Home Office Visas for Ukrainians

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Meyer

Thursday 10th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, when history books are written, the United Kingdom will be judged as much by its humanitarian response as by its supply of weapons to Ukraine. Can my noble friend the Minister assure the House that instructions on how to apply for visas are written in clear English, in Ukrainian and in Russian, and that the new online service will not crash as soon as it opens on Tuesday?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I can certainly undertake to do that for my noble friend.

Ukraine: Urgent Refugee Applications

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Meyer

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I think that what the noble Lord has done is outline how the people of Ukraine would actually like to get back to Ukraine. His suggestion about small charities that are able to help, whether here or in Romania, is really sensible. In terms of the numbers crossing into Romania, I cannot verify those figures, but I am absolutely sure that it must be a very high number indeed. On the subject of the morning briefings, he must be able to lip-read, because my noble friend Lord Ahmad and I were in fact talking about that just before we stood up.

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, given the extraordinary nature of our times, exemplified yesterday by the eloquent and historic address by President Zelensky, might the Home Office not rise to the moment and welcome Ukrainian refugees in Calais with open arms, instead of chips and KitKats?

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Baroness Meyer

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 25th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord’s very balanced view. It is absolutely right that we do not undermine what is very good legislation by acting in haste and regretting at leisure. The case study the noble Lord outlined was in the back of my mind as well.

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I have made so many notes that I do not know where to start. I thank all those who spoke very kindly, particularly those who support my amendments. Listening to the people who oppose them was really interesting. It made me realise how some people are quite misinterpreting their purpose. They are not about disarming women confronted by abusive men—quite the opposite; I am such a woman. False accusations are quite a different issue.

As I mentioned, it is for the courts to decide in their investigation or fact-finding hearings whether a situation is parental alienation, purposefully done by one parent using the child as a tool against the other. I do not know whether noble Lords can imagine how that feels. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, said that she was in a situation like that, but it probably was not very much; it was probably a grandmother telling her that her mother was not very nice. However, many children are indoctrinated. Some people talk about children being in a cult, being constantly and continuously indoctrinated by being told that the other parent and the other family are bad. Those children live in fear of the disapproval of the parent who is alienating them.

The point I am trying to make is that parental alienation is about control; it is about one parent wanting to control the other. This is coercive behaviour. We might regret refusing to include parental alienation in the Bill because we would put children most at risk. My noble friend Lady Helic said that there is no data to prove parental alienation. I believe that there is, because many people are talking about it and are worried about it being used in some cases. Thousands of studies have been done, and I can gladly send them to the Minister. Noble Lords talked about Dr Gardner, who has been dead for 20 years. He was talking about parental alienation syndrome, but things have moved on since then. The fact that he came up with one idea that was then, properly, rejected does not mean that all the other research done afterwards is invalid.

I understand that some people feel very strongly that this is misused, but I go back to the point that it would be up to the courts. That is why we have courts and why, as the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, said, it is very important for more judges to understand what parental alienation is about. This is why we have Cafcass, and why this is recognised and in law in many countries. I do not know why we are having such a strong debate against it here. It fits in the Bill because it is used against one parent. Imagine being the parent against whom it is used: you are in a terrible position because your child dislikes you, he objects to seeing you and you cannot force the situation because you will upset him even more. It is a very efficient way to control one parent.

Lastly, the guidance will not help judges because it is not statutory. If parental alienation is just in the guidance it will not help to solve the issue earlier on.

I hope that the Minister and her department can talk with me about parental alienation to find another way to include it somewhere in the Bill—not in the guidance, but somewhere more prominent—and to make it clear that this is not anything to do with gender. I very much fear that this whole debate against parental alienation and a lot of stuff in the Bill are gender biased; there are male victims. I am talking here about children. I hope the Minister will accept discussing this further, so that we can find another way to include it in the Bill.

At this time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment, but I look forward to coming back to it at the next stage.