but not through setting up a government sponsored agency.
Lord Bilimoria
My Lords, to follow on from the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, surely the Minister agrees that these credit rating agencies were instrumental in causing the credit crunch and financial crisis by rating what ended up being worse than junk bond instruments as triple-A? They were allowed to get away with being funded by the people they were reporting on. Is there moral hazard with the banks? This is moral hypocrisy. Is enough being done to address it?
Lord Sassoon
My Lords, I have already said that the credit rating agencies got it completely wrong when it came to the rating of structured products. As a result of that, there have already been two regulations, so-called CRA1 and CRA2, out of Europe since the crisis and a third set of proposals is expected in November this year. The first two sets of proposals address the matters which the noble Lord raises. There is now a system of registration. There are new regulations around conflicts and how to handle them, as well as around transparency and disclosure. I agree that the issues he raises are serious, but they are very much the ones which the European regulations have addressed.
Lord Hamilton of Epsom
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that there are great shortcomings among the credit agencies when it comes to derivatives and so forth, but that that does not extend to their rating of sovereign debt? Does he further accept that when Standard and Poor’s downgraded American debt, that debt then became cheaper and bonds went up?
Lord Sassoon
I agree with my noble friend. I know that he was a member of your Lordships’ sub-committee which produced an excellent report published in July. Among its conclusions is that:
“The criticism that credit rating agencies precipitated the euro area crisis is largely unjustified; their downgrades merely reflected the seriousness of the problems that some Member States are currently facing”.
Lord Eatwell
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Sassoon, has made it clear on several occasions that appeasement of the private credit rating agencies is a central plank of government policy. What reconsideration of that policy have the Government undertaken, given the point just raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton? When the United States was downgraded, the rate of interest in the US did not rise, which the noble Lord, Lord Sassoon, on several occasions predicted would be the relationship between credit rating and interest rates; quite the contrary, interest rates in the United States fell.
Lord Sassoon
If the noble Lord means by appeasement what the Government want to do in terms of reducing the over-reliance of the market on credit rating agencies, getting away from being hardwired into arrangements that drive the debt markets, and what we want to do through increasing transparency and disclosure by the credit rating agencies, increasing competition and seeing more new entrants into the market, that is what I mean by appeasement, but I do not think it is what he means by it. We want a much more healthy market. We are going about it through a series of practical suggestions in discussion with our European partners in advance of the next proposals from Brussels.