Report of the Iraq Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am going to hesitate before replying to my hon. Friend, because there is not a huge amount about that in the executive summary of the Iraq inquiry. I think we will probably have to dive into the volumes to see exactly what Sir John has to say about advice from the MOD, advice from the Foreign Office, how much group-think there genuinely was, and all the rest of it. So I would hesitate. I think we need to study the report, and then we can discuss the matter during next week’s debate.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Those of us who come to the report scandalised anew by the duplicity of presentation and the paucity of preparation on such grave matters must nevertheless remember most those who are acutely burdened today by their cruel sense of futility of sacrifice in terms of lives lost, lives devastated and lives changed. The Prime Minister has rightly emphasised that lessons need to be learned, but we must be careful not to turn the report into a greywash by converting it into a syllabus about foresight in government and oversight in Parliament. This is not a day for soundbites, but does the Prime Minister not agree that the hand of history should be feeling someone’s collar?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not think it is a greywash or a whitewash or an anything elsewash. I think, from what I have seen so far, that this is a thorough effort in trying to understand the narrative of the events, the decisions that were taken and the mistakes that were made. I think there is a huge amount to learn and everyone who has played a part in it has to take their responsibility for it.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It was pretty late by the time I got back, and there was not really time for anything.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I join the acknowledgements being given to the Prime Minister. I do not really think he fully appreciates—certainly, his Secretary of State does not—that when we negotiated the Good Friday agreement, common membership of the EU was taken as a given, and it is there in the fabric of the agreement. At the core of that agreement is the principle of consent, but the people of Northern Ireland now find that they are being dragged out of the European Union against their consent, as expressed when they voted for the Good Friday agreement and in the referendum last week, when 78.2% in my constituency voted to remain. It is not enough for the Prime Minister to say now that the negotiations that will take place will sort things out for us. It is clear that English politics does not have a sat-nav or a map for where it now finds itself, yet he is simply telling us that we will have to tailgate and go where the impulses and prejudices of English politics drive next. We need to achieve a better situation to protect EU access and benefits for our constituents.

[The Prime Minister]

I totally understand the hon. Gentleman’s passion about this—he and I were on the same side—but my reading of the history of this is different. The Good Friday agreement, based on the principle of consent, was that the United Kingdom would continue and Northern Ireland would be part of that United Kingdom. This is a sovereign decision for the United Kingdom. Now, the job of the United Kingdom Government, in full collaboration with the First and Deputy First Ministers in Northern Ireland, is to try to get the best possible negotiation in terms of Britain’s place, and therefore Northern Ireland’s place, so that relations north-south can be as strong as they can.

UK-EU Renegotiation

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for her remarks. Of course section B is important, but it is also worth looking at the draft European Council declaration on competitiveness which adds to section B and brings out some more details.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Obviously any referendum debate will centre on the bigger picture, the longer-term challenge and deeper interests, but as well as the issues raised by my hon. Friend the Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie), will the right hon. Gentleman address whether the package he has come up with to do with the changes in relation to child benefit will automatically extend to cross-border workers in a constituency like mine, where EU precepts apply?

[The Prime Minister]

I will look very carefully at that issue, but I seem to recall from conversations I had with the Taoiseach that there are particular arrangements for the common travel area. But I will come back to the hon. Gentleman on this.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will look carefully at what happens when you “pass go”! I believe that we are getting closer to an agreement on Britain’s renegotiation, and at that point—not before—although the Government will have a clear recommendation, Ministers will be able to campaign in a personal capacity on a different side, as I have said. But that needs to happen after the negotiation has taken place. I think that Members on both sides of the House, and indeed members of the public and businesses and others, want to know what the renegotiation amounts to. We need to have a proper debate about what we bring back, and then people will be able to make up their minds. In the end, it will not be any of us who decides the outcome; it will be the people who put us here.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

It is not only Save the Children but UNICEF and others, including the International Development Committee, that are urging the Prime Minister to give a positive and decisive response on the issue of unaccompanied children. Does he recognise that the over 26,000 unaccompanied children who came to Europe last year came not just from Syria but from other places of conflict, and some of them already have relatives in the UK? Does he not think that he would be in a stronger position at the donor conference he is co-hosting next month if he had already made a clear decision?

Syria

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s support. The advice I am getting is that there is no quick or easy way of solving the problem. We have been committed for four years to humanitarian assistance and to the diplomatic process for many years—remember, we have had Geneva I, Geneva II and now Vienna. In the same way, this whole process will take a long time, and we should be clear about that.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister has stressed that the ISIL-first strategy cannot extend to our intervening as an ally of Assad. In the memorandum to the FAC, he said that an intervention on such terms would be wrong on three grounds: it would misunderstand the causes of the problem; it would make matters worse; and Assad’s rule is one of ISIL’s greatest recruiting sergeants. Does he accept that those valid considerations against such intervention also persuade many of us against intervention on the terms he is commending? We do not want to feed the evil we want to defeat.

[The Prime Minister]

I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, but if we do not intervene against ISIL, we should not be surprised when it grows and threatens us more. Of course there are concerns and difficult questions—it is a complex situation—but, as I have said, just because a strategy is complicated and takes a long time does not mean it is not the right strategy and cannot work. If hon. Members are looking for complexity as a reason to say, “This is difficult, and therefore we cannot support it”, they will not have any trouble finding it—it is complex—but in the end it comes down to some simple judgments about what will make us safer or less safe.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 28th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do agree. John from Weaver Vale has demonstrated more sense in his email than the Leader of the Opposition did in at least six of his questions. The point is that not only have we seen an economy that is growing—2 million more people in work—inflation that is low and living standards that are rising, but there are 680,000 fewer workless households and 480,000 fewer children in workless households. If we want to measure the real difference that the growth in our economy is making, think of those children, those households and the dignity of work.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q12. Last weekend was the first anniversary of the death from cervical cancer of Derry girl Sorcha Glenn, aged 23. In June 2013, she had been concerned enough to ask for an early smear test, but was refused because she was under 25. As Team Sorcha, which highlights other cases, her family has now written an open letter to the Prime Minister. May I ask him not to offer here a reflex repeat of the rationale for current screening age policy, but to reflect on the questions raised about how that translates into refusing smear tests to young women such as Sorcha, and to consider the age-related data since the screening age was increased in 2004?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman raises an absolutely tragic case, and our thoughts go out to the family and friends involved. He raises an important case, because the UK National Screening Committee set the age at 25. My understanding is that that was not a resources-based decision. The reason was to do with the potential perverse medical consequences of carrying out screening routinely below that age. It is felt that there could potentially be a number of false positives because of the anatomical changes that go on at that age. As he says though, the matter is worth considering, as there are people who fear that they have family history and who ask for a test. I will certainly write to him on that specific issue.

Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give that assurance. It is important to select people who are genuinely vulnerable and need to be saved. We will be careful not to accept people who might support extremist or terrorist views.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Constraints mean that I will have to park questions about the deployment of lethal force against a UK citizen in order to address the refugee crisis. The Prime Minister talked about supporting these refugees in their hour of need, but how does that rhetoric chime with admitting only 20,000 over the course of five years, with overtones of disqualification for those who have already made perilous journeys and perhaps lost loved ones? Will the Prime Minister go further than merely have his Ministers having disparate conversations with First Ministers and will he, along with the Irish Government, convene a special meeting of the British-Irish Council properly to co-ordinate the response for refugees across all the Administrations of these islands, taking account of their different service models, and to offer good partnership to international agencies and domestic charities that want to help?

[The Prime Minister]

I will look carefully at what the hon. Gentleman says. Obviously, what the Republic of Ireland does is a matter for the Republic of Ireland, if it wants to opt in to the relocation system. I am pretty confident that 20,000 refugees coming into Britain is, and will be seen to be by other European countries, a generous and compassionate offer that will help to take the pressure off other European countries.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First of all, let me take this opportunity to praise my hon. Friend’s constituent and the skills that were used on that dreadful day in Tunisia. The Bill will reinforce the work we have already done to increase funding for counter-terrorism and counter-terrorism policing; make sure there is a duty on public authorities to combat radicalisation; and go after the fact that there are groups and individuals who are very clever at endorsing extremism but then stopping one step short of actually condoning terrorism. That is what the new banning orders we are looking at aim to achieve, because we are clear that people who support the extremist narrative have no place in our public debate.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q2. Given regional wage profiles, many families in the north of Ireland will identify with the concerns raised today by the four children’s commissioners about tax credits. Further to heeding those wider warnings, will the Prime Minister have the Chancellor take particular care to ensure that no supposedly more targeted changes to child benefit or tax credits will end up being misdirected against natural, everyday, cross-border working families in my constituency and its hinterland?

[The Prime Minister]

When we talk about cross-border working families, it is still the case that welfare arrangements in the United Kingdom are far more generous than what is available in the Republic of Ireland. Our view is clear: the right answer is to create jobs, cut taxes, raise living standards and reduce welfare. I want an economy that has high pay, low taxes and low welfare, instead of low pay, high taxes and high welfare.

Let me share with the House one important statistic. Under the last Labour Government—[Interruption.] I know that Labour Members do not want to talk about the last Labour Government. [Interruption.] Well, under the last Government, inequality and child poverty fell. Now for the history lesson: let us go back to the last Labour Government. Under Labour, the number of working-age people in in-work poverty rose by about 20%. That was at the same time as welfare spending on people in work went up from £6 billion to £28 billion. What that shows is that the Labour model of taking money off people in tax and recycling it back to them in tax credits has not worked. It is time for a new approach of creating jobs, cutting taxes and having businesses that are creating the livelihoods we need.

G7

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. One thing we did as part of the Lough Erne process was to make sure that the Crown dependencies and overseas territories of the United Kingdom played their part. We can also push this agenda through the Commonwealth. Things like the register of beneficial ownership of companies are hugely helpful to the poorest countries in the world, which are often the victims of being ripped off by unscrupulous businesses. Having these registers, starting with Britain’s, will help enormously.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister has sounded some strong notes against corruption. Will that sound carry through to his Government’s engagements with all the Gulf states and their regimes’ myriad interests? In that context, will he also amplify the message on human rights?

[The Prime Minister]

The answer to the hon. Gentleman is yes. We believe that we should encourage all countries to become more transparent and open in their dealings. Whether by signing up to transparency in the extractive industries or through the register of beneficial ownership, we have been leading by example.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q5. As a Back Bencher, the Prime Minister campaigned for group B strep awareness. I am sure that he is aware of Northwick Park hospital’s highly successful programme of universal GBS screening, which proves the very case that he used to make. Will he now encourage Ministers to roll out GBS-specific testing as a routine offer to all pregnant women in all our health services?

[The Prime Minister]

May I say how grateful I am to the hon. Gentleman for raising the issue? Two of my constituents, Craig and Alison Richards, came to my surgery and raised it with me, and that is what caused me to become interested in it in the first place.

We have made some big breakthroughs. The national health service is doing much more screening and taking much more action to help those who potentially have the infection, although there are difficulties with national programmes because of the whole issue of anti-microbial resistance and the use of antibiotics. However, I am happy to take this opportunity to look into what has been achieved so far and what more can be done, and then write to the hon. Gentleman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 4th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. I have met the Jewish Leadership Council and discussed this issue in the light of the Paris attacks. As he knows, the schools security grant, which we introduced, has made available £2.3 million of funding in the current year to protect security at Jewish schools, and it will be maintained next year. The Education Secretary is also going to meet the Community Security Trust to see whether we can do more to help Jewish independent schools. In my view, we need to do everything we can to help this community feel safe and secure in our country. I would hate it for British Jews not to feel that they have a home here in Britain—safe, secure and a vital part of our community.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q15. It is now two years since a meningitis B vaccine was licensed for use across the EU. To achieve its effect of being able to prevent more than 80% of meningitis B cases here, it needs to be on the routine immunisation schedule for the NHS. The Prime Minister sounded hopeful in the House in November. Can he give us some indication as to when there will be a conclusion to the negotiations between the Government and Novartis?

[The Prime Minister]

I am afraid I cannot give any further update; the discussions are still under way. As the hon. Gentleman knows, this would be a vital step forward, because of the horrors of this disease. But he also knows that there would be huge cost issues if we were to make sure that this was made available. So those discussions with the drug company are vital. They are ongoing, and if I can give him an update in a letter, I will do so.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Monday 17th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am not aware of any, but I shall have to go away and look carefully at the point my hon. Friend makes. He has been making a series of extremely worthwhile interventions on this subject. For instance, we should ensure that we act consistently with partners at the UN to list and put sanctions on individuals, but the point he makes about ensuring that the people we sanction are also on travel bans is very good, and I will look into it and write to him.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Further to the Prime Minister’s point about the progress on corporate tax avoidance, he can acknowledge that many poor countries are unable to sign up for automatic exchange of information. Will his Government consider offering bilateral pilots to some of those countries, and will they also do a spill-over analysis, as requested by the OECD and carried out by the Irish and Dutch Governments, of the implications of the tax regime here for those poor countries? Would such an analysis consider the controlled foreign companies rules put in place by this Government, which are taking money away from poor Exchequers?

[The Prime Minister]

Where I would seek common cause with the hon. Gentleman is on the idea that poorer countries are often unable to take part in the tax exchange because they do not have the capacity to process the information and use it to raise funds. That is why initiatives such as tax inspectors without borders and putting resources into these countries to help with their tax regimes are important. I do not agree that what we have done to attract foreign companies is irresponsible. We charge our taxes properly, and it is good that some practices that were—let me put it this way—questionable, such as the so-called double Irish scheme, have been taken away. Low tax rates and the proper application of those tax rates are the prize we should be looking for.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course I listen carefully to the hon. Gentleman, but I also listen carefully to the police, the intelligence services and those who work around the clock to keep us safe. Their point of view is not that we need some wide-ranging piece of legislation, but that they have identified some specific problems that need to be dealt with. My responsibility as Prime Minister whose most important task is to do everything possible to keep our people safe is to listen to them, to bring the ideas based on those concerns to this Parliament, to debate them and then to put them in place.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister has stressed the need to counter the extremist narrative. Clearly, he recognises that there are those who are sowing alienation, radicalisation, extremism and subversion, but does he also recognise the danger of helping to fertilise what they are trying to propagate? I am talking about when Governments appear to adopt double standards and inconsistency in relation to clear violations of international law, not least in respect of Gaza, and then in domestic law appear to create a twilight zone around the very basic concept of citizenship.

[The Prime Minister]

I do not accept that we are operating any sort of double standards. I have set out the situation very clearly with respect to Israel and Gaza, and also the problems that we face with ISIL. It will be for hon. Members to decide whether or not they want to support that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 25th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to look at what my hon. Friend suggests. I know that the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), has been working extremely hard on this issue. I think it is important that we listen to what the firefighters say but at the same time recognise that the pensions they have access to would require the building of a £500,000 pot for anyone else in our country. We should bear that and the taxpayers’ contribution in mind.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q5. Does the Prime Minister accept that his death at 60 proves that Gerry Conlon lost more than 15 terrible years in prison, and the anguish of his father’s torment, owing to the injustice from layers of this state? As well as his wider campaigning against injustice, there were two particular issues that mattered to Gerry in recent years. One was the need for proper, quality mental health services for those who suffered miscarriages of justice. Secondly—I would like the Prime Minister to address this in particular—notwithstanding the egregious 75-year seal put on the Guildford and other papers, Gerry was recently promised access to the archives at Kew and that people could accompany him. It was his dying wish that that would be honoured through the people he wanted to accompany him. Will the Prime Minister ensure that the dying wish of an innocent man is honoured?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising this, and for the way in which he does it. It is hard to think what 15 years in prison, when you are innocent of a crime of which you have been convicted, would do to somebody. It is absolutely right that a previous Prime Minister apologised as fully as he did when this came to pass. I am very happy to look at the specific request about the records at Kew, which has not been put to me before, and perhaps contact the hon. Gentleman about that it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 11th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is no good shouting from the Opposition Benches. Labour Members had the opportunity to reform the Lords, and they were the ones who stopped it.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q9. The Prime Minister says that the G8 and his attendance at the investment conference advertised his commitment to Northern Ireland and its economy. However, his Whitehall is busy removing jobs from Northern Ireland in the Driver and Vehicle Agency and now also in Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, with the proposal to close offices in Newry and Enniskillen and halve the office in my constituency of Foyle. How does the removal of jobs by Whitehall contribute to balancing both the economy in Northern Ireland and that region?

[The Prime Minister]

I understand why the hon. Gentleman makes his point. My hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary will meet him to talk about the HMRC issues. As for the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, the Department for Transport is still considering the results of its consultation. Let me make this point. Employment in Northern Ireland has risen by 32,000 since the election, and he knows, as I do, that the real long-term answer for the economy in Northern Ireland is a private sector revival. The public sector is very large in Northern Ireland. We need more small and medium-sized enterprises and more investment in Northern Ireland, and we need those jobs to come, which is what the G8 and the investment conference were all about.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me pay tribute to what Alan Turing and all the people who worked at Bletchley Park did for our country—it was absolutely remarkable and it was crucial in winning the second world war. Clearly what happened to him was completely wrong and now, looking back, everyone can see that—everybody knows that. I am very happy to look at the specific issue of the pardon and respond to the hon. Gentleman, but above all what we should do is praise Alan Turing and the brave people who worked for him.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q2. Today is world food day. The Prime Minister embraced the IF campaign, including the need to cut pseudo-green biofuel mandates, which in effect hijack food productivity for the world’s poor for fuel consumption by the rich. Today the EU presidency is proposing a 7% cap, as opposed to the 5% cap advocated by the European Commission. That difference could feed 68 million people a year. What efforts is the Prime Minister making actively to avert EU Governments compromising the fight against world hunger?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the campaign that he has waged on this issue. We are absolutely clear that the production of biofuels should not undermine food security, and on some occasions in some countries it clearly does. A 5% cap on biofuels made from crops was one of the key asks of the IF campaign. I support the IF campaign and pay tribute to what it did. That is exactly what we are pushing for in current EU negotiations, and I hope we will be successful.

G8

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Of course, if Britain wanted to leave the European Union, we could do so and we could then make trade deals with every country in the world. Obviously that path is open to us. The argument that I would make is that, as part of the European Union—the world’s largest single market—we have the opportunity to drive some quite good deals. Clearly we sometimes have to make compromises with EU partners with whom we might not agree, but I would argue that, on balance, membership of the single market brings clear benefits, as does the negotiating heft that we have. The whole point is that we are going to be able to debate and discuss this, not least in the run-up to a referendum by the end of 2017.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister will understand that some of us are still seeking assurance that the outcomes from the G8 summit will be as thoroughly welcome and significant as its arrival in Northern Ireland. The Lough Erne declaration contains 10 points, which contain 13 “shoulds” and not a single “shall”. The “G8 action plan principles to prevent the misuse of companies and legal arrangements” provides eight principles containing 17 “shoulds”, one “could” and no “shall”. The provisions will be subject to a process of self-reporting against individual action plans. The UK individual action plan, which was helpfully published here yesterday, sets out 10 points offering standards, most of which should or could have been reached under existing laws and Financial Action Task Force requirements. What confidence can we have that the Prime Minister will ensure that the commitments made yesterday will go the distance?

[The Prime Minister]

This is a journey, and the question is: how far down the road are we? I would argue that we have taken some serious steps down that road by setting out clearly what needs to be done on beneficial ownership, on automatic exchange of information and on international tax standards. If we look at what Britain has done—with the Crown dependencies and overseas territories, for instance—we can see real progress. Is there a lot more to do? Yes. Do we need international reporting on it? Yes. Has the G8 lifted this issue? Frankly, tax transparency and beneficial ownership were academic issues that were discussed in lofty academic circles, but they are now kitchen table issues that are being discussed by the G8 leaders, who have pledged to take action on them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am always happy to meet my hon. Friend and discuss these and other issues. In the spending review, we produced £1.5 billion to provide the uplift for the Territorial Army that it requires. I am absolutely convinced that it is right to have a different balance between regulars and reserves, as other countries have done, but obviously it is absolutely vital that we get that new recruitment of our reserve forces. That is why the money is there.

On the wider issues of defence that I know my hon. Friend cares about, we will have some of the best equipped forces anywhere in the world. We will have the new aircraft carriers for our Navy, the hunter killer submarines, the joint strike fighter and the excellent Typhoon aircraft, and the A400M will soon be coming into service. Our troops in Afghanistan now say that they are better equipped, better protected and better provided for than they have ever been in our history.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q9. The Prime Minister’s pledge to lead against hunger at the G8 and in the UN is welcome. Will it also extend to EU negotiations on the future of the misdirected 10% directive on biofuels, which basically burns as fuel for Europe what should be food for the poor? Does the Prime Minister recognise that that mandate is driving land grabs and rising food prices, compounding hunger and adding to carbon emissions?

[The Prime Minister]

I am delighted that we are bringing the G8 to Northern Ireland. I hope that it will provide a boost for the Northern Irish economy, and we can discuss some of these issues at that meeting. I agree that we should not allow the production of biofuels to undermine food security. We want to go further than the European Commission’s proposed cap of 5% on crop-based biofuels, so there is considerable merit in what the hon. Gentleman says.

Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust (Inquiry)

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to health care professionals in Cornwall. I am particularly grateful to them, as they delivered my daughter two and a half years ago. I am ever grateful for the brilliant service that they performed for me, and it was a very caring environment too. The CQC has the resources it needs. It is a new organisation and has faced many challenges. A big reform of it is under way. Being asked to scrutinise everything from the dentist’s waiting room to the largest hospital in the land is challenging, and we need to work on the organisation and make sure that it can deliver what we need.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I commend the Prime Minister for his words and work on the issue. In the culture that he seeks, it is important that hospital chaplains and chaplaincy networks know what observer standing they might have and how and where they should channel any pastoral concerns or compliments that they have. On his important proposal for the chief inspector of hospitals, can the Prime Minister tell us whether that telling new faculty would be available to the devolved hospital services as well?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the role of chaplains. If those who are closely involved with hospitals see anything going wrong, they should feel a duty to speak out. That could be groups of hospital friends or chaplains. With reference to the devolved Administrations, I expect there are similar issues in terms of culture, which Francis examines, and in terms of complacency and putting patient care above targets, and I am sure that they, too, will want to learn the lessons from the report.

Patrick Finucane Report

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 12th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his remarks about those who served and those who continue to serve, including the Royal Marines. One cannot say exactly how long a public inquiry would take, but as we have learnt from experience, an enormous amount of ground clearing work would need to be done before it could even get going—the process of everyone hiring lawyers and trying to work out who is going to have anonymity and so forth. I came to office having made a promise that we were not going to have further costly open-ended inquiries. I have looked at the evidence in this case, and I have met the family, and I have seen that there is nothing the Government are holding back. I could see a stronger case for an inquiry if there was an open question about whether we were prepared to admit there was a problem with the MOD; we are. Was there a problem with parts of the RUC? There was. Were Ministers misled? I can say yes, they were. There is no argument that we are holding back on, so what matters is getting to the truth with the greatest disclosure, and I do not think that that requires an inquiry.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister must realise that many of us find it hard to leave these matters simply to the interpretations and inferences Desmond de Silva has drawn from the dreadful evidence his inquiry has produced. We are dealing with a situation where terrorism took on the form of paramilitarism and military intelligence took on the form of para-terrorism. That is what was happening. In Special Branch, the force research unit and the secret services, there was a culture of anything goes but nobody knows—and following Desmond de Silva’s report we are still being asked to accept that nobody knows. Our predecessor Social Democratic and Labour party MPs told the Ministers of the time that that was what was going on. That is why we said we needed a new beginning to policing and we needed Special Branch to go, yet in all that time we were denounced, denigrated and dismissed. The one good thing about the Prime Minister’s statement today is that others in this House can no longer be in denial about what was happening.

There were so many levels and layers of collusion—all the deadly dereliction and the deviance and the dark deployment—but we are being asked to agree that it all adds up to there being no co-ordination. The Prime Minister must know that if we are to get to the bottom of this, we have to get to the top of it, but Desmond de Silva is trying to tell us, “No, there was no top.”

[The Prime Minister]

I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, the campaign he has fought and the points he has made. He and his predecessors in the SDLP were right about what went wrong, and this report shows that they were right. It shows the extent to which we are prepared to open up and be clear about what happened. As for the organisations he mentions, the FRU has gone, and the RUC Special Branch has gone, so the question now is whether there is anything else to discover that this report has not discovered but a public inquiry would, and I do not believe there is.

In answer to the hon. Gentleman’s specific question about how high this went, Sir Desmond de Silva is absolutely clear that Ministers were misled and briefings were given that should not have been given, but he does not find that there was a ministerial conspiracy or ministerial order for the murder of Pat Finucane. That is very important. We now have a true picture and it is for others, including the police and the prosecuting authorities, to work out whether there is anything more that can be done.

Hillsborough

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have listened carefully to the hon. Lady, as, I am sure, did the Attorney-General and Home Secretary. She made a very powerful point.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I join other hon. Members in welcoming the full and fluent apology from the Prime Minister, and the profound words of the Leader of the Opposition. Those words are authoritative because they rest on the diligent work of the panel that the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) was so right to establish. The Prime Minister will know that Bloody Sunday families and survivors in my constituency have a profound empathy with those Hillsborough families that have struggled with grief compounded by grievance, and endured injustice, insult and indifference. Does the Prime Minister recognise that this report will not only mean that Hillsborough families are overcome with a sense of vindication, but that it will also provoke many other mixed and difficult emotions and issues? Will he ensure that relevant services are supported and supplemented to help the families and survivors of Hillsborough with those needs?

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure that with his experience of Bloody Sunday and the Saville inquiry, the hon. Gentleman is completely right to say that the families will need a lot of support and help as they digest what is in the report. The commonality, as it were, of the two things, is that a Government should not make an apology just because something bad happened some time ago. The apology should be in respect of the fact that there is new information that injustice took place and was allowed to lie for far too long, and that false stories were got up about what happened. That is why an apology is not only right, but the necessary and correct thing to do, and that is where there is common ground between the two issues raised by the hon. Gentleman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As my hon. Friend knows, Governments cannot release information provided by previous Governments, but I am sure that this is an issue that the previous Prime Minister will want to consider, given the very clear statement that he made.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister will probably not be aware that a firm in my constituency, Niche Drinks, produces cream liqueurs and other intermediate alcohol products. I do not know whether he ever chillaxes with such commodities. The company has recently planned a £10 million investment, and more than 40% of its exports are outside the EU. However, it and other similar firms on this island are worried that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is reinterpreting how to treat their products for duty purposes, under pressure from the European Commission following its erroneous interpretation of a European Court of Justice ruling in 2009. Will the Prime Minister ensure that a competent Treasury Minister meets me and other interested MPs to ensure that common sense and consistency prevail?

[The Prime Minister]

I have not tried one of those delicious-sounding beverages. If it is all right with the hon. Gentleman, I will wait until after tomorrow before doing so. I understand that there is an issue with HMRC, and I would be very happy to arrange a meeting between him and a Treasury Minister so that they can look carefully at this issue.

G8 and NATO Summits

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I think it is still a net bonus to the world that there has been the Arab spring, and we need the wealthy countries of the world and the European Union to get behind it. One of the problems we face is that those north African and Arab countries that have set themselves free were told in the past that they had experienced a free enterprise economy, whereas in fact they had really been having a sort of crony capitalism economy. We need to work very hard with them to encourage them to take a path that will make sure that their economies grow for the future.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s alert on the levels of aid going from the richest to the poorest countries. In following through on the commitment to sustainable hunger reduction, will he promote more support for smallholder farmers, who number more than half the world’s 1 billion hungry people, so that they and their families can grow and eat more and better food, can trade produce and can employ others, thus helping communities to thrive?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point; part of the presentation given to the G8 by the New Alliance for Food Security and Nutrition was that through the proper use of fertilisers and of things such as exchanges, we can actually make sure that smaller farmers become more sustainable, grow their yields and can not only feed their families, but build a small business.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister has mentioned a special focus on trade deals with fast-growing parts of the world. Will that focus take account of human rights experiences in those parts of the world, and how will he ensure that this push does not compound the frustration of poor developing countries that are waiting for trade justice?

[The Prime Minister]

On trade justice with the poorest countries in the world, the EU has quite a good record on giving those countries duty-free access to our markets under the “Everything but Arms” agreements. Where we should make more progress is, for example, on the free trade agreement with Korea, which is worth up to £0.5 billion to the British economy. There are opportunities for many more free trade agreements, which include all sorts of different stipulations but could make us more prosperous here at home, too.

Informal European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We did not discuss that specific matter. It is entirely right and worth while to try to bring regional neighbours into the debate, but I have to say that it is some of the regional powers that are the most concerned about Iranian activity, not only in their own countries but in stirring up trouble elsewhere, so it is probably only part of what needs to happen, which is to get the Iranian Government to change their strategic direction.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister has highlighted a growth test to ensure that all actions at European Union level fully support growth and job creation. This new “I can’t believe it’s not an EU treaty” will prescribe prolonged and tight austerity for many economies, affecting not only services there but trade and commercial capacity more widely in Europe. Would this non-EU treaty pass any meaningful EU growth test?

[The Prime Minister]

If the hon. Gentleman is so against the treaty, I am surprised that he is not praising me for making sure that Britain is not involved in it; I would have thought that would be the first thing that he would say. We have to understand that the countries of the eurozone want to take an approach that prescribes rules on debt and deficit. We can all have our own views about whether it is the right approach or whether it is too tight, and all the rest of it, but that is what they want to do; I do not think that we should stand in their way as it is done, but it is better done outside the European Union.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend has a great record in pushing forward that absolutely vital idea. It is a tragic fact that so many couples break up after the arrival of the first child because of all the stresses and strains that can bring. That is dreadful for those couples and dreadful for those children. We spend a huge amount as a country dealing with the problems of social breakdown; in my view we should spend more on trying to help to keep families together. Relationship advice and support, as he says, is absolutely vital in that.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q8. On Friday the UN Security Council will consider the democratically conveyed Palestinian request for full membership of the UN. Might not the international community do more to advance the prospect of a two-state solution by doing more to create a two-state process? In that context, will he ensure that the UK representative casts a positive vote on Friday, and does not go for the cop-out of abstention?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will make a full statement to the House on this issue in a few moments, but let me say this: the British Government are fully behind the two-state solution, but I profoundly believe that we will get that not through declarations and processes at the UN, but through the two potential states—Israel and Palestine—sitting down and negotiating. All our efforts should go towards helping to make that happen.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We have to ask clearly, “What is in the UK national interest?” At the heart of our national interest, when it comes to the EU, is not only access to that single market but the need to ensure that we are sitting around the table of the single market determining the rules that our exporters have to follow. That is key to our national interest, and we must not lose that.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Which situation does the Prime Minister hope that we will arrive at first: the eurozone passing a brink without teetering on it, or his Eurosceptics passing a top without going over it?

[The Prime Minister]

That one obviously took a long time to construct. I believe that the eurozone countries are coming together and seeing the need for a big and bold solution. That needs to happen. It will not solve the problem—because there are still major stresses and strains within the eurozone that need to be dealt with in the long term—but I think that it will happen this week. It is up to the House of Commons how it votes tonight, but I am clear that it is in our interest to be in the EU but seeking our national advantage and national interest at all times.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 19th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. People should listen to what the Governor of the Bank of England said yesterday:

“With a lower level of sterling and a credible plan to reduce the fiscal deficit over the medium term, we were on track. But the problems in the euro area and the marked slowing of the world economy have lengthened the period over which a return to normality is likely.”

That is what we face in this country, but it means that we should stick to the plan of dealing with our debts and our deficit. If we listened to the Labour party and added £23 billion to the deficit this year, it would not be “Greek-onomics”; it would be “freakonomics”.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Q2. The Prime Minister has acknowledged that there was collusion in the murder of Pat Finucane. Does he accept that in order to get to the bottom of that we have to get to the top of that? Does he recognise that many of us lack confidence that a desk review by even an eminent lawyer will be able to do that? Will he reflect further on the grave misgivings expressed by the Finucane family and the Irish Government?

Libya

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As I said in my statement, I do not subscribe to this idea that because we cannot fix every problem in the world, we should not fix any problem in the world. It seemed to me that, in a totally practical way, here was a problem that we had a moral obligation to try to deal with because we could prevent a massacre—as well as, if you like, an “ought”, there was also a “could”. We were able to do this because we had the support of Arab nations, because we had NATO behind us and because we convinced the UN Security Council to vote for it. When “ought” and “can” come together, there is a pretty good case for action.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The Prime Minister has spoken of hope across the wider region following events in Libya. Will both the premium that he and other international leaders have put on inclusion and consensus in building constitutions and states, and the primacy of democratic elections also be reflected in their response to the current efforts of the Palestinian Authority in respect of statehood, given that this month is the target date when statehood was to be recognised at the UN?

[The Prime Minister]

As I said earlier, I see all these issues as being linked. Just as we want to see greater democracy, peace and progress in middle eastern countries across the board, so we want to see the Palestinians have the dignity of their own state. However, we believe in the two-state solution, so it must be a Palestine alongside a secure Israel. When it comes to the whole issue of recognition, the test for us is: are we doing something that will help to push forward the peace process? That is the most important thing. In the end, we cannot compel Israel and Palestine to reach peace between themselves; they have to want to do it.

Phone Hacking

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Clearly, one thing that the second part of the inquiry will consider, as well as the first police investigation, what went wrong and why it was insufficient, is the review of that investigation and why it did not result in further action. Those are difficult questions and it is right that an inquiry should consider them.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Has the Prime Minister satisfied himself that the proposed double-barrelled inquiry will be proofed against the possible chicane of legal challenges to its conduct and scope that it could face from various interests? Has he also anticipated the various calls, a few of them valid, for legal representation at the inquiry? Will Ministers or former Ministers, when they are giving or preparing evidence, do so with the support and assistance of Law Officers?

[The Prime Minister]

That is a very good question. I have found, doing this job, that almost nothing is chicaned, as he put it, from legal inquiry. We think we are doing this in the right way under the Inquiries Act 2005 and all the things that flow from that, but I can perhaps consider the detail of his question about preparation for Ministers.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Monday 27th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

There were long discussions about this issue because the Mediterranean countries in particular feel extremely strongly that we have got to do more to strengthen borders and Frontex, which can help to secure Britain’s perimeter. Britain is fully supportive of that, and we are not in the Schengen area, which means that we are protected from some of the problems that Schengen countries are suffering from. I think we have the best of both worlds—backing the action taken at Europe’s perimeter while at the same time being able to maintain tough and strict border controls for our own country.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

In the midst of all the other pressing issues on which the Prime Minister has reported from the European Council, was there any acknowledgement of the gathering ravages of conflict in parts of Sudan, the humanitarian crisis facing people there yet again and the plight of aid workers and journalists from Europe in that situation? Does the duty to protect extend to them?

[The Prime Minister]

The issues of Sudan were not discussed at the European Council itself, but they will be discussed at the Foreign Affairs Council that is coming up soon. I raised the issue of Sudan with Premier Wen today, because of the close relationship between China and northern Sudan. It is important that the terms of the comprehensive peace agreement are properly stuck to and that we deliver that and the two-state solution that is being put in place, in which Britain has played a constructive part.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Wednesday 9th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am delighted to say that a huge number of councils have done that. I think it was right to announce a freeze in council tax, which will bring real help to households across the country, saving the average family up to £72 a year at a time when they face difficulties with the cost of living. That compares, as my hon. Friend said, with a doubling of council tax under the last Government. As to whether they have learned any lessons from that, I have to say that Labour’s shadow Local Government Minister, the hon. Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson) attacked this freeze as

“nothing more than a gimmick”.—[Official Report, 17 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 531.]

Yet it is bringing relief to hard-pressed families up and down our country and it is absolutely the right policy.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Is the Prime Minister aware of a commitment in the programme for government of the coalition Government who are taking office in Dublin today to move to an opt-out system for organ donation? As well as whatever consideration his Government might give to that proposal, will the Prime Minister undertake to work with all other Administrations in these islands through the British-Irish Council to increase the number of organ donors and to improve networks for sourcing and sharing donor organs and transplant services for people who need that life-saving and life-changing treatment?

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly agree to do that. It is important that we try to increase the amount of organs available for donation. In the last Parliament, there was a debate about whether we should move formally to an opt-out system, and there are difficulties with that, but there is a huge gap between where we are now and a formal opt-out system, in encouraging patients and talking to them about what can be done. I am sure that we can make steps forward, and my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary will do that.

Treatment of Detainees

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I thank the Prime Minister for acknowledging dimensions of this issue that the previous Government either denied or dithered about. Does he also accept, however, that not all of us can join in the canonisation of the security services, because many of us believe that they were complicit in some of worst crimes carried out by both loyalists and republicans in Northern Ireland? Can the Prime Minister address the peculiar sequence that now seems to be in front of us: mediation, compensation, then investigation by this inquiry—and then, presumably, adjudication and publication thereafter? Might that not be a self-frustrating sequence?

[The Prime Minister]

I hope that it is not. We have spent some time looking at this issue, trying to find the right way to deal with it, and we think that mediation, followed by the judge-led inquiry, is the right way to get to the bottom of it. On the hon. Gentleman’s point about the security services, I would ask him to take a wide view and look across the years, across the history and across what the security services do today—not just in Northern Ireland but right across our world—to help keep people in this country, and indeed in this House, safe. I think we should end on the note of paying tribute to those brave men and women—they are never known about, and some of them die in this cause and cannot be mourned properly by their families—and of thanking them for what they do on our behalf.

Saville Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Mark Durkan

Tuesday 15th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

May I thank the Prime Minister for his clear statement? From talking to representatives of the families a short while ago, I know that they would want to be associated with those thanks.

This is a day of huge moment and deep emotion in Derry. The people of my city did not just live through Bloody Sunday; they have lived with it since. Does the Prime Minister agree that this is a day to receive and reflect on the clear verdicts of Saville, and not to pass party verdicts on Saville?

The key verdicts are:

“despite the contrary evidence given by soldiers, we have concluded that none of them fired in response to attacks or threatened attacks by nail or petrol bombers. No one threw or threatened to throw a nail or petrol bomb at the soldiers on Bloody Sunday”.

A further verdict is:

“none of the casualties…was posing any threat of causing death or serious injury.”

Of course, there is also the verdict that

“the British Army fired the first shots, these were not justified and none of the subsequent shots that killed or wounded”

anyone on Bloody Sunday “was justified.” In rejecting so much of the soldiers’ submissions and false accounts, the report highlights where victims were shot in the back or while crawling on the ground, or shot again when already wounded on the ground.

Will the Prime Minister confirm that each and every one of the victims—Bernard McGuigan, 41; Gerald Donaghey, 17; Hugh Gilmour, 17; John Duddy, 17; Gerard McKinney, 34; James Wray, 22; John Young, 17; Kevin McElhinney, 17; Michael Kelly, 17; Michael McDaid, 20; Patrick Doherty, 31; William McKinney, 27; William Nash, 19; and John Johnston, 59—are all absolutely and totally exonerated by today’s report, as are all the wounded? These men were cut down when they marched for justice on their own streets. On that civil rights march, they were protesting against internment without trial, but not only were their lives taken, but their innocent memory was then interned without truth by the travesty of the Widgery tribunal. Will the Prime Minister confirm clearly that the Widgery findings are now repudiated and binned, and that they should not be relied on by anyone as giving any verdict on that day?

Sadly, only one parent of the victims has survived to see this day and hear the Prime Minister’s open and full apology on the back of this important report. Lawrence McElhinney epitomises the dignity and determination of all the families who have struggled and strived to exonerate their loved ones and have the truth proclaimed.

Seamus Heaney reflected the numbing shock of Bloody Sunday and its spur to the quest for justice for not only families but a city when he wrote:

“My heart besieged by anger, my mind a gap of danger,

I walked among their old haunts, the home ground where they bled;

And in the dirt lay justice, like an acorn in the winter

Till its oak would sprout in Derry where the thirteen men lay dead.”

The Bloody Sunday monument on Rossville street proclaims:

“Their epitaph is in the continuing struggle for democracy”.

If today, as I sincerely hope it does, offers a healing of history in Derry and Ireland, may we pray that it also speaks hope to those in other parts of the world who are burdened by injustice, conflict and the transgressions of unaccountable power?

The Prime Minister’s welcome statement and the statement that will be made by the families on the steps of the Guildhall will be the most significant records of this day on the back of the report that has been published. However, perhaps the most important and poignant words from today will not be heard here or on the airwaves. Relatives will stand at the graves of victims and their parents to tell of a travesty finally arrested, of innocence vindicated and of promises kept, and as they do so, they can invoke the civil rights anthem when they say, “We have overcome. We have overcome this day.”

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman spoke with great power and great emotion on behalf of his constituents and his city, and I would like to pay tribute to the way in which he did that, and to the service that he has given to them. He spoke about the healing of history, and I hope and believe that he will be right. I know that he represents many of the families who lost loved ones that day, and he has always fought for them in a way that is honourable and right, and has always, in spite of all the difficulties, stood up for the peace process and for peaceful means.

To answer the hon. Gentleman’s specific questions, he is right that the Widgery report is now fully superseded by the Saville report; this is the report with the facts, the details and the full explanation of what happened, and it should be accepted as such. In terms of the people who were killed on that day, they were innocent of anything that justified them being shot; that is quite clear from the report. Let me read it again:

“none of the casualties was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury, or indeed was doing anything else that could on any view justify their shooting.”

That is what Saville has found. I hope that that is some comfort to the families, and to the people in Londonderry who have suffered for so many years over the issue, and that, as the hon. Gentleman says, we can now draw a line, look to the future and build Northern Ireland as a prosperous part of the United Kingdom.