Pension Schemes Bill

Debate between Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill

Committee stage
Thursday 5th February 2026 Grand Committee

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted (LD)]

I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Pitt-Watson, to the Committee. His comments have inspired me to make a very small intervention. It is true that there is a lot of index investment, and inevitably that will capture things inadvertently, but there are now many more indices that will be socially responsible or environmentally responsible, and trustees can choose to use them.

If pension trustees collectively and pension funds made a little more noise and made more approaches to the index providers, we may well get indices that are more pushy in what they do for social and environmental protection. Ultimately, most of the time they are paid to invent an index or they are doing it for their own platforms, but I see an open door there to apply pressure.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Pitt-Watson—may there be many in the future. In coming to the Moses Room for the pensions Bill debate, I never thought that I would have to declare an interest, but according to the Companion I need to say that I am the president of the Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel. I need to put that on the record because of what has been said.

I understand where we are coming from, but the trouble is that in the modern world, investments are global. You do not necessarily have one cup being manufactured in the UK or in the countries mentioned by noble Lords. Very often, you have bits of equipment manufactured here, in Israel, in America and elsewhere. I give the F35 aircraft as an example: the parts are assembled from all parts of the world. It becomes a global thing, and it is difficult in the global economy to identify where something is manufactured or whatever.

The point at issue—it is a good point—is that trustees have to make the decision. They will take into account all the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Hendy, and my noble friend Lady Janke, but at the end of the day they have a fiduciary responsibility to their members. This is not the first time this has happened. Hertfordshire very recently had an amendment to divest from one country. It was passed on the chairman’s vote. What happened? It went back to the pensions committee of Hertfordshire County Council, which decided that its fiduciary duty was not to make political statements but to look after the investments under its control. Whether it is Myanmar, Israel, China or Russia, it is a very slippery slope when you do that. So, as people involved in pensions, we have to leave it to the trustees to use their judgment, taking into account all the factors that the noble Lord, Lord Hendy, and others mentioned. It is a fiduciary judgment. Our view is that the fiduciary duty should be robust, not restrictive, focused on long-term member outcomes, informed by real-world risks and clear enough to avoid defensive or overly narrow decision-making. I do not support this amendment.

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill

Debate between Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 16th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill [V]]

I will not speak for long, bearing in mind the time constraints. I am concerned by Amendment 75 and the mention of the Small Business Commissioner. I wonder whether, perhaps separate from this debate, the Minister could say what successes the Small Business Commissioner has had. I have made previous speeches in your Lordships’ House on his ineffectiveness.

The amendment before us now sounds sensible but it does not use the normal term “small and medium-sized enterprises”; it mentions “small business” and “larger businesses”. From my professional life, I know that many firms that consider themselves small I would consider large, and that many firms that are large would consider themselves small. The vagueness that this amendment would introduce to the legislation, if it ever got in, would not be useful.

The Small Business Commissioner was really set up to deal with late payments, which of course affect small companies. Here, the amendment is trying to give the Small Business Commissioner a much wider remit, but I have never seen great success in the small remit it has.

While I am on my feet—in a theoretical sense— I want to mention that another Minister speaking from the Front Bench took issue with my comment on HMRC and VAT. She said that VAT was not being given special priority in the Finance Bill 2019-21. I advise her to look at Clause 95. Perhaps the noble Lord the Minister will write to me on this matter.

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted [V]]

My Lords, this group deals with a range of issues which I broadly support, but I shall keep to those amendments with my name on.

I am not quite sure what my Amendment 73 is doing in this group, but its purpose was to ensure that the interests of SMEs are specifically taken into account when reviewing amendments to legislation made under Clause 18, the Henry VIII clause. Clause 21, governing the time-limited effect of Clause 18 amendments, states that regulations made under Clause 18 must be held under review, and revoked or amended if they are no longer expedient or proportionate. My amendment adds a third option if they cause harm to SMEs, as I fear that SMEs could fall between the two stools of expedience and proportionality.

I signed Amendment 78, concerning the FRC, because its replacement is long overdue and it is hard to understand why this top recommendation from the Kingman report has not yet come about. I know that there has already been one consultation on it because I replied to it over a year ago, so what happened to that and why is there prevarication? There is still so much more about the unsatisfactory past of the FRC that could come out—it is constantly dribbling out. It will taint ARGA if it is perceived as just the FRC by a new name, which is what the delay is doing.