Transport: Zero-emission Vehicles, Drivers and HS2

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Shipley

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, they absolutely should and, of course, the Government issue guidance for local authorities to make those decisions.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

What has happened to the money saved from the cancellation two years ago of the eastern leg of HS2 into Yorkshire, linking with the east coast main line? The Statement refers to a saving of £36 billion by stopping HS2 at Birmingham, of which £20 billion will go to the north. I am not clear from the Statement or from the Network North document what the plans are for the upgrade of the east coast main line, which has been consistently promised but does not appear in these documents. This is an issue of great concern to me, but it may be that the upgrade money is actually identified and the saving the Government have generated in the eastern leg link through Leeds and to the east coast main line is part of the £36 billion. I do not think it is—I think it has already been delivered as a saving—but I do not know where the money has gone. The Minister may like to write to explain that issue.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I would certainly like to give more information. My notes say “east coast main line”, but they do not exactly say what that means. It is our intention to continue the work we had planned there, as it is with many of the wider schemes in that area.

The focus of the announcement was very much on the savings from the cancellation of the route to Manchester, because that is much further developed. The Manchester line would have been open by 2041, so we were looking at savings over that period. Looking even further into the distance would really stretch noble Lords’ credulity—but over that period up to 2041 we can see the projects coming through. I shall write with further information on the east coast main line.

Rail Services

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Shipley

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, and I am sorry he felt that I was being combative. I think was slightly responding to the fact of it being the terrible Tory Government yet again, when it is about partnership working. If we are going to make our railways work in the future, it is with this sort of partnership working with TfN, which is an organisation I have a great amount of respect for. I worked very closely with it for three years in my role in the Department for Transport. I have an enormous amount of respect for TfN, but it is just trying to understand that there are other parties involved which have been trying to help make sure that TPE operates as well as possible.

I understand the noble Lord’s point about the drivers. It is something that the OLR will need to look at. I think there are two issues: recruitment and retention. TPE has been very successful in recruiting. It has recruited 113 new drivers this year versus only 57 last year, so I hope we can reset the relationship with the new blood coming in—obviously they take a while to train. TPE is already a great place to work. We just need to make sure that the drivers feel supported and able to stay with TPE as it goes into the management of the OLR.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I would like to press the Minister on timescales because the words “temporary measure” have been used. We are in a position now where over half of the UK rail network—that includes Scotland and Wales—is actually controlled by Governments. I feel as though the Government do not quite know what timescales they are operating to with their promise to return TransPennine, for example, to the private sector, at least through contract bidding. What measures are the Government going to use to decide whether TPE can be returned to the private sector? That question follows the other companies which have been put under government control—as I say, to put us in a position where more of the UK rail network is under government control than not. I simply do not know what the Government’s plan is any more. Where are we on Great British Railways? What is actually to happen? Have the Government got any ambition at all, or are they simply now responding to events?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I think it is twofold. Events in the rail industry are having a very significant impact on it and its long-term future, and I am worried about that. In terms of the train operating companies currently under the OLR, whether that be TPE or others, there is a process by which services are stabilised and in certain circumstances they are doing much better than they were before and that is fantastic news. TPE will go through the same sort of process to improve things as much as possible.

Then there would be a competition to procure a new operator. That is a two-phase process. The first is market appetite and the second is the competitive process. On market appetite, there is evidence to suggest—and I could not possibly explain why—some people might be slightly reluctant to get involved in UK railways at the moment. Obviously, that is really disappointing, but I think this goes to the heart of the problem. We want a good railway system or we do not. We need workforce reform. Industrial action is not all about pay; it is about workforce reform as well, and those two things must go hand in hand in order for us to have a modern seven-day railway which works for the passengers. That is what we are trying to achieve. Unfortunately, there are some roadblocks in the way at the current time.

Merchant Shipping (Additional Safety Measures for Bulk Carriers) Regulations 2022

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Shipley

Tuesday 19th July 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

Can I clarify a point on exceptions? The Minister might wish to write. The question I posed was whether we are in line with the international approach to exceptions or whether the list of exceptions in Regulation 7 is unique to the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

It is international, but we will check; if it is not, we will write. The noble Lord can assume it is international unless he gets a letter from me telling him it is not. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Integrated Rail Plan: North and Midlands

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Shipley

Monday 22nd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I appreciate the wise words of my noble friend. It is the case to a certain extent that some people’s expectations were not met by this plan but, as I have said, there are many things to commend it. I have already mentioned Nottingham and Derby, and there are so many other places that will benefit from this plan. This really is building back better but also with better value for money. I know that a number of noble Lords have questions around capacity. I will include in my letter to noble Lords how we intend to improve capacity in various ways on different parts of the railway; it is all set out in the plan but it might be helpful if I draw it all together for noble Lords. I will also perhaps arrange an open meeting with Minister Stephenson so that noble Lords can quiz him; he is the person who knows this back to front.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, in reaching the decision to end the HS2 track in the east Midlands rather than Leeds, and HS2 trains at Sheffield rather than Newcastle, what economic impact assessment was done by the Government of the effects on both Yorkshire and the north-east—given that private developer investment will inevitably follow the HS2 track due to the extra capacity that it will provide—or is it the case that no impact assessment on Yorkshire and the north-east has actually been done?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As I explained previously, different places are getting different things. The impact from an economic perspective will therefore be varied. The integrated rail plan gives more certainty to people who want to invest in various places. Quite frankly, I were a business, I would still look very favourably on Leeds. It is about to have a mass transit system that no one has previously managed to give it.

Transport Infrastructure

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Shipley

Tuesday 11th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

Yes, the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, will be well aware that we are due a final business case, which will set out the benefits and costs for the phase. The notice to proceed will be published alongside it.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I can find no mention in the Statement regarding HS2 and the north-east of England. Can the Minister confirm that there is no change in the plan in relation to that? That is, HS2 rolling stock will run on conventional track north of Leeds, joining the east coast main line just north-east of that city. As I raised when we debated HS2 a couple of weeks ago, to be successful, that link to Newcastle upon Tyne, where I live, needs four tracks on the east coast main line as opposed to the current two. Will the Minister confirm that the Government would be willing to look closely at the case for expanding the number of tracks north of Leeds?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I will certainly take that point back to the department. The parts of the track that the noble Lord mentions will all be part of the integrated plan for rail for the north, which will be an important, if fairly short, project to make sure that HS2 works with NPR and all the multibillion pounds of rail investment that we are already putting into the north. It would be absolutely wrong for us to undertake such a massive and costly project unless we squeeze every single benefit out of it that we can.

Flybe

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Shipley

Tuesday 14th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I am sure that the noble Baroness is well aware of the reason that aviation fuel has no tax on it. The International Civil Aviation Organization is absolutely critical in getting the global aviation industry to work as a whole in many areas, including counterterrorism and climate change. If we are to reduce carbon emissions, we will need the members of ICAO to work together to achieve it. Under the Chicago convention, which set up ICAO, no nation can put tax on aviation fuel.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said that the Government would look at all the options. Perhaps I may suggest that they take a look at the landing charges at large airports for smaller commercial airlines. They might be subject to PSOs, but the overall issue of the cost base of small commercial airlines is particularly relevant.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord makes a very important point, but of course landing charges are set on a commercial basis.

Budget Statement

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Shipley

Tuesday 14th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I am pleased to follow the noble Lord, Lord Livermore, largely because I agree with virtually everything that he said. In a few years’ time this spring Budget will be seen as a watershed because it is the last spring Budget and because serious structural problems in taxation and spending policy have been revealed by the debate about the self-employed, who now represent one in seven of our workforce.

Employment is at an all-time high—that has to be conceded—at 31.8 million. But a lot of that growth in recent years has been in low-paid jobs and jobs that have low productivity rates. I found the Budget surprising in the sense that it was overshadowed by the massive Brexit black hole at the heart of the Treasury’s forecasts. You cannot have a strong economy and a hard Brexit. It was surprising that in his hour-long Budget speech the Chancellor failed not only to talk about housing and its contribution to growth and social inclusion, but crucially to discuss the implications to the economy of leaving the EU single market and the customs union. The Chancellor is supposed to assess our economic prospects in the Budget, but with only two short references in his speech to EU matters, he signally failed to do so.

The Minister has talked about getting the deficit down. The Government have been trying for seven years to get the annual deficit down. In fact, in the last seven years the total debt has risen to £1.7 trillion, which, according to the Government’s own press release, amounts to £62,000 on average per household. This year the deficit will be £52 billion. Of course, it was forecast a year ago to be £38 billion between 2017 and 2020, with the final two financial years producing a surplus. What has actually happened a year later is that the projected increase in the deficit over that period has risen by £100 billion.

When she replies to the debate, will the Minister be in a position to tell the House what modelling the Treasury has undertaken on the impact of higher interest rates over the next few years on the level of debt? She mentioned the annual interest payments of just over £50 billion, but that is at historically low interest rates. It would be helpful to know what modelling has been done by the Treasury for what happens if a range of scenarios might occur.

The Minister referred in her speech to higher growth. There has been some higher growth, but most of that has been fuelled by credit. There is now a case for changes in the tax system. We have seen problems in a whole range of spheres beyond national insurance for the self-employed—business rates is another. There are now issues around the extent to which we tax income rather than wealth. Quite recently we had the issue of whether council tax, which is a local property tax, should be required to fund the increased demands for adult social care. We will have to have a debate about wealth and income, business rates, the role of council tax and the declining level of corporation tax, which is now at 17%. Given the global economy it is of course increasingly difficult for Governments to track what international companies do. That debate will have to be had.

I draw the attention of the Minister to real income growth. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that, by 2022, incomes will be no higher than in 2007. Outside London and the south-east, no part of the United Kingdom has recovered from pre-crash levels. As this debate is about the economy, I remind the Minister that there are different levels of the economy. Neighbourhood economies face great difficulty caused by the freezes and cuts taking place in the benefits system. In the Government’s drive to get the deficit down, the impact on some neighbourhood areas is sometimes forgotten. I hope that the Minister might look at that.

This is not all negative. I welcome the £500 million investment in technical education, which is hugely beneficial. The extra PhD places and loans for part-time and doctoral students are welcome; the industrial strategy fund is welcome, as are new approaches to lifelong learning. However, there is an issue about employers investing. UK employers invest half as much as other employers in the EU in workplace training for employees. We should adopt the model that many other countries have of a single body to co-ordinate state-led business support and provide a forum for shared learning across the public, private and third sectors.

Perhaps I may ask the Minister about the British Business Bank. It seems to be doing good work; it is collaborating with local enterprise partnerships and certainly to my knowledge, across the north of England, is seeking to increase regional economic development. I understand that it will operate with a slightly wider risk appetite than high-street banks, which is welcome, but I seek the Minister’s assurance that the British Business Bank is Britain-wide and will not just go for the easy wins.

I welcome the apprenticeship levy. While it is not directly part of this Budget, it is very important. There have, however, been problems behind the need to increase apprenticeships. The report, Apprenticeships for Northern Growth, launched three weeks ago at the northern powerhouse conference, makes it clear that the north of England,

“faces a shortfall in productivity compared to other areas, with a skills gap emerging before individuals leave school”.

That is very important. I want also to refer to a press release issued by the Baker Dearing Educational Trust approximately 10 days ago. It states that the trust undertook a survey of 1,000 young STEM workers and found that,

“three out of five (60%) of those surveyed didn’t believe teachers had a sufficient understanding of the labour market and a similar number … felt that schools didn’t understand the skills employers needed”.

To what extent is the Minister confident that Ofsted is inspecting adequately what is happening in careers advice in schools?

The Chancellor made great play of the fact that the proportion of young people not in work or education is now the lowest since records began. It sounds a great achievement. Actually, we still have 850,000 16 to 24 year-olds who are not in education, employment or training. I am looking for measures that demonstrate that the Government understand that and will do something concrete about it.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I respectfully remind your Lordships’ House that we have an advisory speaking limit of six minutes. There is another debate after this one and I am sure that those taking part in it would appreciate noble Lords not exceeding that limit.