Family Courts: Domestic Violence

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am not able to identify the link that the noble Baroness refers to. We have full confidence in our family courts system and in the ability of our circuit and district judges to discharge their functions objectively and without regard to issues of gender. In order to do that in cases of the kind that we have discussed, they will always be guided by the requirement for the interests of the child to be paramount.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, perhaps I may ask about the Minister’s announcement of the setting up of an expert panel. Children are often victims too, whether the damage inflicted is physical or psychological. I am worried about the fundamental presumption of the family courts that the interest of the child is to have contact with both parents, sometimes even when abuse of the parent with care is proven or alleged. However, this is tricky territory, because parental alienation can enable one parent to use the children as a weapon. Will the review, called for by 123 colleagues in the other place, work alongside the panel or is it not needed now because we have the panel?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the intention is that the expert panel should meet in June, that it should report in a very short period and that we should then be guided by its findings. That will inform us more fully as to the evidential position that should properly be considered. I emphasise that the paramount consideration in these matters is always the interests of the child. The Children Act 1989 rightly places the child’s welfare as the paramount consideration, and there is no absolute right for any parent to have contact with a child.

Islamic Ceremony: Civil Marriage Registration

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 28th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, I must make it clear that the offence of forced marriage does not give legal recognition to marriages but is intended to protect victims from this abhorrent practice, regardless of the validity or otherwise of the marriage. Access to financial orders available on divorce depends on whether or not there has been a legally void or dissolved marriage and is governed by an entirely separate legal regime.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, marriage is not just some romantic notion of happily ever after—after 25 years of marriage, I have learned that it is much more than that. It gives protections and rights that should be available to all couples regardless of whether or not they are religious. But these Muslim women, who believe that they are legally wed, may not find out that they do not have the protections of the law until far too late. That is why the requirement for a civil ceremony as well, as recommended by the Home Office’s own independent review last year, is so important. Is it not high time now for a fundamental review of the Marriage Act 1949 to recognise all forms of marriage in the 21st century?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The general proposition that we should recognise all forms of marriage raises issues in itself. Our marriage law actually goes back to Lord Hardwicke’s Act of 1753 rather than just to 1949. It is a complex area that we will consider from the spring onwards and in which we will have to move with care. But we cannot simply recognise all informal types of marriage. We have a basic marriage law in this country based on the place in which it is celebrated and the fact that that place is open to the public and that it should be witnessed. We cannot move away from that. Indeed, to do so would create other issues and problems for ourselves.

Prisoners: Acquired Brain Injuries

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the NHS England prison healthcare national standards service specification requires providers to screen individuals where it is suspected that they may have an acquired brain injury. Clearly, we want to take this further in light of the recent report from the Disabilities Trust. We have now formed a cross-government group with the Department of Health and Social Care, NHS England and the Prison Service to develop a more strategic picture of acquired brain injury within the criminal justice system. We hope to be able to report to the group chaired by the noble Lord by the end of March.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I am very heartened by the Minister’s response. This shocking finding explains the possible source of many difficult and counterproductive behaviours one sees in the prison population, which can seriously hamper the ability of prisoners to cope inside and outside prison and of professionals to help them. The brain injury screening index provided by the trust is freely available, and its use and effectiveness among prisoners at Drake Hall is tremendously encouraging. Will the Minister agree to add his voice to the Disabilities Trust’s demand that all prisons should adopt it?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

Clearly, we are reviewing this matter with a degree of urgency, and to that extent I add my voice. There is an issue about the extent to which we can apply particular test criteria in the context of prisoners. These cannot be over-complex because of the nature of the people we are dealing with, so this has to be a matter for further consideration. However, we are looking not just at those already in prison but those who come into contact with the criminal justice system. It is equally important that they, too, should, where possible, be assessed for the sort of vulnerabilities referred to by the noble Baroness.

Female Offender Strategy

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 31st January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, I entirely concur with the noble Lord’s observations. Indeed, our Female Offender Strategy seeks to build on the seminal report of the noble Baroness, Lady Corston, which of course goes back to 2007.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, the extension of mandatory post-custody supervision has disproportionately affected women. Recall numbers for men have risen by 22% since the changes were introduced but for women they have grown by 131%. Women are trapped in the justice system rather than being enabled to rebuild their lives. The Prison Reform Trust has called for mandatory post-custody supervision to be abolished. Does the Minister agree that the present system is not working, and does he have plans to review it?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the idea of mandatory supervision for those serving a sentence of less than 12 months was introduced only quite recently. There is a disproportion between male and female offenders in that context—I quite accept that. Indeed, that manifests itself in various other parts of the prison and custodial system. At the moment, we are seeking to extend community centre services, to help to accommodate those released after short sentences, and to combine community services with treatment requirement protocols.

That is extremely important, particularly for female offenders, where we see a vast proportion who have reported elements of mental health difficulty or who suffer from alcohol issues and, very often, drug abuse issues as well. Over and above that, an enormous proportion of these female offenders have at times been subject to domestic violence. We are trying to direct these services at these issues and will continue to do so.

Voyeurism (Offences) (No. 2) Bill

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 23rd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I am absolutely delighted to welcome the Second Reading of what has become colloquially known as the “upskirting Bill”. It was introduced in the Commons in June through a Private Member’s Bill by my friend and colleague Wera Hobhouse following an enormously successful campaign by Gina Martin, who obtained over 100,000 signatures in her bid to amend the current law. That Bill was objected to by Sir Christopher Chope —a practice he undertakes with monotonous regularity in the Commons. Many an excellent Bill has fallen because of his demand to see what he regards as proper due process. However, on this occasion he inadvertently did us all a favour. The outcry was so great that the Government agreed to bring in the Bill themselves—hence our all being here today.

Upskirting has been an offence in Scotland since 2009, so it is high time the offence was introduced in England and Wales. Of course, Northern Ireland goes its own way—or it would if Members of its Assembly could agree to work together, put the people first and get on with some legislative work.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission welcomes the Bill—I think the noble Baroness, Lady Gale, has been reading the same briefings as me—and comments that it is a further step towards meeting our commitments under the Istanbul convention. Like the noble Baroness, I would be grateful if the Minister could explain in his remarks what is holding up the ratification process.

But why is the Bill necessary? Professor Clare McGlynn of Durham University put it thus:

“Sexual offences are about power and control, punishment, sexual entitlement, anger, entertainment, as well as sexual gratification”.


A number of speakers at the Commons stage, as well as Professor McGlynn, recommended that the Government remove the motivation requirement from the Bill. They say—and I agree—that we need to concentrate instead on the harm caused to victims. And the harm is real: shame, humiliation, distress, fear and anxiety, paranoia, depression, trauma, panic attacks—the damage is endless. What does motivation matter when the outcome is one of the above?

The qualifying motivations in subsection (3) seem to me and others a little thin. The Government’s point—which I do see—is that the type of motivation is relevant to whether the perpetrator should be on the sex offender register. Anyone doing this for sexual gratification should be recorded on it. But the question remains about whether the motivations covered in the Bill leave room for sneaky defence barristers, seeking a legal loophole, to argue that their clients’ actions are not within the scope of the law.

The EHRC prefers to see motivation out of the Bill altogether, but argues that there is a question mark over two important areas which should at least be recorded as motivations on the face of the Bill. These are “financial gain” and “entertainment or amusement”. The Minister may well see amendments on this coming his way during the course of the Bill, but I am sure that the House would be grateful if he would comment in his final remarks today. “Lads having a laugh” might cut no ice with most judges—but why take the risk?

Financial gain is very real. One website hosting and exchanging images is reportedly worth £30 million. Let no one profit from this kind of humiliation and distress. Distribution of these images is an area called into question by Women’s Aid. As I understand it, the legislation criminalises the taking of an image but not the further distribution of it, which is a common occurrence. So if we fail to criminalise distribution, we fail to recognise the further distress and humiliation that victims suffer. Any possible amendments also need to include threats to distribute— a mechanism of coercive control. Women’s Aid points out the terrible damage this could cause to women of BME origin, where cultural norms may lead to their being disowned, ostracised and even killed. For the victim, this is about as far away from “having a laugh” as you can get.

I welcome the fact that upskirting will come under the Sexual Offences Act, which will give victims the right to anonymity. Studies have shown that without this right, in cases of rape, the vast majority of victims would not report. One area where this right is not given—because it does not come under the Sexual Offences Act—is for so-called revenge porn. A BBC investigation found that in about one-third of revenge porn cases where victims withdrew from prosecution, lack of anonymity was a key factor. So an amendment could be coming the Minister’s way that would give the right to anonymity to victims of all image-based sexual violence, particularly revenge porn, Photoshopped images and sextortion—which is sexual extortion. Why should not all of the above be treated as sexual offences? Perhaps the Minister could comment on this.

Women today suffer from a vast array of forms of sexual harassment. During research for this debate, I learned more than I ever wanted to know about sexual cybercrime. One in 10 women has experienced some form of cybercrime since the age of 15, including cyber harassment and stalking, use of GPS to track their movements, online rape and death threats, and doxing—which I learned is disclosing private or identifying information to the world. Only this morning, the Women and Equalities Select Committee recommended government action on street harassment and on watching porn in public places. It is sickening, and it all serves to promote the continuing unequal relationship between men and women.

We on these Benches greatly welcome the Bill. We thank the Government for taking prompt action after the attempted sabotage of the original Private Member’s Bill by Sir Christopher Chope. We also welcome the Law Commission review of whether misogyny should be included alongside other protected characteristics in law. I personally would welcome misandry also being included. After all, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Prisons: Women

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will ensure that provision for women in the prison system is properly funded, following their decision to abandon plans for five community prisons for women in England and Wales.

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, I can confirm that there are no plans to reduce funding for the women’s custodial estate. We want to provide the best rehabilitative regimes possible which are specifically tailored to women’s needs to break the reoffending cycle. We are also increasing the number of front-line prison staff, designing a new offender management and custody model tailored to the needs of women and continually improving standards in our prisons.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, this move is very welcome, but can the Minister elucidate? This initiative is costing only £5 million for the initial investment, as opposed to the £50 million that building five new prisons would have entailed, the balance being returned to the Treasury. What is the timetable for building each of these residential centres and how many women will be accommodated initially? If the pilots are successful, how many centres will be built? Finally, will the Minister assure the House that funding will be found to roll out this programme throughout England and Wales, so that we can stop locking women up in prison for minor offences and start tackling the underlying reasons why most of them end up in prison in the first place?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, we are of course concerned to address short custodial sentences and the viability of moving towards community-based sentences. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, for acknowledging that this is a move in the right direction. I should perhaps clarify that the £5 million that has been referred to will be used for our work with partners in the community for community-based resolution for women. In addition, we are providing for a women’s centres pilot which will involve five residential women’s centres, but that budget is distinct from the £5 million. I hope I have made that clear. I cannot give a precise timescale for the rolling out of that pilot, but we do have it in course.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, this amendment stands in my name and those of the noble Baronesses, Lady Altmann, Lady Burt and Lady Greengross, whose support I very much value. I also thank Working Families for its assistance.

The amendment would simply require the Government first to report to Parliament on developments in EU law in the areas of family-friendly employment rights, gender equality and work/life balance for parents and carers which would have affected UK legislation had we remained in the EU, and then to consider whether they should incorporate these changes into domestic law to ensure that such rights are not diminished or are no less than they would have been were the UK still a member of the EU. What it does not do is bind the UK to implement future EU law. While it is essentially a probing amendment, I hope to convince your Lordships that it goes with the grain of government policy and therefore there is no reason for the Government not to accept it or bring forward some other version of it. If the Minister cannot give me such an assurance, we may want to come back to this on Report.

In their note on equality legislation and EU exit, the Government rightly point to the UK’s rigorous domestic equality legislation, part of which predates or goes beyond EU provision. The same is true up to a point when it comes to family-friendly and work/life balance provisions. But, as the Government acknowledge, only part of our legislation predates or goes beyond EU provision. There is wide agreement that, in the words of the Equality and Diversity Forum, the EU,

“has been an important driver for improvements which have benefited us all”—

and, I add, women in particular. An example is the pregnant workers directive, which, as Working Families attests from its helpline, has been crucial in helping protect women from pregnancy discrimination or maternity discrimination, although a recent EHRC report shows that it is still all too common. It is worth noting here that according to new analysis published in the journal Social Policy and Society, these pregnancy and maternity rights were watered down by the then UK Government during negotiations. Other examples of EU-driven legislation include the original right to parental leave, equal rights for part-time workers and the concept of equal pay for equal work of equal value, which strengthened our own pioneering equal pay legislation immeasurably.

The Joint Committee on Human Rights 2016 Brexit report likewise noted that:

“EU law has been described as the engine that hauled the development of UK anti-discrimination law”.


Yet the Minister gave the committee,

“no commitment that the government would monitor or take account of EU law developments”.

That, it observed, “may prove significant”, especially so because we know there are a number of important directives in the pipeline, one of which is explicitly included in proposed new subsection (3)(c) in the amendment, a directive on work/life balance for parents and carers. This includes two measures on which I and many outside organisations have campaigned for many years: improved terms of paid parental leave and the introduction of paid carer’s leave. I stress that work/family life balance is of increasing importance to men, as it has traditionally been to women. I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, will say more about parental leave, because she has repeatedly raised the failure of the shared parental leave scheme to achieve its aim of significantly increasing fathers’ take-up of the leave.

The draft directive would provide four months of non-transferable leave for both fathers and mothers, paid at a minimum of statutory sick pay levels. This could provide just the kind of boost needed to encourage greater paternal involvement. I hope and trust that whatever happens to this amendment, the Minister can give us an assurance that the review currently taking place of shared parental leave will include consideration of the directive.

In addition, the draft directive includes a right to five days of carer’s leave a year, also paid at a minimum of statutory sick pay levels. As a vice-chair of the All-Party Group on Carers, I have been convinced of the importance of the case made by Carers UK and others for a period of such leave. As Carers UK argued in a report making the case:

“The evidence base for supporting working carers is growing, and it is compelling”.


Around 3 million people—one in nine members of the workforce—combine working with unpaid care for a loved one, and the numbers are predicted to grow as the population ages. The danger is that without the safety net of the right to a few days’ paid leave a year, carers will either reduce their hours or give up paid work altogether, which, as the Women and Equalities Minister said, is “a huge loss” both to them and the economy. Welcome as it is, the impact of the fund to help carers return to work in the private sector that she just announced will be reduced if it is not backed up by carer’s leave. The state pensions reviewer highlighted this issue recently and recommended statutory carer’s leave. Care leave is becoming increasingly common across the world, and if we do not keep up with our European neighbours on this matter we will fall further and further behind.

The question of future EU directives was also raised in the Women and Equalities Committee’s Brexit report. The government response stated:

“The UK Government’s record on equalities is one of the best in the world and we are determined to ensure that this remains the case … We are committed to protecting and promoting equality and to eliminating discrimination—leaving the EU does nothing to change this”.


This amendment does no more than to support, help and promote this commitment.

I will not take up time by detailing the depressing evidence from the Working Families 2018 Modern Families Index, which shows just how far we still have to go to achieve genuinely family-friendly employment, and therefore how important it is that we keep pace with EU developments. But such evidence is also there in the work of Carers UK and other organisations, which are calling for some way of keeping pace with EU developments—notably the EHRC, the TUC, the Fawcett Society and the Fatherhood Institute. In addition, new public attitude research by the IPPR indicates strong public support for continued alignment with the European economic and social model, regardless of the position taken on the referendum.

When a similar new clause was moved in the Commons in the name of Ellie Reeves and a number of other MPs, it was given short shrift by the Minister and rejected in two sentences on the grounds that it,

“suggests a procedural device for incorporating certain EEA-related rules into UK law. This is entirely unnecessary given the wider snapshot of EU law this Bill will take at the point of exit”.—[Official Report, Commons, 21/11/17; col. 904.]

That was entirely to miss the point. It is not about incorporating existing rules, which, as the Minister said, will be done as part of the wider snapshot, and of course government assurances with regard to existing equality and employment rights are welcome, even though they have not convinced everyone. Similarly, the government amendment to Schedule 7, ensuring transparency in any changes to equality legislation and placing reporting obligations on government, is welcome as far as it goes, although it does not go far enough, despite the assurances in the Minister’s helpful letter to Peers.

Snapshots are static. The whole point of this amendment is to recognise that the world is not static—it will not be frozen in aspic on the day we leave the EU. Indeed, just the other week the Brexit Secretary assured business leaders in Vienna that Britain will remain a “dynamic and open country”. This amendment is all about dynamism and openness to change in the wider continent of Europe. Mr Davis continued that Britain will be leading,

“a race to the top in global standards”.

That is great, but how can it do so without ensuring that Parliament is informed about, and is able to consider changes in, such standards among its closest neighbours? In this spirit, I call on the Government to accept this amendment, or some version of it, to ensure that we do not lose the race in global standards of equality, family-friendly employment and work/life balance. Doing so would act as an important symbol that they are prepared to translate the Brexit Secretary’s fine words into deeds. I beg to move.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I support this small suite of amendments, to which I have added my name. We have heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Lister. Her excellent speech leaves very little for me to add and I will test the patience of the Committee by making only a couple of brief points.

I emphasise that Amendment 40 is not a grab for any further powers to keep the EU linked to Britain post Brexit. We merely wish to ensure that the UK Government consider any future EU developments in the areas of family-friendly employment rights, gender equality and work/life balance. I hope that the UK would be ahead in these areas, as in the past we have been a leader in these fields. Indeed, we may well introduce changes which the EU would do well to consider.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, referred to an EU directive coming down the line on shared parenting, the uptake of which in this country needs considerable improvement. The noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford, has graciously agreed to meet me and others to discuss some of the proposals that we have been working up. However, that is for the future.

Right now, with suggestions that we could be jettisoning our membership of the European Court of Justice and with talk of leaving the European Court of Human Rights, some colleagues on these and other Benches fear that our proud record of leadership in these areas will be lost and that the United Kingdom will enter a race—not to the top, as Minister David Davis has suggested, but in the opposite direction, to the bottom. Amendments 89A, 129A and 157A would simply enshrine in law the certainty that existing EU protections relating to families in the workplace could not be changed or got rid of under secondary legislation.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

Can the noble Baroness explain where the evidence is that we will be reaching for the bottom in equality laws? I certainly do not see any evidence of that.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question. As I have just outlined, my concern is that there has been talk on the Government Benches—it has all been suspended at the moment because nothing will happen pre Brexit—of abandoning our membership of the European Court of Justice and leaving the European Court of Human Rights. That is what worries me and it is why I mentioned it.

[Baroness Manzoor]

With due respect, that does not affect what we are doing with equality and human rights legislation in the UK. Perhaps the noble Baroness could explain a little further what that would mean. I do not see any impact on equality law in the UK from leaving the institutions that she has mentioned.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

What I am concerned about is the general direction of movement that is being mooted in certain quarters regarding various types of rights for people in the UK in order to make the UK more amenable to having less protection in the fields we are talking about—employment, equality and human rights.

None of these amendments is unreasonable, and the Government would give considerable comfort to mums, dads and carers throughout the country if these simple amendments could be incorporated into the Bill.

Prisons: Women

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the suitability of bids for replacement services for women prisons made following the closure of HM Prison Holloway.

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, women formerly held at HM Prison Holloway were transferred to other prisons from July 2016. Where equivalent provision was not already in place at the destination prison, HM Prison and Probation Service managed the transition of services from Holloway, giving due consideration to the needs of both service providers and the prisoners that they support. As a result, bids for replacement services were not undertaken.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, 11 years ago, the Corston report stated that the Government should create a strategy to replace existing women’s prisons with suitable, geographically dispersed, small, multifunctional custodial centres within 10 years. As the noble and learned Lord has pointed out, Holloway is now closed and female offenders are being redistributed, even on short-term sentences, all over the country, which negatively impacts on the stability of their family life. Is the Minister saying that this policy is not now going to be pursued by the Government?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, with regard to the dispersal of prisoners from HM Prison Holloway, there were at the time of the move 241 prisoners who had to be transferred to other prisons. Of those, 114 were transferred to Downview and the remand prisoners, extending to about 56, were transferred to Bronzefield. Both those establishments had suitable facilities and services for the prisoners who were transferred. We are, of course, engaged in looking at and renewing the entire prison estate at the present time, which is one reason for the disposal of HM Prison Holloway.

Disabled People: Medical Records

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the use of medical records of disabled parents in child custody cases.

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, the welfare of the child is paramount in court decisions about a child’s upbringing. As well as any other matters, the court can take into account the medical record of a parent with disabilities if it considers such evidence relevant to the case. Judges must act in accordance with the principles of the European Convention on Human Rights, including those relevant to preventing discrimination on the grounds of disability.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I am sure that noble Members will all agree that the welfare of the child must be paramount, but many disabled parents feel that they are unfairly discriminated against in child custody cases. Some fear visiting the doctor in case the use of their medical records in court might contribute to their being designated unfit parents. The Equality Act is silent on this matter, so will the Minister consider adding a clause to the Act to clarify the situation and to reassure disabled parents that they will be fairly treated in the family courts?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Baroness for her observation, however I fear that some confusion has entered the debate around the issue of discrimination. The Equality Act 2010 deals with the issue of discrimination on the part of individuals. Judicial decision-makers are exempt from the provisions of the Act on very reasonable grounds; however, any judicial decision-maker is bound, in any event, by the provisions of Articles 6, 8 and 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights, and is therefore bound never to discriminate against any party on grounds of disability.

Family Court

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble and learned friend, who has a great deal more experience in these areas than I would ever hope to achieve. Clearly, the purpose of cross-examination, whether it is to challenge credibility or reliability or a particular account, should be pursued by way of questions. It is not an opportunity to make statements to the court or to give evidence and should never be an opportunity to resort to abuse, whether of a victim, a witness or the court itself.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, this issue is widespread, serious and urgent. Research by Women’s Aid found that one in four women in this situation faced direct questioning from their alleged abusers. We welcome the urgency of the Government’s review, but does the Minister agree that some things could be done now without the need for legislation—for example, having the victim and the alleged abuser in different rooms, with questions being put via a video link? Will the Minister commit to look at what the Government can do now, and place whatever legislation is necessary before Parliament at the earliest possible moment? Will he also look at what can be done in the interim?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Baroness, who makes a very good point with regard to how we may attempt to tackle this matter, by way not only of legislation, be it primary or secondary, but also by way of the procedural rules which apply in the context of family cases. That will be looked at in the context of the present review and work. If we consider that steps can be taken, we will make representations to the judiciary so that it can properly examine how these procedural rules can be considered. I understand that the President of the Family Division has arranged that certain work should be undertaken with regard to children in the context of the procedural rules.