Ukraine: Support

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 16th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

At the NATO Foreign Ministers’ meeting last week, there was a very clear request from the Ukrainian Foreign Minister for two things: first, the artillery shells to make sure that Ukraine stays in the fight against Russia in the days ahead but, secondly and crucially, air defences, particularly Patriot missile systems, which have been so effective. I know that action is being taken by us and others on both those subjects to make sure that we do everything that we can. My noble friend is absolutely right to point out how effective the Israeli anti-missile system was, and it shows what can be done if you have the right resources in place.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, reminds us about the UK commitment to Ukraine, and it is absolutely right that we keep focused on that. However, events at the weekend, and the fact that those Iranian drones did not succeed, remind us that many of the drones sent towards Ukraine from Russia are actually Iranian. What are His Majesty’s Government doing with allies to look at the relationship between Iran and Russia, and whether there is something that we can do, because we should not look at these incidents in isolation?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. We do not look at these things in isolation; in the contacts I have had with the Iranian Foreign Minister, we repeatedly make the point that supplying weapons to Russia is unacceptable. Over and above that, we are putting sanctions in place on every country and company that we can which we find is supplying these weapons. I am about to spend time at the G7 Foreign Ministers’ meeting, where there are specific proposals to look at what we can do together to make clear to the Iranians that there will be consequences if they continue to supply drones and more substantial missiles to Russia. We are working together on this and recognise the importance of dealing with it.

Genocide (Prevention and Response) Bill [HL]

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 22nd March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, it is pleasure to rise from these Benches to support the Private Member’s Bill in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws. It is also something of a relief that the debate on this Private Member’s Bill has been somewhat more consensual than that on the previous Bill, in which I found myself in the unusual position as being on the opposite side from the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, which was a slightly uncomfortable position to be in.

This is a Private Member’s Bill to which we have heard no opposition from any part of your Lordships’ House. We heard the Minister’s noble friend Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth say that he hopes that the Minister will bring some words of comfort from His Majesty’s Government. I have been in your Lordships’ House for nearly a decade. I have rarely heard from the Government Front Bench words that lead us to think that a Private Member’s Bill is going to be warmly accepted, but on this topic, I very much hope that the Minister will be able to give some positive responses.

Over many years the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton of Liverpool, have spent much of their time in your Lordships’ House, in ad hoc committees and in other places arguing that we need to take the crime of genocide seriously, calling on His Majesty’s Government to look at particular cases and acknowledge that they are, or could be considered, genocide. Although the present Bill is not about genocide determination, the House of Lords Library briefing for today reminds noble Lords of the words of the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, in previous debates.

We have heard many times that the Government are not able to act because the issue of genocide is for courts to determine—yet, as the present Bill and the Library briefing both make clear, under the genocide convention the Government have a duty to prevent genocide. It is not simply that we need to say, “We are not happy with this”; we have a duty to prevent and punish the crime of genocide. As the noble Lord, Lord Alton, pointed out, parliamentarians cannot do that—we cannot individually prevent or punish genocide—but His Majesty’s Government and other sovereign Governments are in a much better place, precisely because of their embassies and high commissions, to understand what is going on on the ground. The Bill, which I suggest is not as modest as some Private Members’ Bills—it is very ambitious—would pave the way for the Government to be able to do what the UK needs to do in performing its duties under the convention.

We have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Polak, a reminder that the Holocaust did not start with the gas chambers. The same has been true of other genocides. Something does not happen at the point where hundreds of thousands or millions of people are being killed or potentially fleeing for their lives; there is a much more insidious process. Recently, for our debate for Holocaust Memorial Day, the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust reminded Members, in a very helpful briefing, of the stages of genocide.

By the time your Lordships’ House talks about genocide, it is usually at a point where we are saying that there already is or has been genocide—in Darfur, of the Uighurs or of the Yazidis. We need to raise issues and find a vehicle for exploring the potential for genocide before it happens—before it is too late. We heard from my noble friend Lord Hussain that His Majesty’s Government need to look at the situation in Kashmir, and maybe the Foreign Secretary, for example, should be talking to his opposite number in New Delhi. We need to be thinking and exploring issues ahead of time, and the Bill gives us and the Government the opportunity to do that.

We have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Alton, about the situation in Darfur and how he has been told that there is further potential for a new genocide there. If one goes to Bosnia and Herzegovina, one finds that “remember Srebrenica” is not just a slogan; it is an everyday injunction. There is still concern there about Republika Srpska and concern on the ground about the situation. We should never be complacent as a Parliament or as a country.

The Bill offers His Majesty’s Government the opportunity to act, and it would hopefully empower the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, to do many of the things from the Front Bench that he has often said he wished he was able to do—but these things were for courts to decide and for other people to do. I am not sure I expect the Minister to accept the Bill as it is enshrined today, but perhaps he could give us some suggestion of the Government bringing forward their own proposals that would have the same purpose as this eminently welcome Private Member’s Bill.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2024 Grand Committee

The United Kingdom Government will continue to use sanctions to ramp up the pressure until Mr Putin ends his illegal invasion of Ukraine. Sanctions are working and the effects are cumulative; we must stay the course and keep up the strong work we have delivered over the last two years, working in tandem with our key partners and allies. We welcome the clear and continued cross-party support for this action, and I beg to move.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, obviously, from these Benches—or this Bench; it is just me—we welcome any extension of sanctions. As the noble Lord pointed out, since the illegal invasion of Ukraine, it has been necessary and appropriate to implement a wide range of sanctions, against both individuals and companies.

However, the Minister has already alluded to the fact that there is a degree of complexity with these particular sanctions. I therefore have a range of questions that are about not just sanctions with our G7 partners but looking more broadly at our European neighbours and Commonwealth countries, as well as at the impact on British companies in terms of how they deal with importing diamonds. Clearly, a sanction that says, “We’re not importing diamonds directly from Russia” is straightforward, but when diamonds have been processed in third countries, as the Minister has already suggested, it will not always be clear where they have originated from.

There is a very clear point in the regulations that says, under “Technical assistance”:

“A person who contravenes a prohibition … commits an offence, but it is a defence for a person charged with an offence of contravening paragraph (1) to show that the person did not know and had no reasonable cause to suspect that the technical assistance related to an import described in that paragraph”,


and the same is replicated for financial services and brokering services. How do His Majesty’s Government think they will be able to monitor this in practice? To what extent have the G7 countries, in proposing such sanctions, also talked to third countries that might be processing diamonds? For third countries processing Russian diamonds, which Russia is trying to export as a way of circumventing the existing sanctions, it is clearly essential that it should be incumbent on businesses processing diamonds to give clarity and reassurance about where the source diamonds have come from. I am not sufficiently expert in the diamond industry to know where else they might go; I assume that Russian diamonds are not going to South Africa, for example, to be processed, but that is obviously another country that will be exporting diamonds.

What conversations have His Majesty’s Government had with countries that might need support in order that such sanctions will be effective? What conversations have they had with the jewellers’ sector? Clearly, there will be new onuses on businesses which, while understandable, could prove prohibitive. None of this is to say that we disagree with the regulations, but I ask for some clarity about how they can be implemented in practice.

Finally, the Minister mentioned a couple of times that these sanctions are in conjunction with our G7 partners. Do the EU 27 have similar proposals? What opportunities are there to work with large countries, such as China and India, which are neither G7 nor EU countries but could circumvent sanctions, rather as is done with unrefined oil?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to pick up a number of points made in the other place, to which Anne-Marie Trevelyan responded, starting with the point about oil raised by my honourable friend Catherine West. I know that we have discussed before the reimportation and exportation of Russian-sourced oil. Anne-Marie Trevelyan described

“the challenges around the shadow and dark fleets of oil that we now see moving around the world”.

She said the Government were

“working with colleagues and allies across the G7 and more widely to continue to try to get ahead of the issue”

and to encourage our allies

“not to find themselves participating in shadow fleet activity”.—[Official Report, Commons, Delegated Legislation Committee, 14/3/24; col. 6.]

Can the Minister give us a little more detail about how we are working? There have been suggestions about where this oil is going and where it is being reimported. We have talked about Commonwealth countries—the noble Baroness mentioned this—and it is really important that we get some idea of the specific discussions. Oil is the biggest element of funding Russia’s war machine, so it is really important that we get ahead of this issue and better understand what is going on.

I also have a small point to make about diamonds. Catherine West challenged the fact that we are starting with 1 carat and that the threshold will not drop until September, and Anne-Marie Trevelyan said that this was to ensure that it did not impact detrimentally on business. We have to get a better idea about the effectiveness of that and the timeframes. Again, the method of circumvention seems to be to hide this through a third country, which can then take ownership of these things, oil or diamonds, export them and raise funds that way. Anne-Marie Trevelyan was more concerned about non-Russian producer nations. Of course, we understand that, but the diamond trade is not huge in terms of the number of countries involved in it, so it would be good to have a better understanding about the timeframes.

The issue I really want to focus on—as the noble Lord knows, I have raised this before—is that it is one thing having sanctions, but it is their enforcement and the monitoring of their effectiveness that will deliver for us. Anne-Marie Trevelyan spoke about the additional funding going through, particularly in terms of the sanctions directorate in the FCDO, which produces the sanctions. Of course, we then have the Treasury with its enforcement arm and now we have the Department for Business, with the Office of Trade Sanctions Implementation, to ensure that the policy sets out clear guidance on this.

The last time we discussed sanctions, I asked the Minister how quickly the Office of Trade Sanctions Implementation would be set up, what the timeframe would be and when we would be satisfied—because this stems from reports we have had of the number of breaches to sanctions. I would appreciate a much clearer update on that, because it is a vital issue.

On Russian diamonds, the SI also bans the provision of technical assistance, brokering and financial services in connection with the import of third country-processed Russian diamonds. Perhaps I could ask the Minister, on monitoring and enforcement, whether he is satisfied that officials will have the resources and technical knowledge needed to identify breaches in relation to the service side of this issue.

The Explanatory Memorandum also notes that the SI builds on the commitments made by the G7 leaders in May and December: the noble Lord referred to that. Another theme that he regularly repeats is that sanctions are effective only if we work in concert with others, including and especially our allies. The important thing for us is to better understand how these are being implemented by all our allies. Does the Minister have an update about the implementation of the measures by other G7 nations? Where do we rank in terms of speed of implementation? I do not wish to be critical, but it is good to have a better understanding. I am aware that the US and Canada always seem to be ahead of us in announcing sanctions; I am not so confident about their ability to monitor them or to enforce them. It would be good to have an idea of where the Minister thinks we are.

Another issue that I picked up from Sky News, but which has appeared on other channels, is something I raised in terms of how people are circumventing sanctions, in particular by moving oil through third countries. There was a report on Sky News that car exports to Azerbaijan over the past few years have gone through the roof: there has been a dramatic increase. I understand that the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders has said that there is no connection to Russia here and that the country is a flourishing market in its own right. It would be good to hear from the Minister whether there has been any sort of checking. Are the Government satisfied with those claims? It does seem rather odd that it coincides with the implementation of sanctions.

I did mention that, when I was last in Georgia, people raised the issue with me of the number of luxury cars that were being exported from Georgia to Russia. So, again, if these things are happening, we should be aware of them and we should be challenging them and working with allies to stop this circumvention.

President of the European Commission

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I think I can give that undertaking. The Prime Minister announced the package of support for Ukraine, at over £2.7 billion, which will ensure that it has the support it deserves from the United Kingdom. The Government are fully aware that we need to step up production, not just for Ukraine but to make sure that we deal with our depleted stocks. However, at the same time, there is a real task to be done across all the countries that support Ukraine to look at any weapons systems that are close to their expiration date. We will not be able to use them, but it could use them now.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, during the current Foreign Secretary’s sabbatical from politics, his immediate successor as Prime Minister, Mrs May, was negotiating an EU-UK security treaty. Does he think that now is a good time to reopen such discussions, precisely in light of the situation in Ukraine? That is one area where we could have common cause.

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I do not think we should rule out different ways of working with the EU, but the Ukraine situation shows how the current arrangements can be made to work well. I have always said that, after Brexit, Britain should aim to be the best friend, neighbour and partner of the EU, and I think Ukraine shows that is exactly what we are doing. We have found ways of working together through these various formats, including the Wiesbaden formats and others. I am not sure that it is necessary to form some structured way of working when we have managed to do it on an ad hoc, rapid and effective basis.

Foreign Affairs

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, when the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, started, he said he was not quite sure how he felt about opening the debate. I wondered whether he was really musing about the fact that normally he would have to spend a whole debate sitting and scribbling in response to everything that we had said. This afternoon, he has now passed this task on to the Foreign Secretary. The noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, can—for once—sit quietly and listen, probably to some of the tributes that will be paid to him, as one of our most indefatigable Ministers who truly has respect in your Lordships’ House.

From the High North to the South Atlantic, from North Korea to South Sudan, there are global challenges and foreign policy concerns for the United Kingdom, our partners and allies. Some speak of a new Cold War; I have never understood that. I do not see how this is a new Cold War. If anything, we are seeing a series of very hot wars. At the time the Cold War ended, the UK, like so many of our partners, took a peace dividend. We now need to consider whether that was at too high a price. Are we paying enough now for our security and defence, or are we overstretching ourselves in diplomacy, defence and development—the three Ds?

In your Lordships’ House, we have two Ministers who have spent—as the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, told us—weeks and months travelling around globally, representing this country very ably. Yet, is the country really spending enough on foreign security and defence policy when we face so many challenges? We have a series of challenges, threats and global issues that need to be considered.

In his opening remarks, the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, got round part of the world in 16 minutes. In her 13 minutes, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, got round some other parts. That in itself demonstrates that we are in a situation where we need to be looking south and east, north and west. I wonder whether we are able to do so effectively. Does the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office have the resources to achieve everything that this country and our European and NATO partners need us to do? Does the Ministry of Defence have the resources that we need? Does this country take our foreign policy responsibilities sufficiently seriously? This is not a criticism of this Government or of previous Governments. We need to consider it as a public policy discourse because, if we do not pay sufficient attention to the international, we will be caught out when the next crisis or conflict occurs.

During the last three years, three areas have been, in series, the source of much discussion and debate in British foreign and defence policy—Afghanistan, the Middle East and Ukraine. I will mention a fourth area because I know that the Foreign Secretary has just been down to the South Atlantic and the Falkland Islands. Before I look at the more recent hot conflicts, I wonder whether the Foreign Secretary can enlighten the House about the current feelings in the islands, particularly in light of the Argentine President resurrecting the idea that the Falklands are of significant interest to Argentina. What confidence can he give the islanders? Is he able to answer a question put to me when I was in the Falklands 18 months ago—if Argentina invaded today, would the United Kingdom be able to protect us? At one level, the short answer is that we have forces permanently deployed down there. But, if we were asked whether we could send a task force, the answer might be somewhat different.

I turn to more recent issues. We have a legacy of 20 years in Afghanistan. At the time of the United States’ withdrawal, there was an ignominious departure by the United Kingdom and our other European NATO partners. We left behind too many people who had put their lives on the line by standing alongside the United Kingdom—whether they were interpreters, British Council contractors or the Triples. The cases of all these people have been raised many times in your Lordships’ House. Too often, the answers have reflected interdepartmental differences—a sense that it is not an issue for the Foreign Office, or the MoD, or the Home Office. There is too much buck passing. In his response, can the Foreign Secretary give some reassurance to those people who are still in fear of their lives because they worked alongside the UK and NATO? Can he assure them that we will get them out of Afghanistan, that they should not be risking their lives in small boats, or going to Rwanda, and that we will do the right thing for those people we left behind in Afghanistan?

The Afghan case is too infrequently discussed because the bandwidth is not there. We have moved from Afghanistan to Ukraine—and rightly so. It is absolutely right that His Majesty’s Government and the whole of the United Kingdom has been supporting Ukraine, whether by welcoming Ukrainians into our homes, sending ammunition, training soldiers or through the diplomatic route that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have engaged in. But one of the lessons from Afghanistan is that, when the United States withdraws, it is difficult for the United Kingdom and our European partners to stand alone. If we see that on this side of the channel and of the Atlantic, the message was also not missed in Beijing, Moscow or Tehran.

The third of the areas that have already been discussed today is Israel, Gaza and the Red Sea, about which I will not go into detail because so many other noble Lords will do so. The Foreign Secretary has clearly already been trying to play a role in those areas, making some very important statements about the importance of a two-state solution. We are facing a world where so many of these issues have links with Russia or Iran; Hamas, the Houthis and Hezbollah are all supported by Iran. What conversations are His Majesty’s Government able to have to try to reduce the danger from Iran? That is one of the issues that we do not talk enough about that needs to be discussed.

The final area is China, about which I turn, briefly, to the High North. In recent years, our attention as a country and politicians has been to the south and east, but if we look to the High North, we see that climate change is affecting everyone. Greta Thunberg talked about the world being on fire—that includes the Arctic, which sounds impossible but is true. As the Arctic ices melt, we will see new sea routes offering potential trading opportunities that may be beneficial to the United Kingdom and our allies; but it is also seen by China as the opportunity for a polar silk road. As China signs deals with Russia—and the Arctic, instead of being an area of high co-operation and low tension, looks, potentially, to become one that is securitised by Russia and China—what assessment are His Majesty’s Government making of the High North? Do they have the bandwidth to think not just about the present issues in the Middle East and Ukraine but about potential conflicts and areas of difficulty in the High North?

How far are the Government also looking west? At the moment, we still have a President of the United States who is committed to NATO. If Donald Trump were re-elected in November, could we rely on the United States? If not, what is the United Kingdom doing with our European NATO partners and the European Union? What discussions are His Majesty’s Government having, bilaterally and multilaterally, with France, Germany and the European Union to strengthen our security ties? Will we go through the open door to have a UK-EU security relationship? We have moved beyond the intricacies of Brexit that soured politics for so long and there is an opportunity to think about a security relationship—but will His Majesty’s Government take it? Do they have a strategy for co-operation, or are we destined simply to see ad hocery? At times, AUKUS and the relationship with Japan and Italy on fighter jets look—dare I say—opportunistic.

Can His Majesty’s Government tell us that they have a strategy for the UK’s place in the world in which it plays its right and proper part? Will it demonstrate the leadership that we all need? That is not just about leadership in this place and the other place but about a national conversation that reminds everyone that we must stand up for democracy, human rights and the rule of law. If we in this country—not just politicians, journalists and academics but every citizen—are complacent and do not stand up for those things, we will be vulnerable. Can the Government offer the leadership that we all need?

Ukraine

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree, which is why my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary announced on Saturday that the UK will spend a further £245 million throughout the next year to procure and invigorate supply chains to produce urgently needed artillery ammunition for Ukraine.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I associate these Benches with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about supporting the Government’s position on Ukraine. However, we and Ukraine appear to be in this for the long haul, and we will need to spend a lot of money on defence and diplomacy to get this right and ensure that not only Ukraine but the Baltic states are secure. Given that, what are the Government doing to ensure that the citizens of the United Kingdom are wholly behind this as well? We do not want people to start thinking that support somehow is not here in this country. I regret to say that we want the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, to be proved wrong.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness mentioned defence and diplomacy. I referred to the additional funding for munitions. I underline the fact that every diplomatic engagement that we are undertaking gives that reassurance directly to the Ukrainians. I was in India last week, and I made sure that I met the Deputy Foreign Minister of Ukraine, who was there. My noble friend the Foreign Secretary has been extensively engaged. He attended the UN Security Council meeting in New York marking the second anniversary of Russia’s illegal invasion, and addressed it. Only yesterday I returned from Geneva, where a key part of my address to the UN Human Rights Council was on Ukraine, and I met its ambassador, together with all our colleagues from the UK mission. It is very clear that this Parliament, the Diplomatic Service departments, government and indeed our people stand with Ukraine, and we are proud of the 140,000-odd Ukrainians who have now made Britain their temporary home—I use “temporary” definitively, because they themselves yearn for a return back home to Ukraine.

Israel and Palestine

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the second question from my noble friend, I am always delighted to meet her and gain from her insights. We are aware of the different programmes. Currently, we are working with key partners on the five points that my noble friend the Foreign Secretary has outlined, but I will be pleased to meet her to see how, as these plans develop, component parts of what we already have can also be very much part and parcel of those discussions.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister gave a very positive response to the noble Lord, Lord Hain, seeming to think that this is a turning point in Israeli-Palestinian relations. However, can he explain to the House how he thinks we are going to get to the point of a two-state solution, given the situation as outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Hain?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the first thing I would say to the noble Baroness is that you have to be positive; if you are not positive in diplomacy, you might as well pack up your bags and stay at home. That is certainly not something that either I or the Foreign Secretary are doing. We are engaging because this is about the moment, from this tragedy. There are challenges on both the Israeli and the Palestinian sides, and I have alluded to them already. What is very clear is that this is a moment in time—there is a window and we can shift the dial, and that is where our focus should be.

Israel and Gaza

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement; when I left the other place to come to the Chamber, the debate was continuing.

It is sad, but since the last Statement, there has been another month of intolerable conditions, civilian deaths, famine and disease in Gaza, and of course another month of hostages’ families in Israel living in complete anguish. The ICJ said that Israel must take measures to ensure humanitarian access; last week, the World Food Programme suspended its operations in northern Gaza; and MSF said:

“We no longer speak of a humanitarian scale-up; we speak of how to survive even without the bare minimum”,


and that bare minimum is having a disastrous effect, particularly, as the noble Lord said, on women and girls, and especially on children. Children are now suffering hugely from malnutrition, which has not only an immediate impact on their health but even much longer-term impacts, which will last throughout the rest of their lives.

Today, in the other place, in his response to Minister Mitchell’s Statement, David Lammy mentioned the report from the Association of International Development Agencies, which said that visas for 100 humanitarian workers in Gaza and the West Bank have expired or are about to expire, with no humanitarian visa renewals since the outbreak of the war, leaving many workers facing deportation at a time when Palestinian people need them most. Last week I met a worker from Action Against Hunger who had to leave Gaza. No NGO wants to break visa conditions. They will comply with regulations. They do not want to put their workers at risk. It leaves them particularly vulnerable.

Andrew Mitchell acknowledged the problem in his response today, but it is not clear what specific representations have been made to the Israeli authorities for an automatic extension of these visas on humanitarian grounds. They had been extended before, so why not now? I hope the Minister can reassure us that the Government will make the strongest possible representations to ensure that these visas are extended or renewed.

Minister Mitchell also mentioned, as the Statement did, the increase in aid, particularly this month—the air drops and more trucks going through—but what assessment have we made of that increase and what further increases are needed to meet the horrific conditions that are currently applying in Gaza? Can we assist in further air drops? Are there possible sea routes through? Can we use some of the Jordanian crossings as well as aerial routes?

I have said before that Israel must comply with all the measures set out by the ICJ—and must do so now. In the other place, Kit Malthouse asked what steps the Government are taking to enforce the ICJ’s interim ruling—not condemning or discussing but enforcing. He asked specifically about Rafah. Do His Majesty’s Government believe that a full-scale Rafah offensive would be consistent with the ICJ ruling? I do not believe that anyone in this House thinks that it would be, so I hope the Minister can respond to it. Minister Mitchell said that

“the rulings of the Court are binding and must therefore be respected”.

We need some clarity on the sorts of messages that we are giving to the Israeli Government with regard to a possible assault on Rafah.

Obviously, we are getting to a very delicate position, particularly with some of the talks that are going on the moment. David Lammy said in the other place that

“it is through diplomacy, not debate in Westminster, that we will ultimately secure an end to this war”.

The talks in Paris over the weekend appear to be making some progress. Minister Mitchell said that he was “neither optimistic nor pessimistic” but that the Government were completely committed to ensuring that the talks are successful. I hope the Minister can tell us exactly what we are doing and particularly what the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, is doing, to ensure that we are working with our allies to do our utmost to ensure that those talks are successful.

I think that most people in this House agree that both sides should stop fighting now and all hostages should be released. We also agree, when talking about a two-state solution, that we need—as the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, said earlier this month—to work with our international partners to give hope to that process and to move towards recognising a Palestinian state—not wait for the end of the process but give hope so that talks and negotiations can succeed. Does the Minister agree—because David Lammy made this call—that there is an opportunity for the Government and the Opposition to work together to support that diplomatic process to deliver a two-state solution?

I suspect that the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, agree with many of the things that I have said. I hope that in the debate next Tuesday we can focus on some of these issues. I believe that this is a time when, for once, we should put politics aside, and I hope that the Government and the Official Opposition, who genuinely share the same aspirations and positions, can work together, so that we can—as David Lammy called for—put out a joint statement calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. I hope the Minister agrees with that.

In terms of the talks that are currently ongoing, I hope that we will be able to have some positive news when we debate this issue next Tuesday, but I know the Minister is not in a position to give definite answers. I hope that he will remain committed, and I know that he has been working tirelessly on this issue, to ensuring that we can achieve peace and security in the Middle East.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I understand that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, does not wish this to become partisan, but I remind the House that in these Statements there are not just His Majesty’s Government and His Majesty’s loyal Opposition; the Liberal Democrats also have an opportunity to raise a few questions. In the absence of my noble friend Lord Purvis of Tweed, I will raise some questions on aid and will press a little more on the question of a two-state solution and the international context.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, has talked a lot about aid, but I wonder whether the Minister could say a little more about what tripling aid means. Tripling sounds great, but what does that mean in practice? What does

“Four tonnes of vital supplies”


actually mean? What percentage of people who have been displaced in Gaza are actually being fed through the aid that is coming through? What percentage of people in Gaza are without food and clean water at the moment? Getting a sense of the real numbers is important.

Clearly, we support the Government in trying to get as much aid in as possible, but, like the Official Opposition, we are calling for a ceasefire. Can the Minister say a little more about why His Majesty’s Government seem so reluctant to say that there should be a bilateral ceasefire, which would appear to be the most effective way of ensuring that aid can get through and providing an opportunity to negotiate for the return of all the hostages?

In particular, I note that Minister Mitchell in the other place talked about a two-state solution and said that His Majesty’s Government’s position is that

“we will recognise a Palestinian state at a time that is most conducive to the peace process”.

Can the Minister tell us how the Government will know when it is most conducive to the peace process? Is there some thinking in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office about what that would actually mean? Can the Minister tell us a little more about His Majesty’s Government’s sense of a pathway towards a two-state solution, and what he, and particularly the Foreign Secretary, will be saying to Israel and to the Palestinian Authority about ways towards that?

Finally, in all the penumbra of the situation in Israel and Gaza there is the spectre of Iran in Yemen, Iraq and Syria and on the border with Lebanon. Have His Majesty’s Government given any further thought to proscribing the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and what assessment have they made of the wider security situation, particularly on Israel’s northern border with Lebanon?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to both the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, for their questions.

I first put on the record my thanks to the noble Lord; he mentioned talking as one. Your Lordships’ House, the other place and indeed this Parliament have shown that when it matters on key issues, we do come together, as we have done on Ukraine. There is very little between the approach of both His Majesty’s Official Opposition and the Government.

I will continue to brief directly. The noble Lord will be aware that a number of His Majesty’s Opposition Front Bench have come to see me; I have updated them regularly. I have also had an opportunity to update the leader of the Liberal Democrats directly at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and to help to facilitate direct engagement as well. It is important that both the Israelis and the Palestinians know that we are fully engaged in our approach.

I will first say that both I and my noble friend Lord Cameron are fully immersed in this. Indeed, just prior to arriving in your Lordships’ House, I was with him discussing this very issue. We are very much engaged on the current live discussions. There is a trailing in the media. Of course we want an immediate stop in the fighting. It goes without saying. We can play on— I have said this from the start—whether it is a pause, ceasefire or cessation, but we need to make sure that the fighting stops and that the conditions are there to allow for it to stop on a permanent basis. We do not want any loss of life. If there is a legacy that we can provide to those 1,200 Israelis who lost their lives and to the now thousands who have lost their lives in Gaza, it is ensuring that on this occasion, the end means the end, and that we build that sustainable peace and deliver the two-state solution that everyone wants.

Picking up on the specifics, I should say that some progress is being made on the negotiations. I talked to the lead negotiator and the Deputy Foreign Minister of Qatar on Saturday; he updated me on some of the specifics, including the challenges that remain. My noble friend the Foreign Secretary has been directly engaging with the Israeli Government. When he met Prime Minister Netanyahu, of course the conversation was wide-ranging, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins. We also land the quite specific points about the importance of the UN operations and all the different agencies on the ground there, notwithstanding some of the issues. We have rightly had concerns raised about UNRWA, but we have been working through that to ensure that other agencies get the support they need and, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, the visas to operate. We use every opportunity to make that very clear. To be frank, the Israeli Government themselves also recognise the importance of that humanitarian support. International humanitarian law is important, and Israel’s obligations under that as a state are very clear.

In terms of success—the optimism or the pessimism— I am an eternal optimist. I always say that, in the most challenging situations, you look for that silver lining, to see how we can actually focus and amplify that hope so that we can get a result. That is where both I and the Foreign Secretary have been fully focused.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned the hostage families. A week or so ago, together with the Prime Minister, I met the hostage families at No. 10. They also had other meetings while here in London, which the UK Government facilitated. That again shows the point of the noble Lord, Lord Collins: our diplomacy is important. We must ensure that we leave no stone unturned and no door unopened—both for the families, to give them the support they need, and to ensure that their loved ones are returned. Meeting with the hostage families is always heartrending. I have met several of them several times over, and we will continue to do so.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the areas of aid and humanitarian support. I will run through some of the specifics. We are asking Israel to ensure the safety of aid convoys; to ensure that the UN has people, vehicles and equipment, and fuel within Gaza; to open the crossings, Kerem Shalom in particular, seven days a week; to remove restrictions to ensure greater consistency on goods; to allow unencumbered access to aid coming from Jordan; to open the Ashdod port as a route for aid to reach Gaza; to open the Erez crossing to allow direct access to the north of Gaza; and to restore water, fuel and electricity connections.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked about specifics. To take one example, the £4.25 million of aid to which I alluded will ensure that the UNFPA—the United Nations sexual and reproductive health agency—can support 100,000 vulnerable girls and women in Gaza. I hope this gives a sense of the specifics on which we are focused.

The Government are pursuing a five-point plan with key partners to ensure the release of the hostages and the scaling up of aid, to which the noble Baroness referred. We are sometimes seeing a double-digit number of trucks going through on a daily basis. This is not enough. The target has always been 500 to 600 trucks. This remains part and parcel of the current agreement which we hope will get over the line and ensure that the bare minimum of 500 to 600 trucks going into Gaza is fully realised.

The issue of working with key partners remains live. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that my noble friend the Foreign Secretary was fully engaged at Munich. There will be a follow-up meeting on which I will update noble Lords appropriately. I have also again been in the Gulf, where I met with representatives of countries such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. We are also looking at a third element—reconstruction. We are asking every country, whether a partner in the region or our traditional partners, to say what they can do in this respect. We are seeing Qatar play an important role in hostage negotiations. There are those who can step forward and provide support for reconstruction. Countries such as Egypt are playing a vital role in influencing the Palestinian Authority: we have seen developments here. This is a collective effort. We need to ensure that we as a House and we as a Parliament speak as one and that our partners are working to the same plan.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, alluded to the debate next week when I am sure we shall return to specifics. We want this situation to stop immediately. Whatever term we use, it has to be sustainable, but it can be sustainable only if both sides agree to it. There are those who have influence on both sides. We have strong relationships both with the Palestinians and, importantly, with Israel, which allow us to make these quite specific points. I have met civil society leaders in Israel. I last visited Israel in November and hope to do so again very shortly. No one wants this conflict to continue. Let us not forget that there are people from both the north and south of Israel living in the centre of the country because of the existing situation.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, also asked about the north of Israel and Lebanon. My noble friend the Foreign Secretary and I visited Lebanon together. We made a specific offer to the Lebanese army to ensure that we see a scaling down of the current rise in attacks from Hezbollah and of the conflict with Israel. We want to ensure that the Lebanese army moves in, and that the Hezbollah grouping moves north of the Litani river. Quite specific conversations are happening in this respect. As ever, I will update both the Front Benches and specific noble Lords on this issue, beyond the official Statements, as we regularly do.

AUKUS Security Partnership

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

On the last point, I think I am right in saying that one of my ministerial colleagues will attend the Perth conference because it is very important. As my noble friend will know, AUKUS has two pillars. Pillar 1 is about the nuclear-powered submarines of Britain, Australia and America, and I do not think there will be additional partners in that. However, pillar 2 looks at advanced military technology for the future, and there we are open to the idea of other countries—possibly Canada, as people have mentioned, or Japan—which might want to join it because it is about defence equipment for the future. The point he makes about the Quad is very important. We would say that this is complementary to that activity.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, when AUKUS was first announced, the suggestion, at least from the MoD, seemed to be that somehow the United Kingdom had just slipped into an agreement with Australia over the nuclear submarines but clearly, as the Secretary of State has pointed out, there is also the wider aspect of AUKUS. Do His Majesty’s Government have a strategic approach to this? Are we simply waiting to see whether other countries such as Canada wish to join or are we actually planning what we want to do? Similarly, we have a trilateral agreement with Japan and Italy over fighter jets. Are we just being ad hoc or is there a real strategy here for our security?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

This is a deeply strategic approach. First, it fits into a tilt to the Indo-Pacific. Noble Lords can see we have signed the Hiroshima accord with Japan; we have a new status at ASEAN; we have very strong partnerships with India; and now we have AUKUS, which is a defence stature that puts us in with Australia and America in a very strategic way. In terms of the partners for pillar 2, we would welcome others to come but on each occasion we will have to ask, “What will they bring, is it the right thing, is it the right country and is it the right fit?” The strategic move of AUKUS is incredibly powerful.

Ukraine Conflict

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we always listen carefully to what President Macron says—France is an important ally in every sense, and we are working closely with France and our European partners. We are aware of the discussions going on across the ocean in the United States but, equally, we need the US to be part of this effort, and the reconstruction effort. The debate we had only the other week illustrated this large component. Not only are we making that case to our European partners but we continue to advocate the case for Ukraine in the United States.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the noble and gallant Lord stole part of my question—I was going to ask about relations with our neighbours and what discussions His Majesty’s Government were having. I will rephrase it and ask the Minister what assessment, beyond France and our closest allies, His Majesty’s Government have made about the solidarity in Europe to support Ukraine. There was a wobble during 2023. Do the Government think that Poland, for example, is now firmly back on the right side and giving as much support as possible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure the noble Baroness has noticed that there is a change in the Polish leadership. We have also seen, when it comes to issues of the defence of Europe, the importance of our advocacy within NATO. It is very clear in the discussions we are having, particularly through that organisation, that Europe stands together, and stands with Ukraine.