The National Health Service
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
Madam Deputy Speaker, you were in the Chair when I was granted an Adjournment debate by Mr Speaker on a subject which I will discuss again today. I was a patient at the time and I came out of hospital to speak.
I have a very long involvement with the health service. I sat on a royal commission on the NHS, having been appointed by Barbara Castle 40 years ago. For me, it is incredible, 40 years on, to still hear the same arguments over and over again. I wish the Health Secretary was in his place. I enjoyed writing a report on hospital complaints in England for the Department of Health when David Cameron was Prime Minister. I was very much hoping to get assurances today that the recommendations we made then have all been acted on. I do not believe that they have been.
I was also on the Welsh hospital board many years ago with Aneurin Bevan’s sister. It is quite useful to have people in this place who are a bit older, who have long memories and who can remember what has been said and done and promised. I remember going to the United States, talking to health professionals there and realising that two thirds of all personal bankruptcies in the US were because of inadequate health insurance. I think that that was still the case when I last checked. I very much hope that that does not become the norm in this country.
As a recent patient, I would like to thank everybody in the English health service and the Welsh health service for their care, because I would not be here today were it not for them.
Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)
Would my right hon. Friend like to pay tribute to the NHS in Wales? As my constituency neighbour, I am sure she appreciates all the good work done in Wales.
Ann Clwyd
I have been a critic of the health service in Wales, as my colleagues know, but I am also an admirer of much of the good work it carries out, particularly in my hon. Friend’s constituency at the Prince Charles hospital in Merthyr Tydfil and at University Hospital Llandough in Cardiff, where I apparently almost died in August. I am grateful to be alive, and I thank all the doctors and nurses involved.
Over 200,000 people in Britain suffer from venous leg ulcers, a form of chronic wound. It is highly painful, I can tell you, and socially isolating. For most, treatment involves managing the symptom—the ulcer—rather than addressing the underlying cause, yet proven surgical interventions are available to treat this underlying condition. Clinical guidance is comprehensive, but the evidence shows that local-level implementation is extremely patchy.
The UK spends between £940 million and £1.3 billion every year managing venous leg ulcers. Most of that comes from the need for community nurse visits to support patients in managing their conditions. Seventy-five per cent. of costs alone can be attributed to community nursing, placing a huge strain on community care, yet evidence shows that where clinically appropriate, a surgical intervention approach is cost-neutral in year one, and that is what I would like to hear about from the Secretary of State.
While early intervention incurs high initial costs, these are quickly offset by lower one-year community nursing costs. The issue is that most cases are simply never referred to a specialist vascular service. Seventy-five per cent. of venous leg ulcers do not receive a comprehensive vascular assessment, as enshrined in National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidance. Sixty-four per cent. of clinical commissioning groups’ commissioning policies were found to be non-compliant with NICE guidelines for the treatment of the problems responsible for venous leg ulcers.
The opportunity to provide cost-neutral treatment, proven to heal ulcers faster and help to prevent recurrence, is missed, causing unnecessary pain and suffering for thousands. I can tell the House that it is the most painful thing that has ever happened to me. I know many, many people who are living in this pain now. How can we ensure that primary and secondary care providers, commissioners and local authorities are brought together, made aware of the benefits and able to deliver early intervention in venous leg ulcers? Quite simply, it will save NHS funds and save the suffering of so many people.
Lower Limb Wound Care
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
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Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not normally sit when I speak in this place, but half an hour ago I was in a hospital bed on the 12th floor of St Thomas’s when I heard that this debate was coming early, rather than later. There was a big rush to get me here, and there are very good doctors and nurses in the Gallery who helped me to get here, because I thought it was tremendously important to speak. I had secured this debate, for which I am very grateful, and I particularly wanted to talk on this subject. I was pleased to get it before the recess, and I was not going to miss it for anything. After we finish, I shall be returning, I hope, to the 12th floor of St Thomas’s and to very good care.
The subject of this debate was brought to my attention by Lord Hunt, our colleague in the House of Lords, where they had a debate not long ago about what plans the Government have to develop a strategy for improving the standards of wound care in the NHS. As somebody who needs wound care right at this moment, I know what a big subject it is. I did not know before—I was totally ignorant—but I have discovered what a challenging subject it is for so many people.
As a patient myself, I can talk about the subject with some feeling. I have to say that it is the most painful thing I have ever come across, and I had no idea that people suffered this kind of pain. A week ago, when I had to be taken to a local hospital in Merthyr Tydfil, I was asked by an ambulance driver what level of pain I was in, on a scale of one to 10, and I said, “Nine.” I do not usually exaggerate; it was that painful. I am grateful to everybody who has helped me, and I want to make sure that the service develops and people get all the help they need in such circumstances.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I congratulate the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) on securing the debate. She often features in Adjournment debates in this House. We are very pleased to see her in her place, and we thank her for all that she does. Does she agree that many people fear that the NHS neglects leg ulcers and the required treatment is not being given? The latest statistics, according to Dr Adderley’s speech at the Health Service Journal patient safety congress, show that leg ulcers account for 40% of chronic wounds but only 7% of the chronic wounds that are treated. There is quite clearly an anomaly.
Ann Clwyd
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making my speech for me. I am sure we will be in total agreement as my speech develops.
Some interesting points were made during the debate in the other place, including the point that wound care is a massive challenge to the NHS, but it currently lacks priority, investment and direction. I want to push the Government, if they need pushing, on the need for urgent action and the development of a strategy across care providers to improve the standard of wound care.
A staggering 2 million patients are treated for wounds every year, at a cost of more than £5 billion and rising. While 60% of all wounds heal within a year, a huge resource has to be committed to managing untreated wounds. The NHS response is very variable. Healing takes far too long; diagnosis is not good enough; and inadequate commissioning of services by clinical commissioning groups compounds the problem, with under-trained staff and a lack of suitable dressings and bandages.
There has also been a very worrying drop in the number of district nurses, whose role in ensuring safe and effective wound care in the community is crucial. I was shocked when I talked to a friend in Cardiff about the problem of putting on surgical stockings, and her experience highlights the need for district nurses. My friend had had a serious operation, and she could not bend to pull on the stockings. I asked her what she did, because she is a widow who lives on her own. She said, “I go out in the street and ask somebody to help me.” I am sure that people are very ready to help, but no one should be in that situation. I think we would all agree that the drop in the number of district nurses is very worrying.
I am told that, ideally, 70% of venous leg ulcerations should heal within 12 to 16 weeks, and 98% in 24 weeks. In reality, however, research shows that healing rates at six months have been reported as low as 9%, with infection rates as high as 58%. Patients suffer, and the cost of not healing wounds swiftly and effectively can lead to more serious health problems, such as sepsis, which is often the result of an infected injury. We also know that foot ulcers on diabetics can unfortunately lead to amputations if they are not dealt with properly.
In the other place they talked about the Bradford study, and there is a very good summary of it in the House of Lords Library. It underlines the importance of evidence-based care, with nearly one third of patients interviewed in the study failing to receive an accurate diagnosis for their wound. As the study puts it:
“Wound care should be seen as a specialist segment of healthcare that requires clinicians with specialist training to diagnose and manage…There is no doubt that better diagnosis and treatment and effective prevention of wound complications would help minimise treatment costs”.
We learn most of all from our own experience. My experience is that when I first developed a farthing-sized spot on my leg, I did not know what it was. I asked my chiropodist, who looked at it a few times and said, “I think you had better go and see your GP.” I went to see my GP—a very good GP—who did not know what it was either. Eventually, I was referred to a skin specialist—this is some weeks ago, now—who looked at it and said, “I don’t know what it is, but why don’t you try putting Vaseline on it?” Now, I do not think the experts up there in the Gallery would think that that was a very good idea, but I did put Vaseline on it and I do not know whether that did me any harm or not. You do worry a lot when something like that happens, whether you have knocked your leg or injured yourself in some other way, and you wonder what on earth it could be.
I think that maybe diagnosis is difficult, but rapid diagnosis is absolutely essential. I am sure the Government would agree that we need to get to grips with a nationally driven strategy. Without it, patients will receive worse care for their injuries and the financial burden on other parts of the NHS will continue to increase, because patients develop chronic wounds or catch an infection that could lead to life-threatening illness.
During the course of my journey, I have met many interesting people. For instance, I did not know there was an all-party group on vascular and venous disease. I just happened to see it in the all-party notices the day after I had been in St Thomas’s. I rang up the chair, the hon. Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas), and asked him if I could come along to a meeting. He said that I was welcome to. I went along and, apart from the chair, I think I was the only MP there. There was a fascinating mixture of people, who were all involved in this problem in some way.
There was somebody who runs a leg clinic, who had a lot of stories to tell. In fact, she sent me a whole pile of patient stories—there is not time to read them out today, but they are very interesting. I realised how difficult it is for patients to get the right diagnosis and the right treatment. I took a list of all the people—they are mainly consultants—and I know that some people in St Thomas’s would have come along if they had known of the existence of such a group. It introduced me to the Lindsay Leg Club Foundation, which is run by Ellie Lindsay OBE, who is the president. There are leg clubs in many towns and cities around the country. She was very encouraging—I say that as somebody who was a bit afraid when they realised what they had. She rang me up several times, and her patient stories were fascinating.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
I am listening with great interest to what the right hon. Lady is saying, not least because this is an important debate on something that we do not talk about as much as we should in this place. Am I picking up correctly what she is saying on patient experience? Is she saying that we should encourage patients who have been through this transition and experience to share that experience with others in order to make other potential patients more aware of what might be out there and what they could do?
Ann Clwyd
Yes. That is a very positive idea. People need to talk to one another, particularly in this House because of the age differences. A lot of people talk about this in the other House, because on the whole they are much older than we are—except for me in this place; I am pretty old. I am just surprised that I had never heard of this before. Talking encourages people when they have discovered that they have this problem to seek the right advice.
Jamie Stone
Can I make absolutely sure that I understand this? By age difference, the right hon. Lady means people of my age—I am considerably older than some hon. Members—sharing experiences with people who are younger and might need to know these things. Is that correct?
Jamie Stone
Is this about the older generation, who might have had some experience in this regard, sharing experiences so that the younger generation—considerably younger than I am—might know the potential of what they will look at or deal with in future?
Ann Clwyd
Yes. I am very glad that there is an all-party group, for example, because it is important that such groups exist. I have seen the work that has gone on there over several months. As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are dozens and dozens of all-party groups in this place—I am sure that we do not know of the existence of most of them, but it is good to draw attention to this one.
Another person I met was Professor Julian Guest, who is a health economics consultant. People are very good at sending information. He sent me a list of things that, as a health economist, he has been working on. He says that wound care requires
“a change in its service delivery model that could include…Enhanced support for safe self-care (possibly by integration with local pharmacy support and supervision)…Improved diagnostic support underpinned by increased training and education of non-specialist nurses in the fundamentals of wound management…Consistent and integrated progressive care pathway with agreed defined trigger points for senior involvement and onward referral for investigation and differential diagnosis and a shared management plan to be implemented regardless of care setting…Establishment of dedicated wound care clinics in the community, possibly in general practices.”
So there are several papers by people working in this area who are thinking deeply about it.
I heard from consultants at St Thomas’s about an excellent development called the Camden Health Improvement Practice pilot wound clinic. Dr Geraghty, who runs it, is working on wound care for people who are sleeping rough—for the homeless. I think everybody would applaud that as a very necessary and useful thing to do, and we look forward to hearing more about it. I am looking at the clock, and there is not much time left, but I hope the Minister will respond on this issue, because when I think of the pain inflicted on people—luckily, my pain is managed, but the pain of the homeless, for example, who are sleeping rough on the streets, is not generally being managed—it is clear that this Camden project is a very welcome development.
I had a new knee about a year ago, which is not a pleasant thing to have done. However, I have known nothing as painful as this leg wound, and I am grateful that so many good people are working in this area and highlighting its importance. It is probably not as glamorous as others in the health service, but it is absolutely necessary for people’s wellbeing, comfort and health, and I hope we can do a lot more to support people in this area, to support new initiatives and to assist the doctors, nurses and other practitioners who do such an excellent job.
I am out on parole, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will, I hope, be returning to my bed in St Thomas’s before too long, and I hope to come back after the recess with very positive views and a continuing interest in the whole subject of wound care in the NHS.
The Minister for Care (Caroline Dinenage)
It has sometimes been said that MPs in this House speak about things they do not know about, and sometimes MPs speak about things about which they have only a little experience, but I do not think I have ever had the honour of responding to a debate where a Member has spoken with so much current, relevant experience. I must congratulate the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd)—
Interim NHS People Plan
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(4 years, 11 months ago)
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Stephen Hammond
I thank my hon. Friend for that question. The Department will launch the consultation at the end of this month. It will set out the proposals, which we spoke about yesterday, to introduce greater pension flexibility. They are designed to take away the disincentives not only for senior clinicians but clearly for GPs. That consultation will last for the normal length of time, and I hope we will be able to proceed quickly thereafter.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
When I came to Parliament 35 years ago, I had served for three years on the royal commission on the NHS. We made many recommendations. When I hear the Minister talk about things that will be done and say that notice has been taken of reports, I am reminded that that report landed on Margaret Thatcher’s desk. The recommendations that we made were never carried out. One was about the shortage of doctors. Thirty-five years ago, we knew that there would be a shortage of doctors. We made many other important points, which should have been acted on. What assurances can the Minister give so that on this occasion the recommendations in the report will be acted on? What is the point of all these words and all this work done by people on things such as royal commissions unless the Government take action?
Stephen Hammond
The Government are taking action specifically on the points that the right hon. Lady made. We committed to increase the number of undergraduate medical school places by 1,500, and 630 are already in place.
Licensing of Medical Devices
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(5 years, 3 months ago)
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Owen Smith
Yes, I absolutely agree. There are many instances of similar mis-selling of these products to women. We need to examine the relationship between the doctors who are selling or marketing these products to their patients and the companies that develop them. Some have an interest in those companies, and others are getting a money benefit through doing this in the private sector. All these things desperately need to be looked at.
The terrible truth is that the surgical mesh scandal that is unfolding is just one of the scandals relating to medical devices. We had the metal-on-metal hip joint scandal, with metallosis poisoning people’s bodies. We had the scandal of textured PIP breast implants poisoning women’s bodies. Those implants are now connected with increased incidences of cancer. We had spine-straightening devices for children that were only ever tested on corpses. We had pacemakers such as the Nanostim, which was designed to sit inside the heart and work for up to 19 years. It has now been removed from the market because the batteries started to break down and cease to work and, worse, it was giving people electric shocks. The devices are now being cut out of people. Between 2015 and 2018, UK regulators alone received reports of 64,000 adverse events involving medical devices. A third of those incidents resulted in serious medical repercussions for patients, and 1,004 resulted in death.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
I would like to pay tribute to the tremendous work that my hon. Friend has done on mesh. Quite a number of people in my constituency have suffered as a result of the use of mesh, and they are extremely grateful for the work that he has been doing. About 20 years ago, we had the scandal of silicone implants, and someone in my constituency had a double mastectomy because the silicone had leaked inside her body. These problems are still happening. We set up a register, but suddenly the register disappeared. I am glad that my hon. Friend has made a point about the register and asked for the Minister’s commitment on this.
Owen Smith
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for her kind words. She is completely right to say that there are devices on the market here and across the world that are still causing grave medical problems for patients. The question we have to ask is: how did these things get on to the market in the first place? How have we got so many of these devices that are causing such significant problems? The common problem that unites mesh with all the other device scandals in our country and across the globe is the weakness of the regulatory system in the UK, in the EU and, to a lesser extent, in America, where the pathway for testing approval, marketing and surveillance of such devices just is not good enough.
How does the system work? It will shock people to hear that we do not have a central body that is responsible for checking out, authorising and licensing devices in the same way as for medicines. If a company in the UK wants to create a new prosthetic hip joint, it does so and then it shops around among a group of what are called notified bodies. These are effectively commercial organisations that are in turn licensed by the MHRA to be a body that checks safety and efficacy through the clinical data provided by the companies and then gives them their conformité Européenne—their EU kitemark. Once a company has received that mark, the device can be sold all across the EU.
Companies do not need clinical trial data in order to substantiate their claims that devices are efficacious and safe. Quite often—this is true of a remarkable proportion of the devices on the market—they do not even have to undertake first-hand clinical evaluations themselves and can rely on being follow-on products that go through a regulatory pathway that is termed as being “substantially equivalent” to the products that have gone before. For instance, there are examples of mesh on the market now that are the 61st iteration of an original licensed mesh that is no longer on the market because it was proven to be dangerous. There is no real mandatory post-marketing surveillance of these devices.
Given that the difficulty of randomised control trials versus placebo for a device—someone cannot put a wooden heart into one patient and a pacemaker into another in order to see which one works—means that there will be a degree of risk in testing such things in the real world, one would think that we would have a system that would test how devices are doing in the real world and get companies or the Government to monitor them, but we do not, which is in stark contrast to the regime for medicines. Changes are coming into effect, however. A new medical devices regulation was launched across the EU in 2017 and will come into effect in May 2020. It was introduced with the acknowledgement of many of the problems that I have highlighted.
Oral Answers to Questions
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
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Matt Hancock
How could I say no? The integration of health and social care is vital and long awaited, and there is so much to do.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
As someone who is about to have a knee operation, may I tell the Secretary of State that it is a painful thing to wait for and that people should not have to stay on waiting lists for long periods of time? My question is about hospital medical staff. Western Mail carried out a survey to look at the effect of EU nationals leaving the national health service because of Brexit. It found one health board saying that there were 1,200 more nurses than there were four years ago, and another saying that there were 1,400 fewer. No one seems to be able to tell us with absolute certainty the numbers of these staff in the health service.
Matt Hancock
I listened carefully to the right hon. Lady because she has long been a campaigner on health issues, and I very much take her point about knee operations. Of course, the number of EU nationals working in the NHS in England has risen by over 4,000 since the referendum. I know that there are concerns in specific areas, but I hope that we can all take reassurance from the fact that that number has continued to rise. We are determined to ensure that the NHS has the workforce that it needs.
Breast Cancer Screening
Ann Clwyd Excerpts(6 years ago)
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Mr Hunt
According to the advice that I have received so far, there is no read-across to other screening programmes, but obviously the independent review panel will look into that as it seeks to examine all aspects of the issue. We have made the commitment today that we will invite for scans all those who either should be scanned or should consider whether they wish to have a scan, and will offer them a date before the end of October, although we hope that in the vast majority of cases it will be much sooner than that.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)
What conversations has the Secretary of State had with the Welsh Secretary? Having long since passed the ages he mentioned, I certainly was never invited for a screening; I had to ask for one, and I eventually got the screening in England.
Mr Hunt
We have not had conversations at ministerial level, but we have had conversations at official level. The Welsh Administration do not believe this problem has affected them, even though Wales was using the same IT system we were using in England. Our concern is about people living in England who are registered with a Welsh GP or people living in Wales registered with an English GP. That is why we are having constructive discussions to share IT information and make sure everyone in England or Wales registered with a GP will get that letter.
To respond to the earlier question about what people should do now, anyone is free to call the helpline number, which will be made public today, but we are hoping to get the letters out as quickly as possible over the next four weeks, during the month of May, so that everyone can be pretty confident that they are okay if they have not received one of those letters.