EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks. This comes back to the issue of manufacturing and access to the single market, and that needs to loom very large in the negotiation. Nothing changes for probably the next two years at least while the negotiation carries on, but we need to make sure, as we come out of the end of the article 50 process, that we have that access properly set out so that our manufacturers know what they are doing.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I thank the Prime Minister for his strong condemnation of the racist attacks on members of the Polish community and others, and may I pay tribute to him for the respect and commitment that he has shown to Britain’s ethnic minority community over the past six years, and for creating the most diverse Administration of any Conservative Prime Minister in history? In respect of the summit yesterday, was there a discussion of the comments made by the Mayor of Calais or the French Economy Minister that the juxtaposed borders should be taken out of France and returned to the United Kingdom? Does he agree that that deal was made between Britain and France and has nothing to do with the referendum?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments about my support for Britain’s ethnic minorities and the diversity that we see on the Government Benches. That has been a very important change in our politics and one that I hope will continue. We did not discuss last night the juxtaposed border control issue or the remarks of the Mayor of Calais. My view is that this is a treaty between Britain and France. We certainly want to keep it, and we hope that the French do too, but I do not resile from anything I said in the referendum campaign about the risks that there are. We need to redouble our efforts to try to make sure that the borders remain where they are.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 18th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am going to make some progress, because I want to make this argument. Then I will happily take interventions.

Extremists hate that fact, because it challenges their whole world view—the preachers who say that Christians, Jews and Muslims cannot live together; the so-called community leaders who say women cannot travel more than a few miles beyond the city in which they live; the activists who insist on segregation at political meetings; and the religious schools that teach children not to mix with those from different religions, and that sometimes teach that Jews are the enemy. To those who say that pointing this out is somehow illiberal, intolerant or Islamophobic, I say, “Nonsense.” It is not real liberalism to walk on by and pretend that this is not happening, or to say that it is just part of someone else’s culture. Real liberalism means standing up for our liberal values, and that is what we need to do in our country.

I want to make one last point before giving way. It is certainly not the preserve of one party to make this point. Whether it is my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) on the Government side of the House or the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr Mahmood) on the Opposition Benches, I have heard powerful speeches on this from right across the House. So when it comes to our Queen’s Speech proposal for a counter-extremism and safeguarding Bill, whether we are disrupting the activity of the extremists or protecting young people in unregulated schools, I hope there will be all-party support to tackle the poisonous ideology that is at the heart of the extremist threat.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

rose—

[The Prime Minister]

I give way to the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee.

[Keith Vaz]

I am most grateful to the Prime Minister. It is very clear that one of the areas that is used by the jihadists to recruit British citizens, especially young British citizens, is the internet. Does he agree that more should be done, and perhaps enshrined in legislation, to ensure that the internet companies do much more to take down these websites and to pursue those responsible for this hate?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree about that. It is fair to say that over 170,000 pages have been taken down under this Government because of the work we have done with the internet companies. I have great hope here, because the internet companies originally said that they could not work with us on tackling online child pornography, and then they did, and a huge amount of change has come about. They are now beginning to see that whether it is beheading videos, jihadist videos, or the rest of it, they need to act and demonstrate their own responsibilities. I am hugely hopeful that if we are clear in this House about what needs to be done and we work with internet companies, we can make a huge amount of improvement.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I thank the Prime Minister for joining Leicestershire MPs and the rest of the planet in congratulating Leicester City football club on their brilliant and historic success in the premier league? During this amazing season, local Leicester hero, Gary Lineker, thought the idea of Leicester winning the league was so far-fetched that he said he would present “Match of the Day” in his underwear if they won. Does the Prime Minister, as an Aston Villa supporter—my commiserations to him on their season—agree that, in politics as well as in football, when people make a promise, they should keep it?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree. I have been watching everything Gary Lineker has said since, and he is not quite answering the question—something that, of course, no one ever gets away with in this House. I welcome what the right hon. Gentleman has said; obviously, I hope it is just the start of him joining the blue team.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 21st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is the view of the legal adviser to the European Council that what is being proposed is legal. Is it difficult to achieve? Yes, absolutely it is, because we have to consider each case individually. Is it possible, if we designate Turkey as a safe country for Syrian refugees, to return people there? Yes, it is possible. Looking at the problems we have had with mass movements of people over the years, we have to have a set of measures that break the link between getting in a boat and getting settlement. Until we do that, we are basically unable to deal with the crisis. That is what Europe has now set out to do, and we should encourage it in that goal.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I agree with the Prime Minister that progress has been made, but it has come at a cost. Turkey will be getting €3 billion, and it has asked for another €3 billion by the end of 2018. Greece, on the other hand, which has to process, house and return these migrants, has not been pledged any additional resources. Does he agree that next we need to take preventive action through Frontex to stop the criminal gangs exploiting those migrants, who now come through different routes?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for what the right hon. Gentleman says. I would argue, first, that the money that is going to Turkey is not money for Turkey—it is money for Syrian refugees in Turkey and for it to make sure they are properly looked after. We have given support to Greece; there is a European programme to help. But above all Greece needs support from experts—translators and those with asylum expertise—which all the main countries in Europe are now offering to provide. What is required is a plan to make sure that it gets what it needs. I think that help in kind will probably be more useful for firming up the Greek system than just giving it money.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 22nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. There is good will towards Britain because of the contribution we make to the EU. There is understanding of the problems and difficulties that we have had. Therefore, with a huge amount of diplomacy —travel and meetings and everything else—it has been possible to get, I think, a good agreement for Britain. As I said in my statement, if we were somehow to kick over the table and ask for a second one, I do not think that would be remotely feasible.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I particularly welcome the equalisation of the spouse visa rules, which discriminated unfairly against British citizens? May I also ask the Prime Minister to recognise the work of the Minister for Europe? I managed only two years in the job; he has done six, and he has still retained his sanity—almost.

On the other big issue, the migration crisis, the British head of Europol said today that 5,000 jihadists are now within the European Union area. Many of them have come in through the external border of the EU. What additional help is being given to Greece and Italy, in particular, to try to deal with protecting the external border, with the support of Frontex?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me thank the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks about the Europe Minister, who was with me in Brussels for this marathon negotiation —I thought his eyes were shutting for a minute there. He has been doing the job for six years, and has done it extremely well.

The point about spousal visas is important. For many years, we argued that this needed to be sorted out, and for many years the EU said back, “Well, if you want to equalise the rules, change your own rules.” Now, we have in effect managed to change its rules, so it is a real breakthrough.

In terms of the help that we are giving to Italy and Greece, the discussions in Brussels were very intense because the numbers really have to be reduced, and reduced radically. That is why I strongly support, and Britain will contribute to, the maritime operation—it will have strong NATO support, as well as EU support—to try to bring together Greece and Turkey, with a common information picture or common intelligence about what is happening, so we can stop so many of these criminal gangs operating in the area. Without that, there will not be the right chance of getting this situation under control.

Syria

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful for my hon. Friend’s support. He is right to say how important it is always to have a clear strategy—to have a set of goals and clear means to achieve those goals, which is what I believe I have set out today. The Americans are bearing a lot of the burden of attacking ISIL in Syria, but with other allies, including moderate Arab states. Obviously the greater the part that we play in response to their requests, the greater influence we can have on the course of the campaign, and, in answer to questions from Opposition Members, the greater accuracy we can insist on in terms of targeting.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has made a very powerful case this morning. On Tuesday, the head of counter-terrorism said in evidence to the Home Affairs Committee that the threat of Daesh in this country is very real. May I press the Prime Minister on two points? First, an inevitable consequence of our intervention will be that the migration crisis will get much worse. I know that we are ready for that, but is the rest of the European Union ready for it? Secondly, the Prime Minister says that he is the servant of the House. We are all servants of the people. Could I invite him to invite leaders of the Muslim community to meet him at Downing Street, so that he can put the case to them as eloquently as he has put it to us?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his support, and for what he has said about his Select Committee and the evidence it received from counter-terrorism experts. I believe they are all speaking with the same voice about the risks we face from this so-called caliphate. The right hon. Gentleman is right to raise the issue of migration. In the end, the only way to stop the migration crisis is a political solution in Syria, and as I have argued, this action goes together with the political solution we need. He is right to say how important it is to discuss all the issues with members of the Muslim community. I have set up a new engagement forum, and I will look very closely at the specific idea he has suggested.

National Security and Defence

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 23rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I also welcome the additional resources for counter-terrorism. We have the best counter-terrorism officers in the world, and this is the right time to increase the budget. Last week, the global terrorism index showed that last year 32,600 people were killed in terrorist attacks in 67 countries. In his statement, the Prime Minister is integrating what is happening in this country with our strategy abroad. He mentioned Tunisia, for example. How will the Tunisian Government be assisted by a national security strategy in our country, bearing it in mind that what happens on the streets of Tunisia or Sana'a, in Yemen, ends up on the streets of London?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Countries as diverse as Tunisia, Yemen, Nigeria and Somalia can take heart from our strategy, because we recognise that their security and our security are inextricably linked. We want to help with things such as aviation security, on which we are massively extending our budget, and with building their armed services, policing and counter-terrorism capabilities. In the coming years, there will be an important role for our Army to play, in terms of forming training battalions, and for our intelligence services, as they increase their capabilities and trust in partner agencies, which can play an important role in keeping us safe.

G20 and Paris Attacks

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 17th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. For too long in some European countries, Governments have felt that the way to handle community relations is to leave people in different silos and listen to self-appointed community leaders rather than engage directly with people. When it comes to this battle against extremism, we should not be neutral. We should be very clear about the groups we will engage with because they back the values we share, and those that we do not agree with and frankly think might be part of the problem. Greater clarity on this is probably not just necessary in Britain; I expect it is going to be necessary in other parts of Europe too.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Last Friday evening at Wembley stadium, when the Prime Minister shared a platform with Prime Minister Modi, he made a speech about being proud to be the leader of the most multi-cultural country in the world. Does he agree that in order to protect and preserve that, we need to be very aggressive in our counter-narrative, and that that means the internet companies doing much more than they are currently to take away the most important method of recruitment, while internationally it means working with Europol and Interpol and giving them the support they need, as this is an international issue?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the support that he gave to the Indian Prime Minister’s visit to our country last week. What I said standing alongside Prime Minister Modi is that while of course we still have to fight discrimination and racism in our country, I think we can lay some claim to being one of the most successful, multi-racial, multi-faith, multi-ethnic democracies in our world. India aspires to do that as well, and it should link us. The right hon. Gentleman is right about working with internet companies. Just as we have worked with them to try to take paedophilia and child pornography off the internet, so there is more we can do to get this extremism off the internet as well.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about that. Obviously, the situation we face at Calais is difficult and there are still several thousand people who would like to, as I put it, break into Britain, but we see that that is a very small share of the overall scale of migration when we look at the bigger picture. We are very fortunate to have this excellent agreement with the French. It works well for both countries and clearly we should not do anything to put that at risk.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the target of 1,000 Syrian refugees by Christmas and the extra support for Turkey, which is long overdue. The Prime Minister needs to accept, however, that the scenes of migrants being shunted from EU country to EU country—from countries such as Hungary that believe in the values of the European Union—are desperately sad. Will he tell the House what additional support is going to be given to Europol, because criminal gangs are still preying on innocent migrants who are trying to get to the European Union and we have to act together if we are to stop these gangs?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that the scenes of what is happening are deeply depressing, concerning and worrying, which is why we want to discourage people from making this journey. On the help that we can give, as I have said, we have given resources and personnel to Frontex, even though we are not a member of that organisation, and we have given resources—more than most other European countries—to the European Asylum Support Office, which is providing a lot of the technical support. I will certainly look at what Europol needs and its requirements, but it can always make a business case to us for more support.

Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. One of the ways to make sure that the criminal gangs do not benefit is to take people out of the camps, rather than take people who have arrived in Europe, because, tragically, many of them are being inveigled into using criminal gangs, which benefit when the trade in people increases.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s statement and remind him that it was the Ugandan Asians arriving in Leicester that so transformed that city. I agree with him that direct recruitment should be from the camps; however, there will be exceptional cases of people who have arrived in mainland Europe, some of whom I have met in Calais, who have ties with the United Kingdom and who may need to be processed. Will he look at those cases? In particular, will he please stress to the EU the need to support Europol? That is the organisation best placed to deal with the criminal gangs and Daesh, and we should give it more support.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about Europol, and we are putting in investment and working very closely with it. We are also putting National Crime Agency officials into the operations in Sicily and elsewhere to break up the criminal gangs. I would be very cautious, however, about his suggestion about Calais. Anything that suggests that Calais will become a processing centre for people to come to the United Kingdom would simply make the situation there worse. We need to explain to people that coming to Calais and trying to get through the tunnel is not the way to get to the United Kingdom. That is what all the security and the defences are about, and we should keep them up.

Tunisia, and European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 29th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, may I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to Carly Lovett? We have all heard the heartbreaking story about that young woman gunned down in the prime of life. He is right to say that the threat is everywhere. The difference between this type of threat and the al-Qaeda threat that we faced for many years, and which we still face, is that in the latter case we were often dealing with centrally co-ordinated plots, so if we could get on to them we could try to work out how to mitigate them. Here we are dealing with a lot of self-radicalised so-called Jihadis who have been radicalised through the internet, often by people in Syria or Iraq. Hopefully in many cases we will get advance warning and be able to stop them, but in some cases we will not. That can happen in Britain, as it can around the world. That underlines the social responsibility of social media companies, as I said earlier, but also the need for us to have the most modern capabilities to deal with the treat. As for migration, we are signatories to the Dublin convention and we want to ensure that it continues to work.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Two and a half years ago, in his first speech of the UK’s presidency of the G8, the Prime Minister warned about the terrorist threat in the Maghreb because of the disintegration of Libya. I welcome the Home Secretary’s presence in Sousse to reassure not only the British citizens there, but the Tunisian Government and people, but the Prime Minister is having bilateral discussions with Heads of Government. What is the international way, and what platform can we use, to defeat those who wish to act in this horrific way?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman asks a very direct question. There are several platforms that can work. The G7 wants to have a clearing house for assisting countries like Libya, Tunisia, Morocco and Egypt to make sure that, when not all the countries are offering the same sort of help and assistance, we have more of a working out of who should be working with which country. I hope that that can be put into place and work soon, because it makes sense for Britain, for instance, to partner a country like Nigeria and possibly Libya. Other countries, with their historical links, may be better placed to partner other countries. That is one network. The other is using the EU’s neighbourhood programme to make sure that we give better assistance and support, and building up the civil societies and economies of the countries in north Africa.

G7

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. In looking at the components of a deal, we need Europe to come forward with an offer, which we have done, and we need America and China, the big countries, to be engaged in the debate, making offers about carbon emissions, but what will bring it all together is making sure that the advanced world brings forward climate finance funds, so that we can reassure poorer countries, island states and others that there will be assistance for them as they fight climate change and make the necessary changes in their own economies. Britain has put a lot of money on the table. We now need others to do the same, and I think we will make progress in the coming months.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Further to the contributions of the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) and the leader of the Scottish National party, Prime Minister Renzi told the summit that 100,000 people have crossed the Mediterranean since 1 January and 1,750 have died. They are crossing at the rate of 600 a day. I agree with the Prime Minister that this is a frustrating situation, but the Khartoum process does not seem to be working and Frontex is not doing its job. Do we need another mechanism to try to deal with this problem?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. The mechanism that we need is to have a partner with whom we can work. Frankly, until there is a Libyan Government and an ability to go after the criminal gangs and to turn people back as they get into boats, all the other steps we take—picking people up and all the rest of it—are vital for humanitarian reasons but will not add up to a policy that will reduce this migration flow. We have to recognise that the one place where that has worked in the past, the Spanish efforts to stop people going to the Canary islands, was where they were able to work with Governments, invest in those Governments and invest in the necessary security. That is the model we need to follow.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 27th May 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right: we have to recognise that the jobs growth in this country is likely to come from small and medium-sized enterprises, rather than big firms. What we have to do is continue the drive of deregulation and keeping taxes down for those vital businesses. In the end, it is not Governments that create jobs; it is businesses, and that is why we will continue to be a business-friendly Government.

Delivering for working people also means controlling immigration. Members right across the House will have heard that issue raised on doorstep after doorstep during the election campaign, and I am determined that we should deliver. Our new immigration Bill takes action right across the board, including extending our approach of rapid deportation. People who have no right to be here should not be able to launch appeal after appeal after appeal. Under our plans, they will be deported first and can only appeal later.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

An issue of immediate concern is the situation in the Mediterranean. The proposal of the EU to initiate quotas is, in my view, not the answer. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that the solution to the problem is to deal directly with the countries of the Maghreb, so that they can deal with the people traffickers and the criminal gangs who are forcing people to their deaths?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman, who led the Select Committee on Home Affairs in such an accomplished way in the last Parliament, is absolutely right about this. My fear is that if we have a repatriation programme that distributes migrants across the European Union, all it will do is act as a new draw for the criminal gangs and for people to get on those unsafe boats and head off into the Mediterranean. What we need to do is focus on the two things that will make the biggest difference: one is trying to get a competent Government in Libya—a Government that have authority and that we can deal with—and the second is to break the link between people getting on a boat and getting settlement rights in Europe. We need to return people to the continent of Africa. There is a clear model that worked well. When the Spanish Government faced this problem, with people arriving in the Canary Islands, they worked with the relevant countries and invested in their security, and they were able to deal with the problem. That is the approach we should take.

We should also be using our significant aid budget. It is to this country’s great credit that we have kept our promises to the poorest in the world and achieved that 0.7% target. Together with European partners, we should be using that budget and trying to stabilise and improve conditions in the countries from which these people are coming. They are not by any means all Libyans. In fact, very, very few of them are Libyans—they are Eritreans, Somalis and Nigerians. We need to stabilise those countries to take away the cause. We also need to go after the criminal gangs because they are the ones who are profiting from this evil trade.

The second set of Bills in this Queen’s Speech is about spreading opportunity more widely by helping people out of poverty. The best way to do this is not by spending money that we do not have, but by helping people to get a job and a good education. Again, we are building on a strong platform: in the last Parliament inequality fell and relative poverty reached its lowest level in over a quarter of a century. By the end of the Parliament over a million more children were being taught in good or outstanding schools. Over a million people came off the main out-of-work benefits and over 2 million got into work, but the challenge for this Parliament is how we go further.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 23rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think there are millions of people in our country who want to have that say. We have not had a referendum since 1975. We cannot remain in these organisations without the full-hearted consent of the British people behind us. So it is time to have the referendum, but let us have it on the basis of a renegotiation. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: there is only one way to get that referendum, and that is to make sure that there is a Conservative majority and a Conservative Prime Minister after the next election.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The crisis in Libya is having catastrophic consequences. Prime Minister Matteo Renzi has said that of the 170,000 people who entered Italy illegally last year, 92% did so from Libya, and the figures for this year show a 64% increase. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is not enough to give more resources to Frontex—we also have to deal with the source countries to help them stop migrants putting their lives at risk or being profited from by traffickers?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We will not solve the problem simply by more sea patrols—nor, indeed, by returning to the Mare Nostrum policy, which sounded humanitarianly sound, but deaths at sea during the period of its operation increased fourfold. So there is no alternative to trying to stabilise these countries and deal with the problem at source. We are able to use our aid and other budgets, with European partners, to do that, and we should certainly do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 18th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful for the invitation. I was at BAE’s other main site in the north-west, the Warton site, last week as part of the celebration of national apprenticeship week. I was looking at the training and the skills being delivered there. It is hiring 440 apprentices this year, which is a record for BAE Systems which is doing very well under this Government. This is vital work. We have delivered 2 million apprentices in this Parliament and we aim to deliver 3 million in the next Parliament. These manufacturing apprenticeships are particularly vital. So yes, I will certainly take up my right hon. Friend’s invitation to come and open this excellent academy.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Last Saturday, the Prime Minister spoke at the unveiling of the magnificent Mahatma Gandhi statue in Parliament square. I observed him in deep conversation with Arun Jaitley, the Indian Finance Minister, and Amitabh Bachchan, the country’s greatest actor. Which man offered him the best advice for the next election? Was it the person who presented a budget that will affect a sixth of humanity, or an actor whose acting tips might well help the Prime Minister in the TV debates?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful that the right hon. Gentleman was able to attend that beautiful ceremony around the superb statute. There was a great turnout of Members of Parliament, schoolchildren and others to see the extraordinary statue. I think it is quite right that Mahatma Gandhi stands there alongside Churchill and Mandela in such an important square for our nation. As for the advice I was given, those were private conversations, so I shall not delve too far into them. All I will say is that the new Indian Government and the reforms they are making, opening up the Indian economy, will make sure that the relationship between our countries becomes stronger still.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 23rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

When it comes to issues about trade deals, single market issues and many foreign policy issues, Britain plays a key and leading role, as we have done over sanctions on Ukraine. On the question of how the Germans behave towards Greece, that is a matter for them. I know that if I were the German Chancellor and I had lent another country a lot of money, I would want to get it back. I think my hon. Friend and I agree that this is one of the fundamental challenges at the heart of the eurozone and is a permanent reminder of why we are better off outside it.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Of course, Greece’s problems are of its own making. However, Greece provides a vital service to the rest of the EU because it polices the external borders of the EU. Every month 7,000 illegal migrants cross the border between Turkey and Greece, and if we do not support Greece, that becomes our problem in the future. On the issue of our borders, will the Prime Minister confirm that we will have 100% exit checks by the end of March?

[The Prime Minister]

On the second point first, I am confident that our border exit checks will be in place by the end of March. That will transform the situation that this Government inherited, where fewer than 40% of people were counted in and out. That will be totally transformed in the future. On what the Greeks, the Italians and others do to man the external frontiers of Europe, it is vital work and we should support them, as we do through Frontex and so on, but we need to make sure that every country lives up to its obligations when people arrive in that country. It is remarkable that when one looks at the percentage of asylum claims within Europe that are still being heard in Germany, France or Britain—not the first points of entry—compared to the numbers being heard in Italy, Greece and Spain, there is still a marked contrast.

Murder of Lee Rigby

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I say to my right hon. and learned Friend, for whom I have great respect, that this is under permanent review. This is a discussion that can be had at any time if there are particular pressures. In the spending review in 2013 we put up spending on the intelligence agencies by 3.4%, at a time when other Departments were, on average, being cut by 2.77% in real terms, on top of the 19% average departmental reduction over the previous four years. They have had a much more generous spending settlement and quite rightly so.

There is also the issue—we discussed this in the National Security Council—of how much to spend on counter-intelligence and how much to spend on counter-terrorism. The argument is often made that it is time to reduce the spend on counter-terrorism. My own view is that that is not the case and that the pressures on counter-terrorism are still very great. As the Home Secretary said yesterday, the threat is greater than for many years, so we need to keep the focus on that part of the work.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I join the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition in commending the report by the Intelligence and Security Committee and in welcoming the proposals that both he and the Home Secretary have made over the last few days, which I hope will be subject to proper parliamentary scrutiny.

On the issue of returning British citizens, the Prime Minister will know that tomorrow marks the fourth anniversary of Adebolajo’s return from Kenya. The Kenyans were very clear that it was the British Government, or their associated agencies, who asked for the return of Adebolajo to the UK. That mirrored the return of Mohammed Ahmed Mohammed from Somalia. Is the Prime Minister now telling the House that from now on, when a British citizen commits an offence in another country, we will not seek their return until the criminal processes are completed?

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 17th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

There was a discussion about energy, and it is notable now that America starts these interventions by explaining that it is the world’s largest producer of oil and gas. My right hon. Friend makes an important point though: we should not be left out in the shale gas revolution. It has helped American competitiveness and energy prices, and I want to ensure that we do everything in the UK to take advantage of it too.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The summit marked the first face-to-face meeting between the Prime Minister and Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi. The right hon. Gentleman has said previously that trade between our two countries has barely scratched the surface of what is possible. Did he discuss specific measures for increasing trade, and did he persuade Mr Modi to visit the UK?

[The Prime Minister]

I had a very good meeting with Prime Minister Modi, who got the conference off to a good start by agreeing to lift India’s block to the Bali trade facilitation agreement, which is vital to helping drive global growth. On the British-India relationship, Britain is, I think, the second-largest inward investor in India, but the right hon. Gentleman is right that more could be done on trade. We discussed the need for the EU-India free-trade agreement to get going again and for structural reform in India to help open up her economy and lead to higher growth rates, and I am clear that Prime Minister Modi is a man with a clear vision for doing economically for his country what he succeeded in doing for Gujarat.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 5th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in praising all those who have been involved in this extraordinary project, which has I think brought forward from the British public a huge amount of reverence for those who have given their lives and served our country. The numbers going to see this display have been truly extraordinary. It is worth remembering that out of this display a lot of good will come, because, as I understand it, the poppies are being auctioned to raise a lot of money for military and veterans charities that will be there to do good in many years to come. It is an extraordinary display and one that the country can be very proud of.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Q13. In the past 12 months, it is estimated that 24,000 people have died from diabetes-related complications. Next Friday is world diabetes day. As one of the 3.2 million diabetics, may I urge the Prime Minister to do all he can to raise awareness on this issue, in particular to introduce measures that will reduce the amount of sugar in our food and drink? We can prevent the onset of type 2 diabetes and we can save lives.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise the importance of this issue. The consequences of diabetes, in terms of appalling things such as leg amputations, cost the NHS literally billions of pounds a year. If we can get better at preventing diabetes, and then testing and better at helping diabetics themselves, we can make huge savings while improving people’s quality of life.

I gather the right hon. Gentleman also wants me to try to ban sugar and fizzy drinks in No. 10 Downing street for 24 hours. I will try to negotiate that with my children. He also, as I understand it, wants me to light my home blue. That is something I am all in favour of—keeping it that way for some time to come.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 27th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have followed my hon. Friend’s arguments about the “notwithstanding” clause very closely over many years. I believe that the right approach is to have a renegotiation in order to deliver the things where we want to see change. We want change in terms of getting out of ever closer union, safeguards for the single market, and action on immigration, so the right approach is to conduct that renegotiation.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I welcome what the Prime Minister has said about the Defence Secretary’s statement, because it did cause a great deal of offence? At the summit, did the Prime Minister have a chance to discuss with President Hollande the President’s suggestion of a reception centre in Calais, which is opposed by the mayor of Calais, who will be giving evidence to the Home Affairs Committee tomorrow? Does he agree that the issue is also illegal migration, and that countries such as Greece and Italy must do their bit to stop people entering illegally in that area?

[The Prime Minister]

I look forward to the mayor of Calais appearing in front of the right hon. Gentleman’s Select Committee. It is very important that they are having those discussions. We are working with the French at every level to make sure we do not go back to the bad old days of Sangatte, but instead improve security around Calais. That is why the NATO fence is being erected even as we speak and why those conversations continue. I look forward to seeing how the Committee gets on tomorrow.

NATO Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 8th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I shall certainly look at the article my hon. Friend mentions. It is sometimes hard to keep up with all the contributions and advice that retired military figures are given to offer, but I do my best. The point my hon. Friend makes is absolutely right: were there to be a military element to the strategy, it would work only if it was in conjunction with all the other parts of the strategy. As I put it, we cannot intervene over the heads of local people and leave them to pick up the pieces; it has to be part of a strategy and a plan.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

As the Prime Minister knows, secure borders are essential in the fight against terrorism. During his discussions with President Hollande, was the crisis in Calais mentioned, given the French Government’s criticism concerning British Ministers’ inaction in dealing with our juxtaposed borders? Will the Prime Minister ask the Home Secretary to visit France at the earliest opportunity to engage in meaningful discussions to end this crisis, including giving the French the fence that we used at the Cardiff summit?

[The Prime Minister]

The offer of the use of the fence is there, and it was a very effective piece of equipment. These discussions are taking place at every level. I do not think it is fair to say that Britain has been unengaged in this. The juxtaposed border controls have been a success, but we need to work very closely together to make sure that the appalling scenes that we have seen are not repeated.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with what my hon. Friend says about the importance of getting nations that have not previously co-operated to co-operate with each other. I agree that we should get them to step up to the plate and do more to deal with the problems in their own area. However, as the former Labour Cabinet Minister, the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden), has just said, there are also times when we have to look to our responsibilities, and we should do that at the same time.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I welcome the Prime Minister’s decision to place the Channel programme on a statutory footing, which is a long-standing recommendation of the Home Affairs Committee? He is right to focus on the obligation to return. The obligation to return resulted in Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed coming back from Somalia—he is now, of course, at large—and in Michael Adebolajo being brought back from Kenya, with tragic consequences. The details may therefore have to be worked out, but the principle of looking at this is extremely important. May I urge the Prime Minister to please make sure that there is engagement with the community itself on domestic terrorism—not just the mosques and organisations, but a direct approach to the communities?

[The Prime Minister]

I very much agree with both points made by the right hon. Gentleman. It has been very noticeable in recent days how many in the British Muslim communities have come forward to condemn ISIL in incredibly strong terms, and that is hugely welcome. I also take the point about the Home Affairs Committee recommendation about the Channel programme that we are putting in place.

Ukraine (Flight MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. I think the only thing that will influence Russia’s strategic thinking about Ukraine is a sense that the rest of the world is actually going to team up and put in place sanctions that will damage Russia’s economy. As I said, in the end Russia needs Europe and America more than America and Europe need Russia, and we need to make the balance in that relationship show in order to change Russia’s thinking. It is not acceptable to destabilise Ukraine and instead the Russians should be seeking a civilised relationship with Ukraine. That is what we have to make them think about, and it is going to take tough action.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I, too, commend the Prime Minister for the efforts he has made over the weekend? May I also urge him to see the relatives of the British victims as quickly as possible, as they must be not only grief stricken but totally bewildered about what is happening? The key thing is not to leave Ukraine on its own. Are we prepared to share any intelligence information with the Ukrainian Government to help them with this terrible threat to their security?

[The Prime Minister]

First, I agree with what the right hon. Gentleman says about the victims, and I certainly am available to have a meeting with their families and talk to them about all the concerns they have. Immediately, the concerns are the consular issues that need to be dealt with, and the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mark Simmonds), is doing that.

The right hon. Gentleman’s other question was about sharing intelligence, and we have already done that with the Ukrainian Government. Lots of countries have information about what happened. Russia, specifically, will have a lot of information about what happened. As I said to Putin on the telephone last night, he should make that information available, in the same way as the Americans and others have made that information available. He could probably put beyond doubt, if he wanted to, what actually happened over the skies of eastern Ukraine, and I urge him to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 9th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. As he knows, responsibility for transport for education and training rests with local authorities. Clearly, this local authority, now controlled by Labour, has made this decision. Of course we have introduced the £180 million bursary fund to support the most disadvantaged young people and perhaps that is something that his council and these families could make the most of. I certainly join him in agreeing that this is another example of the fact that Labour costs us more.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Q8. It is estimated that each day 179 British girls are at risk of being subjected to female genital mutilation, joining a total of 170,000 in the United Kingdom who have been cut. Next week, the Prime Minister hosts a summit on this issue. Does he agree that FGM is not cultural; it is criminal. It is not tribal; it is torture. Will he please read the report of the Select Committee, which is published next Thursday, and implement it in full so that we can eradicate this horrendous abuse from our country?

[The Prime Minister]

I commend the right hon. Gentleman on the work that the Home Affairs Committee has done on that issue. He is absolutely right that this is a brutal and appalling practice that should have no place in the world, and certainly no place here in Britain and it is appalling that people living in our country are being subjected to it. I will study the report closely. The whole aim of the conference, which I am keen on us holding, is to ensure that the two practices of early forced marriage and female genital mutilation are wiped out from our planet.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s further support for enlargement of the EU, with the announcement that Albania has become the sixth candidate country to join. Does he agree it is important that we work with these countries now on the huge challenges facing them, rather than wait until the last minute, just before they become full members?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the enlargement process has been successful in driving the development and improving the democracy and governance of many of these countries. I further agree with him about engaging with them now, because a country like Albania has huge challenges in terms of tackling corruption, embedding its democracy and developing its economy. In that context it is very important that when new countries get to join—Albania is a long way from that process—there will have to be a totally new approach to transitional controls.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 7th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A key part of the long-term plan is to rebalance our economy away from purely the south-east and also towards manufacturing exports and investment. I know that he has been playing his part by running a festival for manufacturing and engineering in Stroud. This is really important, because one of the things we have to do is inspire a new generation to think of these careers and think of the subjects they should be studying in school and at university to open up these careers for them.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Last Thursday, the European Union ban on the import of Indian mangos took effect. As a result, hundreds of businesses in Leicester and throughout the UK will suffer millions of pounds of losses. There was no consultation with this House and no vote by British Ministers. Next week, the Prime Minister will have his first conversation with the new Indian Prime Minister. Will he do his best to reverse this ban so that we can keep our special relationship with India, which his predecessors and he have worked so hard to maintain, and have our delicious mangos once again?

[The Prime Minister]

I know how much the right hon. Gentleman cares about this issue, so much so that he delivered a tray of mangos to No. 10 Downing street—missing the deadline, I might add, so that they could safely be consumed by the people inside. I am very grateful for that.

This is a very serious issue. The European Commission has to consider it on the basis of the science and the evidence. There are concerns about cross-contamination of British crops and interests, so we have to make sure that that is got right. I understand how strongly the right hon. Gentleman and the Indian community in this country feel. Indeed, I look forward to discussing the issue with the new Indian Prime Minister.

European Council and Nuclear Security Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The important thing about using referendums in democratic states is to make sure that they are done on a legal, fair and constitutional basis. That is why I think the Scottish referendum is probably the best comparator to what is happening in Crimea, because there were proper discussions and negotiations between the Scottish Government and the Westminster Government and a proper agreement was put in place to have a fair, decisive and legal referendum. The referendum in Crimea was put together in a few weeks, at a time when there were troops all over Crimea and no proper electoral registration, and there was a complete mess as a result.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I warmly welcome the leadership role that the Prime Minister and our Government are playing in respect of Sri Lanka. It will be strongly welcomed by the thousands of Tamils settled in our country. The Prime Minister has himself travelled to Sri Lanka and heard the personal testimony of those who have been affected by the atrocities. The problem is that President Rajapaksa and his Government do not keep their word. If this resolution goes through and they do not co-operate, what will be the next step?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks. I will never forget going to northern Sri Lanka and Jaffna and hearing some of that testimony for myself. The point is that we want to see proper reconciliation and a secure future for this extraordinary country, which could be a massive success story if it properly reconciles its past. The problem is that its Government are not doing enough to make that happen, and that is why the United Nations vote is so important. If the vote is positive, the human rights commissioner, Navi Pillay, can get on with setting up a proper inquiry. Far from hindering reconciliation in Sri Lanka, I think that will actually help.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 10th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We have not received any information that would lead us to think that. If we are going to take steps—diplomatically, politically and, potentially, economically—we should take them because it is the right thing to do. We should recognise that there may be consequences from some of those things. There could be consequences for the City of London and some European defence industries, or for energy or other interests around Europe. However, we should proceed knowing that what we are doing is sensible, legitimate, proportionate, consistent and right.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to sign the association agreement before the elections on 25 March. A poll of Ukrainians last year showed that the vast majority want to be members of the EU. Were there any discussions about Ukraine joining the EU as a candidate country, because that could provide focus for the Ukrainians at this time of instability?

[The Prime Minister]

I have great respect for the right hon. Gentleman. There were no discussions on Ukraine’s long-term aims to join the EU. The discussion was about what progress we could make on the association agreement. It was an important debate, because European colleagues felt strongly that we could not indicate that we would have been happy to sign an association agreement with the previous President but hold back from signing one with the current Administration. We therefore came forward with the idea of signing the political part of the association agreement, lowering European tariffs as a unilateral gesture to help the Ukrainian economy, and pressing ahead with the rest of the agreement in a proper time frame.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 15 January.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in the House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Keith Vaz]

Launched last week, Action on Sugar aims to reduce the sugar content of food and drinks by up to 30% because of the twin epidemics of obesity and type 2 diabetes. Voluntary arrangements with manufacturers, though well intentioned, have not worked. Will the Prime Minister meet a delegation of health experts to discuss this issue, and may we enlist his support in the war on sugar by asking him to give up sugar and sugary drinks for one day this week?

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman’s last proposal will have the strong support of Mrs Cameron, so I will take it up if I possibly can. I commend him for raising this matter and for speaking out on the issues of diabetes and obesity with such consistency, because they are major health concerns for our country. We are taking them very seriously, and we are rolling out the NHS health check programme to identify all those aged between 40 and 74 who are at risk of diabetes. Childhood obesity rates are falling, but more needs to be done. I am happy to facilitate discussions between the right hon. Gentleman and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health. We take this issue very seriously, and we think that the responsibility deal has achieved great things, but there is more to be done.

Commonwealth Meeting and the Philippines

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. The Commonwealth brings quite different and disparate countries together—some of the largest on earth, such as India, but also some of the smallest and most fragile island states in the world. It is a forum in which we can discuss issues, share values and perspectives, but also, yes, talk about business and trade, which is why there is a business angle to the events in which we took part. We should use all those forums to push for our agenda of free trade and trade facilitation, and there is an important meeting coming up in Bali very soon.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s third visit to India, and his first to Calcutta. In Jaffna, he saw the devastation and grief inflicted on the Tamil people by President Rajapaksa. Is he aware that we continue to deport Tamil people from this country to Sri Lanka, where they are tortured? Will he speak to the Home Secretary about updating the advice given on the Home Office website so that we can protect those people, who are genuinely seeking asylum in our country?

[The Prime Minister]

The asylum system should work on the basis of the best and latest information about whether someone genuinely faces a risk of torture and persecution if they return. Of course, I shone a light on some of the human rights abuses that are taking place, but it is also right to point out that in Sri Lanka today warfare, civil war, terrorism and violence of that kind are not taking place, so we should be clear and welcome that.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he said about my third visit to India and my first to Calcutta. This is part of building the special relationship that I believe should exist between Britain and India, and which spans diplomacy, politics, trade and other international relations.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 28th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The Italians have been doing very good work to up their naval patrols in a particular operation to try to assist with the problem. They have not asked us for any assistance, but relations between Britain and Italy are extremely good. On Libya, Britain’s focus is more on helping on the land borders that have been particularly porous and dangerous in recent years. Obviously, we are also working with Libya to try to increase its level of domestic security, because one key to preventing such migratory flows is ensuring that countries have Governments who work.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Further to the question from the hon. and learned Member for Harborough (Sir Edward Garnier), the Italians have been doing a good job but, even last weekend, 800 migrants were prevented from going to Lampedusa by the Italian authorities. Although support for Frontex and agreements on an EU basis with origin countries are useful, it might be necessary for Britain to have bilateral arrangements with some origin countries. Does the Prime Minister support that?

[The Prime Minister]

I always listen carefully to the right hon. Gentleman on such issues—his Home Affairs Committee does such good work on them. My point is that Britain already does over and above our share of taking people who are fleeing torture and persecution, or people who are fleeing for a better life but who claim asylum. We share a very big part of the burden and I do not want to do things that add to it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely share my hon. Friend’s concern about the importance of ambulance response times. I think that we then have to task the NHS with how best it meets those targets, because what matters most of all is swift attendance for people who need it. I am very happy to arrange a meeting with her and Health Ministers to look at this. I know that the West Midlands ambulance service is looking at ways of improving its service, and clearly she will encourage it to do just that.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister will know that yesterday the Independent Police Complaints Commission published a damning report on an event involving the former Government Chief Whip. The report goes to the heart of the integrity and ethics of the police. Does he agree with the Home Secretary, who said in evidence to the Home Affairs Committee yesterday that it would be right for the relevant chief constables to apologise to the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) and wrong if the relevant officers did not face disciplinary proceedings?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree 100% with what the Home Secretary said yesterday. We should be clear about what we are discussing here. The whole case of what happened outside No. 10 Downing street is with the Crown Prosecution Service and we have to leave it on one side until it makes its decision. What is being discussed here is the fact that my right hon. Friend the former Chief Whip had a meeting with Police Federation officers in his constituency where he gave a full account of what had happened. They left that meeting and claimed that he had given them no account at all. Fortunately this meeting was recorded and so he has been able to prove that what he said was true and what the police officers said was untrue. That is why the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) is absolutely right: my right hon. Friend is owed an apology. The conduct of these officers was not acceptable. These things should be properly investigated, as the Home Secretary has said. Crucially, it is absolutely right for the right hon. Gentleman’s Committee to discuss this with the chief constables concerned and try to get to the bottom of why better redress has not been given.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 9th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. and learned Friend makes a good point. There are obviously international agreements made about not selling arms to Syria, but tragically the regime has been able to get hold of weapons, not least from the Russians and the Iranians, and that is one of the problems we face today.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the announcement of additional humanitarian aid for the Syrian refugees. Was there any discussion at the G20 about the situation in Yemen? Since the Prime Minister appeared at the Dispatch Box to discuss Syria, there has been an attempt to assassinate the Prime Minister of Yemen. I know that the right hon. Gentleman and Ministers have done a great deal of work to have face time with the Yemeni authorities. We must not allow Yemen to slide into civil war because our focus is on Syria.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes important points about a country that has deep problems, and it is in our interests that it resolves them and that we secure a stable Yemen. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will be chairing the Friends of Yemen group in New York in a couple of weeks’ time. Britain continues to engage diplomatically, and in terms of humanitarian aid and advice, with the Yemeni Government.

Syria and the Use of Chemical Weapons

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Thursday 29th August 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will give way a bit more in a minute, but I want to make some further progress and leave plenty of time for Back-Bench speeches.

In this section of my speech, I have tried to address the questions that people have. Let me take the next one: whether we would be in danger of undermining our ambitions for a political solution in Syria. There is not some choice between, on the one hand, acting to prevent chemical weapons being used against the Syrian people and, on the other, continuing to push for a long-term political solution. We need to do both. We remain absolutely committed to using diplomacy to end this war with a political solution.

Let me make this point. For as long as Assad is able to defy international will and get away with chemical attacks on his people, I believe that he will feel little if any pressure to come to the negotiating table. He is happy to go on killing and maiming his own people as part of his strategy for winning that brutal civil war. Far from undermining the political process, a strong response over the use of chemical weapons could in my view strengthen it.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

One of the consequences of intervening will be the effect that it will have on other countries in the region, and my particular concern—as the Prime Minister knows—is Yemen, the most unstable country in the area. Has he looked at the possible consequences of intervention and the effect that it will have on the stability of a country such as Yemen?

[The Prime Minister]

I have taken advice from all the experts about all the potential impacts on the region, which in fact is the next question in my list of questions that need to be answered. The region has already been profoundly endangered by the conflict in Syria. Lebanon is facing sectarian tensions as refugees pile across the border. Jordan is coping with a massive influx of refugees. Our NATO ally Turkey has suffered terrorist attacks and shelling from across the border. Standing by as a new chemical weapons threat emerges in Syria will not alleviate those challenges; it will deepen them. That is why the Arab League has been so clear in condemning the action, in attributing it precisely to President Assad and in calling for international action. This is a major difference from past crises in the middle east, and a region long beset by conflict and aggression needs above all clear international laws and people and countries who are prepared to stand up for them.

Afghanistan and EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend asks an important question, and the answer to it is that the Afghan President and Government are absolutely clear that any discussions need to proceed on the basis of the Afghan constitution, which has safeguards on those and other issues. It is important to note that whereas in 2001 there were almost no girls in school in Helmand, there are now over 30,000.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I was pleased to hear from the Prime Minister, in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes), that he is still a passionate champion of enlargement, but does he agree that it is not sufficient just to welcome countries like Croatia into the EU, as we need to support them to ensure they are of benefit to the EU, rather than a burden?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree: we should support Croatia, and we have agreed to the use of the European budget to make sure Croatia gets its receipts from the EU as well as making its payments into the EU. The strength of widening the EU is not only that when those countries come in they become even greater trading partners and investment partners for Britain, but that as part of the process of preparing to join they have to put their own houses in order to tackle corruption, improve the rule of law and so forth. We have seen that in Croatia, we are seeing it in Serbia, and it is very welcome.

G8

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I make two points to my hon. Friend. First, Iran has never accepted the premises of Geneva I, so it has not even crossed the threshold into considering what a transition would look like. Secondly, when we are trying to put together a group of individuals to negotiate at a peace conference, the most important thing is that there are a limited number of people from the regime and a limited number of people from the opposition who represent the people of Syria. We must focus on that more than on anything else.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I ask the Prime Minister about the fourth T in his tieless summit: the issue of counter-terrorism? I welcome what he said about the agreement on ransom moneys. However, we must consider not only the discussions of the leaders, but the follow-up. What additional resources or powers will he give the Roma-Lyon group that traditionally follows up on the counter-terrorism agenda from G8 summits? In the end, the most important part of the summit meeting is what happens afterwards. The Prime Minister has seven months as president. Will he ensure that there is an effective structure?

[The Prime Minister]

The communiqué pays tribute to the Roma-Lyon group and says that it must have what is necessary to take action so that we can co-ordinate better after dreadful events such as that at in Amenas. In the discussion at the G8, we tried to agree on the drivers of terrorism and extremism across north Africa, and on what more the countries around the table could do so that we do not duplicate our efforts, but divide up what needs to be done. For instance, Britain could do more to help Nigeria, France could do more to stabilise Mali and the United States could work with key partners in the region. We tasked our national security advisers with continuing to work out how to adjudicate who should do more of what. It was encouraging that President Putin agreed to take up that work when he chairs the G8 next year.

EU Council and Woolwich

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 3rd June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for asking that question. What we have done in the European Union is, I believe, unblock what was previously blocked when a small number of countries were blocking the exchange of technical tax information between countries. Now that that is unblocked, I think there is plenty of opportunity for the body that she talks about and others to do the work necessary to make sure that proper taxes are paid.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the establishment of the taskforce and the Prime Minister’s commitment this afternoon to making its membership wider than just members of the Cabinet. Does he agree that internet service providers and search engines such as Google are far too laid back about removing extremist content? It is still possible this afternoon to go on to YouTube and see the hateful and inflammatory preachings of Anwar al-Awlaki. A year ago, the Select Committee recommended the establishment of a code of conduct; will the Prime Minister please look at this proposal again, so that the providers and the search engines take effective action?

[The Prime Minister]

I have great respect for the right hon. Gentleman and for the work of his Select Committee. The point he makes is a good one. I think we should always ask companies and organisations to behave with a sense of responsibility. Of course there are concerns about freedom and free speech, but there are also issues of proper governance and responsibility, which these companies should also think about. I will look very carefully at the code of conduct that he mentions and see what more can be done.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 8th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)]

rose—

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

rose—

[The Prime Minister]

I will give way to both right hon. Gentlemen in a minute. Let me just make one point. The Bill goes across government, because for the first time we will look to ensure that everyone’s immigration status is checked before they get access to a private rented home; for the first time, we will make sure that anyone not eligible for free health care foots the bill, either themselves or through their Government; and for the first time, foreign nationals who commit serious crimes will be deported, wherever possible, and will then have to appeal from their home country. That will be the effect of the Bill.

[The Prime Minister]

At last we have had a concrete policy from the Labour party, but I am afraid to say that it is one with which I completely disagree. I have great respect for the right hon. Gentleman, but is it not extraordinary that the previous Government spent so much time and effort on a compulsory identity card that no one wanted while overseeing a massive uncontrolled rise in immigration? What we have done is to cut migration by a third and we have not introduced ID cards. That is a far better approach.

[Keith Vaz]

I welcome the abolition of the UK Border Agency. The Prime Minister mentioned foreign national ex-offenders. He will know that the latest figures reveal that 4,000 are living in the community, and 65% have been there for two years. Will he examine whether it is possible to begin deportation proceedings at the time of sentence, rather than waiting halfway through the sentence when it will be too late?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right, and that is something that we discussed at the National Security Council as recently as last week. The situation with foreign national offenders is still completely unacceptable. There are very large numbers still here, from countries such as Nigeria and Jamaica that we have very good relations with, and we are going to ensure that we deal with the problem a lot faster. We have also looked at the idea that the right hon. Gentleman has come up with. Put simply, our immigration Bill will back aspiration and end the legacy of the previous Government that meant that people could come here and expect something for nothing.

Our determination to end the previous Government’s something-for-nothing culture is also the reason why we continue to pursue our welfare reforms. Every one of them is about making sure that work pays, but that is not the only thing that our welfare reforms have in common. The truth is that whatever welfare reform we have suggested, the Leader of the Opposition and the Labour party have opposed each and every single one. We said families should not be able to receive up to £100,000 in housing benefit. He said they should, and voted accordingly. We said no—[Interruption.] The hon. Lady says “rubbish”, but the Opposition voted against the limits on housing benefit. We said that no out-of-work household should be able to claim more than the average working family earns. The Leader of the Opposition said that they should be able to do that, and they voted against the welfare cap. We said benefits should not go up by more than 1% while workers’ wages are being cut. He said they should—and he wants our children shackled with more debt in order to pay for it.

Royal Charter on Press Conduct

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 18th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes. My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right: they will be made by the courts. The point of what we are doing is to create an incentive for publishers to be part of the self-regulatory system, because, other than in exceptional circumstances, they will not be subject to exceptional costs or damages if they are within the regulatory system—that is important.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I am most grateful to the Prime Minister. He mentioned the victims in his opening remarks. He will know that 97 people have been arrested and 24 people charged as a result of the phone hacking issue. Given that hundreds of potential victims still have not been interviewed by the police, does he now accept that it is unlikely that part two of the Leveson inquiry, which he announced on 13 July 2011, will take place until after the next general election?

[The Prime Minister]

It is difficult to answer the right hon. Gentleman’s question, because of course it depends on the timing of the police investigations. What I am clear about is that the police must have the proper resources to carry out their work, which they do. On that basis, the second part of Lord Leveson’s investigation should indeed go ahead.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I very much welcome the commitment by the Liberal Democrats in the European Parliament to support this budget. That is two down—the Conservatives are up for it and the Liberals are up for it—so what about Labour? What are you going to do when all those other socialists in Europe tell you that this is a terrible deal and that we should not be cutting spending? When are we going to see some leadership from the Labour party?

On the issue of Bulgaria, the right hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the European arrest warrant. I would also make the point that it is important that we do have structural and cohesion funds that help countries recovering from decades of communism to raise their living standards. We should be proud of the fact that we do support a European Union in that way.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

What discussions took place about the justice and home affairs agenda? As the Prime Minister knows, last year 100,000 people crossed illegally from Turkey into Greece. Does he not think that support for Frontex and its ability to deploy the RABITs—Rapid Border Intervention Teams—is essential to protecting the border? Is that going to be preserved?

[The Prime Minister]

There was not a specific discussion about Frontex, but under the so-called heading 3 the home affairs heading, spending is going up from €12.4 billion to €15.7 billion. That is an area where there are new responsibilities, not least because of the new member states, which is why the spending under that heading is going up.

Algeria

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 21st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We do not want a National Security Council to be a sort of talking shop. It has behind it the whole of the national security apparatus of Whitehall, now all based in the Cabinet Office and very ably headed by my national security adviser, Sir Kim Darroch. He is able to drive the will of the committee and the decisions it takes right across Whitehall. That is the point of it. We are still learning how best to operate the system, but I think it has been a good innovation.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right to focus on north Africa, but he will know that al-Qaeda has been operating in countries such as the Yemen for years. As a result, Yemen has been destabilised, and the Prime Minister knows that, because he has put a lot of face time into helping the Government of Yemen. As he chairs the G8, will he consider inviting the leaders of those countries that are affected by al-Qaeda to attend the summit, as they did in Georgia in 2004, so that we can have a co-ordinated approach that involves them as well?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an interesting suggestion. I will take it away and think about it. He is absolutely right to say that Yemen has been one of the countries most troubled by terrorism. If we look at the scale of the threat to the UK directly, we find that what has been happening in Yemen and al-Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula have posed a great threat to the UK—greater than from al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. We should continue our focus on Yemen, which very much fits what I have said. We help Yemen militarily with counter-terrorism advice and support, we have an aid programme and a big diplomatic programme in Yemen, and we act with other allies to assist Yemen in its fight with the terrorists. I think that the Yemeni authorities have been making good progress on that front.

Algeria

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Friday 18th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. We have to do everything we can with our partners, through security and intelligence co-operation, to provide as little space as possible for terrorist organisations, whether in the banking system or in the availability of safe havens. That is what is so concerning about what has happened in west Africa, where parts of Mali have become a safe haven for these terrorists. He is absolutely right in what he says.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Further to the question from the hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry), the fight against international terrorism cannot be conducted by one country alone; it has to be co-ordinated. Given that al-Qaeda in the Maghreb also operates in Morocco and Tunisia, what assistance can we give to those countries by way of sharing information, or perhaps giving them counter-terrorism assistance, so that we can contain this issue, rather than let it spread to other countries in north Africa?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. We have good relations with countries such as Tunisia and Morocco at a political and diplomatic level. There are obviously opportunities for intelligence sharing, and I would argue that we need to add to that a degree of military-to-military talks and co-operation, so that when these regrettable events take place there is a high level of trust and an ability to work together. Obviously, there are some countries in the region with which we have very long, historical relations—Nigeria, for instance, with which we have a very thick relationship politically, diplomatically and militarily, and with counter-terrorism and all the rest of it. I think we need to go through all our contacts and work out how best to strengthen them in each case.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The most important thing is to make sure that people are getting a good deal on energy prices, which is why we are going to be legislating to make companies put people on the lowest available tariffs. That is something the Government are doing that will help all families.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Q7. As a diabetic, may I welcome the fact that last year the Prime Minister lit up No. 10 for the first time on world diabetes day? One third of all primary school leavers are either obese or overweight, yet they still consume cans of Coke and Pepsi that contain up to eight teaspoons of sugar. What steps is he proposing to take to engage manufacturers in a war against sugar? If we do not act now, the next generation will be overwhelmed by a diabetes epidemic?

Leveson Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We had to listen to allegation after allegation, conspiracy after conspiracy, smear after smear. Each one is put to bed comprehensively by the report.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the report and I accept all its conclusions. May I also welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to part 2 of the inquiry? I accept that we have to wait for the outcome of the criminal investigations, but the operations being conducted by the Metropolitan police, including Operation Weeting, could take up to three years to conclude. Will he give a commitment today to give them whatever resources they need to conclude the matter once and for all?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right. One of the things that the victims have been most concerned about is that part 2 of the investigation should go ahead—because of the concerns about that first police investigation and about improper relationships between journalists and police officers. It is right that it should go ahead, and that is fully our intention.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with my hon. Friend about the number of European Councils. That is undeniable; there has been a huge quantity.

I agree with my hon. Friend that there is an opportunity for a change in Britain’s relationship with the European Union. That is why I have talked about a new settlement and fresh consent for that settlement. Where I think I disagree with him is that we need to show some patience while the eurozone sorts itself out, and as the eurozone integrates I think there will be opportunities for that. As for his comments about the Germans, I hope that he is a regular reader of Der Spiegel online, because after the Council it said:

“Danke Grossbritannien…you’ve given hope to many people suffering under the terror of EU bureaucracy”.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

A hundred thousand Syrian refugees have entered Turkey in the past year and 16,000 have applied for asylum in the EU, having crossed the border between Greece and Turkey. No matter what the Prime Minister’s negotiation position is in respect of the overall budget, will he give an assurance that he will protect the budget for Frontex, which protects the external limits of the EU, which must be in Britain’s best interests?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Frontex does good work and we have supported its budget, but like any Government, what we are asking the European Commission and European Council to do is attempt to do more for less. They have to look across each budget area, work out where the pressures are and, obviously, direct resources in that way, but they also have to try to find savings elsewhere, as every Department of Government has had to do.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The point about the European budget is that we need to maximise our negotiation leverage on that specific issue, as we are part of this union and we want it to have a sustainable budget. As I wrote in the letter of 18 December 2010,

“payment appropriations should increase, at most, by no more than inflation over the next financial perspectives”—[Interruption.]

The shadow Chancellor asks from a sedentary position what our leverage is, and it is very simple. The decision must be agreed by unanimity. Tony Blair, when he sat in that seat, gave up our rebate without any need, but we will not do that.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Were there any discussions, either at the summit or in the margins, about the acute immigration crisis facing Greece? As the Prime Minister knows, last year 100,000 illegal migrants crossed from Turkey to Greece. This year, 100,000 Syrians have moved into Turkey. Would the Prime Minister be prepared to contribute to additional rapid border intervention team—RABIT—forces on the border between Greece and Turkey to try to ease that crisis?

[The Prime Minister]

The Greek Prime Minister, attending his first European Council, raised that issue, which is clearly putting pressure on Greece. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the British Government’s position is that we should continue to support the organisations that deal with these issues, such as Frontex. If there is pressure for more resources, we can consider that. We should always bear in mind, however, that when it comes to migration into Europe it is the countries of the north, including Britain, that face the greatest pressure from asylum claims.

Hillsborough

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right in what he says. I think that this will be one of the things that come out of the report. It has been said before, and it has been known before, that there were problems with the ground, but the full extent of the fact that previous events had had similar problems and that there were quite detailed reports about the failings at the ground will be a very important part of the report. As he says, we do need people to whistleblow and to point these things out.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I also welcome the content and the tone of the Prime Minister’s statement. If, having studied the papers, either he or the Home Secretary finds that there is a case to be made for referring the conduct of the police to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, will he not hesitate to do so?

[The Prime Minister]

I would say to the right hon. Gentleman that people need to study the evidence in the report. The panel had access to all the documentation from the South Yorkshire police that it wanted. It is very important that politicians play their proper role in these things and the independent authorities play their proper role. There will be a lot of evidence that people want to look at before reaching those decisions.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The point that I make to my hon. Friend, whom I respect hugely for his views, is that what we have in the single market is not just a free trade area, but a say in the rules about how that free trade area works. It does seem to me that absolutely central to Britain’s case for remaining in the European Union are those two key points. I think that there is a difference between a single market with rules and simply a free trade agreement. That is what I think we should continue to pursue.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I welcome the continued support that has been given to Greece? It is not just a case of Greece repaying its debts; it is about the responsibilities that it has to the rest of the EU. Last year, as the Prime Minister knows, 100,000 people illegally entered Greece through Turkey. Will we ensure that those resources are directed towards protecting the borders of the EU?

[The Prime Minister]

I know that the right hon. Gentleman has great expertise in this area. It seems to me important that we support organisations such as Frontex, and the means by which those countries can protect their borders, but in all these European negotiations we always have to be careful about the language of burden sharing, because of course when we look at where people actually end up, in terms of asylum claims, it is often countries such as Britain, Sweden, and Denmark that bear a very large share of the burden, and we always have to be alert to that argument.

G8 and NATO Summits

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We are, of course, committed to aid and development, and to expanding the new alliance for food security and nutrition programme that Barack Obama launched. Microfinance is important because it not only helps to grow small businesses, but it empowers women, which can make an enormous difference to the success of development.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Was there any discussion about the situation in Yemen? The Prime Minister will know that on Monday a bomb exploded in the middle of the unity day celebrations, killing 96, and this morning aid agencies have said that half the population is going to starve to death. I appreciate what the Prime Minister and his Government—and successive Governments—have done. However, while the Prime Minister has made Burma a priority for his chairmanship of the G8—I also acknowledge your role, Mr Speaker, in championing the cause of Burma—can he not also find a little space for Yemen, because a stable Yemen is in our interests? If we do not support that country, al-Qaeda will take it over and it will bleed to death.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman knows that I absolutely agree with him on this. At the G8 summit, I talked about the next G8 and said it was very important that we address the security and development priorities of the future. I think both Yemen and Somalia fall squarely into that bracket. The recent hideous bomb attack and loss of life in Yemen was extremely distressing. We must focus a huge amount of effort on the country. A development effort is going in: I think the Department for International Development will today announce an investment of £26 million in that country. We must also give an enormous amount of national security assistance to the country, and I discussed that in my bilateral with President Obama.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly support what my hon. Friend says. This law was long overdue. It is very important that home owners have proper protection from people, in effect, stealing their property, which is what squatting is. It is a criminal act and it is now a criminal offence.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Q11. Last week, it was revealed that officials at the UK Border Agency received bonuses of £3.5 million. Given the horrendous queues at our airports, the fact that 100,000 files have now been archived by the UKBA, and the fact that in the past six months 185 people have absconded having been given limited leave to remain, does the Prime Minister agree that in future we should reward success, not failure?

[The Prime Minister]

I completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman. There is absolutely no place in the modern civil service for a presumption of good performance. I believe in paying people bonuses if they perform well and meet their targets, but if they do not perform well and do not meet their targets, they should not get a bonus.

In terms of Heathrow and our airports, it is vitally important that we continue to make progress. This is an urgent issue for Britain. It is vital for our trade and vital for inward investment that people have a decent experience when they arrive at our airports. A new control room is opening at Heathrow this month, there are an extra 80 staff for peak times at Heathrow, and an extra 480 people will come on stream during the Olympic period, but I am still not satisfied as to whether we need to do more, including this week and next week, to really get on top of this problem.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do agree with my hon. Friend about that. Perhaps we will come on to discuss what is difficult and contentious legislation on data communications; I know this will be debated and there will be draft clauses. The point I make to the House is that what we are trying to do here is not to look at the content of people’s telephone calls, but to update the necessary measures for finding out who called whom and when, because it is that information that has solved almost every serious crime and certainly almost every serious terrorist offence.

I say to people, let us of course look at the detail, let us of course consult, but I do not want to be the Prime Minister standing at this Dispatch Box saying “I could have done more to prevent terrorist acts, but we did not have the courage to take difficult steps”. Imagine, for a minute, what would have happened if, when mobile phones came along, the House had simply said “No, we will stick to data communications on fixed-line phones; we will not touch mobile phones”. If we had done that, there would be many, many unsolved cases in comparison with what we have experienced.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister give way?

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to give way to my right hon. Friend. [Interruption.]

[Keith Vaz]

I am most grateful to the Prime Minister for giving way, and I am glad that he has kept the focus on Yemen. In the context of what has happened this week, will he confirm that both London and Washington will be supporting the new Government of Yemen? The front line against terrorism is not our country, but Sana’a and Aden, and without that practical support we cannot defeat al-Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right, and we are supporting the new Government in Yemen. We are helping them with their transition, we are helping to build up the Yemeni security forces, and we are supporting the development of more effective state institutions. That is absolutely vital work. We will also remain focused on the challenges in Iran and Syria. These are the critical months during which the world must deal with the threat of a nuclear-armed Iran. While we take nothing off the table, we have specifically said to Israel, both publicly and privately, that the option of further pressure and further sanctions on the regime is the right way forward. We have led the imposition of an EU oil embargo, which many believed would not be possible, and we are ready to negotiate in good faith.

I know that everyone in the House is appalled by the violence that is taking place in Syria and frustrated that we cannot do more to stop it, but I believe that the Annan plan of getting more observers in to stop the killing is the right answer. Today there are just 60 observers in a country more than 70,000 square miles in size. We are working with our allies, including the Turks and the Arab League, to get hundreds more into that country to stop the bloodshed.

Informal European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right to raise the issue in this way. We have tended in the past in the European Union to sign up to Council conclusions or informal statements, like the one agreed late last night, that are full of good words about taking such steps but do not contain enough concrete dates. The difference last night is that dates have started to appear for when specific things should be done, whether it be completing EU free trade arrangements with other countries or completing deregulation or single market programmes. That is very welcome.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The position taken on Iran at the summit was clearly the right one. However, as the Prime Minister knows, there are 73,000 Iranians living in London. What provisions have been made to nominate a third country, so that British Iranians can go to visit Tehran, and their friends and relatives can come and visit here?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman asks an important question. Perhaps I can write to him about that. What I would say is that, in a move that may have surprised some people, the EU has been decisive—for instance, in creating the oil embargo when some members of the EU have been quite reliant on Iranian oil, which is a real step forward. However, on the issue of third countries and travel, perhaps I can write to the right hon. Gentleman.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Given the current economic crisis in Europe, does the Prime Minister believe that the Europe 2020 strategy still has a future as a successor to the Lisbon benchmarks, and is he confident that we will achieve those shared goals?

[The Prime Minister]

The short answer is that the 2020 strategy needs to have a future and we must encourage European Union countries to spend more time focusing on what really drives growth, which is completing the single market, rather than some of these initiatives on medium-term fiscal austerity and big transfers of sovereignty. I know that they are important—and particularly important for some in the EU—but real growth will be driven through the single market.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 7th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend asks a question with a broad historical sweep. We are suffering at the moment from a single currency that we are not a member of, but that has some serious structural faults. It is in our interests that those faults are resolved, and one way of helping to do that would be to have a greater pooling of fiscal sovereignty among the members of the single currency. I always felt that that was necessary and was going to happen, which is one reason why I never supported the single currency. However, I do not think that we can stick happily with the status quo when the single currency is having a chilling effect on our economy, through the crisis, and not seek some sort of resolution.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

A few years ago the President of Yemen was invited to the G20, but the country now has the world’s third highest rate of malnutrition. What additional help can Yemen be given as a result of the G20 meeting? Would the Prime Minister be happy for some of the IMF money he has just given to go to Yemen?

[The Prime Minister]

First, we have not yet given any IMF money. There was no agreement on how much should be given, exactly when it should be given or in what way. The world was saying that it stood ready to support the IMF. The IMF has supported countries like Yemen in the past and, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, we have put development aid into Yemen. The biggest challenge in Yemen is the lack of effective governance, and I think that what Bill Gates was talking about—proper systems for raising taxes and for transparency in Government revenues and in revenues from extractive industries and minerals—are the keys to helping such countries along their way.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me be clear with my hon. Friend. I think that fundamental changes are coming in Europe; they are clearly coming in the eurozone. That may lead to pressures, as we saw over the weekend, for treaty change. That will present opportunities for Britain and we should respond to those opportunities. The question for the House tonight is whether it is right to go off down the path of having a referendum that includes an in/out option, just when there are big opportunities as the eurozone and the EU are changing.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I join others in congratulating the Prime Minister on his stance on Libya, but remind him that there are other countries, such as Yemen, that need to be focused on. The Lisbon agenda set out the benchmarks for economic growth, which were replaced by the 2020 strategy. Is the Prime Minister confident that, despite the eurozone crisis, those targets will be achieved?

[The Prime Minister]

First, the right hon. Gentleman is right on Yemen. As he knows, the National Security Council is spending an increasing amount of time on examining how we can best help that country not only to achieve a transition to greater democracy and freedom, but to tackle the security concerns that we have about it. He is right that we have had the Lisbon process and the 2020 process. The problem is that although this agenda gets pushed forward, in too many cases the targets and measures are not met. After 16 or 17 months of going to Council meetings, I am seeing a change of heart in the European Commission, not least because everyone recognises that the priority in Europe is now growth. The Commission has to stop adding expensive regulations to business and start deregulating, which is exactly the agenda that we are putting forward.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Q8. Both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition are on record as supporting gender equality for future royal successions. Will the Prime Minister update the House on the consultation that he and the Deputy Prime Minister are having with other Commonwealth leaders on this issue? Does he agree that it is better that we resolve this matter before rather than after any future royal children are born?

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly believe that this issue should be sorted out—I am on the record as believing that, and I am sure that across the House there will be widespread support for it. In the consultation, I have written to the Heads of State and Prime Ministers of the other realms concerned, and we will have a meeting on the matter at the Commonwealth Heads of Government conference. This is not an easy issue to sort out. Many may have worries about starting a parliamentary or other legal process, but I am very clear that it is an issue that we ought to get sorted, and I would be delighted to play a part in doing that.

Libya

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady makes an important point, and I think one of the best ways to do that is to work with the non-governmental organisations that have particular expertise in that area. I repeat that this is not the same as Iraq, where basically an intervention knocked over a Government, and there was then a de-Ba’athification process and we had to try to put back in place what had gone. Here, we are trying to work with the Libyans, who are putting things in place themselves. I absolutely agree that a much stronger society will emerge if there is a proper and appropriate role for women, which tragically there is not in so many societies. I think going through non-governmental organisations is probably the right answer.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I join others in commending the Prime Minister’s role in these issues? He will know that there are 8,000 Libyan students studying in the United Kingdom at the moment, 2,000 of whom are state-sponsored. The funds for those students are being held by the British Arab Commercial Bank, which cannot release them without the approval of the NTC. Will he use his good offices to ensure that this matter is resolved so that the students can complete their studies and return to rebuild their country?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he says and for his kind comments. My understanding is that the money is now being released, but if there are any problems, we will certainly try to help secure it. I think there will be a welter of problems in dealing with unfrozen assets of people who have got stuck in a different country and all the rest of it, and we will have to work through each of those problems in turn.

Public Disorder

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me say to my hon. Friend that the police have access to baton rounds and they can make the decision to use them—in London, they came quite close to making that decision. That must be an operational decision for the police. The very strong advice from the police is that because, on the whole, they were not dealing with very large crowds, but with very mobile crowds who were intent on criminal behaviour, water cannon would not have been appropriate. That is the police view. The point that I have made is that we should be ready for every possible contingency in future, so we should know how we would answer future questions. That is why water cannon are now available at 24 hours’ notice.

However, I do not agree with my hon. Friend in that I think that the greatest possible deterrent to the lawlessness that we saw is for people to know that, if they do that looting and violence, they will be pulled out of the crowd, arrested immediately and be in front of a court that night. That is the answer. The key to that is more police on the streets so that they are able to be more robust in their interventions.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome all the steps that the Prime Minister has taken since the start of the disorders and join him and others in condemning the criminality and praising the police. Like him, I was out on the streets of London yesterday, and the key issue was police visibility. Is the Prime Minister saying that, if a police force has to dip into contingencies to pay for what has happened in the past few days, the Government will reimburse all the money?

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The point that I have just made is that this inquiry is specifically looking at the relationship between politicians and the media, and—at the request of Hacked Off and the Dowler family—at the conduct of both. That inquiry can go back as far as it wants to go back, to examine the relationship between politicians and the media. Frankly, I think that we all need to be clear—particularly the two main parties—that the level of contact has been very great, and that we did spend too much time trying to get on with media companies to get our message across. As a result, the last Government and the last Opposition too often put on the back burner the issue of how to regulate the media. That is the mistake that we made. We have both—all—got to be honest about it. And by the way, this is not just about the relationship with News International; it is also about the work we do trying to win over the BBC or The Independent or The Guardian. Let us be frank about this, and let us be transparent about the meetings that we have. Then we can learn the lessons and use this as a cathartic moment to sort out the relationship and put it on a better footing.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I am not sure whether the Prime Minister was awake at 5 o’clock this morning—

[The Prime Minister]

indicated assent.

[Keith Vaz]

I am glad to hear it. The Home Affairs Select Committee published a unanimous report that pointed to the fact that we believe that there were serious misjudgments in the police investigation and that News International had deliberately thwarted the police investigation. The Prime Minister will not have had a chance to read the evidence of Lord Macdonald of River Glaven, who said that he took five minutes to look at a file to realise that there was criminality. That file was with Harbottle & Lewis for four years. Will the Prime Minister send out a message from the Dispatch Box that anyone who has information about this matter should hand it over immediately to Sue Akers and explain why it has been withheld?

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly send out that message from the Dispatch Box, at the same time as thanking the right hon. Gentleman for the work that his Committee has done. I have not been able to study all the evidence given yesterday, but I did look at the key conclusions of his report this morning. The work that his Committee is doing in drilling down into the conduct of News International—and, indeed, of the police—is extremely valuable. But now we have to let the police investigation—now properly resourced—get under way, to get to the truth and to ensure that there are prosecutions as appropriate, and then let the inquiry get under way to do its work as well. The right hon. Gentleman has played a very good role in helping to make that happen.

Phone Hacking

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. It takes, as it were, two to blag—someone to ask, and someone to give. We do need to consider the matter. The inquiry will have a huge amount of evidence to go through, and it will need to ensure that it has proper technical expertise to get to the bottom of the matter.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I also welcome the inquiry and thank the Prime Minister for consulting the Home Affairs Committee on the terms of reference? He seems to have included our suggestions in his statement today. He is right to say that the Committee was concerned by some of the evidence that we received yesterday, but we were very impressed by Deputy Assistant Commissioner Sue Akers, who is going through the list at the rate of 30 victims a month, and has about 12,000 telephone numbers to go through. If the Met requires further resources, is the Prime Minister able to give it what it needs?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his approach and the constructive suggestions that he made last night, many of which we have put into the terms of reference. We will also consider some of his thoughts on the membership of the panel. Obviously, it is for the Met to decide how it distributes its resources. Sue Akers has two inquiries going on: one into the phone hacking at the News of the World and elsewhere, and one into corruption within the Met—and that inquiry is now reporting to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which might take over part of it, although of course the police must have operational independence.

Afghanistan

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance because it is important to give people a sense of an end time to these combat operations. As he said, it is always difficult to change the lay-down of British armed forces. I think that the early decision I made to focus on central Helmand and to get out of Sangin has been hugely important in ensuring that we have the right concentration of forces on the ground to do the job that we need to do. It is always difficult to come out of somewhere, but it is an important measure to make us more effective. That does not mean that lives have been lost in vain, however, and the Americans continue to do excellent work in Sangin. Nevertheless, we have to make hard-headed and difficult decisions for the long-term good of our armed forces and country.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

In his discussions with President Karzai, did the Prime Minister raise the issue of the exodus of thousands of Afghanis from Afghanistan? As he knows, I have raised this matter in the House before. Fifty thousand Afghanis crossed the border between Turkey and Greece last year. Although he accepts that the threat from al-Qaeda is receding in Afghanistan, it is increasing in Yemen. What are we going to do about country shopping by al-Qaeda?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right. One of the roles of the National Security Council is to sit down and look at the scale of the threat that we face, and where that threat is coming from. Clearly the threat picture is changing, in that the number of threats coming out of the Pakistan-Afghanistan area is receding, and the number coming from Yemen and Somalia is growing. The nation has to work out how smart we can be in combating that threat. That means learning lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan about how best to combat extremism and violence in those countries. I am determined—with the good advice of the Home Affairs Committee, I am sure—to learn those lessons.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 27th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he said about my constituency chairman, Christopher Shale.

The right hon. Gentleman is right that if one is in a debt situation, one has to deal with one’s deficit and debts and show a path back to solvency. That is what the Government have done. We have had to take some tough measures to show how we will pay down our deficit and debt and that is what other countries must do, too. The right hon. Gentleman is right that it is in Britain’s interest that we should do that and it is also in Britain’s interest that there should not be a disorderly outcome to what we are seeing in Europe.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I suggest that the next EU summit takes place on Filakio on the Greek-Turkish border, where members of the Select Committee on Home Affairs were told that 100,000 people crossed the border between Greece and Turkey last year? Their destination is not Athens but London, Paris or Stockholm. What further steps can we take to encourage our EU colleagues to help countries such as Greece, rather than letting Greece export its problem, and to get Frontex to do the job it is supposed to do?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right that we should support Frontex in its work and that we should support the action that Schengen members are taking to secure Europe’s external borders. That is vital because, as he says, many of those people do not stay in Greece but come to Paris or London. I do not think it is any contradiction to say that we should support that action while at the same time maintaining our own border controls and arrangements, particularly with the French, that have done us proud in recent years.

Japan and the Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me try to reassure my hon. Friend, and through him people who are concerned about this matter. There is no intention to get involved in another war or to see an invasion or massive amounts of ground troops. That is not what is being looked at. What is being looked at is how we can tighten the pressure on an unacceptable, illegitimate regime to give that country some chance of peaceful transition. We would let down ourselves and the Libyan people if we did nothing and said that it was all too difficult. My hon. Friend’s point about Afghanistan is a good one, but I would argue that the real lesson is that the mistake of the west was to forget about Afghanistan and take its eyes off that country, rather than building and investing there when it was making progress. Instead we left it alone, and we have since suffered the consequences.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Was there any discussion at the European Council about the situation in Yemen? The Prime Minister will know that the situation has deteriorated badly, with violence spreading to many cities. It is surely not in anyone’s interests, apart from al-Qaeda, for Yemen to drift into civil war. What can we do to help the Yemeni Government to stabilise the situation, but to continue with the reforms?

[The Prime Minister]

We did discuss the wider region. The country that is probably of the most concern at the moment is Yemen, which the right hon. Gentleman often raises in this House. Again, it is clearly in our interests that the Yemeni Government respond with reform rather than repression. Yemen is a particularly special case because of the great presence of al-Qaeda and our need to encourage its Government to take on the terrorism in their country. The situation is obviously extremely difficult and we keep it under permanent review, not least to ensure that we keep safe the British citizens who are there.

EU Council and North Africa

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 7th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Were there any discussions at the European Council concerning Yemen? The Prime Minister will be aware of how important that country is in the fight against terrorism, and of the excellent talks between the Foreign Secretary and the Yemeni Foreign Secretary last week. Is the Prime Minister satisfied with the package of measures put forward by President Ali Abdullah Saleh? Is not the stability of Yemen absolutely vital in the area? If the Yemeni Government fall, al-Qaeda will be the winner.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which is that Yemen is vital to the security not just of that region, but frankly of our world, because there has been such a lot of al-Qaeda activity in that part of the Arabian peninsula. Yemen was mentioned at the European Council. In terms of the action that President Saleh has taken, clearly we want to see it in detail and see it put in place. There is something of wake-up call in Yemen because of the incredible stresses and problems that that country faces, and we need to work with it. I have met President Saleh and spoken to him on the telephone, and the Foreign Secretary has had meetings, as the right hon. Gentleman says. We need to help Yemen with its reform programme, not just so that it becomes more stable, but so that it is able to deal with the cancer of al-Qaeda which is in its own country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I know this is an issue that many hon. Members care about deeply. We should all pay tribute to the hospice movement and what it does, working with our health service. It is important that we do everything we can to cut red tape and allow charities to thrive. Charities can and do reclaim some of their VAT, but in considering a bigger exemption such as my hon. Friend speaks about, we have to look at the consequences both for the state sector and the private sector, and their relationship with the voluntary sector, before we can take such a step.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister join me in welcoming the visit of the Prime Minister of Bangladesh to the United Kingdom and to Parliament? Apparently, a few years ago, when she came to Prime Minister’s questions, she was so impressed that she decided to institute it in Bangladesh. I am not sure whether she has changed her mind since. Can he give the House an assurance that he will continue to build on the strong bilateral links between Britain and Bangladesh?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. The Prime Minister is very welcome to Britain and also welcome to be watching our deliberations today. As the right hon. Gentleman says, whether she will go away feeling proud and excited by what the mother of Parliaments does on Wednesday at 12 o’clock is another question. She has already had a very good meeting with my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister. Relations between Britain and Bangladesh are good, and we need to expand them still further.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 20th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, which goes to the point made by the former Europe Minister, the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane), which is that we must do better at trying to re-order the priorities of the European budget, but I do not accept that we can do that only by allowing an increase. I accept that we are taking a tough position, because we are trying to get a freeze with major partners for 2014 to 2020, but we also want budget reform and reform of the CAP. We are in the vanguard of arguing for that because we want to see the money better spent. It is right to set out down this path and try to achieve those goals.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister will recall that six months ago he and other EU leaders set out the Europe 2020 strategy as a successor to the Lisbon agenda, which was agreed in 2000. Is he confident that nothing discussed at the weekend will affect the benchmarks that were set in June? With the European Union, what is important is not just getting an agreement, but making sure that countries meet benchmarks on jobs and growth.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point, which is that we should not amend those benchmarks, but the Europe 2020 document is slightly disappointing, because Europe’s real problem is that it has become uncompetitive, has expensive welfare systems and overbearing pension systems and is not complete as a single market. We need a more robust conversation in Europe about how we get growth—how we reform and improve the structure of our economies to get growth. Europe 2020 is only part of that, and we should be more ambitious for next year.

G20 Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Monday 15th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Did the Prime Minister have an opportunity to discuss with President Obama and others the situation in Yemen? After the bomb was discovered at East Midlands airport, the Prime Minister rang President Ali Abdullah Saleh, and he knows that the situation is absolutely desperate there. What help can we give countries such as Yemen?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point. I did discuss that with President Obama. What is happening in Yemen should be absolutely at the top of the list, because of the al-Qaeda threat that is coming out of that part of the Arabian peninsula. President Obama and I agreed that we have to take a mixture of steps. One of the problems is encouraging President Saleh to see that the al-Qaeda threat is a threat to his own country and needs to be top of the list of what he wants to address. Obviously Yemen also faces problems with rebels in the south and Houthi rebels in the north, but we have to convince it that the al-Qaeda threat is a threat to all of us and to the security of the world, and that is what we will do through aid, through the Friends of Yemen process and through every other means at our disposal.

Treatment of Detainees

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is right that the previous ISC findings will be enormously helpful to the inquiry. However, let me try to clarify a bit further what Ministers would have to decide—although hon. Members can also read the guidance published today. It is not that Ministers would be consulted in cases of torture, because torture is ruled out completely. This difficult matter refers to cases of so-called mistreatment, of which there is no proper definition: it can range from things that we would probably consider to be torture, such as waterboarding, to factors such as an inappropriately sized cell. That is why there is some need, in the very difficult circumstances with which one of our agents could be faced, for that level of discretion. That is the sort of moment we have to try to consider and get right, and not be over-bureaucratic about.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome the establishment of this inquiry and the appointment of the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind). The Prime Minister is right to praise the work of the security services, but will he also acknowledge the work done by the Metropolitan police counter-terrorism unit? Given that, as a distinguished former member of the Home Affairs Committee, he has accepted one of the Committee’s recommendations—the establishment of the National Security Council—will he consider the second recommendation in that area, which is for the Government to allow intercept evidence in court proceedings?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very keen on recommendations of the Home Affairs Committee. Another of its excellent recommendations was a border police force. On intercept, we all, I think, want to see that happen. We all want more of those accused of terrorism to go through the court process, and to be tried, convicted and imprisoned—and intercept evidence would be hugely helpful. However, it is extremely difficult to do. One of the greatest enthusiasts in the last Parliament—apart from myself—for intercept evidence being available in court was the former Member for Folkestone, Michael Howard. He was on that Committee, but did not find a way to make this happen, so let us not overestimate how easy it is to do; it is not easy at all.