Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) (Extension to Maritime Activities) Order 2026

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Thursday 12th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I will respond to this SI and the regret amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan. My noble friend Lady Suttie will respond to the specific points raised in the fatal amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey.

This order extends the UK trading scheme to cover emissions from carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide from domestic maritime activities for vessels over 5,000 gross tonnage, including in-port emissions, from 1 July 2026. It implements decisions of the UK ETS authority, agreed by all four Governments of the United Kingdom, and has already passed by a substantial majority in the other place. It is part of our broader strategy to decarbonise all sectors of the UK economy and to meet our legally binding 2050 net-zero targets.

To be clear, we support the order and we will not vote in favour of either the regret amendment or the other amendment. We believe, though, that the SI needs to meet three tests: it needs to have environmental integrity, economic fairness and practical deliverability. It must also support the UK’s wider trading interests, including our growing relationship with the European Union. The Liberal Democrats start from a clear point of principle: carbon must be properly priced and the polluter must pay. The UK ETS is a flagship decarbonisation instrument, a cap and trade system that sets a declining cap on total emissions and auctions allowances, each representing one tonne of CO² equivalent. Tightening that cap over time sends a clear signal to businesses about what they must reduce and by when.

Emissions trading is, in our view, the most effective way to cut total emissions at the lowest cost. It enables the market to identify and invest in the cheapest abatement options, rather than relying solely on prescriptive regulation, and that reduces carbon leakage. Extending the logic to domestic maritime completes a missing piece in the system that already covers power, heavy industry and aviation. Maritime emissions matter. They are a significant and growing source of CO² emissions. A key barrier to their reduction is that fuel prices do not adequately reflect the environmental costs and therefore reduce incentives for change. Including domestic maritime in the ETS helps to remove the barriers, putting a clear technology-neutral price on emissions from voyages and time spent at berth.

The Government’s impact assessment estimates a central net reduction of around 645,000 tonnes of CO² equivalent, delivering greenhouse gas savings valued on the central estimate of around £155 million and around £179 million in air quality benefits. Overall, the measure has a positive net social value on the Government’s central estimate of £132 million. That is a measurable gain for people and planet. Consultation material suggests that vessels over 5,000 gross tonnes account for two-fifths of domestic maritime emissions. Is the Minister confident that the scope and the threshold align with our overall carbon budgets?

Our climate policy must also be fair. Costs must not fall disproportionately on those who are least able to bear them. The Government’s impact assessment suggests limited consumer impact: typically 1% for most goods and around 2% for some—

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Russell. Can I ask him two things, from a state of ignorance? First, why is Scotland being omitted and Northern Ireland put in? Secondly, we seem to be dealing with an issue on CBAM that was not referred to in the House of Commons. It seems extraordinary that we should be looking at it from a different perspective from the House of Commons.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

I welcome the noble and learned Baroness’s intervention. The Scotland issue relates to devolved legislation and legislation that Scotland has passed. The issue in relation to the CBAM is in relation to—

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The Government seek implementation by 1 July this year—just three and a half months away. I urge the Minister to delay inclusion of maritime in the UK ETS until full evidence and guidance is published, to ring-fence maritime ETS revenues for decarbonisation, to exempt the lifeline ferries to island communities about which we have heard much, and to pause the UK Government regulation for international emissions until IMO negotiations are completed. Can we also have, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, said, an SI example, as requested?

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I too share the disquiet—without, I have to say, any knowledge of the subject—of most noble Lords who have spoken so far, but I, like others, will be voting so I have three questions for the Minister. First, what was said to the other House? Apparently, the other House was told that CBAM was irrelevant. Today we are told that CBAM is entirely relevant. Is it really appropriate for both Houses to have a statutory instrument put to them on different bases? I find that very unattractive.

Secondly, we are told that misinformation, or false information, has been given to other parts of the United Kingdom. That seems to me a serious allegation, one which the Minister needs to answer. Thirdly—I will not dwell on it, because it has been dwelt on—there is an obvious element of discrimination between Scotland and Northern Ireland. That really needs a sensible, understandable answer.

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, this has been a characteristically impassioned debate, which is perhaps not surprising given the subjects of EU alignment, devolution and greenhouse gas emissions. It is inevitable that people are going to feel very strongly about this subject. If the noble Lord, Lord Empey, expressed his concern for the Minister in trying to reply to this debate, I would add that it is slightly difficult, as the only Scot who has so far spoken in this debate. In well over two hours, I think I am only the fourth person to vaguely talk in favour of this statutory instrument. I thank the Minister for both his time, when he gave us a briefing, and his introduction to these regulations. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, for tabling this fatal amendment—even though we will not be supporting it—because it is incredibly important that we get the time to debate these matters.

As the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, said, it is incredibly important that this Parliament has a chance to debate these issues, not least because we are going to see an increasing number of them as we approach dynamic alignment with the European Union on ETS, as well as potential agreements on SPS and the electricity market. We have to find a way to allow this Chamber and those at the other end of the building to debate these things properly. I hope that the Government are giving some considerable thought to how effective parliamentary oversight on these matters can and will take place if and when these additional agreements are made later this year.

These regulations, it should be recalled, stem from regulations introduced by the Conservative Government in 2021 and the creation of the UK ETS following our departure from the EU ETS after Brexit. As these issues are devolved, they have had to be decided by the four parts of the United Kingdom. In answer to the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, I am the only Scot speaking here today, but it was the Scottish Government who effectively campaigned for the exemption for the Scottish islands. They are not my party, but they obviously campaigned very successfully on this matter. The noble Baroness, Lady Foster, who is no longer in her place, was right when she said that these regulations stem from regulations introduced in the Scottish Parliament in 2018.

It is important to note that these regulations were agreed last month by both the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Senedd, and this week by the Northern Ireland Assembly, notwithstanding the comments from noble Lords about that process. It was voted for by the Northern Ireland Assembly by 44 votes to 23 this Tuesday. As I said, the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, was quite right. My understanding is that the exemption for Scottish ferries is not a general maritime exemption; it stems from the Islands (Scotland) Act 2018, which was passed by the Scottish Parliament eight years ago to protect specific lifeline services for small, isolated island communities. Clearly, protection for small island communities is very important. Will the Minister confirm that this Scottish exemption for island ferries will form part of the review in 2028? I feel it is important for us to know.

I also thank the Minister for clarifying that ferries to small island communities in Northern Ireland are already exempt from these regulations, as they do not involve vessels of over 5,000 cubic tonnes. As my noble friend Lord Russell clearly set out, we on these Benches strongly support measures to reduce the quantity of greenhouse gases produced by maritime activities, but we none the less believe that these must be accompanied by port upgrades or cleaner fuel infrastructure, as well as by encouraging innovation and economic development in a cleaner maritime sector. I note, in passing, that those who constantly oppose measures to reduce climate change never seem to factor in the cost of non-action. We also support the general principle of aligning as closely as possible with the EU ETS to minimise friction on trade.

It is important to bear in mind, however, the impact that other noble Lords have set out on the economy of Northern Ireland and on the cost of living in these increasingly challenging times for the global economy, not least in terms of energy because of the war in the Gulf. It is also important to allow a full and transparent review of how the scheme works in practice and to correct any unintended consequences once it is introduced later this year. Given that the Government’s own impact assessment states that Northern Ireland

“could face disproportionate administrative burdens”,

it is important that we continue to monitor the situation extremely closely. Can the Minister say whether they intend to give regular reports to this Parliament, as well as to the devolved parliaments, on how the regulations are working in practice once they are introduced? Can he confirm that they will continue to consult closely the maritime sector, businesses and consumer organisations?

As there is currently a distinct lack of viable low-carbon alternatives for many maritime routes serving Northern Ireland, have the Government carried out any analysis regarding the extent to which additional ETS-related costs could be passed on to consumers by shipping operators and retailers? The EU ETS currently covers 50% of emissions from international voyages starting or ending in an EU member state, which, for example, currently includes container ships travelling from GB to the Republic of Ireland. It is therefore welcome that there is a 50% deduction for GB-NI routes, as it provides for a level playing field with Irish ports. However, if and when there is increasing—or indeed eventually full—alignment with the EU ETS, can the Minister say whether he expects this 50% deduction for both the Republic of Ireland and GB-NI routes to be removed? I appreciate that might be a rather complicated question, but I would very much appreciate his answer. Can he also say what measures the Government intend to put in place to avoid a cliff edge following the review of these regulations in 2028?

In conclusion, we support these regulations as we welcome the move towards greater alignment with the EU ETS, and we do not support either the regret amendment or the fatal amendment. None the less, we recognise the need for proportionality as well as strong transitional and review measures. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s reply.

Domestic Solar Panels

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Monday 25th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

That is a very interesting point. It is worth making the point also that a number of British companies are assembling some of the solar panels imported from China. I agree that we need to look at all these areas.

In relation to the GB Energy Bill, the noble Baroness will know it is not our intent to place in the Bill the exact amount of energy generation we require from each source. That will be a matter for the GBE board in light of the Government’s overall priority-setting towards clean power and net zero.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I have had solar panels on my roof for many years. There is a local town in Devon near Exeter—Cranbrook—which is growing vastly and does not have a single solar panel on any of the buildings, and there are thousands of houses and other buildings. Can the Minister make sure that cannot happen again?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

I am intrigued, my Lords, to learn as to why there should be a desert in a particular part of the noble and learned Baroness’s county. Certainly, if she would like to send me more details, I will have a look at it.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 20th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise to my noble friends on these Benches, particularly my noble friend Lord Hodgson. I have the opposite conclusion from the one at which he arrived. My noble friend suggests that it could be game over if we vote once again to ask the Commons to think again. As far as I can see, if we agree to this, it could be game over for us anyway. The Government’s arguments are that if we do not accept their position, these changes will delay the repeal of retained EU law and have also argued that sufficient scrutiny measures are already in place. We know that is not the case.

Giving almighty powers to Ministers to bypass Parliament upends the norms that have governed our country and given us the international reputation we have built. The possibility of allowing any Minister to revoke secondary legislation, just because it happens to emanate originally from the EU, confuses the issue of leaving the European Union with the issue of parliamentary democracy. A Minister could make, change or repeal laws or rules that they consider appropriate, according to this legislation, regardless of Parliament’s view and regardless of whether that Minister even has any expertise in the areas so well outlined by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, such as public health, agriculture, fisheries and blood safety.

The noble and learned Lord’s amendment gives the House of Commons the last word. This is an existential issue beyond politics, and I urge noble Lords to think beyond this Parliament too. If we set this precedent now for this Government, presumably nothing can stop that precedent being used against these Benches, or in some other unacceptable manner, in the future. That could happen if we give up the idea that Parliament must make the rules, rather than Ministers.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, over the years I have sat in this House, I have become increasingly concerned about the powers which have been taken by successive Governments, particularly this Government, to the detriment of both Houses of Parliament. It seems extraordinary to me that the House of Commons has not yet appeared to realise the extent to which it, quite apart from us, is being marginalised. This is a very concerning matter. It goes, as my noble friend Lord Pannick said, far beyond the politics; this is a constitutional issue about the rights and powers of both Houses. This is just one example—the latest and one of the most disturbing—which this House has seen over a number of years.

I support both amendments, but particularly the amendment of my noble and learned friend Lord Hope. We really have to remind the House of Commons, the other place, what is happening to it as well as to us.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 6th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I will very briefly support what the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, said. I agree with all of his detailed arguments, which were extraordinarily well put.

I will focus on two general points. First, in principle, I am very much in favour of increasing the control of Parliament over the legislative powers exercised by the Government. That is increasingly the case because Governments of all stripes are increasingly using secondary legislation to make very substantial changes to our laws. I want to see much greater parliamentary control.

Secondly, and differently, this issue goes to the amending power included in subsection (3) of the proposed new clause—I am very much in favour of that. For the many years I have been in Parliament, I have been deeply troubled by our inability to amend secondary legislation. What is being proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, is a mechanism; it may be rather a tricky one to use, but I hope it will be a precedent. It is one that I strongly support, because it is important for this House and the House of Commons to be able to amend statutory instruments. So if the noble Lord moves his amendment to a Division, I shall support it.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I too strongly support what the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, said. I cannot resist telling the House that I am chairman of the Ecclesiastical Committee, and some years ago the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury was discussing a measure that was coming through our hands before going to Parliament, which had a clause that would allow the General Synod to make almost any changes to any law in England. We pointed out gently that it would not get through Parliament. Dear, oh dear, what are we talking about today? I would not have been quite as gung-ho about what could not happen in Parliament if I had come across this Bill and, I have to say, the Illegal Migration Bill.

The point that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, was making about delegated powers—I remember that speech very well—is one that I am delighted the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, has taken up. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, was saying that there will come a point when we will actually vote against secondary legislation—and maybe the time is just beginning to come. If we end up with having no power in Parliament, in either House, to decide whether laws that are different from those we have can be argued in either Chamber, what is the point of us being here? Consequently, I do feel that the House should support the noble Lord, Lord Anderson.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, for the work he has done on Motion B1 with the listing of powers, rights and liabilities. I note that he will not press his amendment because he has got it to the point of getting a pledge from the Government.

Perhaps I might ask the Minister what the timescale is for putting these on the dashboard, because they are not currently on the dashboard. The last time they were searchable on the dashboard, only 28 rights, powers and liabilities were listed. They did not include, for instance, Article 157 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, which, as all noble Lords know, concerns the right to equal pay for equal work; it goes further than the Equality Act 2010 and is an absolutely crucial instrument for equal pay. They also did not include Article 6.2 of the habitats directive, which imposes an obligation to take appropriate steps to avoid the deterioration of habitats. Those are two examples of key rights and powers that need to be on the dashboard, and there must be many more. Can the Minister tell us how many he thinks will be listed and by when?

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, the amendments moved by the noble Baronesses leave me feeling very uneasy—not because I doubt the validity of the points they have raised, but because I am concerned about things that may have been missed out. The fact is that we have been presented on Report with an enormously long proposed schedule and a spreadsheet and, frankly, this is no way for parliamentary scrutiny to be conducted in the Chamber. It is a different matter in Committee, where we can have things on tables in front of us, but it is quite impossible to go through the proposed schedule in this Chamber with the respect and detail that it deserves on Report. That is my concern.

I confess that I have not had the time or resources to go through the whole of the proposed new schedule. I have spotted, as has been noted, a number of things that quite obviously have to be discarded. That is not in doubt. However, it is the things that need to be examined carefully in detail in order to see mistakes of the kind that these amendments draw attention to that trouble me very greatly. I just express my great concern about the process we are undertaking, which, in my respectful submission, cannot really be described as parliamentary scrutiny.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, with two grandchildren who are gluten-free, I strongly support and share the concerns of the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. Perhaps more fundamental are the points that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, has just raised. Throughout this process, I have become increasingly concerned about what may be left out or partially changed. Speaking as a former lawyer, what is going to happen when these matters come to court, as we said in Committee? We discussed what would be said when these matters come to court and someone relying on a regulation finds that it no longer exists, or that it has been changed without anyone having any idea that it had happened. As the noble and learned Lord said, this is absolutely not the way to deal with retained EU law.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 15th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I wish I could support my noble friend but I am afraid I cannot. She shows a total misunderstanding of the way in which bureaucratic minds work: if you extend a deadline, they do nothing until they are approaching it. All that happens is that you prolong the whole thing. Let us face it, we would not be considering the whole business of how many laws we should be retaining or binning if there had not been a sunset clause in the original drafting of the Bill. That concentrated minds in Whitehall and got them to start finding out how much legislation they have. I think some of them were quite surprised how much there was. I certainly cannot support this amendment.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I welcome that 500 of the regulations will be dealt with on Wednesday with a view to them being revoked, but what worries me is that there must be at least another 3,000. What will happen to them? At what point, if ever, will this House have an opportunity to comment on them?

[Lord Fox (LD)]

It is the Minister’s turn.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 6th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly to both Amendments 68 and 69. This Bill, as others have said, creates huge uncertainty for business at a time when business is struggling to cope with so many uncertainties that are outside the control of the Government. But the Government do have control of this. Both amendments require the Government to report on the likely advantages and disadvantages of taking the action they propose. What could be more reasonable? What member of society would expect the Government not to have weighed up the advantages and disadvantages of taking any particular action? How on earth can it be justified to go ahead and do away with protections and rights bestowed by European law, without actually having done some consultation as to what the results are likely to be? There might be disadvantages but, unless the work is done, who knows what advantages will be thrown away. What justification can there possibly be for taking such rash and foolhardy action?

Amendment 68 also requires a resolution in Parliament as to whether such action should go ahead. It is all about bringing back control to Parliament. Why would the Government—who are so keen on bringing back control to the UK—not wish to give Parliament the say on whether EU retained rights and protections should remain? Why should consumers not have the protection of a vote in Parliament? Perhaps the Minister could tell us why he does not want to know what the advantages and disadvantages of legislating would be and does not want consumers to have their rights taken into account.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I support the three amendments, but I do not intend to speak on them. I just wanted to support and admire what the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhope, had said about the European Parliament. It was about time it was said.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I will add one very brief point as well—following on from my noble friend Lady Ludford when she introduced Amendment 68 and 69A—which is the background in the report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, which has been referred to consistently during the preceding three days of Committee. It makes the important point:

“The approach taken in the Bill gives rise to significant legal uncertainty … There is no certainty about the sunset provision itself because Ministers can extend it under the delegated power in clause 2.”


The point about these two amendments is that they set out a framework including, at the end, a very high bar that both Houses of Parliament must agree the same recommendation to go back to the Minister, which would then ensure that the Minister acted on it. It is not just for debate in Parliament, as usually happens with secondary legislation; it is making sure that there is the evidence about the background—which other noble Lords have spoken about—but then both Houses must approve the same recommendations.

I echo the questions that other noble Lords have asked. I hope that the Minister can explain to us why this safety net, as set out by the various stages in these amendments, would not be enough to reassure Ministers that we are helping them to do the job they need to do in this extremely complex matter.

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[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I agree with what has just been said by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and I speak only with reference to the Court of Appeal of England and Wales, of which I was a member for about nine years. We regularly considered cases from all over the world—the High Court of Australia, the Supreme Court of the United States, the Hong Kong Court of Final Appeal, or any court that had similar law to the law of England and Wales. We considered them, but none of them was, or is today, binding. It is absolutely unnecessary to put this in, and I have to say I find it offensive to judges who have treated these cases in the way I have just explained for many years. I was on the Bench for 35 years, and I looked at these cases many times. I would be offended to be told I could not apply them as part of English law, because I knew that from my childhood, for goodness’ sake.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I am going to speak briefly about Amendments 83, 84, 87, 87A and 87B. I do so as a jobbing barrister, with some diffidence, because I note that the noble and learned Lords who have put their names to these amendments have not yet spoken. Indeed, I do not think they are in the Chamber. I am against the provisions in the Bill, and I am going to outline my reasons.

When drafting legislation, we need to ensure clarity. Laws need to be clear, unambiguous and capable of being understood by members of the public, otherwise compliance is impossible. Furthermore, to ensure justice, advisers need a degree of certainty and predictability as to what the law is or is likely to be when they have to advise on it, otherwise, as I say, justice will not happen. When one applies those criteria to the provisions in the Bill, one becomes profoundly uneasy. The phrase found in new paragraph (b) in Clause 7(3), “any changes of circumstances”, is astonishingly broad. It would apply to any change of circumstance without any regard to degree or nature.

The same sort of criticism applies to new paragraph (c), on

“the extent to which the retained EU case law restricts the proper development of domestic law.”

But what do we mean by “proper development” of domestic law? Who is to judge what is proper? Are we to contemplate judge-made or statute law, which are extraordinarily different? Does this concept not drag judges into political and perhaps partisan areas? A determination by a judge on what the law ought to be is, in many senses, to intrude into a political decision that judges would be well advised to avoid.

Precisely the same criticisms apply to the word “influenced” in new paragraph (a) in Clause 7(4), to which Amendment 87 applies. They also apply to the phrase “would depart”, to which Amendment 87A applies. Giving practical interpretation or advice on the meaning of these words is almost impossible, which inevitably impacts on compliance by individuals and the doing of justice by the courts. For the reasons that I have briefly outlined, these proposed provisions, as presently incorporated in the Bill, are profoundly objectionable and should not feature in this legislation—but, in conclusion, I say that this applies to the entirety of the Bill.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

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Committee stage
Thursday 2nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think I referred to that in an earlier part of my speech. I addressed Amendments 42 and 43, but it all comes back to this central point of the so-called accidental sunsetting that noble Lords have raised. The noble Baroness’s amendments propose to remove the sunset entirely and replace it with systems to individually revoke each piece of EU law. I did refer to that earlier, but I will look back at what I said and if I did not refer to that directly, I will write to her. The Government think that the sunset is appropriate. I entirely accept that many Members of this House do not, but the elected House of Commons certainly did, by large majorities.

I think that I have covered most of the points now. Noble Lords might not like the answers very much but that is the Government’s position.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

One issue that I have not understood the Minister to have dealt with is the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Deben, on democracy.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think the noble Lord, Lord Deben, and I had a political difference on that point. He seems to think that secondary legislation is somehow undemocratic. If those making this complaint were to look back through Hansard to see whether they made the same complaint about the way that the law was introduced into UK law in the first place, I would have a little more sympathy with their argument. This is an essentially political disagreement about which is the most appropriate way to proceed. The Government have been elected with a big majority. One of the backbones of our programme was to get Brexit done.