Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Friday 18th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I echo the remarks of noble Lords who queried the point of having such retrospective debates. Many of the public, who already feel confused, would be even more confused if they were to listen to our activities this morning. And is it surprising that the public is confused, given the contradictory nature of the rules that currently cause confusion in the country? The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, pointed towards the illogicality of the rule of six and how it will impact on families. I do not doubt that, before very long, the Government will decide that children under the age of 10, 11 or 12 no longer should be counted in that number. Meanwhile, untold agonies are being caused to families as planned celebrations and family gatherings have to be abandoned.

There is also confusion over the ruling on wearing masks. Why is it obligatory to wear a mask in a library or a public reading room, yet people are supposed to go into offices free of masks? It is not surprising that people are not rushing back to work in offices when they feel unclear about what is safe. Perhaps I could also query the logic in allowing gyms to open and not insist on those who use them wearing masks. If ever there was an environment, no matter how hard the operators try, in which this deadly virus could be passed around, it seems to me that a gym—an indoor space in which people are exercising hard—must be one of the most vulnerable.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I completely agree with the sentiments shared by my noble friend. Transparency has the effect of sunlight, putting a spotlight on information. It helps those who wish to contribute to make their efforts felt. We have embraced transparency: I cite the example of SAGE, where the minutes of its meetings and the data it works on are routinely published. I completely endorse my noble friend’s comments.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, given that there have been hardly any tests available to Londoners for at least the last four days, and probably much longer, can the Minister say what belief we should have in the statistics for the prevalence of the virus in the country, and in particular in London? Furthermore, the Health Secretary—when he was not blaming the public for the shortage of available tests—did admit that there were problems with a couple of contracts. Could the Minister explain what those problems are and why, according to the Health Secretary, it will take a couple of weeks to sort them out?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the statistics on prevalence are provided by the ONS. They were published yesterday and today—both the ONS and REACT figures. I would be happy to share links to those publications with my noble friend. Regarding the troubled contracts, I do not know the quotation to which she alludes but if she would like to correspond with me, I would be glad to try to figure it out.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his clear explanation of the regulations. Clearly it is right that local authorities have these powers, but as he said, local intelligence is key to decision-making in coping with this pandemic. In 2018, with the horrific Novichok poisonings in Salisbury, we saw that local public health officials were able to deal brilliantly with containing the problem, yet while the Government pay lip service to local empowerment, their tendency is still to centralise. This was all too evident in the recent fiasco over restrictions in Stockport, Bolton and Trafford. While the Mayor of Manchester, Andy Burnham, was adamant that the restrictions should not be lifted, the Government insisted on doing so. The Mayor went as far as advising people to continue to follow the restrictions. The local intelligence of the Mayor was right, and within hours the Government U-turned—something of a habit. Can the Minister explain why the Government originally overruled the local intelligence?

In a similar vein, we learned today that last week was the worst ever for test and trace, with a contact rate of less than 70%. Local health protection teams have a contact tracing success rate that is very close to 100%, so again, can the Minister explain why we have such a centralised test and trace system when the problem is localised?

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2020

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 25th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the regulations as a step in the right direction, but I wonder about the logic that is driving the changes. For instance, Primark could open before zoos could. That seems strange.

There is a question that I have asked twice in the Chamber; on both occasions, I failed to get a response, so I will try one more time. I am sure that my noble friend Minister read at the weekend what the Sunday Times wrote about the vast polling operation that is going on and the focus groups that are being held every week to ask the public—Conservative voters in particular—what they think would be the right policy responses to the Covid crisis. I can only believe that that was why we got extraordinary quarantine regulations saying that people could fly into this country and travel on public transport before being quarantined for 14 days. Can the Minister tell me that focus groups and polling are not dictating the shape of government policy on Covid and that, as we have heard repeatedly, we are being led by the science?

National Health Service Commissioning Board and Clinical Commissioning Groups (Responsibilities and Standing Rules) (Amendment) Regulations 2020

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Monday 8th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, for securing this timely debate. The noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, just referred to the fact that, in his first speech as Prime Minister, Boris Johnson promised that he would “fix” the social care issue “once and for all”. That is an admirable promise, but of course not one that a single political party can fulfil. This is a huge issue that has built up over many years. What we need is total cross-party agreement on a way forward. Unless we have that co-operation, this sore will not be dealt with.

Many of the problems have been highlighted by earlier speakers, in particular the privatisation of social care in many cases, and the private equity need to take money out on a grand scale. Clearly, that is not a recipe to secure our care homes and their residents for the long term.

However, there is one thing that I believe we could do immediately to improve the lot of those who are resident in care homes. I was appalled to see that the personal allowance that residents are allowed to hang on to when they are living in a care home is the princely sum of £24.90 a week. That is not enough to allow those elderly people to indulge in the few small treats that might make their life rather better. Will the Minister consider increasing that allowance immediately so that their quality of life can be improved? It need not be a huge amount, but anything on top of that meagre allowance would clearly make a difference.

Finally, I want to put forward just one small thought—a means by which, when we are in a post-Covid era, we might improve the funding of social care homes and the lot of those who live in them. There have been several experiments in Holland in which nursery schools are run on the same sites as care homes. It works. It benefits both the children and the elderly residents. Their quality of life improves by leaps and bounds—and, of course, the nursery schools make a contribution in terms of rent. Will the Minister give serious thought to that consideration and to how it might be put into practice?

Covid-19: Response

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right. As a nation, we have been hit really hard by this disease and it is heart-breaking. I would have loved this country to have somehow dodged the bullet and not been the one that was hit so hard. We all feel it: we feel a great sense of responsibility and a great sense of sadness that so many lives have been lost, and that there are so many for whom the result of having had the disease and survived will be life changing. One thing that we have learned is that this disease hits you really hard and some people will never fully recover from it. However, I cannot help but pay tribute to those involved.

I do not know why we have been hit so hard. I do not know whether it is due to British behaviours and the fact that we have obesity in this country. I do not know whether it is because we are such an international country with such a large number of people coming to and fro, particularly from China. I do not know whether the Government made massive and colossal mistakes, as their critics suggest, and whether we got it all completely wrong. All I know is that the response to this disease by the British public, the NHS and the Government has not lacked energy, innovation and enthusiasm, and I stand here at this virtual Dispatch Box extremely proud of our country and of the people who have played a role in the response to this disease.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the public might find it easier to stick within the rules now governing our life with coronavirus if they understood the logic. Therefore, can the Minister explain the logic or the science behind the fact that a household consisting of my son, his wife and their daughter can meet with only one member of a household consisting of his father and his mother at any one time?

[Lord Bethell]

It is very simple. If you have one person from another household meeting your household, the chances are that you will all respect the two-metre social distancing recommendation. The moment a second person is present, the proximity gauges and the way in which you all relate to each other become confused. You all start standing nearer to, and breathing all over, each other, and it becomes easier to catch the disease. That is just a simple human observation and is based on human nature and on the physical science of proximity. The example that the noble Baroness gives is a really good one, and I completely feel her frustration that her two families cannot spend time together. However, the behavioural scientists are absolutely adamant on this point, and to me at least it is common sense.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, we were not equipped to cope with the pandemic when Covid-19 hit. Despite the shortcomings identified in 2016 and the inevitability of such a viral attack, we had pitifully few intensive care beds and a dearth of PPE, so the lockdown was necessary to enable the NHS to gear up.

People have largely played by the rules, but the damage inflicted on people’s mental health and on the economy has been huge and should not be prolonged. The Government cannot continue prescribing people’s lifestyles as these regulations do. They must move towards trusting people’s common sense, not just talking about it. It is very clear who is most vulnerable to the virus. It is surely right to assume that a wish for self-preservation will deter those most at risk from assuming an unnecessary level of risk, but society as a whole must cope with living with the risk of Covid. We are accumulating debts, both public and private, which will affect the lives of generations. To prolong the economic misery is to make the treatment worse than the disease.

Lord Sumption has said:

“We have resorted to law, which requires exact definition, and banished common sense, which requires judgment.”


Sadly, as other noble Lords have said, exact definition is missing from much of the regulations, and it is very hard for people to apply judgment when regulations are trying to limit their behaviour. Now is the time to allow the public to exercise their judgment. If people judge it important to meet both their parents simultaneously, is it really the role of government to tell them they cannot? If young people want to go to the pub, is it really the role of government to tell them they cannot? The noble Lord, Lord Wei, suggested that perhaps the public could be told more about how the virus was behaving in their area. I agree that that would help them form their judgment.

Families must be able to resume family life. The hospitality and tourism industries must be allowed to reopen their doors. If that does not happen soon, for many of them it never will. Social distancing is a concept now well understood. The Government should trust the people to be sensible and socially distance themselves. They should concentrate their efforts on supporting our health service and care workers. This virus has highlighted the low priority given to social care for many years. Could the Minister say whether he believes that the regulations governing care homes are sufficient to ensure that they are not used as dumping grounds by the NHS?