Brexit: Women in the Workplace

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Tuesday 16th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, while we are in the EU we will obviously continue to take a constructive approach to the various Council working groups, in particular that which the noble Baroness referred to on the new work/life balance directive, and we will seek to ensure that the text is appropriately clarified. We look forward to continuing discussions under the Bulgarian presidency. I am not going to make any commitments about what we will decide to do about different parts of that work/life balance directive, but we will certainly continue those discussions, and if we are part of the EU we will sign up to it, if appropriate. If not, these are decisions for ourselves.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, one eminent equalities lawyer has said that the failure to bring across the charter of fundamental rights into UK law would mean that the free-standing right to equality will have no equivalent in domestic law, so we would lose one of the fundamental standards underpinning the other regulations being brought across in the withdrawal Bill. Given that we have heard that the new Brexit Minister in the other House wants to get rid of such rights anyway, what comfort can this Minister offer to women that their right to equality will not be weakened?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, one eminent lawyer has made that statement, but not all eminent lawyers agree with it. We are fully signed up to human rights and will continue to be fully signed up to all other aspects of human rights. Leaving the EU does not make any difference in this matter.

Euratom

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, we owe quite a debt to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for his earlier work on this and for today’s debate and the way in which he introduced it. However, I have to confess that I do not know how many such representations the Government have to receive before they realise that they have made a big mistake over Euratom, the unified European nuclear safety—the clue is in the word “safety”—and non-proliferation regime.

There have been protests—I have had them; I am sure that the Minister has had them, too—from the nuclear industry, the pharmaceutical industry, scientists, oncologists, the Bioindustry Association and the supply agency producing technetium-99m for cancer treatments and diagnosis. We have heard from specialists concerned about future supplies of medical isotopes, given that many of the reactors producing them are coming to the end of their lives. We have heard from a leading German politician, from the BMA, from the Institute of Physics, and umpteen warnings about a shortage of skilled staff and the loss of our world-leading fusion project and all the scientists and support staff who go with it.

I have just received a rather heartfelt plea from a certain Bob Kaufman, a retired diplomat who, in 1966 in our Paris embassy, drafted the language adopted by Washington and incorporated into the NPT which exempted the technically sophisticated Euratom safeguards from IAEA inspection procedures and therefore exerted political pressure on France under de Gaulle to accept Euratom rather than the American bilateral or IAEA safeguards. Mr Kaufman says:

“US-Euratom co-operation in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy established a model for worldwide efforts begun by President Eisenhower and pursuant to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. It would be a shame should Britain unnecessarily damage itself and one of Europe’s enduring and quietly successful entities”.


It is quietly successful. That is perhaps why, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said, few of us had heard of it until this happened.

There is cross-party concern on this, including from the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, who, though he cannot be here today, asked me to emphasise that concerns about the Government’s handling of this issue do not come solely from Opposition Benches. He, like others who spoke in the earlier debate, responded positively to the offer made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, on that occasion to meet Peers on this. I wrote to the noble and learned Lord about that on 17 March and got a reply on 22 June from the Minister in the Commons, who was keen to go ahead with such a meeting before the Summer Recess. That gives him about three hours to get us all together.

The question is why the Government are taking us out of Euratom despite all the evidence. As the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, said, we know that it is due to their willingness to allow their inexplicable hatred of the ECJ to colour every aspect of our withdrawal from the EU. In this case, that puts our lives, energy, safety and science at risk, just so that we can escape a court—one comprised of judges whose job is to interpret the law. We had been given to understand by something in the Guardian that the Government might seek to replicate the benefits of membership through some form of associate membership, but in the Commons the Minister appeared to dismiss this possibility and brushed aside the main concerns raised, especially as regards medical risks.

My noble friend Lord O’Neill had to leave for his plane, but he was going to say—I hope that I can use a minute to say it—that he is receiving treatment for prostate cancer at the moment. He reminded me that, although I will never get that, many in this House are likely to. He asked how long patients will have to wait for the security that their treatment will go ahead, given the fear of not having those nuclear materials. So my plea to the Minister is to act now, to get all those industries, the medics, scientists and everyone on board, and have a concerted effort to find a solution. It must be operative by March 2019. We cannot risk delays of vital nuclear material at ports because checks are being made. They are perishable as well as vital goods. We cannot risk being outside this world-leading nuclear co-operation system. I hope that the Minister will not allow some hang-up over the ECJ to blind the Government to a sensible way ahead. Together, I am sure we can work it out—but the Government must take a lead.

Taylor Review of Modern Working Practices

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for repeating the Statement on the review of modern working practices. We all look forward to studying it carefully and working with all concerned to respond to these new ways of working, as over time we have done with the invention of printing, photocopying, computers, mobiles and the internet. Working together we can make new technology and changing demands work for the whole of society.

However, I fear that the Government’s Statement looks only at two parts of the market: workers and business. There is in fact a vital third limb: the consumer or customer. I happen not to use Uber, one of the best known of the gig institutions, but many consumers do, including women, who often do not like to hang around on street corners trying to hail a taxi and who appreciate not having to carry cash in order to hire a cab. But it is not in their interest for a driver to be overtired, unwell or underinsured, and at work only because of pressing economic needs. Consumers need to feel safe, with a driver who is fit and healthy, awake and concentrating, and not worrying about their next fare; and they want to know that the driver is getting a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work.

Other parts of the gig economy may not have face-to-face consumers in the same way, but all have customers of the firm’s business, who similarly need to be assured of the quality of the work, which is highly dependent on the motivation and decent conditions of what the report calls “dependent contractors”. It is true that contented workers make for higher-quality work. So as the Government digest the report, will they involve the consumers and customers of such services in addition to the other key players?

Will the Minister also undertake to involve trade unions fully in this work, which would help the Government as well as the people concerned? Traditionally, of course, vulnerable and exploited workers have had their standards raised and their rights protected through the intervention of trade unions. But as we know, for obvious reasons workers in these sectors are a real challenge to recruit. There have been other similar areas in the past where wages councils played an invaluable role. While I hope that the unions will seek to represent this group, we should be realistic and acknowledge how difficult that is and therefore we need other avenues for unions to be able to speak on behalf of these workers. The report calls for additional protections for gig workers and greater incentives for firms to treat them fairly, including through strong employment relations, but this will need trade union input. I hope that the Minister can give a clear assurance that this will happen.

I want to make one other point. The report does little to strengthen the ability of workers to enforce the rights they already have, beyond shifting the burden of proof in one case when determining the employment contract. The Minister and this House know that the level of employment tribunal fees is a real barrier to justice, so we will continue to press for the fees to be abolished. The Minister has repeated the commitment to workers’ rights, but without their ability to enforce them through tribunals, those rights are really just pieces of paper. It is in no one’s interest for this group to be exploited, but it will need a commitment on the part of the Government to ensure that that does not happen. This is an important area for the future of the economy, for the workers concerned, and for us as consumers.

At first read—and it is only a first read—the report does seem to be somewhat tame and appears to be a missed opportunity to grasp the challenge looking forward to the rest of this century of the contribution that the gig economy can make. The Government need to take up the challenge of grounding in the expectations of all employers the need to treat this group of workers fairly and preserve their rights. We will be looking to the Government to work with all stakeholders to ensure that the change in culture as well as regulation will ensure that this part of the economy is fair for all concerned.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, this report is welcome as it frames the need to reconsider working conditions in a clear manner. I should like to quote from it that,

“while having employment is itself vital to people’s health and well-being, the quality of people’s work is also a major factor in helping people to stay healthy and happy, something which benefits them and serves the wider public interest”.

This is an important and true statement that we should bear in mind when considering not only this report but the wider realm of employment and industrial strategy. We are living in a time of huge change in the world of work, so the Prime Minister was right to ask Matthew Taylor to carry out an independent review and produce a report. As noble Lords will have noted when I dropped it just now, the resulting document is comprehensive and hard to absorb in the short time we have had to do so.

The Government’s Statement points out that the report highlights the need to deliver additional protection to the increasing number of people we describe as platform-based, or rather, what we know as the gig economy. The most important distinction to make is between the creation of a new group of workers or dependent contractors and those who are truly self-employed. While this may seem to be tame to some, it is starting to move down the road of classifying people in a way that enables them to have the rights they deserve. So it should be no surprise that the Liberal Democrats broadly welcome the recommendations in the Taylor review. The right to request fixed hours and employment rights for those who are now classified as dependent contractors was set out in the Lib Dem manifesto, so obviously we support that. If enacted, it will provide additional protections for this group as well as strong incentives for firms to treat these workers fairly. It is clear that these rules will have to be backed up by policing. That will improve workers’ rights in the gig economy while maintaining flexibility for those who want it, and that is the key. Some people want flexibility, but others have it thrust upon them. Noble Lords may remember that the Government opposed these proposals during the coalition Government.

We should also remember of course that workers’ rights are ultimately underpinned by EU law. This is backed up by the UK’s ability to create and protect high-quality jobs, which in itself is dependent on the UK being part of the single market. As noble Lords would expect me to say, under Theresa May’s Brexit plans we will continue to see falling real wages and slowing economic growth, and jobs will begin to fall back. This is bad for all workers but it is worse for these workers. Furthermore, there are some people—including on the Benches opposite—who will seek to use Brexit not to strengthen workers’ rights, but to weaken or even abolish some of them.

That is why it is important for the Government not to get bogged down in this report and to move swiftly. The Minister has pledged to respond by the end of the year. We look forward to the industrial strategy and how that will play into this. We believe it is important that the Government proceed rapidly to a conclusion that accepts the clear direction of this report and brings forward proposals that will enact its substance. The longer the Government delay, the longer this important and growing band of workers will be deprived of justified employment rights. The longer the Government delay, the more suspicions will be raised that Brexit will be used to water down people’s rights. As the report says:

“All work in the UK economy should be fair and decent with realistic scope for development and fulfilment”.


We hope the Government accept that point and bring forward rules and laws that help to bring it about.

Brexit: Consumer Rights Policy

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to protect consumer rights after the United Kingdom leaves the European Union.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Prior of Brampton) (Con)]

My Lords, we are working with a range of stakeholders to understand the impact that withdrawal from the EU will have on consumers. We will work to ensure the best possible outcome for UK consumers. Wherever practical, the great repeal Bill will convert current EU law into domestic law to give consumers as much certainty as possible.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, the EU has been good for consumers: we have the European health card—there are some 26 million in the country—safe food and products, because of the European rapid alert system; lower mobile roaming charges; and compensation for delayed flights. But despite what the Minister says, none of those can be entrenched in the great repeal Bill, because they depend on our negotiations with the remaining 27. Regrettably, consumer interest does not appear in the 12 negotiating principles in the Government’s White Paper. Will someone in the Minister’s department or another department undertake to set up the same meetings with consumer reps as are taking place with industry, so that consumer interests can be embedded into our negotiations for our relationships with the EU 27 after we leave?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, the great repeal Bill will incorporate consumer protections in the European Union into UK domestic law, wherever it is practical. Noble Lords may shake their heads at that but of course it is “wherever practical”; if we were to say that we would incorporate it where it is impractical, the noble Baroness would be the first person to point it out—this is a perfectly common-sense approach. In terms of ensuring that consumer interests are properly represented, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is having regular meetings with consumer representatives and we will ensure that consumer interests are properly represented in the negotiations.

Brexit: Consumer Rights Policy

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have held with representatives of consumer bodies about the continued protection of consumer rights following the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

Ministers and officials frequently meet representatives from a range of consumer bodies to discuss issues of the day, including EU exit, and we will continue to do so. Details of ministerial meetings are published quarterly on the GOV.UK website. The Government see no reason why the UK’s departure from the EU should have significant adverse effects on consumer rights in this country.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, we read at the weekend that consumers are already worried about what this will mean for their prices—but there are other rights at risk, such as consumer redress being possible in this country for goods made abroad, victims of accidents in another member state being able to use our courts to pursue insurance claims, air passengers getting compensation for delays and cancellations, and also the many others we have because we are part of a consumer alert system for faulty or dangerous goods. So may I ask the Minister to agree to undertake an audit of EU consumer protections that are at risk after Brexit, and also to meet relevant consumer organisations to see how to reduce the risk of losing those protections?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, next week the Secretary of State for BEIS is chairing a round table with representatives from a range of consumer bodies and charities, and academics, to discuss, among other things, the impact of EU exit on consumers. These are exactly the sorts of issues that he will want to look at. Of course, the great repeal Bill, which has already been mentioned, will convert EU consumer law into UK law wherever practical, and we will want to ensure that cross-border enforcement is effective, and that our ADR landscape is preserved. These are important aspects of a consumer framework which is very strong: we should be proud of it in this country.

Waterson Review

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

As always, my noble friend makes some powerful points. He will be glad to know that the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport has asked for a round table to be held with the industry on this matter next week, on 30 November, in order to bring together all the interested parties to look at the issue of bots following very useful discussions on the Digital Economy Bill.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lord, the Minister told me in May this year that the response to Waterson would be coming in due course but we are still being given the same answer. Meanwhile, the law, passed in this House and elsewhere, is being flouted. Justin Bieber tickets on sale at £70 can be bought for £1,600, while a £127 rugby ticket is selling at £1,250. None of these people are keeping to the law because they are not giving the information. Given the Government’s very welcome ban on letting agents charging tenants fees, will the Minister take similar action to deal with ticket touts?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I have already explained that we are looking at the problem of bots, which has delayed the formal response to the report, but of course, we published the report straightaway and action is beginning to be taken. I do not recommend that consumers pay such prices. The report makes it clear that there is also a duty on the part of primary ticket sellers to think about how they can distribute tickets in a sensible way, perhaps by holding ballots or selling to fans. I know the disappointment this can bring—I have seen my own nieces in tears because they could not get tickets—but sometimes tickets do become available later. However, this is an important issue and that is why we spoke to Professor Waterson. The bots issue is very much on our minds and we are looking at it to see if the existing law on computer misuse is adequate.