Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, we have had a really good Moses Room debate. As I have experienced on several occasions, it is something like an academic seminar, from which one learns a good deal. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, partly because I should have been reading a lot of this stuff before and she made me read it. We have had a very interesting and informative debate in which I have to say that the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, was one of the most interesting and inspiring. I hope that we will now go away and start arguing about this more actively in our parties and groups to take it forward.
I have a speech with a whole range of statistics on what the Government are doing about social mobility, but I want to concentrate on character and resilience, which is the bit that has not been as emphasised in dealing with social mobility as it should have been.
I was originally a bit of a cynic about the big society, the national citizen service and community organisers, until I went to see a national citizen service scheme in Bradford last summer and spent a long afternoon with children from what I know to be some of the roughest schools in Bradford, when I was asked to teach them how to give a speech. It was fascinating, because I realised that I was dealing with people who thought that they could not do things, that they could never stand up in front of others and perform. I managed to persuade three of them to do so. I began to see that that course gives you that much more confidence to believe that you can do things which before you thought that you could not. I am now a strong proponent of national citizen service. We are expanding its coverage this summer. Of course, it is only one of the many elements that we need, but it is giving children at different levels more opportunity to realise: “I can do that”. It teaches them how to volunteer and to take part in community activities. That is exactly the sort of thing that helps.
Similarly with the community organisers’ scheme. In Yorkshire, I see the problems of social mobility most of all in the big, almost entirely white estates in Bradford and Leeds—and occasionally in Sheffield and Hull. There is very high unemployment, a lot of intergenerational unemployment and a deep sense of grievance that the local authority does not look after them, but they do not actually look after themselves very much. There is a high incidence of Staffordshire bull terriers. There is a sense that nothing much is being done for them. The community organisers’ scheme tries to get them back into the habit of thinking that they could do some things for themselves with themselves, the local authority and local voluntary organisations. That is how you start to rebuild a community, because, as the right reverend Prelate said, the collapse of local community is part of the problem here. Your nonconformist church, your established church or whatever gave you a lot of those skills as you grew up within it. Sunday schools were not just about learning the number of books in the Old Testament, there were a lot of other things as well. That part of what the Government are doing is useful.
I declare an interest. For the past seven years, I have been chair of a musical charity. I was bounced into it by some young men who have been choristers at Westminster Abbey a long time after me, who decided that they were going to set up not only a choir but something that would bring music into primary schools. Two weeks ago, as they took over a church in the City of London, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London and I watched the Hackney Youth Children’s Choir performing. Evidently from their clothing, they were children from deprived backgrounds, standing up and performing in front of us and really enjoying themselves and therefore getting a sense that they can do things.
I believe that music in schools, as well as sport and getting people out learning to volunteer, is a very important part of building self-confidence. One of the reasons why the Parliament Choir is so good is that music teaches you two of the basic political skills: one, standing up in front of other people; and two, projecting your voice. Of course, that suggests that not everything we do on character and resilience needs to be done by government, let alone central government. A lot of this can be done by volunteers, by non-governmental organisations and by government—locally and centrally—and civil society working together.
A number of people have talked about early years and talking to small children. I have another personal interest in that I watch my two-and-a-half year-old grandson and am deeply conscious that the amount you talk to a small child comes right back at you over the months, and that those whose parents do not talk to them are a long way behind by the time they are three. In spite of the attacks in the Daily Mail, I am strongly in favour of local authorities and voluntary organisations providing parenting class incentives, explaining to young parents in particular what they can do for their children before they go to school, such as breakfast clubs and children’s centres. My figures suggest that actually the reduction in the number of children’s centres has been extremely small in the past two or three years. There has been a certain amount of merging and so on. We all recognise that this is a very important part of the mix of things that we need to do.
Moving on to what one does in the later years, I find it very depressing as I go around Yorkshire and ask people in pubs, restaurants and hotels why they employ so many Poles, Slovaks, Lithuanians and so on, and the answer is almost always, “Because they turn up for work on time, they do not take sick leave, they dress smartly and they want to get on”. Unfortunately, the children from these big inner-city estates tend to take a lot of sickies and often do not really want to work the hours that they would have to. We should be motivating them to think, “Actually, this is quite fun” and that living in Upper Wharfedale or wherever it may be for a bit might be also quite fun. It is not just a matter of forcing people to work and showing them what they can do but showing them that they can follow their own careers and that work cheers you up.
The noble Lord, Lord Knight, asked how we get people out of poverty. The best way to get people out of poverty is to get them into work—I think we all agree—and that is partly where character and resilience are needed to motivate all these people who are growing up, sitting around and complaining. I am conscious that I am caricaturing a little—but not very much. I have a vivid memory of an afternoon in Armley jail in Leeds talking to the “popos”—the persistent and prolific offenders—and thinking that these people actually had the talent to do things if they had only been directed and encouraged in the right way.
A number of other points have been made about state schools and public schools. The question of public benefit is clearly one that we need to revisit. I know that a number of public schools are sharing their excellent facilities with local state schools. That needs to be encouraged. It is something that they should be doing on their own anyway. They can certainly help with volunteering and getting out in local communities, and that is something that we should be taking a good deal further.
Universities and access were mentioned. Again, I have an interest to declare. When I taught at the University of Oxford, every year I used to take children from sixth forms in Wandsworth around Oxford. It was a disillusioning experience, I have to say. I did it because my children were at state schools in Wandsworth. The culture clash between many of the working-class children from Wandsworth and the admissions tutors at Oxford colleges was sometimes far too wide to be able to bridge. It is excellent that the Sutton Trust and others are doing a great deal with summer schools and access programmes. Partly re-educating the admissions tutors is a road we need to go down.
Apprenticeships help a great deal, particularly as we move towards keeping people in school until 17 and 18 and discouraging people from dropping out of education altogether. Giving people practical and directed work experience with apprenticeships is highly desirable. The number of apprenticeships has been rising over the past two years and we wish to take it a good deal further. Volunteering of all sorts—the Girl Guides, the Woodcraft Folk and all those other things—used to provide opportunities for this. We have to build that back in. As has also been said, this is all part of citizenship. It is not an accident that those big, working-class estates only provide a 15% turnout at local elections and about 25% at general elections. They feel completely disengaged, so we need to rebuild the local community for all these activities.
We have heard about a wider range of issues from my noble friend Lady Miller, the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby on a more equal society and moral climate, which go wider than we can go on this occasion. We recognise that part of what went wrong over the past 25 years has been that we have become a much more atomised society, which valued wealth for its own sake and in which inequality has risen. Part of the argument that we all need to be making about taxation, personal reward and what companies and banks pay is that a society which is too unequal becomes a society which is very difficult to hold together. One loses a sense of common interest and community, locally, regionally and nationally. The banking commission hints at that in one or two places, but does not quite get sufficiently explicit on it; that sounds to me like a good role for the Church of England to take further in its contribution to the public debate.
Having made those comments as a wind-up to this seminar, I thank again my noble friend Lady Tyler for introducing this subject and for encouraging me to read a number of things which her All-Party Parliamentary Group has produced; I very much look forward to seeing what it produces from now on. I know that the Deputy Prime Minister and others are actively interested in the work of this group. We recognise that social mobility and inclusion are extremely complex areas. There is no single factor but a whole host of factors that come into play. I hope that we are all committed to building a more socially inclusive and coherent society.