Crime and Policing Bill

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Davies of Gower

Committee stage
Thursday 5th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My Lords, this has been a genuinely interesting debate. The amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, would raise the age of criminal responsibility in England and Wales from 10 to 14. For the reasons I will set out below, I am unable to support it.

First, the purpose of the age of criminal responsibility has not been designed to criminalise children unnecessarily. Rather, it is to ensure that the state can intervene early and proportionately when a child’s behaviour causes serious harm. As the noble Baroness, Baroness Levitt, the Minister, stated in this House, setting the age at 10 allows the justice system to step in at a point where intervention can prevent further offending and protect both the child and the wider public, and, crucially, children are not treated as adults. They are dealt with through youth courts under a distinct sentencing framework with rehabilitation as the central aim.

The evidence shows that the system already uses this power sparingly. We are told that, in 2024, only 13% of all children sentenced were aged between 10 and 14, and that proportion has been falling year on year. Of the 1,687 sentences imposed on children in that age group, just 23 resulted in custody. Those figures matter. They demonstrate that the age of criminal responsibility being set at 10 does not mean routine criminalisation of children. It means retaining a backstop for the most serious and persistent cases while diversion remains the norm.

Raising the age to 14 would create a dangerous gap. It would mean that children aged 10 to 13 who commit grave offences—including serious violence, sexual offences or sustained harassment—could not be held criminally responsible. This would limit the state’s ability to manage risk, protect victims and, in some cases, protect the child. There are rare but tragic cases—

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I am very grateful to the noble Lord. Section 44 of the Children Act deals with children who are a danger to themselves and to others. The only difference in the criminal court is that it comes through the family proceedings court, but in fact the local authority would have to deal with it and the child would be put into secure accommodation. I wonder whether the noble Lord could take that on board.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble and learned Baroness for that. I do not dispute that fact; I quite accept it.

There are rare but tragic cases, such as the murder of James Bulger, where a criminal justice response is unavoidable and undoubtedly in the public interest.

I respectfully suggest that international comparisons cited in this debate are far from straightforward and can sometimes serve to confuse matters. In fact, certain countries are now moving in the opposite direction. Sweden, for example, is proposing to lower its age in response to gang exploitation of children who know that they cannot be prosecuted. That underlines a key point. If the threshold is set too high, it can incentivise adults to use children as instruments of crime.

It is also worth noting that, although Scotland recently raised the age of criminal responsibility, Scotland’s experience should not justify this amendment. Even after deciding the age of criminal responsibility should be raised from eight years old, Scotland raised the threshold to 12 and not to 14. The Scottish Government also retained extensive non-criminal powers to respond to serious harmful behaviour. This amendment would go significantly further without clear evidence that such a leap would improve outcomes for children or public safety.

It is worth noting that a number of Commonwealth countries retain the doctrine that a child is considered incapable of wrongdoing, which was abolished in England and Wales by the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. In many of those jurisdictions, the standard age of responsibility is similar to ours. Australia, for example, has a standard age of criminal responsibility of 10 years old, but a rebuttable presumption exists up to the age of 14. However, I should also stress that, simply because other countries may have higher ages than England and Wales, that is not, in and of itself, a justification to alter ours. We must ensure that the age of responsibility here is suitable for our needs—

Pavement Parking

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Davies of Gower

Wednesday 21st February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, in London I jump for my life from bicycles on the pavement. Can the Minister add bicycles to the list when he is looking at enforcement?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I, too, jump out of the way of bicycles. I take the noble and learned Baroness’s point; it is a serious issue, and enforcement should be more rigorous.

Refurbishing Trains: Contracts

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Davies of Gower

Tuesday 12th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I cannot give any specifics in terms of days, but the department is certainly aware of this and will bring it on as soon as possible. I assure the right reverend Prelate that, if I can ascertain exactly how many days, I will write to him with the information.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, it may be my fault, but I have not actually understood whether the current HS2 contract with the company is or is not going to go forward.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

The contract with HS2 and Alstom will go forward in terms of phase 1.

Social Security Payments: Uprating

Debate between Baroness Butler-Sloss and Lord Davies of Gower

Monday 10th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. The Government have made a commitment in principle to the triple lock for new and basic state pensions. It is therefore a matter of fact that these will rise in line with whichever is highest: earnings, prices growth or 2.5%. For other benefits, as I said, the Secretary of State conducts a review once the relevant indices are published and makes a decision in accordance with the Social Security Administration Act 1992.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, there was a disturbing discussion on the “Today” programme today about the parents of disabled children. What are the Government doing about that? It sounds as though they are in deep trouble.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

As I said—I am sorry, I have to repeat it—we are committed to supporting disabled people, which is why we have recently paid £150 to 6 million disabled people. As I said, for additional needs disability benefits and carers’ benefits, the Secretary of State conducts a review once the relevant CPI figure is published. I am afraid we will have to wait for that.