(1 day, 15 hours ago)
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Lord Dubs
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effectiveness of the United Kingdom’s soft power, having regard in particular to the BBC World Service, the British Council and universities.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Collins of Highbury) (Lab)
My Lords, we recognise the opportunity and potential that the UK’s soft power presents. The Soft Power Council is advising government on how best to shape a new strategy on soft power. The British Council reaches around 600 million people globally, promoting UK values and interests. The BBC is the world’s most trusted global broadcaster. The United Kingdom is the top destination for study and research, with four universities in the world’s top 10 and 17 in the top 100.
Lord Dubs (Lab)
My Lords, I welcome my noble friend’s commitment to the importance of soft power. As a humanist, perhaps I may quote something from the 1940s, when a question was asked of Stalin about the power of the church. Stalin’s answer was, “How many divisions has the Pope?” We are in a fantastically privileged position, but we are going to lose it all if we do not put our full effort into improving our soft power. The BBC is losing out to Russia and China. I beg the Government to do more for soft power.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I must declare an interest as well, as a humanist. My noble friend is absolutely right, but one reason why the Soft Power Council is essential is that it is not restricted to UK government. Our soft power is not only about UK government action, although that is important; it is about how we mobilise all elements of soft power. By the way, in all the countries I have visited in Africa, every leader speaks to me about one thing—and, on many occasions, they share my pride in Arsenal. They talk about the Premier League. Its reach is massive. We should understand that soft power is not limited to the number of things that we talk about; it is about economic development and growth, education and research.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I declare my interest as being in receipt of a British Council grant to enable me to study at a Danish university. Does the Minister share my concern at the poor ability of British people to speak a foreign language? Is that something his department will look at, to ensure that there is more foreign language teaching in schools?
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I agree with the noble Baroness. Spreading the English language has been the most important element of the British Council’s commercial activity. I also agree that how we support the teaching of foreign languages here is important. I was in front of the Foreign Affairs Committee this morning making that exact point: how we communicate is really important. When I have visited countries, I have seen that those that want economic growth and development see English as a tool for business. They do not see it as a cultural issue; they see having English taught in their schools as a way of growing their economy. Even in the francophone countries, that is what they tell me.
Baroness Coussins (CB)
My Lords, what assessment have the Government made of the risk of further World Service closures, which might result in Russia or China immediately occupying those frequencies? Would not more robust, long-term government funding for the World Service be a sensible protective measure against disinformation?
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
The noble Baroness is right: we should not underestimate the importance of the World Service and its reach. It has exceeded the target we set for it, to reach 306 million people, so we know how important it is. The noble Baroness makes a really important point. We need a fully funded World Service and a long-term, sustainable solution, and we think the upcoming BBC charter review is the right place to do that. I hear what the noble Baroness says about radio frequencies. Certainly, any change to broadcasting radio facilities is subject to dialogue with the FCDO.
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, while soft power is of course a vital instrument for advancing the UK’s values and global influence, there is another side to it. Therefore, I want to ask the Minister what assessment the Government have made of the ways in which soft power can be used also by hostile states, such as Russia, Iran and China, to undermine democratic societies, including our own, and what steps the Government are taking to mitigate these risks.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
We have had many debates in the House about this, certainly about malign influence and misinformation, particularly in the use of social media and other forms of communication that have not been mediated through journalists and fact-checking. The noble Lord is absolutely right. We obviously need to take proper countermeasures in terms of security. That is what the national security review is doing, and I know the noble Lord had questions about that. However, the context of the debate—and it is why my noble friend’s Question is so important—is about being positive about our soft power, not seeing it as being particularly about defence and security but seeing it as being about how we can spread our values about how we work, particularly supporting economic growth.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, notwithstanding English football, one reason why we are among the top for soft power reputation around the world has been the very partnerships to which the Minister has referred. We have invested official development assistance strategically to build those partnerships, especially through the BBC World Service and the British Council and through development research from our universities. However, is the Minister not as concerned as I am to read the Independent Commission for Aid Impact report today, which says that UK ODA will now be at 0.24%, the lowest ever since statistics have been compiled about UK development assistance? If we are to maintain our position in the world, will the Minister listen to those who are saying that we need to continue to invest in those very bodies which have developed the partnerships that have been so successful over the years?
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I think my noble friend Lady Chapman has answered these points. There is part of a spending review and lots of decisions have not yet been made. We will get more detail in the next few weeks and certainly by November. However, I shall repeat what I said before on our soft power and our focus on economic development: ODA is not the only tool in our toolkit. When African leaders speak to me, and certainly those in the global South, they do not say they want aid; they say they want economic diversification, inward investment and value addition. Our City of London is one of the biggest providers of capital to African companies—it is those sorts of areas of soft power that we need to focus on. The partnership approach we are now taking is that we are listening to the continent and responding to it.
Baroness Alexander of Cleveden (Lab)
My Lords, I declare my interest as the vice-chair of the British Council. As has been acknowledged, the British Council is a vital soft power interest for the United Kingdom. I ask my noble friend the Minister to confirm that his department is now actively engaged in how to alleviate the Covid-era loan burden which was provided by the previous Government. Alleviating that Covid-era loan is vital to securing the financial sustainability of the council and its role in supporting British interests and soft power globally in these troubled times.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I reassure my noble friend that we are working with the British Council on a plan to return it to financial sustainability. We are committed to a successful British Council that is financially stable, and our funding is over £160 million in 2025-26. FCDO officials are working closely with the British Council on a financial turnaround plan to ensure that its finances are returned to a stable footing and that the council can continue delivering for the UK for years to come.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, is entirely right to emphasise the importance of soft power. I just add a note of regret that Joe Nye of Harvard, who is a strong friend of this country and the inventor of much of the thinking behind the whole soft power concept, died very suddenly recently. The world needs a man like that now, and we will miss him.
The Foreign Secretary deserves some credit too, because he has brought forward the Soft Power Council, to which he kindly invited me. The only snag was that when we discussed it and an emissary came to discuss it with me, they were full of new ideas but they seemed to have overlooked one vital idea: that by far the biggest soft bed and fertilising area for soft power in this world is the enormous and growing Commonwealth. There was no mention of that in the initial Soft Power Council report. I know that the Minister thinks quite differently, so could he take a message back to his office and remind them that soft power and the Commonwealth are two massive supports for the prosperity and security of this country as well?
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
I am tempted to say I agree with the noble Lord, but then I am in danger of suggesting that I am not in agreement with the Foreign Secretary. Let me be very clear: we are at one, because the Commonwealth is very important. We have a new secretary-general, who is working through it, and we are giving support to her in the development of a clear strategy focusing on the best bits of it. However, as the noble Lord knows, I see the Commonwealth as more than simply an association of Governments. It is about people and how we bring them together, whether civil society, businesses or other organisations. The simple fact is that the Commonwealth adds value to business and economic development, and we are absolutely focused on delivering that in the future.