National Maternity and Neonatal Investigation

Baroness Thornton Excerpts

Monday 6th July 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I am fully aware of—I will put it tactfully—the difference of opinion in this regard. This morning, I was speaking with one of our main advisers, who did not feel it was necessarily an answer to go down the road of midwives being nurses—I know the noble Baroness did not say that—and I bow to that experience, but for me it raises the complexity.

It is important to emphasise a point about which I have been concerned for some time: about a third of student midwives have no role to go to. The noble Baroness is right, but some of it is about basic experience, and nobody can gain experience without putting the years in—that is a fact. That is why getting the new funding, up to £10,000 per post, means we will keep students in the profession and give them the chance to develop the very important expertise to which the noble Baroness refers. Further, having multidisciplinary teams and the right people means that you can manage whatever complexity. There is no way that any one person can deal with all complex cases. Every case has a high degree of individuality, as I know the noble Baroness is aware.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, “welcome” is not quite the right term to use about these reports, but they are indeed absolutely essential. I need to declare that I am the maternity lead, as a non-executive member, at the Whittington Hospital, and I will be at the conference as a member of one of the reference groups tomorrow.

Several years ago, when Donna Ockenden produced her first reports, we set up what we called the Ockenden cafes in the Whittington, to which we invited all the multidisciplinary teams, plus mums and patients and people who had been involved over a period of time; it was an enormously valuable and uplifting experience for all of us involved in the maternity care of the women in our area.

However, I want to ask my noble friend about MIS, the Maternity Incentive Scheme, which is now in its eighth year and, as she will know, is designed to get maternity units to improve year by year and through that win some investment in their hospitals. Has that been factored into what might happen next?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend and all her colleagues for the work they do. We have many examples across the country of first-rate care and great initiatives like the one my noble friend spoke of, which really takes on board one of the problems the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, found: that the voices of women and their families, and of staff, were just not heard or acted on. That is the one thing that comes through.

To the question, would the abbreviation be MIS in this case?

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

Yes, MIS.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

We have two “MISs” that we often talk about: MHIS and MIS. I will ensure that MIS is considered, but it is probably worth saying that we are already developing a tool for assessing the quality and experiences of care being provided for women using maternity services, through the patient reported experience measure. To the point made earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, that is one of the ways we will ensure that women and their families can actually see, feel and know the difference.