Justice and Home Affairs Committee
Wednesday 2nd September 2026
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11:47
Baroness Berridge
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Baroness Berridge
But for the. Can you give us some of the effects, though not just the PTSD, have. Have you from your research? I know we've we've heard that for many people it's really positive. I've done it myself. It's really interesting, etc. I've come across other people who end up with effects for a long period of time, who end up off work, and that's an impact on the employer for that. I know it's a small minority of people, but what is the long do you have evidence of a long term effect?
11:47
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
I was going to say most of the research has been concentrated on PTSD symptoms, probably because they're they're varied. You can have the nightmares of the avoidance and the negative mood and so on, and depression in terms of the other impacts, they're largely unknown, I would say. So for example, the relational impacts that I talked about on the family and friends. There's also impacts around employment. Again, there isn't much research on that in terms of how jurors navigate that or employers navigate that.
Having jurors, you know, their employees serve on jury service. So it's these are some questions that we'd like to explore going forward. Thank you.
Having jurors, you know, their employees serve on jury service. So it's these are some questions that we'd like to explore going forward. Thank you.
11:48
11:48
Lord Hogan-Howe
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Lord Hogan-Howe
Thank you. Let me. Seems to me you've helped to shine a light on a probably unfashionable part of the of the criminal justice system around jurors and their experience. And that's, I think, been really helpful, particularly if you're looking about, you know, how the ushers focus is. It seems to me sometimes justice focuses on getting the administration of the court rather than the professionalisation of jury care and training, perhaps, and access to longer term counselling services.
But this is your opportunity, I suppose, and you've touched on it throughout the last hour and a half. What recommendations would you want us to make to the government now? And the general rules apply? Obviously, the more expensive it is and the longer the list, the less likely they are to happen. But I think you know what your experience has shown you would make a real difference in the coming year or two.
But this is your opportunity, I suppose, and you've touched on it throughout the last hour and a half. What recommendations would you want us to make to the government now? And the general rules apply? Obviously, the more expensive it is and the longer the list, the less likely they are to happen. But I think you know what your experience has shown you would make a real difference in the coming year or two.
11:49
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
So in our written evidence, we provided 11 recommendations that we feel would be beneficial for for jurors. So they range from that preparation materials for jurors before they start and training for staff while they are to support jurors, while they go through through their their jury service and having those formal, meaningful opportunities for individuals to disclose why serving on a particular trial may be particularly challenging for them, and a request to be allocated to to a different trial.
Minimum standards around accommodation for jurors so that they have minimum standards in terms of their their breaks, the facilities that they have access to, and so on. While they're in courts making sure that that graphic evidence guidance is updated so that they're not necessarily exposed repeatedly to graphic evidence that is not actually benefiting their understanding of what happened within that courtroom setting.
Minimum standards around accommodation for jurors so that they have minimum standards in terms of their their breaks, the facilities that they have access to, and so on. While they're in courts making sure that that graphic evidence guidance is updated so that they're not necessarily exposed repeatedly to graphic evidence that is not actually benefiting their understanding of what happened within that courtroom setting.
11:50
Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
Yes. And I just wanted to add as well, I recognise, you know, going back to the previous comments around the court infrastructure, buildings, that's very costly. But I think I want to really kind of state the importance of the small things as well. So the recognition of jurors via government support for Jury Appreciation Week, just to thank them for the support and the role, the important role that they do, jurors really do value that. And that came across in the observations as well with the court staff, even the small, meaningful interactions that counted a lot more than necessarily the big, costly changes that could be recommended.
But we're not going to. Yeah, yeah.
But we're not going to. Yeah, yeah.
11:50
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
And then rolling out that specialist support service that jurors can access counseling services after they finish their service. Longer term guides to jury service for employers. We've had anecdotal conversations with jurors who talk about pressure from their employers to get back to work, trying to juggle doing work whilst on jury service. So guides around that. We've also had feedback from jurors about finishing jury service, you know, 11:00 in the morning and then being back at work that afternoon and how difficult it is to switch off.
And there's no there's no buffer between finishing your jury service and returning to work. It may be the same day or the next day, and they've got all of that difficult information to process and come to terms with. And so that kind of education and guidance around employment and return to employment.
And there's no there's no buffer between finishing your jury service and returning to work. It may be the same day or the next day, and they've got all of that difficult information to process and come to terms with. And so that kind of education and guidance around employment and return to employment.
11:51
11:51
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah. And those disclosure rules and those would be the recommendations. As I say, some of them are quite, as Matt said, quite low cost. A lot of the work interventions with staff and training. Some of it is really basic information that would make a real difference to jurors. We've seen examples where jurors are referred to throughout their service by a number they're not referred to by their name, and little things like that is really dehumanising when you're going through a very difficult time.
So small things around educating court staff on how to talk to people, how to recognise mental health and how to interact with them, could make a real difference to that day to day experience of being a juror.
So small things around educating court staff on how to talk to people, how to recognise mental health and how to interact with them, could make a real difference to that day to day experience of being a juror.
11:52
Lord Dubs
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Lord Dubs
Could I could I just ask, do you think there is something in in the culture or lacking in the culture, in that employers are not sufficiently aware that this is a civic responsibility? I draw an analogy with mountain rescue, which is very localised, where the where the mountain rescue volunteers are given normally lots of time off because they know if you take an error like the Lake District, the employers know this is all part of the local local community.
And this is very important. But there isn't that sort of culture that transcends employers as a whole.
And this is very important. But there isn't that sort of culture that transcends employers as a whole.
11:53
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Now, as I say, the work that we're doing around Jewelry Appreciation Week is around raising that societal awareness of what it is and how important it is. And, and that jurors need the time to be able to do that service, because I don't think there is necessarily that understanding and recognition by employers and just colleagues. You know, we've spoken to jurors who said, I did, you know, X number of weeks on a really difficult child abuse case went back into work and all my colleagues would go, oh, you've had a good skive off.
I've been picking up your work while you've been gone. And it's and it's just not like that. And so I think some of that education and awareness is would be really beneficial in helping them transition back into employment.
I've been picking up your work while you've been gone. And it's and it's just not like that. And so I think some of that education and awareness is would be really beneficial in helping them transition back into employment.
11:53
11:53
Lord Hogan-Howe
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Lord Hogan-Howe
11:54
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah. In our experience, no member of staff talked to us about a formal training program that they'd had. A lot of them talked to us about it being very ad hoc on the job training, several particularly smaller courts talked about having to inhabit multiple roles that one day you were the jewellery officer, the next day you were an usher that you were rotating through because just one member of staff on holiday or sick meant you were doing different roles, and that they were kind of picking those up sort of as they went through.
And staff also talked to us about quite a high turnover of staff as well , within those kind of juror facing roles as well, that pose some challenges around kind of training and handover and so on. So we were certainly not aware of any kind of national programme or standard around training that was made aware to us anyway, but we can certainly see that there would be great benefit to, to jurors and probably to the court staff themselves in feeling more confident and competent in dealing with some of these situations.
And if they were given more comprehensive training on some of those aspects. What we really emphasize is a lot of the work as being a an usher, a jury officer, it's a it's a customer service role, it's interpersonal skills. It's around reassuring individuals and being a friendly face as much as getting people here, there, and that kind of system based role.
And staff also talked to us about quite a high turnover of staff as well , within those kind of juror facing roles as well, that pose some challenges around kind of training and handover and so on. So we were certainly not aware of any kind of national programme or standard around training that was made aware to us anyway, but we can certainly see that there would be great benefit to, to jurors and probably to the court staff themselves in feeling more confident and competent in dealing with some of these situations.
And if they were given more comprehensive training on some of those aspects. What we really emphasize is a lot of the work as being a an usher, a jury officer, it's a it's a customer service role, it's interpersonal skills. It's around reassuring individuals and being a friendly face as much as getting people here, there, and that kind of system based role.
11:55
11:56
Lord Empey
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Lord Empey
Just one last point, the did I pick you up correctly? Earlier you mentioned things, simple things. The jury are subjected to, like notices that they felt were negative. I mean, is that commonplace? And presumably the message can be got across, but perhaps in a less aggressive way. Is that what you're saying?
11:56
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it's very much drummed into jurors. Every day they're in court. They're told at the end of the day, do not talk about this with anyone. There's posters around waiting areas. They're told at the end of the trial, it's very much drummed into jurors, and they take that very seriously. In some courts that we saw, certainly not all of them. It was much more so with examples of, as I say, newspaper articles where jurors have been prosecuted and so on, which in one court was the first thing jurors saw as they walked into those those jewellery assembly areas.
11:57
11:57
Lord Foster of Bath
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Lord Foster of Bath
Can I just end that throughout? There's one issue that in fact, was raised by Lord Anderson some time ago now, and that is the basically the briefing to the the prosecution, CPS prosecution and so on about how they handle themselves in in a court. And you were suggesting that there needs to be guidance and advice given to them. The problem I kept pondering this ever since you raised it. The issue of of how that therefore constrains their ability to prosecute the case in the way they believe is the right way to do it on behalf of CPS who are doing it on behalf of of the public, can you just expand a little bit more? I'm sorry.
It's a very niche issue, but it's been worrying me.
It's a very niche issue, but it's been worrying me.
11:58
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think there is in in all of this, there is always a tension between presenting the evidence and, you know, following due practice and seeing that justice is done and supporting the well-being of the jurors to as to as much as is possible. So there is always going to be that tension. The research that we have done shows that for certain types of evidence, there is a way of presenting them that is less distressing.
So to present the fact that somebody has suffered a blunt force trauma to the head, there are a variety of different ways that that evidence could be put forward in court. Our research at the moment is showing that there is one way of doing that that is slightly less distressing to jurors than the other ways. So I think there is potential for for us to, to share those those findings in relation to that specific point, but also to work with prosecutors, work with the CPS around them, understanding the challenges, what we wouldn't want to do.
And we're not we're we have psychology background where psychologists were not prosecutors, you know, we are not legal professionals is to say that you should not do this or you cannot do that because we're not in a position to be able to, to, to make those recommendations. However, what we would say is please be aware that if you are presenting this type of evidence, it is more distressing than that type of evidence. Please be aware that jurors report the more times they're exposed to that evidence, the more difficult it is.
Is there a minimum number to achieve your point, to achieve your goals that can be done and beyond which point? It is more gratuitous of trying to change emotions. So I think it's more around those conversations and awareness than anything hard written down to say, do this, don't do this.
So to present the fact that somebody has suffered a blunt force trauma to the head, there are a variety of different ways that that evidence could be put forward in court. Our research at the moment is showing that there is one way of doing that that is slightly less distressing to jurors than the other ways. So I think there is potential for for us to, to share those those findings in relation to that specific point, but also to work with prosecutors, work with the CPS around them, understanding the challenges, what we wouldn't want to do.
And we're not we're we have psychology background where psychologists were not prosecutors, you know, we are not legal professionals is to say that you should not do this or you cannot do that because we're not in a position to be able to, to, to make those recommendations. However, what we would say is please be aware that if you are presenting this type of evidence, it is more distressing than that type of evidence. Please be aware that jurors report the more times they're exposed to that evidence, the more difficult it is.
Is there a minimum number to achieve your point, to achieve your goals that can be done and beyond which point? It is more gratuitous of trying to change emotions. So I think it's more around those conversations and awareness than anything hard written down to say, do this, don't do this.
12:00
12:00
12:00
Baroness Hughes of Stretford
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Baroness Hughes of Stretford
There's another point. And I'm sorry to come in right at the end with this, but it's been chewing away at me because I think I feel that all the issues we've talked about are important, of course, in terms of juror wellbeing and what can affect it. But it seems to me that the elephant in the room is the deliberation experience. You know, coming into a situation with 11 people that you don't know and having to negotiate the kind of social dynamics and different personalities.
We've had a paper, a written paper, evidence that that, you know, theorizes about what some of those might be. And I do know from some conversations with friends who've done jury service that all sorts of things can happen. And the impact on people, you know, you can get people who are very outspoken and tend to lead the discussion, who make comments about the defendant or the or the complainant that other people find intimidated about challenging.
All of those dynamics must play out in that and can have a big impact on the outcome, but also on jurors experience of their jury process. Has there been, you know, because of the block? They're saying anything that happens in the deliberation room, has there been any analysis at all, any research without discussing individual cases on those sorts of dynamics in the deliberation room and nothing. No, no.
We've had a paper, a written paper, evidence that that, you know, theorizes about what some of those might be. And I do know from some conversations with friends who've done jury service that all sorts of things can happen. And the impact on people, you know, you can get people who are very outspoken and tend to lead the discussion, who make comments about the defendant or the or the complainant that other people find intimidated about challenging.
All of those dynamics must play out in that and can have a big impact on the outcome, but also on jurors experience of their jury process. Has there been, you know, because of the block? They're saying anything that happens in the deliberation room, has there been any analysis at all, any research without discussing individual cases on those sorts of dynamics in the deliberation room and nothing. No, no.
12:02
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
All we've got is, as I say, data from America and from this country as well, that says the deliberations are the one of the most consistently coming through the research as one of the most challenging aspects. And it's the weight of the decision. It's the worry. You've got it wrong in the high profile cases. It's there. After you've made your decision, you've finished your jury service. All of the online, they got it wrong.
They've reached the wrong decision. So there's a lot of pressure and a lot of difficulty there. There is at the moment , we understand in Scotland some work being done to change the law, to allow some research to examine.
They've reached the wrong decision. So there's a lot of pressure and a lot of difficulty there. There is at the moment , we understand in Scotland some work being done to change the law, to allow some research to examine.
12:02
12:02
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Juror deliberations, so that research can access those deliberations to understand some of those variables a little bit better, to be able to understand what jurors may need in order to help them in those deliberations, to evaluate the evidence accurately. But as of yet, no research has yet been granted those permissions to look at that.
12:03
12:03
Baroness Berridge
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Baroness Berridge
You mentioned in your previous just before that answer about the different types of evidence. We know that through the mobile phone that moving images are much more common now in criminal cases. From your expertise and evidence, does it have a different impact on people to see moving evidence, moving images than just to have it on the record than, for instance, the oral description by a witness? And what are the different effects, please?
12:04
12:04
12:04
12:04
12:05
12:05
12:05
Lord Foster of Bath
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Lord Foster of Bath
Thank you. Look, we must bring it to a close. Can I thank you both very, very much indeed. On behalf of the entire committee, some of us are complete novices and have learned a great deal, not only from what you wrote in advance of this session, but the conversations that we've had. A number of my colleagues have got slightly more experience than I have, but I'm sure they, too, have found it extremely valuable.
So on behalf of all of us, thank you very much indeed. Order, order! The meeting is now suspended.
So on behalf of all of us, thank you very much indeed. Order, order! The meeting is now suspended.