Administration Committee
Tuesday 15th September 2026
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10:10
10:10
Nick Smith
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Nick Smith
Today. And we've got our General Election planning inquiry this morning. Welcome, and thank you for coming to this second session. Our witnesses of our inquiry into general election planning. We welcome our witnesses, who I will invite to introduce themselves in a few moments. We are grateful to each former Member of Parliament for coming to the committee today to speak to us about their experiences of leaving Parliament. The Administration Committee in the last Parliament looked at the quality of services provided to MPs when they leave the House and as part of our inquiry, we want to look at whether the support put in place after the last general election was effective in helping MPs transition to a life after Parliament.
So thanks to our witnesses, can you please introduce yourself?
So thanks to our witnesses, can you please introduce yourself?
10:11
10:11
10:11
Nick Smith
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Nick Smith
Thank you all. First question from me to you, Sir Charles. You were chair of the previous administration committee when it conducted its work on supporting members when they leave the house. You called that work smoothing the cliff edge, which which acknowledged that departure is a difficult time. Did the support that was put in place after the 2024 election live up to your expectations.
10:11
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
And chair, for the sake of brevity, it did live up to my expectations. I would argue and give evidence that more needs to be done and we constantly need to be improving. But I was very impressed by the performance of the house service , and although I am now on the board of Ipsa, I'm here in my own capacity. Ipsa came through as well with the pledges it made. So I would have to say you can't give ten out of ten, but I would give nine and a half out of ten.
10:12
10:12
10:12
10:12
10:12
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
I kind of expected it, so I mean, you you could see the opinion polls, you could see what was happening. So it wasn't like I walked into the count and got a shock. But there's not much you can do to prepare. You can't apply for jobs in an election campaign. And imagine if it got out. So literally, I sort of I sort of knew what I would try to do, but I don't think any I don't think you really know until it happens how big a shock it is or how different it is on the Friday morning going into the office to start winding up versus planning for another term.
So it it takes a while to get your head into. And I sort of rush to everything. I was cancelling everything on that Friday morning, which may or may not be the right thing to do, but I was very determined at two months I wanted it done. That was what I'd always been given, you know, until about near the end of the last Parliament. It was two months. You had to wind everything up.
So that's what I had got everything set up for. That's what I stuck to. But I'm not sure I would recommend rushing at things quite that way, but I knew that's what would work for me in other situations. I like to just get get out of the place. It's finished. Move on to the next thing. I don't want to be hanging around.
So it it takes a while to get your head into. And I sort of rush to everything. I was cancelling everything on that Friday morning, which may or may not be the right thing to do, but I was very determined at two months I wanted it done. That was what I'd always been given, you know, until about near the end of the last Parliament. It was two months. You had to wind everything up.
So that's what I had got everything set up for. That's what I stuck to. But I'm not sure I would recommend rushing at things quite that way, but I knew that's what would work for me in other situations. I like to just get get out of the place. It's finished. Move on to the next thing. I don't want to be hanging around.
10:13
10:14
10:14
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
Any therapeutic model of trauma identifies loss of job as a form of trauma. I think when you lose your job on TV. In front of your friends and family. Although I told my mum not to come, I didn't want to see. I didn't want her to see. And knowing your colleagues are watching across the country and that you are a 58 year old unemployed woman and you're making your staff redundant. I don't know how you're supposed to prepare for that, especially as, like Nigel says, you fight to win even if you know you're going to lose.
You have to fight to win. You cannot start buffing up your CV. And I honestly don't know when you'd have the time. I was campaigning 16 hours a day for six weeks. You have to put out a face that says, I'm going to win. That is a. It's not just that. It's a form of trauma to get to the end of that. It's also slightly mentally deranging because in.
In my case, my party was going to win. That was part of the problem for me having to be positive about that, which I was. I was very pleased that my party was going to win. But I have you know, I also had some preparedness in that it's that sort of seat. The seat that I represented is the sort of seat that always votes against the government. It likes to give the government a good kicking.
So. But how well prepared are you to make your staff redundant at 4:00 in the morning? I honestly don't know how you're supposed to prepare for that. I mean, I did I was prepared in the sense that I'd prepared my staff via my office manager and with my office manager to make sure they all had CVS. We worked out the emails of which MPs we knew were going to win, and we had jobs for most of my constituency staff very quickly, and that was a preparedness thing.
We did that at six weeks out under a veil of secrecy and said, you don't speak about this. I'm afraid, because you can't let anyone in the constituency know that you think you're going to lose. So we just did it as a prepared but being prepared personally, I mean, we'll probably come back to that, but I think calling it an unexpected anything and unexpected difficulty about that is just a real exercise in understatement. Yeah, it's it's traumatic.
Your entire way of life and very publicly as well, it feels is, is suddenly changed in a very big and public way. But the biggest trauma for me was making my staff redundant.
You have to fight to win. You cannot start buffing up your CV. And I honestly don't know when you'd have the time. I was campaigning 16 hours a day for six weeks. You have to put out a face that says, I'm going to win. That is a. It's not just that. It's a form of trauma to get to the end of that. It's also slightly mentally deranging because in.
In my case, my party was going to win. That was part of the problem for me having to be positive about that, which I was. I was very pleased that my party was going to win. But I have you know, I also had some preparedness in that it's that sort of seat. The seat that I represented is the sort of seat that always votes against the government. It likes to give the government a good kicking.
So. But how well prepared are you to make your staff redundant at 4:00 in the morning? I honestly don't know how you're supposed to prepare for that. I mean, I did I was prepared in the sense that I'd prepared my staff via my office manager and with my office manager to make sure they all had CVS. We worked out the emails of which MPs we knew were going to win, and we had jobs for most of my constituency staff very quickly, and that was a preparedness thing.
We did that at six weeks out under a veil of secrecy and said, you don't speak about this. I'm afraid, because you can't let anyone in the constituency know that you think you're going to lose. So we just did it as a prepared but being prepared personally, I mean, we'll probably come back to that, but I think calling it an unexpected anything and unexpected difficulty about that is just a real exercise in understatement. Yeah, it's it's traumatic.
Your entire way of life and very publicly as well, it feels is, is suddenly changed in a very big and public way. But the biggest trauma for me was making my staff redundant.
10:17
10:17
10:17
Bob Blackman
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Bob Blackman
What was unexpected was losing the general election in my seat. It's been Tory forever. Ever. Since the seat was invented, and it was only towards the end that I could glean that we knew that the Tories weren't going to win. But I then started to go if it's the swing is much bigger, then even seats like mine, which were rock solid Tory a majority of over 18,000. And so I'd never done any forward planning.
So for people like me, I have to say, Mr. Chairman, I was mildly surprised and pleased by the way that we were looked after, because I think in the past it's been a bit of a disaster. It's been a bit of a cliff edge, and this was not a cliff edge. We were given, I think, adequate time to sort out our affairs as far as our flats, apartments and housing were concerned, clearing the office is going to be a bit of a rush.
That's going to be the priority. So actually having somewhere to put all the stuff from the office within London, I think is really useful because I had 32 years of memories or tat, as Colonel Bob Stewart would refer to it as, which is now sitting in his garage, God bless him. And so having that ability to get all your stuff out somewhere and then plan for the future, I think was good to be greeted by a number of people on the day you got back, I think was excellent talking you through the pension arrangements, the redundancy and all of that, because there again, my mind was never on the pension, it was never on redundancy, it was never on leaving Parliament.
And so I think that that four months of coming to terms with everything, still seeing your friends as well, your colleagues, because 251 conservatives lost their seats that day meant that it wasn't such a shock. It wasn't as brutal as it clearly has been in the past. So I've got to say, from my viewpoint, I was really grateful. There were no surprises.
So for people like me, I have to say, Mr. Chairman, I was mildly surprised and pleased by the way that we were looked after, because I think in the past it's been a bit of a disaster. It's been a bit of a cliff edge, and this was not a cliff edge. We were given, I think, adequate time to sort out our affairs as far as our flats, apartments and housing were concerned, clearing the office is going to be a bit of a rush.
That's going to be the priority. So actually having somewhere to put all the stuff from the office within London, I think is really useful because I had 32 years of memories or tat, as Colonel Bob Stewart would refer to it as, which is now sitting in his garage, God bless him. And so having that ability to get all your stuff out somewhere and then plan for the future, I think was good to be greeted by a number of people on the day you got back, I think was excellent talking you through the pension arrangements, the redundancy and all of that, because there again, my mind was never on the pension, it was never on redundancy, it was never on leaving Parliament.
And so I think that that four months of coming to terms with everything, still seeing your friends as well, your colleagues, because 251 conservatives lost their seats that day meant that it wasn't such a shock. It wasn't as brutal as it clearly has been in the past. So I've got to say, from my viewpoint, I was really grateful. There were no surprises.
10:19
10:19
Mary Glindon
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Mary Glindon
Thank you, chair. You start to touch on the winding up period. So asking all of you what your experience was of that and how realistic the deadlines were, and arrangements for closing down your parliamentary affairs. Did you feel you had the support you needed, and how did you support your staff, and what do you think? I'm asking you a lot of things. What more can the house or Ipsa do? Generally, what that winding up experience was.
10:20
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I think, first off, I think thanks to Charles and other colleagues in the last Parliament and this and the parliamentary staff, a lot of things that could have been much worse were not, as Nigel has already touched on, some things that I know colleagues who've lost in previous general elections have said it was literally a cliff edge. So I will always be grateful. I think primarily the thing for my staff, the deadlines, it helps to have been pretty sure that you were going to move room, at least because I packed up my office, the arrangements would have been a lot harder if I hadn't, because it comes very, very quick that your past stops working really quick also comes.
It's within days. Within seven days, your past stops working and your car park is removed. So, you know, it's pretty quick. The experience of the winding up period, I think the deadline was, was now I think the three months is made a huge difference because we couldn't get a two month notice period on my office. So I knew all along that if it stuck to two months, I would have to pay for the the other.
And that was common in Bristol that we couldn't get any flexibility. So that was really, really helpful and saved me money. Did I have the support? I think emotional support is different from practical support. I think the practical support will come on to, I think the arrangements for the reception centre, which I do have some comments on. I think my staff have given me various bits of feedback which come under lower questions.
I think three months is realistic. I felt that it may just be me being sensitive, that there was pressure on me to make sure my staff were out the door and no longer getting paid, but that may have just been me just misinterpreting because I wouldn't judge anything on how I was emotionally during that period. We did get, as I said, three of my staff were employed by the end of the weekend, so that was great. But that's because we'd prepared.
We had no help with that from anybody, but I didn't need any. So maybe it doesn't matter. For everyone else. It was harder and I'll come on to that later. But why? It's hard , and I think that. Without what Charles did. Sorry Charles, I feel quite emotional about this. I think without the work that had been done. And I know from comparing notes with previous colleagues who've lost in previous years, I think it would it would have made a devastating experience, probably catastrophic for me and my staff.
And we were in the winning party. That has both pluses and minuses. That's true. The minuses. You people who come up to you in the street and say, oh, congratulations on winning. And I go, no, you voted to get rid of me, remember? And they went, oh no, we thought you'd still be our MP. How does that work? How does that work? Do I have to explain democracy to you? You know, which is comical? Yeah, absolutely comical.
But similarly for my staff, like they were all supposed to be in this happy, shiny thing and they were looking for jobs. But I think the period it gave us with grace was really, really helpful. I think the fact that my office manager had already retired from paid work originally, and I'd brought her back into paid employment, that helped because she wasn't rushing off looking for a job so she could do everything and we could concentrate on the staff. That was my main concern.
I've got some practical suggestions later on. I think if you don't have a warning, I mean, I didn't have warning. It was complicated, but I had enough sense to get myself a private therapist from February of that year. I think without the private therapy, the careers coaching would have been less effective. But without the careers coaching, the therapy would have been less effective. I don't think that getting any sort of therapeutic support through Parliament really works.
At that time. I think it had to be private for a range of reasons, and I would encourage anybody. The reason I'm saying it is because I want people to know it's a good idea anyway.
It's within days. Within seven days, your past stops working and your car park is removed. So, you know, it's pretty quick. The experience of the winding up period, I think the deadline was, was now I think the three months is made a huge difference because we couldn't get a two month notice period on my office. So I knew all along that if it stuck to two months, I would have to pay for the the other.
And that was common in Bristol that we couldn't get any flexibility. So that was really, really helpful and saved me money. Did I have the support? I think emotional support is different from practical support. I think the practical support will come on to, I think the arrangements for the reception centre, which I do have some comments on. I think my staff have given me various bits of feedback which come under lower questions.
I think three months is realistic. I felt that it may just be me being sensitive, that there was pressure on me to make sure my staff were out the door and no longer getting paid, but that may have just been me just misinterpreting because I wouldn't judge anything on how I was emotionally during that period. We did get, as I said, three of my staff were employed by the end of the weekend, so that was great. But that's because we'd prepared.
We had no help with that from anybody, but I didn't need any. So maybe it doesn't matter. For everyone else. It was harder and I'll come on to that later. But why? It's hard , and I think that. Without what Charles did. Sorry Charles, I feel quite emotional about this. I think without the work that had been done. And I know from comparing notes with previous colleagues who've lost in previous years, I think it would it would have made a devastating experience, probably catastrophic for me and my staff.
And we were in the winning party. That has both pluses and minuses. That's true. The minuses. You people who come up to you in the street and say, oh, congratulations on winning. And I go, no, you voted to get rid of me, remember? And they went, oh no, we thought you'd still be our MP. How does that work? How does that work? Do I have to explain democracy to you? You know, which is comical? Yeah, absolutely comical.
But similarly for my staff, like they were all supposed to be in this happy, shiny thing and they were looking for jobs. But I think the period it gave us with grace was really, really helpful. I think the fact that my office manager had already retired from paid work originally, and I'd brought her back into paid employment, that helped because she wasn't rushing off looking for a job so she could do everything and we could concentrate on the staff. That was my main concern.
I've got some practical suggestions later on. I think if you don't have a warning, I mean, I didn't have warning. It was complicated, but I had enough sense to get myself a private therapist from February of that year. I think without the private therapy, the careers coaching would have been less effective. But without the careers coaching, the therapy would have been less effective. I don't think that getting any sort of therapeutic support through Parliament really works.
At that time. I think it had to be private for a range of reasons, and I would encourage anybody. The reason I'm saying it is because I want people to know it's a good idea anyway.
10:24
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I'm going to be very brief. I stand by the statement I made in the House and in the report that you should be planning for your last day in Parliament on your first day in Parliament. This is a vocation, not a career. Most people, not all, will leave here as a result of their electorate deciding they'd prefer to put someone else in office. Some have the luxury of retiring, as I did, but it is extremely, extremely difficult when you leave this place.
The money. For most colleagues. We have some success stories here, but the money for most colleagues runs out long before the jobs arrive. And that's even with the improved package that Ipsa offered. I just think if if this committee, if if the House is going to be a serious employer, and I know we're not employees, it has to look at ongoing career development, professional development, accredited qualifications with all the skills that we have and accredited by a top flight university, we have many in London, we have Kings, we have UCL, we have LSE.
There's also organisations like Deloitte that run the Deloitte Academy, for example, that helps people prepare for non-executive positions. We need to get much more serious about how we prepare colleagues to leave this place, and they need to be responsible to themselves and their families by recognising on day one that there is a time expiry on all of our on all of our presences in Parliament.
The money. For most colleagues. We have some success stories here, but the money for most colleagues runs out long before the jobs arrive. And that's even with the improved package that Ipsa offered. I just think if if this committee, if if the House is going to be a serious employer, and I know we're not employees, it has to look at ongoing career development, professional development, accredited qualifications with all the skills that we have and accredited by a top flight university, we have many in London, we have Kings, we have UCL, we have LSE.
There's also organisations like Deloitte that run the Deloitte Academy, for example, that helps people prepare for non-executive positions. We need to get much more serious about how we prepare colleagues to leave this place, and they need to be responsible to themselves and their families by recognising on day one that there is a time expiry on all of our on all of our presences in Parliament.
10:25
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Can I just say on staff, I mean, the nearest conservative MP to me is probably an hour and a half's drive. So there was no prospect of my staff getting a job doing the same thing. The slight downside of the formula. I remember the excitement in my office when they found it was now four months period rather than two months, and they all assumed that meant they would get four months pay.
I was like, no, that's actually a limit, not a target. That's right. But I mean, because we literally in all my election campaigns, the casework really dries up during the campaign. So there's not much work left for you to have to do other than literally empty the office. And actually a few of them didn't really get on with their job searching because I thought, I've got four months, so I can I can do nothing for the first month.
And then they slowly started to realise actually it was a bit harder than they really expected. So I, and I think some clarity on is that four month period standard in every departing MP can give their staff four months pay regardless if there's any work for them to do. Or can we only do that for some of the staff enough to justify whatever the workload is? Or is it really an exception and we should be really sticking to the notice periods in their contracts? I was never quite clear if I was allowed just to give four months pay.
I mean, I closed my office after two months. I think I paid them all for three as a kind of compromise, because the kind of like redundancy process is a bit strange because they know there's no job, and yet you get your guidance that you've got to have a consultation meeting, you've got to give written notice of a week. So you come down here, you get your advice, you then go back. You issue these template letters with an appointment for a week later, and then you have a meeting where you say, well, there's no job, sorry, there's not much else you could say.
And then you then you have to give the formal redundancy letter. So you've kind of burnt 2 or 3 weeks before you've actually really started a process. And it felt a bit kind of odd, to tell you the truth. I don't know how you fix that with employment law, but I don't know how it felt for a member of staff. Maybe they got three weeks extra pay. So they were they were a bit happy, but it just didn't feel to me very helpful process.
I think that supporting and you're right, the support for staff to get jobs in different sectors. They didn't really have access to CV preparation or interview training like Ex-mps got. That was really helpful. I mean, so maybe there's a bit more we could do on supporting staff. I mean, mine all got jobs before the end of their three months. So it all, it all worked out, but I think it was probably worse for them in some ways. Yeah. Can I
I was like, no, that's actually a limit, not a target. That's right. But I mean, because we literally in all my election campaigns, the casework really dries up during the campaign. So there's not much work left for you to have to do other than literally empty the office. And actually a few of them didn't really get on with their job searching because I thought, I've got four months, so I can I can do nothing for the first month.
And then they slowly started to realise actually it was a bit harder than they really expected. So I, and I think some clarity on is that four month period standard in every departing MP can give their staff four months pay regardless if there's any work for them to do. Or can we only do that for some of the staff enough to justify whatever the workload is? Or is it really an exception and we should be really sticking to the notice periods in their contracts? I was never quite clear if I was allowed just to give four months pay.
I mean, I closed my office after two months. I think I paid them all for three as a kind of compromise, because the kind of like redundancy process is a bit strange because they know there's no job, and yet you get your guidance that you've got to have a consultation meeting, you've got to give written notice of a week. So you come down here, you get your advice, you then go back. You issue these template letters with an appointment for a week later, and then you have a meeting where you say, well, there's no job, sorry, there's not much else you could say.
And then you then you have to give the formal redundancy letter. So you've kind of burnt 2 or 3 weeks before you've actually really started a process. And it felt a bit kind of odd, to tell you the truth. I don't know how you fix that with employment law, but I don't know how it felt for a member of staff. Maybe they got three weeks extra pay. So they were they were a bit happy, but it just didn't feel to me very helpful process.
I think that supporting and you're right, the support for staff to get jobs in different sectors. They didn't really have access to CV preparation or interview training like Ex-mps got. That was really helpful. I mean, so maybe there's a bit more we could do on supporting staff. I mean, mine all got jobs before the end of their three months. So it all, it all worked out, but I think it was probably worse for them in some ways. Yeah. Can I
10:28
Bob Blackman
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Bob Blackman
back up the other? Nigel has just said because I felt a bit guilty about my staff. Me getting a P 45 at 66 is different to an MP getting a P 45 at 36, particularly if they've got two kids, so and a mortgage and all that sort of stuff. So it's very different. I didn't have a mortgage, so I think all the cushion that's been put in for members is absolutely superb. The staff don't get that.
And Nigel is right. It's sort of suggested that unless you've got meaningful work for them, then you should really dismiss them immediately. Well the possibility of some of the staff when two, five, one Tories all lose, right. You've got three staff, let's say on average. Well, that's, you know, 600 people chasing 30 jobs maybe. And so the reality for them is brutal. And just as you know, MPs, I don't know if you remember the time when MPs could push in front of their staff to grab a cup of coffee and all that sort of stuff.
Well, that was soon elbowed out and me being treated preferentially to my staff is completely wrong. Yeah. And I think that they should be on exactly the same place as me. They, by dint of the job, tend to be in their 20s, maybe early 30s, and they deserve exactly the same sort of cushion they my staff didn't expect to lose. So, you know, it was all right for me. I didn't go into the jobs market like they did, but.
And some of them must have found it very, very difficult indeed. So the one emphasis now I would go to is look at the people that that are with us. I know out in the country people, we're not going to get too many violins playing by the the stories we're telling. I understand that, but maybe we'll get a few violins for our staff. Yeah, the average duration. And Charles is right. It's not a career.
It could end at any time. I looked at it a few years ago and the average is about eight years. Well, we know averages hide all sorts of extremes. And I was an MP for 32 years. There will be people who got elected in 2024 who will be getting their P 45 at the next general election. A lot of them, if the opinion polls are to be believed, and it could be a mixture like Thangam was saying that some people that you expected to stay, like the MP for Blackburn, that has been Labour for generations.
I never expected that to be anything other than Labour. I was shocked when I got the result from Blackburn, and so that MP would certainly not have been expecting what she was faced with.
And Nigel is right. It's sort of suggested that unless you've got meaningful work for them, then you should really dismiss them immediately. Well the possibility of some of the staff when two, five, one Tories all lose, right. You've got three staff, let's say on average. Well, that's, you know, 600 people chasing 30 jobs maybe. And so the reality for them is brutal. And just as you know, MPs, I don't know if you remember the time when MPs could push in front of their staff to grab a cup of coffee and all that sort of stuff.
Well, that was soon elbowed out and me being treated preferentially to my staff is completely wrong. Yeah. And I think that they should be on exactly the same place as me. They, by dint of the job, tend to be in their 20s, maybe early 30s, and they deserve exactly the same sort of cushion they my staff didn't expect to lose. So, you know, it was all right for me. I didn't go into the jobs market like they did, but.
And some of them must have found it very, very difficult indeed. So the one emphasis now I would go to is look at the people that that are with us. I know out in the country people, we're not going to get too many violins playing by the the stories we're telling. I understand that, but maybe we'll get a few violins for our staff. Yeah, the average duration. And Charles is right. It's not a career.
It could end at any time. I looked at it a few years ago and the average is about eight years. Well, we know averages hide all sorts of extremes. And I was an MP for 32 years. There will be people who got elected in 2024 who will be getting their P 45 at the next general election. A lot of them, if the opinion polls are to be believed, and it could be a mixture like Thangam was saying that some people that you expected to stay, like the MP for Blackburn, that has been Labour for generations.
I never expected that to be anything other than Labour. I was shocked when I got the result from Blackburn, and so that MP would certainly not have been expecting what she was faced with.
10:30
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
There's one more reason why a soft landing for staff matters is that you don't want all your staff resigning six months before an election, then you can't actually do your job and they can read the opinion polls as well as MPs do. So if they think I. I had one member of staff resign during the election campaign, which was very upset about it. I just can't risk, you know, I can't risk you losing and not having a job and being able to pay my rent.
So I've I've found an offer. I've got to take it. I mean, so I think I think there is a a benefit for the workings of Parliament that parliamentary staff know that they've got a soft landing in case something goes wrong.
So I've I've found an offer. I've got to take it. I mean, so I think I think there is a a benefit for the workings of Parliament that parliamentary staff know that they've got a soft landing in case something goes wrong.
10:31
10:31
Kirsteen Sullivan
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Kirsteen Sullivan
Just following on from those points that have just been made, how clear was the guidance that you received from the house, from Ipsen, from your own political parties, about the steps that you and your staff had to take during dissolution and then winding up. Did you have all the clarity that you needed, or were there some.
10:31
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
Really hard to answer this question? I mean, I've been through dissolution before, so I did at least understand dissolution. Winding up is just so hard to comment on from my memory, which could be honestly, really faulty. But I've tried to triangulate it with my office. Former office manager. I think the House guidance was good. I think the Ipsa guidance, by and large was good. There were things which, like I said, could be in my own head about the pressure, which now I'm hearing from the Nigel's.
Actually, it wasn't imaginary. It was that if you haven't got anything for them to do, we can't pay them well, but they. So they don't get a redundancy package and they certainly don't get the careers advice. Now, the guidance wasn't clear on that to me, but I think that's a different question. I think my staff, my office manager, there were various practical things that she was more than capable of doing.
She was a highly experienced woman who'd worked in a multinational company as a very senior manager. So this was a doddle to her. I think she her comment was she wasn't sure that everyone would have found it a doddle, and also that there was it would have been useful to have things like a clear toolkit for the office managers. There was good guidance, but something that was really clear about how do you destroy data? What data did you destroy? Is there a way of recycling the computers? Have we made sure all your computers are registered before dissolution or in dissolution? Can they carry on closing doing casework to close things down during dissolution? There's a bit of that.
I think . My office manager said she would have appreciated.
Actually, it wasn't imaginary. It was that if you haven't got anything for them to do, we can't pay them well, but they. So they don't get a redundancy package and they certainly don't get the careers advice. Now, the guidance wasn't clear on that to me, but I think that's a different question. I think my staff, my office manager, there were various practical things that she was more than capable of doing.
She was a highly experienced woman who'd worked in a multinational company as a very senior manager. So this was a doddle to her. I think she her comment was she wasn't sure that everyone would have found it a doddle, and also that there was it would have been useful to have things like a clear toolkit for the office managers. There was good guidance, but something that was really clear about how do you destroy data? What data did you destroy? Is there a way of recycling the computers? Have we made sure all your computers are registered before dissolution or in dissolution? Can they carry on closing doing casework to close things down during dissolution? There's a bit of that.
I think . My office manager said she would have appreciated.
10:33
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I mean, I think those things there were there was assistance and staff were really helpful. Parliamentary staff were really helpful. So it's definitely not a criticism. I think Sheila's point, my my office manager's point was really that it could be something really, really clear, particularly about casework. I still have former constituents even now. I've got one this morning who's emailed me about his case notes, and I don't know how many times I've got to say to this guy, I don't have them, and for good reason, but a way of resolving some of those open, open cases sometime in dissolution might have helped.
I think more that it helps the constituents probably wouldn't make any difference to me, and probably that it helps my my former staff. But I think the guidance was mostly my memory is pretty good for me.
I think more that it helps the constituents probably wouldn't make any difference to me, and probably that it helps my my former staff. But I think the guidance was mostly my memory is pretty good for me.
10:34
10:34
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I thought the guidance was was really useful. The thing that distressed me the most was seeing my seven year old IBM printer being hauled off by the House of Commons to be put into a skip somewhere or landfill. I don't understand why I couldn't be given the option to buy something that could print loads of pieces of paper in CVS. Yeah, I think the two things that the house did really well, I didn't access it, but I've heard from colleagues was outplacement, they did outplacement advice.
They funded that. And I hope that continues. And my own party, sorry, my own party did some career coaching through Mark Prisk. He could reach 30 colleagues. That's what we had funding for. But I don't know if you're going to take evidence from Mark or the outplacement company, but I think they did some really useful work, and it would be, I think the committee might find it helpful to know how that went and some of the feedback they got.
They funded that. And I hope that continues. And my own party, sorry, my own party did some career coaching through Mark Prisk. He could reach 30 colleagues. That's what we had funding for. But I don't know if you're going to take evidence from Mark or the outplacement company, but I think they did some really useful work, and it would be, I think the committee might find it helpful to know how that went and some of the feedback they got.
10:35
10:35
10:35
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
Disposal of the kit is a big deal because it really annoyed us that we could tell they're being taken off us, but they're going to be put in a skip. Yeah. And, and the way my iPad was removed from me was particularly unnecessarily humiliating. And I did say you just put it in skip, though. Why are we doing this? I'd buy it. And yet you're humiliating me. So it was okay.
and it was a. Waste
and it was a. Waste
10:35
10:35
10:35
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
I think the guidance is very good. I mean, I came down for the the sessions on the Monday morning. I think it was it's dealing with the staff and getting the legal stuff right is the challenge because you then I remember they gave me an A3 piece of paper with the notice periods and the redundancy pay and whatever else on. And he then had to transcribe into a standard letter and get the right one for the right person.
And then they worked out if you gave them two months notice, they'd crossed another year of service and you had to go and change all the numbers. So there was stuff around the employment. I wonder whether there's a way they could just give you the pack of letters in reality, so you've not got the risk of messing those up. There was no issue for me. There was not really any legal dispute over it.
But you could see a situation where you you slightly mess that up and you you create a problem. But the rest of it I think was fine. The IT collection, I booked it nicely earlier than on the day. They didn't turn up and they rang and said, yeah, we've got another one in the south. So the driver thought he'd go there first and miss the Friday traffic. Well, my office is closing at lunchtime. I'll leave it on the street outside if you want.
I mean, that was it's things like that were a bit aggravating more than more than the problem. I think actually the the support for what you need to do by when worked pretty well. Even the Ipsa stuff was I think they returned me some papers with typos at one stage or something and things like that. But other than that it was pretty smooth.
And then they worked out if you gave them two months notice, they'd crossed another year of service and you had to go and change all the numbers. So there was stuff around the employment. I wonder whether there's a way they could just give you the pack of letters in reality, so you've not got the risk of messing those up. There was no issue for me. There was not really any legal dispute over it.
But you could see a situation where you you slightly mess that up and you you create a problem. But the rest of it I think was fine. The IT collection, I booked it nicely earlier than on the day. They didn't turn up and they rang and said, yeah, we've got another one in the south. So the driver thought he'd go there first and miss the Friday traffic. Well, my office is closing at lunchtime. I'll leave it on the street outside if you want.
I mean, that was it's things like that were a bit aggravating more than more than the problem. I think actually the the support for what you need to do by when worked pretty well. Even the Ipsa stuff was I think they returned me some papers with typos at one stage or something and things like that. But other than that it was pretty smooth.
10:37
Bob Blackman
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Bob Blackman
Richmond House had everything sorted. When I went in with a couple of my staff, they were appropriately somber and apologetic and sympathetic, handkerchiefs on hand and all that. I feel as if if Heaven had the same sort of arrangement when the deceased come that this is, they'd roughly base it on the model that I saw in in Richmond House. So I thought everything was explained to me. You had opportunities to ask all sorts of questions.
Yeah. Listen, you've got to get out of your office because you've got 650 other people who are now eager and keen to establish themselves. You've got to lose your car parking space. Otherwise, where are they going to park? So you understand the urgency of all of that. But everything else, the cliff edge thing that Charles and his colleagues have helped bring about has been absolutely superb. Now, the one thing other than all the stuff that the others have mentioned, I would suggest is the email.
Losing your parliamentary email is a bit brutal to say the least. People don't know how to get in touch with you, and my one suggestion is that you then shunt everything over to a new email address like [email protected], something like that. Then everybody will know if they need to get in touch with you, that there is a format and they can just put the word X in front of MP because it is that that is the cliff edge.
I can tell you now you told oh yeah, transfer everything over and all that sort of stuff. Well you know it's you don't get through it all. If you think after 32 years how many emails were floating around. And I just think it would be a lot easier. And also for MPs to get in touch with other ex-mps that that is easy too. So that's the one solid suggestion I'm going to make to you.
Yeah. Listen, you've got to get out of your office because you've got 650 other people who are now eager and keen to establish themselves. You've got to lose your car parking space. Otherwise, where are they going to park? So you understand the urgency of all of that. But everything else, the cliff edge thing that Charles and his colleagues have helped bring about has been absolutely superb. Now, the one thing other than all the stuff that the others have mentioned, I would suggest is the email.
Losing your parliamentary email is a bit brutal to say the least. People don't know how to get in touch with you, and my one suggestion is that you then shunt everything over to a new email address like [email protected], something like that. Then everybody will know if they need to get in touch with you, that there is a format and they can just put the word X in front of MP because it is that that is the cliff edge.
I can tell you now you told oh yeah, transfer everything over and all that sort of stuff. Well you know it's you don't get through it all. If you think after 32 years how many emails were floating around. And I just think it would be a lot easier. And also for MPs to get in touch with other ex-mps that that is easy too. So that's the one solid suggestion I'm going to make to you.
10:39
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
Thank you. Thank you very much for being here today and giving us your insight. I mean, I think it's slightly terrifying for some of us and probably for staff as well who are watching this as well. So yeah, I think that's really helpful. I think we do need to be mindful that there are other people in the country who lose their jobs at a moment's notice. I would think about Jaguar Land Rover, for example, and employees there.
So we do need to remember that, you know, there are other staff there. But equally, it's a very it is a very special situation here in terms of handing over to other to incoming MPs. One of the things that I know I saw that probably didn't work particularly smoothly for me as an incoming MP was casework handover. But can you tell me. I understand that all former members were offered advice on handing over casework within the restrictions of data, confidence management and confidentiality.
Do you feel that this worked well for you? I mean, it may well have worked very well for you, and is there anything else that you would have benefited from when you're handing that over?
So we do need to remember that, you know, there are other staff there. But equally, it's a very it is a very special situation here in terms of handing over to other to incoming MPs. One of the things that I know I saw that probably didn't work particularly smoothly for me as an incoming MP was casework handover. But can you tell me. I understand that all former members were offered advice on handing over casework within the restrictions of data, confidence management and confidentiality.
Do you feel that this worked well for you? I mean, it may well have worked very well for you, and is there anything else that you would have benefited from when you're handing that over?
10:40
Bob Blackman
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Bob Blackman
I got my ex MP, sorry I was the ex MP. I got the my successor in as soon as she arrived and sat down with her and offered everything that she wanted, I was more than happy to give her anything. Maybe the the SMP email thing might help as well if she needed to get in touch with me on any casework, but the door was absolutely wide open and still happens to be.
If she needs to get in touch on any issue. . Anyone else.
If she needs to get in touch on any issue. . Anyone else.
10:40
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
So as I said, by the time we got to polling day, most casework had been dealt with. There were a few outstanding replies that came in and we and we dealt with. There were some cases where we went back to the constituent and said, do you want us to send it back to you, or do you want to give us consent to send it to the new MP? And generally people were quite happy for it to be handed over, but there weren't that many cases.
It's it's not that easy when you've just lost and your staff are being made redundant for them to be in touch with the people who are replacing them in the job they quite liked. It's not a natural situation. So we we did it. It worked pretty well, but it wasn't a large number of cases we actually had to hand over.
It's it's not that easy when you've just lost and your staff are being made redundant for them to be in touch with the people who are replacing them in the job they quite liked. It's not a natural situation. So we we did it. It worked pretty well, but it wasn't a large number of cases we actually had to hand over.
10:41
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
Yeah. So there were, I think two, a few, not many long running cases that I briefed my successor on who worked for me when he was 16 or 17 on work placement in my office, which made me feel very old. But I think mostly when the election was called, you obviously you're getting legacy cases coming in from ministerial offices that you just pass back to the constituent. And we did actually get because our constituents don't appreciate that when a general election is called, you cease to be a member of Parliament.
So as far as my constituents were concerned, I was a member of Parliament for Broxbourne until the point my successor was was elected and then for a few weeks afterwards. So we very politely suggested that they wait a few weeks unless it was really, really urgent. And then I, I, we did some triage, but we wait a few weeks and then get in touch with whoever my successor is. And I said, I'm sure he or she will be delighted to hear from you.
And that is what they did.
So as far as my constituents were concerned, I was a member of Parliament for Broxbourne until the point my successor was was elected and then for a few weeks afterwards. So we very politely suggested that they wait a few weeks unless it was really, really urgent. And then I, I, we did some triage, but we wait a few weeks and then get in touch with whoever my successor is. And I said, I'm sure he or she will be delighted to hear from you.
And that is what they did.
10:42
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I've probably not got anything much to add. I think that incoming MPs who've beaten another MP probably aren't aware that there isn't any casework, that anyone's going to die over it not being handed over that will have been dealt with. And therefore the assumption should be you start from scratch. My constituents, similar to others, we'd worked really hard to make sure things were resolved, and I'm not sure whether the incoming MP in our case understood that, I don't know, but we also provided the information about how they could get in touch with the incoming MP.
I think that's adequate. The confidentiality guidelines, I think we had some good support on that. I would have really been grateful for some advice on how to dispose of confidential waste. Although we worked it out, you know, it was fine and we worked out what to say to the constituents and I think we had some help with that.
I think that's adequate. The confidentiality guidelines, I think we had some good support on that. I would have really been grateful for some advice on how to dispose of confidential waste. Although we worked it out, you know, it was fine and we worked out what to say to the constituents and I think we had some help with that.
10:43
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Can I just answer Marie's observations because I, I was probably about as tight with public money as I. So I agree, actually, we shouldn't put MPs in a different place to where a good employer would put people. So that would be my default situation. I think a good employer, when they're making people redundant, does try and support them into the next stage of their lives. I think I think the support MPs got with terms of CVS and interview prep and all that stuff, I think a good employer would do.
I think there is a secondary point, though, that if you want to attract the brightest and the best to be MPs, if you said to me now actually look back to when you were 35, if you'd known you'd get married and have two kids and you'd be out of work at 50, would you take that risk? I think it's quite difficult to actually think in that situation. It's a very good idea. So I think actually, if you do want Parliament to function, you want the best people here actually showing there is actually a soft landing that, you know, you won't struggle to pay your mortgage, you will actually be able to get out of it.
I think actually is really important. I think if you, if you make it too tight and play too much to the Taxpayers Alliance lobby on this, I think actually it will do real damage. And I say that to somebody, you know, who said to you, be clear whether you mean to give all staff four months pay when they've got one month notice, what do you really mean? Because I think that is a challenge. Why are we paying people far more than they were legally entitled to? We should think that through, but I'd just be cautious that playing to that lobby is quite, quite dangerous and will do damage.
I think there is a secondary point, though, that if you want to attract the brightest and the best to be MPs, if you said to me now actually look back to when you were 35, if you'd known you'd get married and have two kids and you'd be out of work at 50, would you take that risk? I think it's quite difficult to actually think in that situation. It's a very good idea. So I think actually, if you do want Parliament to function, you want the best people here actually showing there is actually a soft landing that, you know, you won't struggle to pay your mortgage, you will actually be able to get out of it.
I think actually is really important. I think if you, if you make it too tight and play too much to the Taxpayers Alliance lobby on this, I think actually it will do real damage. And I say that to somebody, you know, who said to you, be clear whether you mean to give all staff four months pay when they've got one month notice, what do you really mean? Because I think that is a challenge. Why are we paying people far more than they were legally entitled to? We should think that through, but I'd just be cautious that playing to that lobby is quite, quite dangerous and will do damage.
10:45
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I'm just trying to I just I'd just like to dig into that a little bit, just because I know that there will be people. This is a public session and there will be people sitting watching this who said, well, hang on a minute, I just lost my job. I had no notice. You know, I went into this, you know, knowing that it might not be a job for life, but I probably expected that might have a bit longer.
And it was a bit of a shock to me. And probably I had even less notice because something suddenly happened. And yet, and yet, I mean absolutely no disrespect to the House staff. And I completely agree with you. I mean, I think, you know, I'd love to be able to pay my staff more. They work incredibly long hours. You know, it is run by very, you know, by young people who do a lot of the time. I know some people have more experienced staff, but that's not always the case because actually we don't pay them enough to have really experienced staff a lot of the time.
So, you know, a huge respect for what they do. But I just want to. So it's just about getting that balance right between, you know, what the rest of the country experience is and what MPs experience. And we do have to make sure that an MP staff experience, we do need to make sure we get that that balance. Absolutely. Right. So in terms of what we can offer them along the way to support and career progression and development and stuff.
And we've talked before about the potential for, you know, some staff to be hired to be employed by the House so that they can move around a bit more and have that security a bit more. And I wonder what you might think about that as.
And it was a bit of a shock to me. And probably I had even less notice because something suddenly happened. And yet, and yet, I mean absolutely no disrespect to the House staff. And I completely agree with you. I mean, I think, you know, I'd love to be able to pay my staff more. They work incredibly long hours. You know, it is run by very, you know, by young people who do a lot of the time. I know some people have more experienced staff, but that's not always the case because actually we don't pay them enough to have really experienced staff a lot of the time.
So, you know, a huge respect for what they do. But I just want to. So it's just about getting that balance right between, you know, what the rest of the country experience is and what MPs experience. And we do have to make sure that an MP staff experience, we do need to make sure we get that that balance. Absolutely. Right. So in terms of what we can offer them along the way to support and career progression and development and stuff.
And we've talked before about the potential for, you know, some staff to be hired to be employed by the House so that they can move around a bit more and have that security a bit more. And I wonder what you might think about that as.
10:46
Bob Blackman
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Bob Blackman
Funny enough, Sir Charles Walker was a former staffer of mine, and not only did I not put him off from becoming a staffer, he then became a member of Parliament and did much better than I did. So yeah, I'm with Nigel on and I do appreciate where you're coming from and a lot of people out there, as I said, there's no going to be no violins for the MPs, but hopefully they will have for some of our staff who they still face that cliff edge, like my staff never thought I was going to lose my seat.
And so and I get Nigel's point too, that you do want to attract people to come and do the work, good people to come and do the work for MPs. And if we're going to get our P45S, then I don't see why. And we're being. And I think what's happening with the changes that have happened since the elections in the past should be reflected on the staff as well. Why should they be treated any differently to the members of Parliament? And I think A really would stress that if we want the very best working here and they're going to be booted out rather suddenly and publicly in the way that it's done, and they've got really no prospects of getting another job within politics, then I would say they should be exactly treated in exactly the same way.
And so and I get Nigel's point too, that you do want to attract people to come and do the work, good people to come and do the work for MPs. And if we're going to get our P45S, then I don't see why. And we're being. And I think what's happening with the changes that have happened since the elections in the past should be reflected on the staff as well. Why should they be treated any differently to the members of Parliament? And I think A really would stress that if we want the very best working here and they're going to be booted out rather suddenly and publicly in the way that it's done, and they've got really no prospects of getting another job within politics, then I would say they should be exactly treated in exactly the same way.
10:47
10:48
Mary Glindon
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Mary Glindon
Yes, this one seems a bit cruel after what we've we've heard. And we. Because what we learned during the inquiry was that new members would appreciate a member body in addition to a House staff body . And just listen to what your situations. When you actually came, you know, lost, lost your seats or retired, would you have been willing to return to Parliament to support new member and getting to grips with Parliament life and offering them advice on their office? And how have you got any thoughts on how such an offer could work or not work in practice?
10:48
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I'll answer that. Absolutely not. We'd left Parliament. I mean, the last thing that Lewis Cocking, my successor wanted to see was me running around the House of Commons. I mean, you know, we have an election, people are defeated, they leave, new people come in. And the other thing is this. There's a general view. I did a lot of things for a lot of people for no money after I left this place.
Luckily, I could take my pension early at great cost to myself and my family because it is very difficult to get a job. And let me just say, if you want better MPs, treat MPs better. But the idea I would come back to the House of Commons and do anything for free is nonsense. I mean, it's just nonsense. I'm sorry, but I mean, it is, it is, it is, it is a it is a cruel question.
It is incredible. I, I really advise all of you don't lose your seat because no matter how good you think you are, you're not that good. Nigel here did very well. But I have many former colleagues still struggling to find meaningful work. So if you want better MPs, treat MPs better.
Luckily, I could take my pension early at great cost to myself and my family because it is very difficult to get a job. And let me just say, if you want better MPs, treat MPs better. But the idea I would come back to the House of Commons and do anything for free is nonsense. I mean, it's just nonsense. I'm sorry, but I mean, it is, it is, it is, it is a it is a cruel question.
It is incredible. I, I really advise all of you don't lose your seat because no matter how good you think you are, you're not that good. Nigel here did very well. But I have many former colleagues still struggling to find meaningful work. So if you want better MPs, treat MPs better.
10:50
10:50
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I think the new MPs, especially those in the winning party, I don't think they wanted to see us for losers. I think we were seen as contagious. And it's pretty it's pretty humiliating. Anyway, coming in on the Monday morning, everyone else is happy and shiny. I also think, and this is going to sound like tough love. Learn the job, learn the job. Just just get skills.
If you don't know how to do a bill, learn how to do a bill. Go on a bill committee. If you don't know where your office is, ask a doorkeeper. I think you have been elected as MPs to be leaders, and I really, really I'm. This is not an old mill owner thing. It's a. You've been elected to be a leader. You need a buddy from an old MP who's trying to get a job. Learn your job.
There are ways to learn the job of being an MP, and part of it comes with, I think, a certain amount of humility, recognizing that you've got a lot to learn. And second, as Charles said, that you are also going to lose eventually. And third of all, just making yourself work harder, like learn the skills, learn your way around Parliament. The rest, you know, just learn. Learn what it takes. And most of. Us
If you don't know how to do a bill, learn how to do a bill. Go on a bill committee. If you don't know where your office is, ask a doorkeeper. I think you have been elected as MPs to be leaders, and I really, really I'm. This is not an old mill owner thing. It's a. You've been elected to be a leader. You need a buddy from an old MP who's trying to get a job. Learn your job.
There are ways to learn the job of being an MP, and part of it comes with, I think, a certain amount of humility, recognizing that you've got a lot to learn. And second, as Charles said, that you are also going to lose eventually. And third of all, just making yourself work harder, like learn the skills, learn your way around Parliament. The rest, you know, just learn. Learn what it takes. And most of. Us
10:51
10:51
10:51
10:51
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I mean, I have to say, are you kidding? Is what I wrote down here. I was a 58 year old unemployed woman, and you have no idea. There is no such thing as an MP. I am not asking for sympathy. No, I do not feel sorry for myself. I served and I served in a democracy. I'm very proud of that. But you actually do have to pay your bills.
So you know. No. I hope we've made ourselves clear. Yeah.
So you know. No. I hope we've made ourselves clear. Yeah.
10:51
Bambos Charalambous
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Bambos Charalambous
So my question is about career transition. So how prepared were you for working life beyond Parliament? And I know some of you have touched on that. Did you use the the Career Transition Service and how did you find it? And also should how important was the emotional support as well? I know Fang touched on that in being part of the career transition.
10:52
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I think the two things are separate. I use the career transition service, and there wasn't a single day that I didn't thank Charles Walker mentally, because it is a valuable investment in making use of the skills we have gained. I would not see it as anything else other than this is useful to the world, because some of us were able to retire, some of us were not. Some of us are going to have to work for another 15 years, and rightly so, and wants to make use of our skills and needed a bit of technical help wiggling around thinking what are my skills? How do I work them? Because you cannot start looking for jobs.
Maybe some did, but you really shouldn't be looking for a job until after you lose. And yes, I think that you know that there there are ways in which careers transition service. I definitely think it would be great if it was offered to our staff because I did feel quite guilty. I still use my careers transition person. I pay her privately. I don't think it was for emotional support. I think it's really important. The two things are separate.
I personally, I was glad that I paid for my own private therapy. Others may think that ought to be provided by a house services I personally don't. I think it's better to have. I would have liked a bit of advice from the house services on how to get a private therapist, but my therapist was invaluable to make the career service work and vice versa. It was brilliant.
Maybe some did, but you really shouldn't be looking for a job until after you lose. And yes, I think that you know that there there are ways in which careers transition service. I definitely think it would be great if it was offered to our staff because I did feel quite guilty. I still use my careers transition person. I pay her privately. I don't think it was for emotional support. I think it's really important. The two things are separate.
I personally, I was glad that I paid for my own private therapy. Others may think that ought to be provided by a house services I personally don't. I think it's better to have. I would have liked a bit of advice from the house services on how to get a private therapist, but my therapist was invaluable to make the career service work and vice versa. It was brilliant.
10:53
10:53
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10:54
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
I would agree with everything everyone has just said. I think the one thing was location. And it may again, this may just be been my mood and it may again, because I was a losing MP when in my. My party had won. But walking in, seeing a gazillion new shiny, excited MPs all going up to the bright sparkly rooms of PCH and we were escorted down to a basement. Once you got to the basement, I think the service was excellent.
Maybe it wasn't a basement, it just felt like a basement. But the service was excellent, the staff were brilliant and it was like speed dating, but in a least bad way.
Maybe it wasn't a basement, it just felt like a basement. But the service was excellent, the staff were brilliant and it was like speed dating, but in a least bad way.
10:55
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10:55
Marie Goldman
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Marie Goldman
Jobs in the constituency staff. Think you missed this bit, Bob? My constituency staff, we'd prepared early on, so we got them jobs fairly quickly. Me and my office manager, my office manager was retired and had come out of retirement to work for me anyway, so that was fine. My parliamentary staff, it was harder. Weirdly, you'd think in an incoming Labour government it would have been easier. Actually wasn't weirdly that easy, but partly because two of my staff weren't working for the taxpayer.
They were working for the Labour Party because they were my advisors. That was not optimal, suboptimal, shall we say. But I've dealt with it. But suboptimal, I think, is what I'd put on record, how they were treated.
They were working for the Labour Party because they were my advisors. That was not optimal, suboptimal, shall we say. But I've dealt with it. But suboptimal, I think, is what I'd put on record, how they were treated.
10:56
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
My staff got jobs very. Yes, our staff have hugely transferable skills without the baggage of having been a member of Parliament. A member of Parliament is is a great barrier to future employment. They don't carry that baggage. It was difficult for them, but they really were very talented people and they were snapped up pretty quickly. Yeah.
10:57
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah, my staff, all our jobs within the three months after the election. References are an interesting one because Ipsa will give a reference which says they worked for Nigel Mills for 2022 to 2024 in role caseworker. But then if an employer wants any more than that, they've got to email my personal email address, which doesn't feel right. I gave them all a kind of signed headed paper letter reference, but I'm not sure if I was meant to use the Headed paper after polling day, but I kind of dated it polling day or something to.
But how you handle that sort of situation is quite fiddly because the. Obviously the MP email doesn't work anymore, so they can only get to you via a personal one.
But how you handle that sort of situation is quite fiddly because the. Obviously the MP email doesn't work anymore, so they can only get to you via a personal one.
10:57
Bob Blackman
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Bob Blackman
Fortunately, one had left me just before the election, a bit like we've heard before and joined the Navy. So he was very apologetic. He said, I know there's an election coming. And I said, no, you you've got a lifetime opportunity here. Go and join the Navy. So he did, fortunately, but I'm still in touch with the others. But I remember looking across at them doing this speed dating exercise and they were as white.
In fact, they were whiter than I was. So I knew that they they were concerned about, you know, what are they going to do next? Fortunately, as I understand it, they've all got employment outside of the house.
In fact, they were whiter than I was. So I knew that they they were concerned about, you know, what are they going to do next? Fortunately, as I understand it, they've all got employment outside of the house.