Railways: Trans-Pennine Freight
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I am sure that the noble Lord knows better than me that one should not believe everything one reads in the newspapers. However, as he will also know, the Oakervee review is taking a detailed look at all elements of HS2 and its phasing and will report soon.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister take this opportunity to comment on HS3 and its implications? I am sure that she and I are both subscribed to the northern powerhouse and its rail element: that we need to increase capacity on rail for both passengers and freight. As the noble Lord pointed out, the spur to Leeds and Sheffield is crucial in this regard. Will she confirm that both HS2 and HS3 will proceed as planned?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I thank my noble friend for raising further questions around HS2. She referred to HS3, which is known to most noble Lords as Northern Powerhouse Rail. It is an incredibly important, complicated and extensive project. It works closely with the trans-Pennine route upgrade, and indeed with HS2. The Government have already committed £60 million of funding to Transport for the North to develop the proposals and a further £300 million to ensure that HS2 can accommodate Northern Powerhouse Rail. As she made clear, Northern Powerhouse Rail could bring huge benefits.
Buses: Rural Services
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering(4 years, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
The noble Lord is right that the number of trips on buses is declining, although they represent 55% of all journeys on public transport. But it is also the case that the total number of trips taken by individuals is declining, and therefore the share of trips on buses has remained around about the same. To go back to the noble Lord’s point about funding, the Government are providing ring-fenced funding where it is needed. For example, we have provided £43 million of ring-fenced funding, which is paid to operators to support less viable services within their communities. We have also provided £65 million of rural services delivery grant, because we recognise that providing services in rural areas is more difficult.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, when the concessionary fares were rolled out under a Labour Government, the uptake in rural areas was greater but the funding to cover the costs was not there? Will my noble friend revisit schemes such as the post bus services that operated successfully between villages and market towns in areas like North Yorkshire, to see whether they can be rolled out again in full?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
It is the case that local authorities have a statutory duty to provide some concessionary travel, but they also provide discretionary concessionary travel, which is important too. I am not aware of the scheme that my noble friend noted, but I will be happy if she can send me some details and we will certainly look at this. I reiterate that we are being innovative about making the best use of our assets to make sure that people in rural communities have transport.
Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My Lords, these grouped instruments will ensure that all the applicable parts of the common fisheries policy have effect in UK law, should the UK leave the EU without a deal. The technical amendments that they make will ensure that retained EU law provides effective and enforceable UK law, as well as continuity to businesses, while protecting the environment. No policy changes are made to the effect of the retained EU law and no change is expected in the way that the fishing industry conducts its activities as a result of the instruments.
These three instruments are closely related. Two of them amend some of the same regulations—one making simple fixes and the other transferring powers to exercise functions contained in those regulations. The third instrument amends late-emerging regulations that came into force in late December 2018 and January 2019. Together, they amend retained EU law in order to provide legal continuity for UK fisheries management post EU exit.
The amendments extend and apply to the United Kingdom. Fisheries management in the UK is largely devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. These instruments have been developed and drafted in close co-operation with the devolved Administrations, who have given their consent, ensuring a common approach which respects the existing devolution settlements and maintains the existing system of fisheries management. For the future, the UK Government and the devolved Administrations are working together to develop a new UK framework made up of both legislative and non-legislative elements in order to maintain a common approach in a number of areas.
Where provisions place obligations or confer functions or powers on member states, the references to member states are, generally speaking, changed to “a fisheries administration” to maintain the existing system of fisheries management. In addition, EU-specific terms, such as “Union vessels” or “Union waters”, have been replaced with an equivalent term—for example, “United Kingdom vessels” and “United Kingdom waters”—to apply them to the UK only.
I shall deal briefly with each SI in turn. The first one, the Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, amends the majority of retained EU legislation. I refer noble Lords to paragraph 2.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum, which sets out the regulations that are amended by this instrument. These regulations include the following: the basic regulation; the control regulations; regulations on illegal, unregulated and unreported fishing; multiannual plans and effort regimes; the data collection frameworks, and many more. Other provisions—for example, those defining characteristics for vessels, the fishing fleet register and measures for the conservation of resources and ecosystems—will also be amended.
The instrument was presented to the sifting committee on 27 November 2018 and it recommended that it be subject to the affirmative procedure. Since then, additional detail has been added to the Explanatory Memorandum, including an annexe that more fully describes the nature of the amendments made by the instrument. It has been considered by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which reported the instrument due to the public and political importance of fisheries. The Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments did not report it.
The second SI, the Common Fisheries Policy and Aquaculture (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, amends regulations concerned with regional fisheries management organisations—RFMOs. Having these in place when we leave the EU will mean that we are fully compliant with international agreements, allowing us to join key conventions in our own right. The SI also amends the technical conservation measures that fishing vessels must adhere to. These regulations are essential for the management of the fisheries activities of UK vessels, wherever they are, and non-UK vessels in UK waters.
Furthermore, amendments are made to the North Sea multiannual plan, which establishes long-term plans for the recovery, preservation and sustainable management of mixed fisheries in the North Sea. The instrument also transfers powers previously conferred upon EU entities to make legislation or exercise legislative decisions. These will now be enacted by UK Administrations, and parliamentarians will be able to scrutinise them in a way not possible when the powers were exercised by the EU. There are also minor consequential changes to domestic legislation. The instrument has been considered by the SLSC and the JCSI, neither of which reported it.
Thirdly and finally, the Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019 amend three regulations that set out exemptions from the landing obligation for certain fisheries in north-western waters and the North Sea. The minor, technical amendments to these provisions enable the UK to facilitate the full implementation of the scheme from January 2019. This will ensure that the UK continues to abide by the same conservation measures.
The SI also amends two regulations that set fishing opportunities. One sets total allowable catch—TAC—and quota for fish stocks for 2019, and the second sets total allowable catch and quota for certain deep-sea stocks for 2019 and 2020. In these two regulations, the prohibitions on the fishing of certain species in certain areas will be amended so that they continue to apply. However, provisions that put into law the TAC and quota set by the EU will be revoked because it will not be appropriate for these to apply to the UK when we become an independent coastal state. Again, the instrument has been considered by the SLSC and the JCSI, neither of which reported it.
Because these instruments make only necessary technical amendments to retained EU law that, prior to exit day, already applies in the form of directly applicable EU law, the impact is expected to be minimal and therefore a full impact assessment was not carried out. While there was no formal duty to consult, a 10-week consultation was conducted through the fisheries White Paper, which described future fisheries policy as well as the general legislative approach taken by these SIs.
Alongside that, meetings have taken place with key stakeholders from the fisheries sector, including the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations and the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation; the wider industry, including producer organisations; and environmental non-government bodies such as the World Wildlife Fund. Stakeholders, including the Association of Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities, were supportive of the approach. We have also been happy to receive questions and comments from environmental non-governmental organisations, including ClientEarth and the Green Alliance, which we have addressed in the Explanatory Memorandum and made publicly available.
These instruments make retained EU law effective in UK law. The legislation is essential to ensure that we retain an effective system of fisheries management from day one of EU exit, so that our fishing continues to be well regulated and sustainable. This legislation is complemented by the Fisheries Bill, which creates the powers to allow us, over time, to build UK policy for a sustainable and profitable fishing industry. A previous instrument, the Fisheries (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, amended domestic fisheries legislation to make it effective in UK law after EU exit; some of those amendments arose as a consequence of changes made by these instruments. That instrument was taken through this House by my noble friend Lord Gardiner on 6 February 2019. I beg to move.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for moving these rather meaty statutory instruments. I would like to place on record my admiration for the then fisheries Minister in the other place, my honourable friend Richard Benyon, for the fisheries policy that he negotiated. It has been revolutionary and has changed the way that fisheries policy is decided and conservation measures are taken. It set the scene by allowing coastal states to agree what the conservation measures would be.
Under the new provisions that we are adopting this evening, with retained EU law and making sure, as she said, that there is a smooth transition to our becoming a third country, if one cares about conservation of fisheries going forward, how will we agree conservation measures with the nearest coastal state? The way that the map is drawn means that we virtually share waters with our nearest neighbour, France. The Scottish fisheries situation is slightly different in that Scotland does not have a near neighbour in the sense of backing up to a coastal state.
Having said that, I think that Scottish fishermen will be deeply interested in one of the few—three, in fact—rollover agreements that has been agreed: that with the Faroe Islands, where we take £200 million mostly in fish products each year. Obviously, that will compete directly with the Scottish fisheries. I understand that the agreements with Norway and Iceland are not yet available to view, but I would imagine that most of the imported products from Norway and Iceland will also be in fisheries. I have two questions on that. First, what discussions have there been in the Joint Ministerial Council on the rollover agreements to date, the future rollover agreements and the implications, particularly for Scottish fishermen? Secondly, how will we agree going forward to conserve those fish? I have always maintained that fish do not wear a union jack; they swim between the various waters and it is very difficult to control them. We need a conservation policy that will be shared on an ongoing basis with our near neighbours, the French and others, with whom we currently share a common fisheries policy. Going forward, I am sure that it will be the Government’s intention to do this.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
My noble friend mentioned Cefas. I visited the International Council for Exploration of the Seas in Copenhagen about two years ago. It has a number of leading British scientists and other nationalities who will be concerned about their status, but it is an international organisation. Have the Government formed a view as to whether we will still be a party to ICES post Brexit?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I believe that we will be and I shall write if that is not the case—it is indeed the case.
Enforcement is an incredibly important issue. Defra is working very closely with the Marine Management Organisation, the Association of Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities, the Royal Navy, Border Force and other organisations to make sure that appropriate arrangements are in place for day one. The UK will maintain its scheme of monitoring, control and surveillance through vessel monitoring systems, electronic logbooks and other reporting requirements. Over time, as we develop our fisheries regime, we will use the new powers in the Bill to create the offence of vicarious liability against, for example, owners and charterers of fishing vessels.
The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, was very clear that we should make sure that all those operating on the front line of control and enforcement are briefed on what they should do on day one: this is critical, because we have seen what has happened when things have gone wrong. People can be in the wrong place at the wrong time and doing the wrong things; tempers can get very frayed indeed and it can escalate extremely quickly. So, following approval from Her Majesty’s Treasury and Ministers, we are implementing our full control and enforcement preferred approach and putting in place a significant uplift in our control and enforcement capability for day one. In addition, the Joint Maritime Operations Coordination Centre—JMOCC—has been established to enhance joint working between law enforcement agencies and the Royal Navy to improve patrol capabilities and increase information sharing across government.
I thank the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, for drawing our attention to the issue of the Irish border. Many people think that that is a land border, but it is a sea border too, and I know of concerns about the suspension of the agreement between the UK and the Republic of Ireland due to a verdict of the Supreme Court of Ireland several years ago. This agreement allows for fishing in the inshore 0-6 nautical miles zone of Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland waters. The Government are pleased that the Irish Government have committed to resolve the issue and to restore the agreement on the Irish side. We will certainly continue to discuss this with the Irish Government. Furthermore, we are working very closely with the Irish Government to patrol the seas in that area. It is absolutely critical that in all these circumstances, we work very closely with our neighbours to make sure that there are no misunderstandings, while recognising that, for example, control of seas around Northern Ireland is the responsibility of DAERA in Northern Ireland.
The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, mentioned the replacement of penalties. I should point out that fisheries administrations already have the power to adopt appropriate measures for ensuring control, inspection and enforcement activities under domestic legislation, so it is not necessary to bring the powers across. Where we already have the powers, obviously, we have not brought them across. The current and proposed future UK system of control and enforcement delivers effective penalties. We have no intention of weakening what we already have in place. Section 24 in Part III of the Fisheries Act 1981, for example, sets out penalties for offences, and Chapter 3 of the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 sets out the civil sanctions to be imposed by the appropriate licensing authority.
The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked about the cost of joining RFMOs. I am afraid I cannot remember what each of the initials stands for, so the noble Lord will have to forgive me, but for the IOTC—I am guessing that the T might stand for tuna; I cannot remember.
International Waste Shipments (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My Lords, the primary aim of this instrument is to amend EU and domestic legislation on waste shipments to enable their continued operability. The technical changes contained in this instrument will eliminate the risk that UK regulators would be unable to prosecute for, or prevent, illegal shipments of waste. They also provide legal clarity, certainty and reassurance for UK businesses involved in waste shipments. The legislation is this area is reserved, but this instrument has been the subject of extensive consultation with the devolved Administrations, who are content.
This instrument makes many adjustments, and I will highlight some of them. Noble Lords will not be surprised to learn that they are fairly technical in nature.
Part 2 corrects outdated references to the “Department of the Environment” in Northern Ireland to its new name, the “Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs”.
Regulations 14 and 15 omit references to “Community Regulation”. Regulations 16, 17, 42 and 43 omit provisions in the domestic legislation relating to EU bodies, historic transitional provisions and previous revocations, which are all now redundant.
Regulations 18 to 25 make provision for the UK Plan for Shipments of Waste, dated May 2012, to continue to have effect and to be changed in the future.
Regulations 26 to 41 make technical changes to the offence provisions in the domestic regulations. These changes preserve the scope of existing offences and ensure that no new offences are created.
Part 4 removes references to the relevant retained EU law in Annexe XX to the European Economic Area agreement. The references are no longer needed because the retained EU legislation on waste shipments has been amended so that it sets out all of the rules which govern shipments to or from EFTA countries.
Regulations 46, 47, 50, 63 and 105 to 108 amend the scope of retained EU law to make it clear that it applies to waste shipments to, from or through the UK; they also correct definitions and out-of-date references to EU legislation.
Regulation 48 amends definitions and make technical changes to ensure that references to competent authorities and references to the 2008 waste framework directive, which appear throughout the retained EU legislation, will continue to be effective.
Regulations 52 and 53 make technical changes that preserve the existing powers of the regulators to object to notifiable waste shipments for disposal or recovery. The draft instrument substitutes references to principles in the EU’s waste framework directive with Basel convention obligations to have adequate disposal facilities and to minimise the movements of hazardous wastes and to ensure that shipments of wastes are only allowed if the state of export does not have the facilities to dispose of the wastes in question in an environmentally sound manner. The changes also ensure that regulators can continue to object to proposed shipments where the destination operates to lower environmental standards than those in the UK.
Regulation 69 omits Article 33 of the EU regulation, as this requires member states to set up systems for internal waste movements consistent with the system used between member states. Given that the UK has a system for internal waste movements, these provisions are considered redundant.
Regulation 91 makes a number of amendments to enforcement provisions. The provisions of Article 50 have already been implemented in the UK and so some of these provisions are redundant and can be omitted. The changes made preserve the requirement for a national inspection plan.
In addition, Regulation 91, and Regulations 92, 94 and 96 make changes that preserve obligations to report to the secretariat of the Basel convention, publish information and omits obligations to designate competent authorities and provide information to the European Commission.
Regulation 95 makes technical changes that maintain a power for the Secretary of State to designate places where waste entering or leaving the United Kingdom will be controlled.
Although there was no statutory requirement to consult on this instrument, Defra officials have engaged with industry and NGO representatives. The Explanatory Memorandum refers to,
“a large face-to-face event”.
In fact, there have been two large events and a number of one-on-one meetings with industry representatives to explain this instrument’s approach. No substantive comments or issues were raised, and questions received related to clarification on how the existing processes will function after the UK leaves the EU.
The Committee will be aware that the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee raised concerns about the UK’s ability to continue exporting hazardous and other notifiable waste to the EU in a no-deal scenario. On the basis of those concerns, the committee recommended that this instrument should be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. It highlighted a transitional issue with the validity under EU law of approvals to ship notified wastes where those approvals extend beyond the date of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. The Committee will be pleased to hear that this issue has now been largely resolved.
Should the UK leave the EU without a deal, the UK regulators have obtained agreement from their EU counterparts that 98% of the approvals to ship notifiable waste to the EU can continue in their current form. No new applications will be required to allow the export of these wastes, and there will be no additional administrative costs associated with the approvals process. Spain is the only member state still to provide a response to 11 approvals. Defra officials have met with officials from the Spanish ministry of environment. Given that these shipments have previously been approved, there is agreement on both sides that it is important to avoid unnecessary duplication.
These adjustments represent no changes of policy. While there was no statutory duty to conduct an impact assessment, in developing these instruments we have sought to ensure the minimum disruption to businesses involved in the shipment of waste through retaining existing law. I beg to move.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for setting out the background to this instrument, which I welcome. I would like to ask a couple of questions.
The Minister referred to a national plan being in place. Has anyone voiced concerns about this plan? Are they entirely happy with it? At what date will that national plan kick in?
I think that my noble friend has addressed the concerns raised by Sub-Committee B of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, but there was a scenario referred to whereby 556 UK approvals to export notified waste to the EU, with an associated tonnage of just under 25 million tonnes, might be caused to fall into an abyss. Can my noble friend put my mind at rest that the situations in paragraphs 3.6 and 3.7 on page 3 of the Explanatory Memorandum have been resolved?
Fertilisers and Ammonium Nitrate Material (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in what has thankfully been a short debate; I believe that this is a fairly simple piece of secondary legislation which we should be able to dispatch fairly quickly. However, I appreciate the comments made by many noble Lords, and certainly from my noble friend Lady Byford. The consultation period was very important to us, and it was quite interesting that the agreement was that two years was the best time; this is the period that had been used previously. For example, when the label had to be changed from “EEC fertiliser” to “EC fertiliser”—they had to knock out an “e”—that took two years, which seemed the appropriate amount of time for the bags to be relabelled and for more to be produced with the new label. The transition period is an important issue for the labelling and I am pleased that it seems all parties are happy with where we have got to.
I turn to the comments made by my noble friend Lady McIntosh. It is always a pleasure to see her in these debates, but I sometimes fear slightly what she may say—I do not want to say that she may go off-piste, when I am sure many of us are supposed to be skiing. She certainly asked me some questions that I cannot hope to answer within the scope of what the Committee is discussing. For example, I am afraid that ammonia emissions go far beyond what I have and can help noble Lords with, but it is important that many bodies already exist which farmers can go and speak to on the use of fertilisers. When we get to consider the Agriculture Bill in your Lordships’ House, we will be discussing advice to farmers and their relation to the environmental land management schemes which will be put in place. All those things are very important for how we function in harmony with the countryside, so perhaps my noble friend would hold her horses just a little while longer and we will come back to that.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
I am most grateful to my noble friend for answering as she did. This goes to the point that a number of your Lordships made during the debate that other regulations have been coming through. It must be just as irritating to the team at the department to have this piecemeal approach. It would help farmers enormously if we had one approach to a substance such as ammonia.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
My noble friend is quite right but I see us as doing something specific today, which is to protect our country in the event of a no deal Brexit, which I am sure none of us would want to see. I recognise that we sometimes have to deal with these provisions in a slightly piecemeal fashion but they are designed to be piecemeal—to be nice little nuggets that we can discuss and then hopefully move on, having protected our legislative framework which is clearly so important.
I also put forward a slight word of warning because apart from my Defra job I have another, which is as the Whip for BEIS. I am sure that many of your Lordships will be aware that that department has issued an SI which amounts to 330-odd pages. I see my noble friend Lady McIntosh saying that is not a problem but I am afraid that many people have regarded it as a problem. To a certain extent, bite-size pieces can be better. I see the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, rubbing his hands in glee and I hope that I will not be the Minister taking it through—I am sure that my noble friend Lord Henley will be better by then and with us.
To go back to the matters in hand today, my noble friend Lady McIntosh also mentioned the list of laboratories. Yes, that will be republished. At the current time, I believe that three laboratories do fertilisers. It will be republished shortly and I will make sure that that is the case.
I turn to the points raised by my noble friend the Duke of Montrose. What we are dealing with today is more about the imports than the exports, as I am sure he will appreciate. It is so important that our farmers have continuity of supply. Obviously, we cannot tell the European Union what to do if we leave with no deal. We will unfortunately be in a situation where there will be no reciprocity. However, it is the case that we import vast quantities of fertilisers, including ammonium nitrate, which is why we are extending a warm hand to those overseas manufacturers and saying: “Look, it’s okay. We will continue to recognise your labelling for the next two years to ensure continuity”.
With regard to chemicals more broadly and the REACH SI, regulations on which will I know be coming to us soon, that is a far more complicated area and we will have to go into it. It was most important for us to make sure that we have the systems and laboratories in place, and that we accept the results from overseas laboratories for that two-year period.
The question of exports was raised, both by my noble friend and the noble Baroness, Lady Young. Fertiliser manufacturers based in the UK will, of course, be able to sell products into the EU. If we leave with no deal, they will do so as a third country, but they will have to comply with the EU regulation—they already comply with it at the moment, Regulation (EC) No. 2003/ 2003—and any other relevant legislation.
The noble Baroness raised the point about ensuring establishment—this is a very broad term—within the EU after exit. Sometimes, when exporting to third countries, you have to comply with them as they require. In some cases of larger companies, it would be cost effective to have an office there, but for many it is simply a case of using an import agent in that country. Those requirements would come into being; however, this is for no deal only. If we have an implementation period, none of this will come into play. If we get a free trade agreement thereafter, as we hope, much of this will continue, as we all wish it to, so I am afraid we are dealing solely with a no-deal scenario today.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
On that point, highlighted by the noble Baroness, the technical notice says that Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, being party to the European Economic Area, will be covered. Will lab costs have to be applied to export to those areas in the event of no deal as well?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
We will have to look into that in greater detail. I will write on that. We are possibly slightly off topic, as this is about the cost of exporting, but I will certainly write. I am very happy to do so.
Turning to the pesticides SI, it covers a range of different topics, so it is important that we discuss it today. It updates out-of-date references and provisions in the Ammonium Nitrate Materials (High Nitrogen Content) Safety Regulations 2003 and makes corrections to the EU plant protection product regulatory regime. It is a bit like what my noble friend Lady McIntosh is doing—it covers lots of things, but we are being told that we should not have done that. This instrument was laid on 18 February. We produced an impact assessment, which considered the collective impact of the three statutory instruments, and noble Lords will know that we have already discussed the other two affirmative SIs. This SI was discussed today in relation to the specific provisions about ammonium nitrate.
I believe that I have covered most of the points raised. Like my noble friend Lord Gardiner, I will review Hansard with great interest to check that I have covered all the points. Where I have already promised to write, I will certainly do so.
Animal Welfare Standards
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering(5 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
The noble Lord makes a very strong point. It is the case that it is up to schools whether they provide halal meat. Many schools that have a significant proportion of pupils who are Muslims will supply halal meat, but they might be able to accommodate pupils of other faiths within their food provision. I reassure noble Lords that major retailers have supplier requirements that all meat on supermarket shelves is stunned before slaughter.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I am a fellow of the British Veterinary Association and a regular visitor to auction marts in the north of England. Does the Minister agree that the general problem is that there is meat being sold in this country as normal meat which is actually halal meat being passed off as normal meat? This is an urgent issue that has to be addressed by the Government. Will my noble friend explain to the House how the Government propose to address it?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I thank my noble friend for that question. I have just mentioned the actions that have already been taken by the major retailers, but the Government are well aware of public concern around meat slaughtered in accordance with religious beliefs and we believe that we need to look at labelling and improve it where we can. We believe that if we can give consumers the information they require, they can make an informed choice. The Government have committed to a review of food labelling once our future partnership with the EU is clear.
Brexit: Sheep Farmers
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I thank the noble and learned Lord for his question and am happy to give a little more clarification if I can. As noble Lords will know, the consultation closed earlier this month, to which we had 40,000 responses. Agricultural policy is a devolved matter so there will be a system by which the Government have committed £3 billion of funding, which will continue. That money will be divided up between the four devolved Administrations according to an agreement between them and from then it will be up to the Welsh Government to decide how that money gets to Welsh farmers. In doing so, two considerations must be borne in mind. First, the UK as a whole will always be the unit for international negotiations and, secondly, we must maintain the integrity of the UK internal market.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, will the Minister give the House an assurance today that the Government will not ban the limited and highly regulated export of live trade in sheep? This is a lifeline to farmers in North Yorkshire and other upland farmers in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. It must not be stopped.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
I am sure my noble friend is well aware that our call for evidence closed today. Of course, we will look at the responses. We have also asked the Farm Animal Welfare Committee to look at the transport of live animals. We will respond to the call for evidence in due course.
Marine Special Protection Areas
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
My Lords, as I have already said, the focus of the regulations is not on stopping development or transport proposals. Even where there is an adverse impact, there are alternatives; for example, if there are no feasible alternatives, the transport will be allowed, if there is an imperative reason of overriding public interest and compensatory measures are secured. Obviously, I cannot comment on the specific case of Milford Haven but it seems to me that there are the right adverse impact get-outs in place.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend take this opportunity to review the perpetual protection of certain species, such as bats, badgers and certain birds? Why are rights given in perpetuity to protect these species? Should these rights not be reviewed based on whether a species is actually endangered?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
My Lords, we have spoken about bats in the belfry in this House a number of times recently. I agree with the noble Baroness that perpetuity is potentially not correct and a review may need to happen in due course. But it must be remembered that population changes and impacts on population can sometimes happen over decades and we must never be too hasty.
EU: Transition Deal
Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact on the economy of failure to agree a transition deal with the European Union.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My Lords, because there are so many wonderful speakers and so little time, I will start to look fierce when the clock says three.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I am delighted to have secured this timely debate, and I look forward to contributions from other noble Lords, especially the Minister. I refer to my interests in the register. I also worked as an EU lawyer in Brussels and advised MEPs before myself becoming an MEP. As an MP, I chaired the EFRA Committee, where some 80% of the work originated from EU directives and policies. I am also extremely proud to be half Danish, and I studied at the University of Aarhus.
Yorkshire and other parts of the UK have benefited hugely from our membership of the EU. Examples include current payments to farmers, both direct payments for producing farm products as well as stewardship schemes for environmental benefits, and financial services in Leeds, York and London have flourished within the single market. Leeds Bradford Airport and the Humber ports also provide a gateway to Europe for our goods, services and people to access the EU market.
Despite this, the electorate was split down the middle on the referendum, with only 37% voting for Brexit—52% of the 70% who voted. Many who voted remain stand prepared to change their minds once convinced that it really is in our interest to leave the European Union. Only 18 months are left to finalise the agreement. However, talks leading up to Brexit and the smooth transition afterwards appear to be stalling, which is why I have sought this debate today, to consider what the impact will be on the local and national economy in the event of there being no transition period or no deal being reached at all—and therefore no smooth transition and implementation period following our exit from the European Union.
As the UK applied to the EU Commission to set Article 50 in motion only in March, and negotiations started on 19 June, it would seem extremely precipitate to threaten to walk away after only four months of talks. The UK’s initial opening gambit was somewhat unfortunate in tone. However, the Florence speech which the Prime Minister gave last month represents an altogether more moderate and conciliatory approach. One way for the UK to capitalise on the new mood music and progress the talks would be for it to suggest hosting the talks, or one round of the talks, in London. That would be a positive idea and might be well received by our current partners.
The Prime Minister has said that on the day we leave the EU we will leave the single market and the customs union because we do not agree to the four pillars—the free movement of goods, services, capital and people—or the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Yet she states that we want to carry on trading on the same terms. How can that happen? This smacks of having our cake and eating it, and we have been warned that that is specifically not on the table.
The Government have indicated that they are prepared to walk away from talks without a deal or a transition period, with the Treasury committed to spend £250 million on preparations for such a scenario. Yet transitional arrangements are essential to give businesses more time to plan and eventually to create a new relationship between the UK and the EU. When discussing transition, it is vital to consider the nature of this relationship and the effect it will have on industry.
In farming, there are three potential outcomes of a future trade relationship, none of which guarantees increased production levels or farm-gate prices, although each could threaten higher costs for consumers. Farming confidence, which is key to investment and productivity, has already fallen sharply in the last two years. Continued access to EU workers is essential for the agri-food and hospitality sectors, as it is for the care sector and the NHS. The pound’s fall in value has had a huge impact on the economy. Falling prices have boosted exports yet also increased the price of imported materials. Transitional arrangements would increase certainty for seasonal and other EU workers as well as for the value of the pound. Such arrangements would also allow the Government more time to implement a new domestic agricultural policy to support farming.
The Government, other than stating that the UK does not wish to remain subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, have not explained what the dispute resolution mechanism will be for all those businesses that will still be buying and selling goods with our current EU partners. Such a scheme must be agreed by both sides in advance of any potential trade dispute.
There are many other outstanding issues. What will the customs and excise arrangements be? What will the costs be of putting those in place? How will we avoid the imposition of tariffs and quotas or, worse still, non-tariff barriers? Will financial services be allowed to passport their existing services within the EU? What is the status of the UK within the World Trade Organization? When will we become a member of that organisation in our own right as opposed to negotiating as part of the EU? How long will it take the UK to negotiate each free trade agreement with third countries, as they all lapse on the day that we leave? Is it the UK’s intention to apply under Article 127 to leave the European Economic Area? How costly will the physical checks and inspections at borders be for food, drink and other perishable goods and products?
To some, the US appears to be a preferred trading partner. However, the US rigorously adopts a protectionist approach. It does not, for example, allow foreign carriers to pick up and drop off on domestic air routes, and the aggressive approach that it recently demonstrated against Bombardier is an early indicator of future behaviour. The US and other non-EU countries such as New Zealand have objected to proposals agreed by the EU and the UK on how to split World Trade Organization tariffs on goods post Brexit. It is also a puzzle why the Department for International Trade has appointed a non-British person—a New Zealander—to lead negotiations for future trade deals when there are so many experienced British nationals to choose from in the EU Commission who are already negotiating at a very senior level and who would have seemed a far more appropriate appointment.
Another question is: what can we offer Commonwealth countries in a bilateral trade deal when they already enjoy preferential access to the European Union through ACP-EU membership, strongly encouraged by this country? One of its first achievements to be heralded was the setting of a fair and stable price for sugar.
Britain must demonstrate that it wants to make the best trade deals for Britain, not just any deal at any cost, which could have the potential to compromise our high animal health and welfare standards—for example, by accepting hormone-induced beef and chlorine-rinsed chicken from the United States. We should also be sensitive to the concerns of our near neighbours such as Ireland, where the common border is of concern. Effectively that becomes an external border, yet both sides of the border agree that they want no physical barriers. The EU has made this border issue, along with free movement and the rights of EU citizens, a top priority in these negotiations.
A particular sticking point has arisen over the third major EU priority—the budget: the amount that the UK will contribute to ongoing commitments. These include not just the salaries and pensions of British nationals—such as me—who are or have been officials of the EU institutions, but programmes such as Erasmus, which allows university students to study in other EU countries. There is also Horizon 2020, the EU research and innovation programme for companies, and EASA, the European air safety authority, which regulates licences for airlines.
The Government’s priority is to proceed rapidly to the next stage of negotiations, but what are the alternatives for our future relations? We are told that existing models, which are tried, tested and shown to work, are not suitable. Therefore, concluding a new arrangement by March 2019 is a tall order. It is important to recognise that there has never been a trade agreement for services anywhere in the world to date.
Britain is at a crossroads after taking the biggest single decision in over 40 years, with huge implications for the economy, and Parliament needs to have the best available information to hand. It is therefore appropriate and necessary that the impact assessments undertaken by the Government are published so that we can analyse the impact of Brexit on the economy.
Our European partners are bemused and confused. The messages coming from the Government are mixed, depending on the audience. The complexity of disentangling ourselves from administrative arrangements spanning 40 years is immense. Every sector is crying out for certainty. We owe to the people of Britain clarity, certainty and a smooth transition to future opportunities and challenges.