Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Wheatcroft

Committee stage
Tuesday 28th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

The Bill sunsets in 2023.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

The Minister says she can confirm that all significant regulations are on the dashboard, because it is authoritative. However, if it is not comprehensive, and work is still going on to see what regulations should be on the dashboard, how can she confirm that all the important regulations are there?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Departments have been looking at these regulations for a number of years. Some time ago, when I was previously a Minister, I was looking at the regulations to see how they might be changed post Brexit. I have tried to explain that we have 3,700 regulations. They have been gone through and most of the regulations are there, but we are also looking with the National Archives to see if there are others. If they are known only to the National Archives, the chances of them being really important is—to express a personal view—probably quite small, but of course I could be proved wrong.

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Wheatcroft

Monday 9th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft]

I thank my noble friend Lord Hodgson and I support him in his amendment because it finds the balance between being overly prescriptive and legislating to give some comfort to pub owners, thus persuading them that it is safe for them to invest. I cannot support the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, in his amendment. It seems to be far too prescriptive for the Bill, as others have said, and somewhat contradictory. The Bill already states that a trigger event for an MRO will be something that was unforeseen. An investment agreement, by its very nature, will have to be something that is negotiated.

Surely there are pub owners and pub landlords who are capable of negotiating an investment agreement that suits both sides. I do not subscribe to the view that all pub owners are out to do the dirty on their tenants or that all tenants are weaklings. Indeed, the Pub Landlord, that character who is so well known to television viewers, is standing up to Nigel Farage in South Thanet, although it has to be said that that particular pub landlord has not been seen there very often.

We need to offer landlords some protection so that, if owners invest in their pubs, they will not immediately be forced into an MRO. The trigger, as cited in the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, would have that option. What sensible landlord is going to put money into his pub if the recipient could instantly trigger an MRO? There needs to be some scope for negotiation. My noble friend the Minister has shown that she is open to negotiation and consultation, and the amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Hodgson would be the best way forward. However, perhaps the Minister could reassure us that she sees the need for investment to be encouraged and that she will find a way of giving pub owners and landlords the protection they need in order to invest in their estate.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, and my noble friend Lord Hodgson for their amendments and for providing us with an opportunity to debate further the very important question of continued investment by pub-owning companies in tied pubs. That is especially the case because, as my noble friend Lord Hodgson has just said, pubs are having to reinvent themselves in the 21st century. As we have heard, these two amendments approach the issue in rather different ways, and I understand the motivations behind both. I can reassure the noble Lord and my noble friend that the Government absolutely want to see investment in tied pubs. That is key to the success of the industry, both for pub companies and for tenants. We want to see pubs thriving and the new arrangements to work.

I think we all accept that the possibility of pubs exercising the market rent only option will create some uncertainty for pub companies, and it is possible that there might be more uncertainty than they can live with if they are thinking of making a substantial investment in a pub. It is equally clear that there is some nervousness around asking tenants to defer some of their MRO rights in return for investment and that serious consideration needs to be given to how this would work in practice and the safeguards that need to be in place. As I said earlier in our debate, we have been considering how best to address this and strike the right balance. I can reassure my noble friend Lord Hodgson that the Bill as drafted does not prevent pub companies issuing the tenant with a new lease alongside an offer of investment, and no amendment to the Bill is necessary to enable companies to do so.

As my noble friend pointed out, a new agreement may attract costs for tenants, including legal costs and stamp duty.

The situation means that the MRO triggers on rent review or renewal would not be available to the tenant for a period of five years, as that is the maximum interval that the code will currently allow between rent assessments. It would, however, provide the pub company with some certainty. We recognise that there will be occasions where a larger investment—

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Wheatcroft

Monday 12th January 2015 Grand Committee

[Baroness Wheatcroft]

My Lords, I apologise for not being here at the beginning of proceedings, but I have to intervene on this. Consumer groups are extremely effective in making their views known. They lobby us very effectively and they certainly lobby the CMA. While it is right that the CMA should listen to them, I do not think that there needs to be any formalisation of that relationship when it is looking at legislation. On the second issue, the idea of an annual report on the state of competition in the economy, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, that this would be a massive undertaking for the CMA to have to complete every year. In fact, it is very hard to see how it would be able to undertake its main role if it had to produce that report on an annual basis. It also seems to me that because consumer groups now have the right to bring a super-complaint, there is a degree of duplication anyhow in the amendment. If consumer groups feel very strongly, they can make their super-complaint. Therefore, I take issue with the amendment.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, Clause 36 is important and I thank the noble Baroness for providing us with an opportunity to debate it. In our various dealings on other legislation, we have agreed on the importance of competition to consumers and the role that consumers play in making competition a reality. The Government are very keen on competition and I am not going to try at this late hour to engage in the philosophical debate between my noble friend Lord Deben and the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, both of whom have great experience of regulation, regulators and competition. Indeed, I learned from the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, during the passage of the Water Bill, when I was on the Back Benches. I am clear, however, that the Government want to ensure that the powers are in place to effect proper competition. I hope this clause will be a significant contribution to that, empowering the CMA formally for the first time to make recommendations on legislation.

Amendment 35B relates to consulting consumer groups. The CMA is the independent, expert competition body. It is the body best placed to assess the likely impacts on competition of legislative proposals. In considering proposals from Government, it will take into account their impact on consumers. This is a key value and it is enshrined in the CMA’s primary duty as set out in the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013. This states that,

“the CMA must seek to promote competition, both within and outside the United Kingdom, for the benefit of consumers”.

Consumer advocacy groups have a valuable and vital role to play in scrutinising proposals brought to Parliament. That will continue and they can make their views on proposals known as and when they see fit. As the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, rightly said, they often do that in many different ways. The CMA works closely with consumer advocacy groups, including Which? and the Citizens Advice service. CAB is also an active member of the Consumer Protection Partnership, although, sadly, Which? chose not to join it. The CPP brings together publicly funded enforcement, advocacy and advice organisations to share, compare and interpret intelligence to identify trends in the causes of consumer detriment. Regular scheduled meetings of this group and its sub-group are held throughout the year, and it plays an important role.

The CMA’s main responsibility is to ensure that competition and markets work well for consumers. That is one of the main reasons we value competition: it leads to better deals for consumers by encouraging innovation, new products, new ways of doing things and more competitive prices. In its annual plan for 2014 the CMA made a commitment to put consumers at the heart of everything it does. It is embedding this approach in its thinking and processes across the organisation, as well as establishing a programme to reach out to consumers and to a wide range of consumer organisations. An example of the success of that approach is the low income consumers project, where the CMA engaged actively with the CPP and other organisations that have a role in protecting consumers to review how problem debt affects consumers’ decisions and choices regarding the goods and services they purchase. There is also a practical timing point in response to this amendment. Requiring the CMA to consult others before making use of its new power would inevitably delay the timeliness of its recommendations, which might in turn diminish its influence and impact on new legislation.

Amendment 35C relates to an annual competition health check in collaboration with consumer advocacy groups and representatives of small business. Well functioning markets work for consumers, business and the economy, and for small business. The aim of the CMA is to make markets function in that way and to promote competition. In understanding markets and establishing priorities, it is of course important that the CMA takes into account the views of interested parties, including consumer advocacy groups and small business. However, effective mechanisms are already in place to achieve that. The intelligence gathered by the CMA through its engagement helps to inform its annual business plan. On 26 November it published its draft annual plan for consultation, and its strategic assessment was published the following day. The draft version of that plan sets out plans and priorities for the coming year. The consultation gave interested parties, including small business, the opportunity to provide views and comments on the proposed priorities. The consultation period closes on 23 January and a final version of the plan will be published in March.

The CMA has limited resources, and it is important that it is focused in the most effective way. New and effective mechanisms are already in place to enable it to gather intelligence, including vital consumer intelligence. The introduction of a new duty to produce an annual competition health check would divert resources away from tackling problems in markets that have already been identified, which at present, of course, include banking and energy. In view of the comments that the noble Baroness made, I am sure that she welcomes that. The CMA inquiry is a very important moment for the energy market. The independent and authoritative analysis that the CMA will bring will start rebuilding trust. The investigation is looking at many very important issues: barriers to entry, the impact of vertical integration, market power in generation, and weak incentives for companies to compete in retail markets, including of course any lack of consumer engagement.

To conclude, therefore, we are doing enough, and the provisions in the Bill should be welcome, although I suspect that we may not agree this evening. I am very grateful for the support of my noble friends Lord Deben and Lady Wheatcroft, and other noble Lords, on this important amendment. In the circumstances, I hope that the noble Baroness will agree to withdraw her amendment.

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Baroness Wheatcroft

Wednesday 7th January 2015 Grand Committee

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Con)]

My Lords, I take issue with these amendments. What we do not need is another report into the problems that small businesses face. There is no shortage of information on these problems, not least from the Federation of Small Businesses, to which the noble Lord referred. We know what the issues are. There is not enough finance available for small businesses. One of the things that this Bill attempts to do is make access to finance easier. It also includes lots of measures that will help small and medium-sized businesses. However, what those businesses need is action now, not another delay while another report is produced. As we get regular feedback on what the legislation does, that will become more than apparent. Organisations such as the federation will not hesitate to make clear what they think about what the Government are doing. This would be just another bureaucratic exercise when what we need is action.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

My Lords, Amendment 1 asks that we report on the long-term needs of small and medium-sized businesses. In moving it, the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, touched on the wider issues surrounding small business. I do not want to give the Committee another Second Reading speech. A lot of the issues that the noble Lord raised will come up on the various amendments that we discuss today, but I feel that we have done more to help small business than any Government before. This Bill is the latest evidence of that process.

In particular, I refute the claim that the Government are not doing enough to increase lending to small businesses. While the annualised figures remain negative, the tide is turning and there is a significant upward trend. According to the SME Finance Monitor report of November 2014, 71% of all loan and overdraft applications within the previous 18 months were successful. We support small business in many ways. Of course, a recovering economy—which this demonstrates—after probably the worst recession in history is a very important way to help entrepreneurs.

Turning to the amendment, first and foremost, through our industrial strategy the Government are working in partnership with industry to understand the future needs of all businesses and to set the long-term strategic direction. In each of our sector strategies we have joined forces with industry to set ambitions for the sector and our commitment is to invest in helping firms—including small firms—to access finance, skills, innovation and export opportunities so that we can compete internationally. I share the noble Lord’s aspirations for international success.

As well as engagement, we undertake in-depth research and analysis every year to fully understand small and medium-sized business needs. I draw attention in particular to the Small Business Survey, BIS’s flagship annual research project. Results from this are used to develop our business support policy and are also published so that private sector organisations working with small businesses can benefit from the insights. The survey is considered the country’s foremost source of knowledge about small business needs and is widely referenced.

Amendment 1 refers to specific areas of policy relating to small business. This is a good list and I take this opportunity to reassure the noble Lord that the Government are already researching and reporting on the needs of small businesses in these areas. I will give some examples. Last year, the British Business Bank published its strategic plan, setting out a long-term vision for the organisation that will deliver for smaller firms. Only last month, the bank published its first report on trends in business finance markets. The market gaps identified through this in-depth market analysis are feeding into the bank’s product development process. Important and interesting conclusions include the following: more businesses will seek finance for growth; a more diverse and vibrant supply of finance is needed—this Bill helps with that; and awareness and understanding of the range of finance options is not yet comprehensive enough. I am placing a copy of the report in the House Library. We expect future reports to be published on an annual basis.

Secondly, last year, UKTI published Britain Open for Business, an update to its five-year strategy for providing practical help to exporters. UKTI last year worked with 42,684 SMEs to provide a range of services designed to help companies enter new markets. This hands-on relationship allows UKTI to understand and catalogue the needs and challenges faced by these companies and to develop specific programmes to overcome perceived barriers to exporting. Last year, this included a first-time exporter’s package, a medium-sized business programme and an e-exporting initiative.