The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)
It is a pleasure to respond on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government to the debate of my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) on the future of Dover. It is a subject that we have discussed privately and publicly many times, and we will continue to do so. I unashamedly pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s tireless work on behalf of his constituents on the issue of the future of Dover. The town has a wonderful tradition and history, and its future is enormously important not just for Dover but for the future of the UK, which needs growth to get us out of the economic situation that we inherited.
I accept many of my hon. Friend’s points. He touched eloquently on the point that I am fairly restricted in what I am able to articulate from the Dispatch Box this evening—I know what he would love me to say—so I hope he will understand that I cannot fall into proverbial potholes, which might have serious consequences as we take the process forward following receipt of the further submission from the harbour board in the near future.
As my hon. Friend alluded to, Dover has been a vital artery into the UK for many years. To this day, this great nation of ours, being an island nation, still relies enormously on our ports and our maritime industry. We are going through a renaissance as a maritime nation, with more and more shipowners registering their ships under our flag. We in the UK are not a flag of convenience; we are very strict about what ships are under our flag, which is one reason why others are attracted to the UK.
More than 90% of our international trade is conducted through our ports. Many have not had the sort of investment that my hon. Friend and others would like to have seen over the years. I think the polite term is that maritime has been a bit of a “poor relation” in transport matters. That certainly does not apply during the two years in which I have had the support of two Secretaries of State and the Prime Minister for the maritime industry.
Port capacity at Dover, particularly roll-on, roll-off issues, has to be addressed because we expect the amount of roll-on, roll-off to double by 2030. My hon. Friend touched on recent issues concerning Sea France. If he does not mind, I shall not dwell much on the acquisition of Sea France by Eurotunnel, which has been agreed by the French courts over the last couple of days—not least because we are closely studying that decision to determine whether it might be detrimental to competition for both the other ferry operators in Dover. My hon. Friend knows that I have met them on more than one occasion. They are worried about their margins, particularly in the light of pressures from emissions legislation, which adversely affects their profits.
Since I have been the Minister, the Department has had to make three important quasi-judicial decisions. The harbour revision order to which my hon. Friend referred, involving the western docks—also known locally as terminal 2—was issued in 2009. Objections by the ferry operators to harbour dues for 2010 and 2011, and a transfer scheme under the Ports Act 1991, which was originally put forward in 2010 by Dover Harbour Board to permit the port to be sold off, also need to be considered. Two of the three quasi-judicial decisions have been made in the last two years.
I know that my hon. Friend was keen for the harbour revision order to proceed. I do not think that it came as an enormous surprise when, after an 11-day public inquiry, the inspector sided with the board rather than the ferry operators on the question of the harbour dues. That is the decision that has always been made, which worries the Secretary of State and me. We will examine the legislation to ensure that it is fit for purpose, because that is obviously necessary if it is always at the back of people’s minds that no one has ever won.
The third decision that needs to be addressed is that involving, for want of a better word, the privatisation of Dover. My hon. Friend said that he did not want the port to be sold to a foreign national, a foreign country, or indeed anyone except the people of Dover. I respect and understand his view, but, as he well knows, it is not quite as simple as that. We are awaiting a further submission from the harbour board, whose chairman I have met in the last couple of weeks. I stressed to him that the Secretary of State and I considered it crucial for the board to produce its revised submission as soon as possible after the decision on harbour dues.
Let me explain what the Government seek from the harbour board. The criteria include an expectation that the Secretary of State
“'will not approve an application for the sale of a trust port”—
which is what Dover is—
“unless the sale is considered likely to deliver an enduring and significant level of community participation.”
I hope that the members of the harbour board have noted that. They know it for a fact, but I think it important to reiterate it as we await their written submissions.
My hon. Friend mentioned regeneration. I have visited Dover as a tourist over many years, but in recent months I have been there to meet members of the local authority and the harbour board, as well as local dignitaries including my hon. Friend. I know that it is imperative for the people of Dover to be able to see the tangible benefit of the wealth that it can produce, but my visits, correspondence and meetings with the hon. Gentleman and other local representatives have left me in no doubt that they cannot see it at present.
When I met representatives of the Unite union recently—a meeting facilitated by my hon. Friend—I encountered deep concern about the lack of investment, as it was described to me. I have put the points that were raised with me directly to the chairman and chief executive of the board, who have addressed themselves to many of them. I am not certain that the people of Dover, my hon. Friend or the union will accept some of their assurances, but I wanted to ensure that the concerns expressed to me by my hon. Friend and the union were put to the board formally, and to make public the point that our discussions had reached.
I genuinely believe that Dover has an exceptional future. I know that other countries around the world look to it—notwithstanding its problems—as a model for the development of their own roll-off ferries. I was in Taipei recently. Relations between Taiwan and mainland China are becoming exceptionally good—so good that roll-on, roll-off capacity is no longer anywhere near good enough so the authorities are looking to add five new ports. Members of the management at Dover were in Taiwan because the Taiwanese want to buy some of their skills and specialist knowledge on how to have so much movement through a port with a very small footprint and without having the best road infrastructure in the world. That infrastructure issue is also a reason why the western port—terminal 2—is so important.
I am disappointed that the harbour board feels that the market is not currently at a level that will allow for active development of the western port to go ahead, although I understand its decision. I intend to discuss the issue with the board soon. We should not just wait for the market to move; we must be ready when the market moves. The local authority is very keen for the western port to be developed so we can move forward and have regeneration.
I am sorry that I cannot at present do many of the things my hon. Friend asks me to do. I will consider all the points he has raised, however, but the quasi-judicial process that is under way may impose some restrictions.
I should pay tribute to the Bishop of Dover for the work he has done in bringing the community together. Others, as well as elected politicians, have a role to play, and he has done very helpful work.
My hon. Friend mentioned board appointments. We already have a situation in which there are advertisements for board vacancies so local people can apply for them; the posts will be advertised locally as well as in the national press. My hon. Friend asked whether there might be local involvement on the selection panel, too. I will look into that. At present it is not the case, however.
I am sure my hon. Friend knows that I was asked to extend the membership of the board by several members for two years. I looked into that and decided that, as we are currently waiting for the submission and so forth, a one-year extension was the maximum period I was willing to consider at present. I did that not to cause instability in the board, but to do the exact opposite: to make its members concentrate their minds on the future and the need to address the situation in Dover.
To be fair, that situation was created by the previous Administration, who pushed the privatisation agenda forward without carefully thinking through what that would actually do. They opened a Pandora’s box. What we now need to do is open things up fully, so that nationally we can get the full benefits of a much more efficient and growing Dover port, and at the same time the people of Dover and Deal have ownership and get tangible benefits, even if they are not involved in the day-to-day running of the port. Anyone who knows anything about the running of a port knows that it is absolutely crucial to have experts in there running it and overseeing the business side of things. It is a very skilful job to run a port.
In conclusion, although this is a very frustrating time for the workers, the unions and their representatives in Dover, it is also quite an exciting time. If we can all get this right—that is the most important thing—a great national asset with wonderful history, which is known around the world, could work brilliantly for the local people and the country as a whole. It could enhance this great maritime nation in which we live.
Let me conclude the debate by addressing a point that I found slightly amusing. Whatever happens, the cliffs of Dover are not for sale—not to anybody from any nation—as they sit outside the port of Dover.
Question put and agreed to.