Living Standards: Inequality

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Tuesday 7th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I thank my noble friend for that question. I believe that the national living wage, brought in in April last year, is a fantastic example of policies that the Government have introduced to make work pay. Looking forward, it will rise again, to £7.50 next month, and it has already given many working people in Britain the fastest pay rise in 20 years.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, observers will have noticed that there is a startling contradiction between the presumption in the Question that income inequality has been growing very sharply and the presumption in the reply that it is doing the opposite. There are different measures, but most of them show that inequality is growing. Would it not be useful if the ONS convened a panel to get a little more clarity as to why figures can be bandied around that give such different descriptions of what is happening?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I think the ONS keeps us honest; it looks at these figures over time and very helpfully updates us. The OBR forecasts are also updated all the time so that we can see what is happening. I come back to the point that the Resolution Foundation is looking at a forecast, but if we look at what has happened, five years ago it was predicted by the IFS, I think, that there would be a rise in inequality. In fact, that has not happened. Actually, things have continued to progress and we have seen a recovery. That is what we need to continue by having the right policies, which this Government are pursuing under our new Prime Minister.

Nissan: Sunderland

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Monday 31st October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I am certainly not aware of any special arrangements for the apprenticeship levy. As I made clear, the sort of arrangements which I outlined in relation to training, skills and innovation are an across-the-board approach which Nissan is obviously welcoming. I know my noble friend’s interest in the north-west and how important it is to him that we ensure investment in Cumbria, not only in nuclear but in manufacturing and other areas.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not abundantly clear that what was worrying Nissan was the repeated statement that “Brexit means Brexit”? Is it not equally clear, from today’s Statement, that Brexit does not mean Brexit and that the absence of access to the internal market and the customs union was starting to worry the management of Nissan? If these guarantees are now being given—and we hope that people on the continent will accept them, which is another question which I have not heard much about—can this be replicated in other sectors? At the end of all this, I hope the agreement with the European Union will include a lot of industrial policy and, as my noble friend Lord Liddle said, that things will be much nearer to acceptance of the internal market and customs union.

Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Monday 6th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, the debate has clearly shown that the House is united in approving the intentions of the Bill. It is pleasing to introduce a Bill with widespread support in this House.

The Hague Convention may be 60 years old, but, as so many have said, we are discussing UK ratification at a time when its effects and measures are all too relevant. Precious artefacts have been destroyed and many others are under threat. Ratification makes an unequivocal statement about the UK’s position on the destruction of cultural heritage and allows us to do all we can to prevent such actions and, if necessary, to prosecute malefactors.

However, a number of noble Lords—my noble friends Lord Renfrew and Lord Borwick and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson—have said that the Bill is a little too narrow and that we should be more ambitious. I do not see it that way. I celebrate the fact that this Bill is in the Queen’s Speech after so many years of disappointment. It is ready early in the Session; it has been consulted on; it has the benefit of input from the expert and the wise; and it will introduce the necessary changes to UK law to enable the UK to ratify the convention and accede to its two protocols. It will complement and augment the strong cultural property legislation that already exists in the UK and is accompanied by an ambitious programme of initiatives to support the protection of global heritage, including the cultural protection fund. So let us get it on to the statute book.

I thank my noble friend Lord Renfrew for his words. We are fortunate to have in him one of the world’s leading experts in archaeological theory and paleolinguistics, who has already done so much valuable work relating to the looting of archaeological sites. We are also lucky to have the input of the all-party parliamentary groups and committees on archaeology, culture and the arts. These grace this House and I am grateful to all noble Lords who contribute to their proceedings, including my noble friend Lord Cormack. I was glad to see him here and sorry to hear about the death of his colleagues from Lincoln—home of such a wonderful cathedral.

As one would expect from such a distinguished and knowledgeable gathering, many great points have been made and a number of challenges raised, some of which we will have to come back to in Committee. However, perhaps I could respond in four key areas—the military, international issues, the art market and the cultural protection fund.

Concerns have been raised about this legislation placing yet another burden on British soldiers. However, as has been said, the Ministry of Defence and our Armed Forces already act as if bound by the Hague Convention, and respect for cultural property is upheld across the UK’s Armed Forces in military law, our targeting policy, training and in-battle area evaluation and assessment. My department has worked closely with the Ministry of Defence in preparing the Bill. I was glad that the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, mentioned the “monuments woman” and centenarian, Anne Olivier Bell. The joint military cultural property working group is still developing the concept of this unit. It will start to recruit specialists into the Army Reserve in the near future pending final approval.

Of course, the obligations are not absolute. The convention and Second Protocol provide that they may be waived in cases where military necessity imperatively requires it, such as if cultural property has, by its function, been made into a military objective or there is no feasible alternative available to secure a similar military advantage. It is important to note that, under the Bill, in order to commit an offence of a serious breach of the Second Protocol, a soldier must know that the property to which the Act relates is cultural property. This would protect a soldier from prosecution in circumstances where it really was not apparent that the property was cultural property. That is a long way of confirming in response to the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath—Bath being one of the world’s greatest heritage sites—that it is the Government’s view that the Bill will not constrain the military or have any negative consequences for UK soldiers or their commanders.

My noble friend Lord Balfe said that 30 years in prison seems too long a time for just destroying a building. I touched on the logic for this in my opening speech. The maximum sentence of 30 years is comparable with other similar sentences in UK law. The International Criminal Court Act 2001 covers war crimes, including directing attacks on certain buildings or monuments, which are punishable by up to 30 years’ imprisonment.

Turning to the international aspect, a number of noble Lords have rightly deplored the destruction of cultural heritage by Daesh. I share these sentiments. In raising revenue Daesh relies primarily on oil sales, internal taxation, extortion and kidnap for ransom. It also derives a much smaller amount of funding from other sources such as foreign donations and, yes, of course, the excavation and removal of antiquities.

My noble friend Lord Borwick asked a number of questions about the Bill. The intention of the Bill is to introduce legislation that will enable the UK to ratify the 1954 Hague Convention and accede to its two protocols. We have been guided by the convention and protocols to ensure that we have fully met the obligations they set out and have drafted the Bill in the simplest way we can. The definition of “unlawfully exported” used in the Bill does not necessarily equate to whether or not an item has an export licence.

My noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Renfrew, are right—the UK does not recognise Daesh or the Taliban as a state. Sanctions already exist for cultural property illegally exported from Syria and Iraq since March 2011 and August 1990 respectively. These sanctions prohibit, among other things, the importing, exporting and trading in such objects, and breaching these prohibitions is already a criminal offence under UK law. The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, made a related point to which I am sure he will return in Committee.

Ratifying the Hague Convention would be a strong public statement of the UK’s commitment to international humanitarian law and cultural heritage and will further strengthen the UK’s international leadership on this subject. Taken together with the other government initiatives, passage of the Bill will demonstrate that we condemn all instances of cultural destruction and illicit trade in antiquities.

My noble friend Lady Mobarik asked about the cultural protection fund. Our objective is to help to create opportunities for economic and social development through building capacity to foster, safeguard and promote cultural heritage in conflict-affected regions overseas. Applications will be welcome for projects which support the protection of heritage that particularly matters to the people in the countries affected or—this is important—tells the story of the peoples that once lived there.

The noble Baroness also made an important point about the role of UK museums. I especially commend the work of the Glasgow museum, which she described so well, and other museum services which are engaged in diaspora communities around the country. These play an important part in understanding our shared heritage.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bonham-Carter, gave the Bill warm support, for which I am grateful. She rightly professed her concerns about the Yazidis. We, too, remain extremely concerned about the barbarity of Daesh relating to that important people. She shared her experience of Libya and Yemen, which I know much less about. She made a number of suggestions for bringing in funds from around the world. I am glad that she mentioned the Channel 4 documentary, which I must make sure I see before we move into Committee.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

Before the noble Baroness leaves the point about Yemen raised by the noble Baroness—

Press Regulation

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Tuesday 26th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I am not sure that I am allowed to do this, but I must recommend this report as excellent reading. It is a very clear summary—I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Best, and the committee on it—and one of the good things is that it encourages regular review and reporting; of course the Press Recognition Panel will report each year.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

Are the Government seriously saying that they are implementing Leveson?

Trade Unions

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Thursday 19th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

My Lords, before I respond, I join the House in congratulating my noble friend Lord Robathan and the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, on their excellent maiden speeches. I will not repeat the tributes, in the interests of time, but I am very excited by the wealth of experience that they bring. We know from today that they will hugely improve the quality of discussion in our House.

I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for initiating this debate. I am aware that he has a deep interest in the performance of our economy. I much enjoyed his speech, including his historical perspective. Of course, that was picked up on by so many noble Lords that it would take too long to list them all. However, I should say that I did medieval history for A-level, and I then did industrial relations as my special subject at university. Therefore, I have to say that I am a bit sceptical about some of the comments he made on productivity—the sorts of things he mentioned can actually increase costs and slow necessary change—but it is good to have a debate on these issues in this House.

I should also respond to the noble Lord, Lord Monks. As a south-westerner, I am looking forward to visiting the Tolpuddle flag with him—I suppose that going to see a Tolpuddle flag is the Labour equivalent of seeing etchings.

I am pleased also to talk about unions and their role in the modern economy. We have heard many examples of how unions help working people prosper in our society, in particular in an excellent speech from the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby. I was struck by the parallel that he sought to draw with the church, including the challenge of the non-joining culture. He talked also of good partnership and the importance of stamping out modern slavery. That is an area where the Government, with the help of this House, have made radical changes. From October, the Modern Slavery Act has provided law enforcers with additional tools, including the two new civil orders, and the anti-slavery commissioner. I commend the right reverend Prelate’s own contribution in this area, and I was glad to hear also from the noble Lord, Lord Young, on the subject.

This is a free country. Everybody has the right to belong to a trade union. Equally, there is no compulsion in the workplace to do so. Closed shops are a thing of the past. I was glad to hear from my noble friend Lord Balfe about trade unionism in the Conservative Party. I agree with him that there can be value in backing more than one horse. The Government also recognise that trade unions can play a constructive role in developing the economy and, as I know only too well from my experience, in supporting employers in upskilling their staff.

On economic well-being, I should perhaps say to the noble Lord, Lord Monks, that, although he and I are often in agreement—I pay great tribute to the work that he has done in Europe over the years, as well as in the UK—I do not agree with his summary of the position of the UK today. We were the fastest-growing G7 economy in 2014. Our employment rate and our small business creation are the envy of other member states, and we are number two in the INSEAD-WIPO Global Innovation Index.

I turn to the point made so well by the noble Baroness, Lady Burt: the trade unions have played a very important part where industrial restructuring has had to be done. She spoke rightly about the role that they played during Jaguar’s difficulties in Solihull, and the noble Lord, Lord Hoyle, was right to talk about how the success of the modern car industry owes much to good industrial relations. I suppose that it is right to reflect that the current steel crisis is another example of good engagement by the trade unions. Their input in Redcar, in Scunthorpe and in Scotland before, during and after the steel summit in Rotherham last month has been invaluable.

I commend the point made by my noble friend Lord Robathan about his work with the unions in the Ministry of Defence, as I do the efforts of my noble friend Lord De Mauley and the good relations that he had with the trade unions in Defra, using that relationship to solve the perennial problem of dangerous dogs and postal workers. I know that, if he were here, my noble friend Lord Maude would pay tribute to the positive role played by the unions over public sector pension reforms and in the public services forum.

I agree about the long history of unions providing learning for their members. This is important, as the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, explained so well in a very thoughtful speech. My noble friend Lord Balfe talked about Unionlearn, the learning and skills organisation of the TUC, which is an excellent example of how unions help their members, employers and the country with skills development. Unionlearn has helped engage more than 53 trade unions in more than 700 workplaces. It has helped establish 600 union learning centres, where Unionlearn representatives help those with low literacy. As the noble Baroness, Lady Prosser, said, it also helps older workers, which is a very important point. In the past two years, Unionlearn projects have also helped to recruit and support nearly 15,000 apprentices. My noble friend asked about the Government’s support for Unionlearn. We provided the TUC with a grant of £14 million in 2015. It is an important area, and any decision on funding beyond that will of course be subject to the outcome of the spending review.

We have a target of 3 million apprenticeships during this Parliament. Frances O’Grady, the general secretary of the TUC, whom I was lucky enough to meet yesterday, has already said that she sees a role for unions in ensuring the quality of apprenticeships. We welcome this, and the input from the TUC and from the noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, on the new levy—the noble Lord and I have had many discussions about apprenticeships over the years and the new levy provides opportunities for all of us to contribute.

There are many important examples of where the unions have played a role beyond the direct well-being of their members. I know from experience of retail of the important cultural role that they play in health and safety. That was rightly mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Morris of Handsworth. Health and safety is very important, and it has improved hugely in my lifetime. I remember health and safety on farms as a young lass; some of it was fairly hairy.

Trade union members also participate in the many voluntary roles which help create cohesive communities—a point that was brought out so well by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, spoke of the gender pay gap and the work of unions over the years in this area. Although there is more to do, it was good to see that the recent 2015 survey of hours and earnings showed that the gender pay gap is at an all-time low. There is now a record number of women-led businesses and, partly as a result of the excellent, business-led work under the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Abersoch, there are now no all-male boards in the FTSE 100. More generally, we are seeking to tackle the root causes that prevent women prospering in the workplace by providing a wider programme of support, introducing 30 hours of free childcare and giving nearly 21 million employees the ability to benefit from flexible working. Our approach is producing results, with an increase of nearly 1 million women in work between May 2010 and August 2015.

On current trade union reform, the noble Lord, Lord Monks, and others were right to say that this debate is a calm curtain-raiser to the Trade Union Bill, which was recently given its First Reading in our House. My noble friend Lord Callanan was right to talk about the consumer view and point to the problems that can be caused by the trade unions.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

Before the Minister leaves that point, does she agree with her noble friend Lord Callanan, who said that trade unions by their nature are against the consumer interest by being producers? That is exactly what he said.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, I was about to turn to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lea, on this issue. He referred, I believe, to a model of balance between consumer, producer and union interests and I share that general aspiration. I believe strongly in the power of well-run businesses, with good workforces, to do good, to serve consumers and to provide the taxes we need to pay for the schools, hospitals and everything else that a modern society requires.

As a parent and a grandparent, I know that when teachers go on strike, children’s education is disrupted and parents need to take time off work to look after their children. When healthcare workers strike, appointments are cancelled and patients do not get the service they deserve. When train, bus or underground workers strike, commuters cannot get to work. Even so, this Government are not seeking to ban strikes. We are introducing thresholds to require a minimum 50% turnout for all strikes, and the support of at least 40% of those entitled to strike in important public services.

I do not agree with the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Dykes. We must ensure that when strikes take place, particularly strikes that impact on the working families to which he referred, the strikers have the support of a reasonable number of the workforce. As my noble friend Lord de Mauley said, the public sector strikes in 2011 closed 62% of schools in England, and the NHS—I am not sure that he said this—cancelled up to 30,000 routine operations. The Treasury estimated the total impact of these strikes to be some £500 million. So, in reply to the question asked by my noble friend, that is not fair and it is not right.

Nor is it right that in 2014, the NUT closed or partly closed almost 1,500 schools; or that a strike among NHS workers was called by Unite on the basis of the support of only 12% of its members. Similarly, we have examples of strikes called on the basis of out-of-date ballots. For example, a strike undertaken by the NASUWT in October 2013 was based on a ballot mandate from November 2011. That is a difference of almost two years. It cannot be right.

That is why we have introduced the Trade Union Bill, which we will debate shortly. As others have not sought to run through the detail, I shall not do so either. However, I emphasise that the Bill seeks to strike a fair and effective balance between the rights of unions, the needs of employers and the interests of the majority of people who rely on important public services. Our aim is to provide a modern industrial relations framework to better support an effective, collaborative approach—which has been the sense of today’s debate and my own experience—and to resolve industrial disputes.

The Government recognise that trade unions have a valuable role to play in developing our workforce and in ensuring that the vulnerable are able to participate in work. We have heard many good examples of this today. I have stressed the importance of trade unions and why I believe it is right that the legislative framework needs reform. We are seeking through the Trade Union Bill to modernise the relationship between trade unions and their members and to redress the balance between the rights of trade unions and the rights of the general public. These are moderate, necessary and welcome reforms. They do not ban the right to strike and do not weaken the voice of working people or their ability to join trade unions.

We pledged to undertake these reforms in our manifesto and we have brought the Bill forward as a party that believes in trade unions. We are, as my noble friend Lord Balfe said, proud to win the support of many trade union members at elections. We want trade unions to carry on doing their excellent work in so many areas.

Employment: Elite Professions

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Thursday 18th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I do not entirely agree with the noble Baroness. In England I believe that we have a sustainable and fair higher education system based on affordable student loans. That is despite dire predictions in this House and elsewhere. I defer to my noble friend Lord Faulks on legal aid. There are opportunities in the professions and the legal and professional firms are really making some progress in trying to widen things. We must encourage them to do that rather than complaining about it.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister, who seems to be an expert on hot air, aware of the report just a couple of days ago on this matter in the Financial Times—not noted for its hot air—which reports that one of the employers on this very question of bias in recruitment said, “Some of these people did not go to public schools, so they would not understand our public school jokes”? Well, they wouldn’t, would they?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I am not clear what question I am supposed to be responding to. You have to remember that it is not surprising that leading professions and companies seek to recruit from top universities as well as other universities—they are doing both. I speak as a businesswoman when I say that companies need students and candidates with social skills, persistence, know-how and brain power. As I said in reply to the Question, it is very good news that we now have a record level of disadvantaged students entering higher education. This cannot be a one-sided debate.

BBC Royal Charter

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Thursday 4th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, war has not been declared on the BBC. The BBC makes an enormous and valuable contribution to many people’s lives as the nation’s broadcaster and in its overseas services, with 308 million people around the world and 96% of the UK population watching it each week. It is also a very well-understood and supported cultural institution, which I know is important to this House. The arrangements will be looked at fully and from every perspective in the charter review. I think the process starts today with the kind of comments that I know will be made in this House.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that it is a bit rich for many members of the Conservative Party to complain when the BBC does not reflect everything said by the Daily Mail, when, as far as I can see, it is compelled each morning to regurgitate everything said by the Daily Mail, the Daily Telegraph, the Daily Express, the Sun et cetera on “What the Papers Say”?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, the underlying point is about impartiality. The BBC is required by the royal charter and agreement to deliver impartial news. Under the terms of the agreement, the BBC must do all it can to ensure that controversial subjects are treated with due accuracy and due impartiality. This is, of course, one of the issues for the charter review. I think there has been some long-standing suspicion that the views are sometimes skewed, and not in a way favourable to our party.

Industry: International Investment

Debate between Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Lord Lea of Crondall

Tuesday 2nd June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the United Kingdom’s market share of international investment in the manufacturing and service industries under the European Union’s existing regulatory regime.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Departments for Business, Innovation and Skills and for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Neville-Rolfe) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has cemented its strong position for attracting foreign direct investment in Europe, being ranked by the OECD as the number one destination in 2014. The OECD’s estimates show that the UK received $72 billion of foreign direct investment flows.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply. This illustrates that under the existing EU rules—and I could say the same about other matters under the existing rules—Germany and France have 25% higher productivity than we do. German exports are three times greater than ours. It is therefore not the so-called EU red tape that stops them doing that. That leads to two questions. First, is it not clear that our economic redemption in this country lies in our own hands even under, broadly, the existing EU rules, which we played a major part in writing?

Secondly, in order that the debate on the referendum on us staying in or getting out is evidence-based rather than just claim and counterclaim, not least on the impact of international investment, do Her Majesty’s Government agree that our electorate are entitled to hear objective assessments from a body such as the Office for Budget Responsibility rather than simply leaving them at the mercy of the objectivity of the Daily Mail?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, improving productivity is indeed one of the key economic challenges for this Parliament. By the Budget, we will have published our productivity plan. Evidence is always useful and important in public policy, but the EU needs to change and become more competitive and the Prime Minister is determined to deliver that through the referendum that we promised to the British people.