European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 23rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, just in case it is the last time I look at the right hon. Gentleman across the Floor of the House of Commons and he does not catch the Speaker’s eye at the last Prime Minister’s questions on Wednesday, may I pay tribute to him for all the work that he has done in government and in opposition, including in some very senior roles at some very difficult times for this country? The one pledge I make him is that if he continues to live where he does, his constituency MP will always stand up for him in this House of Commons and make sure that he receives a premium service.

The two points that the right hon. Gentleman makes about Israel are right and they are points that I will be happy to make. They are linked: if there is no two-state solution, the situation ends up moving towards a one-state solution, which I think will be disastrous for the Jewish people in Israel, so I really do believe in the two-state solution. We are very much opposed to the settlement building that has taken place. We have been very clear about that and will continue to be clear about that. It makes a two-state solution more difficult and that, in turn, will make Israel less stable, rather than more stable.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

In his Bloomberg speech the Prime Minister set out five core principles for a 21st-century EU. If he has had a chance to look at the current European Commission work programme, he will have seen that, contrary to what the Leader of the Opposition has just said, there has now been significant movement towards these principles, particularly on migration and the single market. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we do not have to demand a renegotiation before a referendum? Europe is already offering us one.

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is right. It is because we have been clear about the things that need to change that the European Commission is already looking at the sorts of changes that could be made. This is an organisation that responds not simply to pressure, but to political realities, so we have to make sure that the political reality after the next election is someone walking into the Berlaymont building or the European Council building and demanding change, rather than someone wandering in and just saying, “Relax—there’s nothing you need to do. We don’t have to have a referendum. We don’t need a renegotiation. One day we’ll join the single currency.” All the pressure would be off and, yes, some in Brussels would breathe a sigh of relief, because it would be business as usual with Labour and probably the Scottish National party too.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have a lot of sympathy with what the right hon. Gentleman says. My argument was that you could not include one minor party without another—obviously I was referring specifically to the Greens on that occasion, but now, with it having been decided to include Plaid Cymru and the Scottish National party, there does seem to be a difficulty in not addressing the question of the DUP. Certainly my party stands in every part of the United Kingdom, so I do think that is important, but I am sure his case will be taken seriously.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Q4. Following the Chancellor’s significant commitment to London last week to create half a million jobs, build 100,000 new homes and invest £10 billion in transport infrastructure, does the Prime Minister agree that this is not just a long-term economic plan for London but, in stark contrast to other parties, which only offer London a mansion tax, is a commitment to make London the greatest capital city on earth?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is correct, because this plan for London is about being incredibly ambitious and trying to outpace the growth of New York, adding £6.4 billion to the London economy by 2030. That is what we are trying to do to see a higher growth rate. We have created something like half a million extra jobs in London since the election, and we need to keep on with that progress. As the OECD said yesterday:

“The UK is an actual textbook case, or is fast becoming, of best practice of how good labour market and of how good product market reform can support growth and job creation…my main message to you today is well done. Well done so far…But finish the job.”

It said, “You have a long-term economic plan, but you need to stick with it.” That is the view of the OECD, and that, I believe, should be backed by everyone in our country.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 23rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Russia is ignoring all the rules of the international community. The Russians are unreliable and cannot be trusted. Does my right hon. Friend feel that the diplomatic process has been exhausted? If the answer to that is yes, will he confirm that financial sanctions will be not only extended and deepened, but broadened to cover not just individuals, but the country as a whole?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not think one should ever say that the diplomatic process is exhausted, because it always makes sense to talk about these matters, but that has to be backed by consequences when diplomatic efforts do not work out. So yes, I agree that we need to see more sanctions if the Russian attitude continues. There is a strong case for bringing forward the renewal of the sanctions, which otherwise would happen later in the year. My right hon. Friend makes a broader point, which is that if anyone thinks that this is an aberration on the part of Russia and if only we understood a little more and listened a little bit harder it would all be fine, we can now see that what happened in Georgia and Transnistria and what is happening in Ukraine is part of a pattern, and the only language that Russia will understand is very tough sanctions and continued pressure from Europe and the US, making our economic weight felt.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is vital that cancer patients get urgent treatment. Under this Government, half a million more people are getting referred for cancer treatment. That is why cancer survival rates are going up. Let me give the hon. Gentleman the figures for his own hospital area: 96.8% of patients with suspected cancer are being seen by a specialist within two weeks, which is an improvement on 2010; 100% of patients diagnosed with cancer are beginning treatment within 31 days, which is an improvement on 2010; and 94.8% of patients are beginning cancer treatment within 62 days of a GP referral, which again is an improvement on 2010. The reason we have been able to make those improvements is that we put resources into the NHS when the Labour party told us that that was irresponsible. We have also got rid of the bureaucracy in the NHS in England, which is why it is performing better than the NHS in Wales.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I share the Prime Minister’s disappointment over the delay to the Chilcot report, particularly given that the issue in 2009 was whether it would be published in time for the 2010 election, let alone the 2015 election. Does the Prime Minister agree that the invitation of the Foreign Affairs Committee to Sir John Chilcot to give evidence to us, not to point the finger of blame, but to give him a chance to explain the reasons for the delay, should be accepted to ensure that this situation never happens again?

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously, my view is that when people are asked to appear in front of a Select Committee, and when they are public servants, they should try to meet that obligation. How that is processed is a matter for the House and my right hon. Friend’s Committee. The most important thing right now for Chilcot and his team is to get the report ready and ensure it can be published as soon as possible after the election.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 27th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is very noisy today, Mr Speaker—a bit like a meeting of the Scottish Labour party.

Let me answer all the right hon. Gentleman’s questions. On climate change, he asked specifically what we would now do to push China and America to make bigger concessions. I think that the European Union now has the opportunity to give a real lead, because we have set out the major steps that we are prepared to take, with a reduction of at least 40% in carbon emissions.

On Ebola, the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that we need not only money from other European countries—we got that at the weekend—but the commitment that they will help their health staff to travel to west Africa. There is now a clearing house for medevac arrangements, negotiated by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, which I think will make a real difference.

On Afghanistan, I welcome the support that the right hon. Gentleman has given. I think that it is good that there is cross-party support for the backing that the Afghan Government should know they will get from Britain in terms of aid and paying for the Afghan national security forces.

On the budget, let me say this to the right hon. Gentleman: the point is that we cannot know how much we are liable to pay until the European Commission produces the figures for every country in Europe. That information was not available weeks ago or months ago; it was discussed at a meeting in Brussels only on Friday. That is why Labour left the country in such a mess: they do not know the difference between gross contributions and net contributions. That is the problem.

Basically, the right hon. Gentleman’s case comes down to two complaints. The first is that somehow we are giving too much money to Brussels. That is from a party that gave away the British rebate and paid an extra £2 billion a year as a matter of official Government policy. The second complaint—we heard it from the shadow Chancellor—is that somehow under this Government the Chancellor and the Prime Minister do not properly communicate with each other. I have to say that we see in front of us the authors of the most dysfunctional Government in British history. The Prime Minister in that Government did not even know what was in the Budget the day before it was brought to the House of Commons. The idea that they should lecture us on how a Government communicate must be one of the most ridiculous ever brought before the House. With the shambles in the Scottish Labour party, we learnt one thing this weekend: even his own party does not see him as a leader.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

People need a reason to believe that the EU is good for them, and late demands for €2 billion with six weeks to pay do not help, especially when the calculations include earnings from prostitution and drugs, none of which ends up in the Treasury. Is it any wonder that voters have their doubts about the merits of membership of the European Union?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. For those of us who want to argue that the European Union is capable of reform, this was not a good development. It is important to understand that these are provisional estimates and that EUROSTAT is still travelling to every country to work out what the numbers actually are. There are important challenges to be made. But clearly the idea of a bill being presented in that way, with so little time to pay, is not acceptable.

NATO Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 8th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his response. He was right to say that this was the most important NATO conference for a generation. That is because we face multiple challenges—in Europe and Ukraine, with ISIL and the other threats around our very dangerous world. Let me take his questions in turn.

On Ukraine, the mood of the NATO meeting and the meeting I chaired with the Ukrainian President was that there should be no easing of the pressure on Russia. With regard to what NATO is doing for Ukraine, there is some important defence capability building being done on things such as command and control and ensuring that the Ukrainian army is properly managed. There is also support in the form of non-lethal equipment such as body armour and other facilities that countries are giving. It is important that we do not measure the NATO commitment to Ukraine through military support for war-fighting capabilities. The real measure of support is the EU and US approach on sanctions, which have been ratcheted up. As I have said in the House before, it is important that we keep up the pressure in that regard.

As for the new spearhead force, different countries will be contributing and Britain has got out ahead by making clear the nature of our commitment through the brigade headquarters and the battalion. I am sure that others will come forward with their contributions, but the right hon. Gentleman is right that the implementation of the NATO agenda will now be vital.

On the question of combating ISIL, I agree absolutely with what the right hon. Gentleman says about the need for an inclusive Government in Iraq. That is supposed to be being put in place this week. It has already taken time and it is a complex undertaking, but it is absolutely vital. I would argue that without that, it is very difficult to take the further steps that need to be taken, so it is vital that it is put in place.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about regional support. Jordan, as a partner nation of NATO, was at the conference and made a very strong statement about its support for squeezing ISIL. He asked whether NATO countries are properly pooling their resources, and this is where the 20% pledge on new equipment is so vital. When new equipment is commissioned, it should be properly interoperable between NATO countries, and increasingly it is.

On Afghanistan, the right hon. Gentleman is right to say that the way to secure our legacy in Afghanistan is to ensure that there is a proper political settlement. A lot of pressure is being put on Dr Abdullah Abdullah and Dr Ghani to bury their differences and form a Government together. They have promised to do that, but we need to see it happen. The right hon. Gentleman asked about the contribution that Britain will make to the NATO forces. Our principal contribution post the end of 2014 will be the officer training academy that President Karzai specifically asked for and that we are providing. That should put our contribution of troops for that facility into the low hundreds. Some other countries, most notably the United States but also Germany and some others, will have more NATO troops on the ground, as it were.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about the bilateral security agreement; both candidates have said that they will sign it, and I would expect it to be signed. As for his general point, what is required in Afghanistan, as in Iraq, is a combination of all the assets we have at our disposal. On occasion, that will include military assets, but the importance of politics cannot be underestimated. The future of Afghanistan will best be secured by an inclusive Afghan Government and the future of Iraq will best be delivered if there is an inclusive Iraqi Government.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Never has there been a time when decision makers have been faced with so many key decisions, and I congratulate the Prime Minister and his colleagues on an excellent summit in Wales. However, as they were meeting, yet another front was opening up, with reports of militia activity on the Russia-Estonia border. Does the Prime Minister agree that Estonia is a red line? Can he assure me that if there are any incursions, the UK and NATO will treat them with the most serious attitude conceivable?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks and I can absolutely give him that assurance. It was important that one of the first things that needed to happen at the conference was for NATO to be very clear about the article 5 commitment that all members of NATO are subject to collective defence, Estonia included. It is important that that message goes out and that we should not only have the readiness action plan and the new spearhead force but start to see more NATO exercises, so that when Russians look at Estonia—or Latvia or Lithuania—they see different nationalities involved in their defence, not just Estonians. That is vital and yes, it is a red line.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

On the right hon. Gentleman’s point about a fuller debate, we are looking at that: the House authorities are looking at it and I think it would be extremely worth while if time can be found. I very much agree with the tenor of what he says, which is that we should be looking to ask how we can best help those on the ground—the Iraqi Government, the Kurdish forces—who are doing their best to prevent humanitarian catastrophes and to make sure that Islamic State is properly addressed in Iraq. We should be asking how we can help, rather than thinking the west can somehow lead and overtake an intervention, but I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that there should be no question of British combat troops on the ground.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I very much agree with the Prime Minister over the nature of the extremist threat we face, but during the summer recess there have been repeated calls for a coalition of the willing. He will have seen reports that Egypt and the United Arab Emirates carried out air attacks on the militia in Libya. Is there any sign that Arab states and the west will join together militarily to co-operate in combating ISIS?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend’s contribution is along the same lines as that of the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain): that we should be there to help those on the ground who want to get the right outcome, rather than thinking that we can magic a solution on our own. When we look at the attitude of the Jordanians and others, we see that they recognise the huge threat that Islamic State poses to them, but it also threatens us. Therefore, I think our approach should be about helping the Kurds, helping the Jordanians, helping the Iraqi Government—helping all those who, working together, can address this threat.

Ukraine (Flight MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

What is certainly a war crime is launching unprovoked missile attacks on to the sovereign territory of another country—I think we should be very clear about that. It is absolutely a crime against international law and we should be very clear about it. But we should be equally clear, as we are, that Israel, in acting in self-defence, must do so within international law.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

In Gaza, much has been made of what is and is not “proportionate”. The argument is being made that it should be an eye for an eye, but in international law the correct definition is that the response should be proportionate “to the threat”. Does my right hon. Friend agree that Israel has no alternative but to go to find who is firing the missiles at it and to stop them?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend, with his experience as Chair of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, is right to quote that important definition of international law—that is the correct position. That is why Israel, understandably, feels under pressure to try to stop the missile attacks that have brought this situation about.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously, decisions are for individual trusts and individual clinical commissioning groups, but we made two important decisions as a Government: to fund the NHS with extra money, £12.7 billion in this Parliament; and to abolish the bureaucracy that built up under Labour, with 17,000 fewer bureaucrats. Both those decisions were opposed by the Labour party, but we can see 7,000 more doctors, 4,000 more nurses, more patients treated and an NHS that is doing well.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

In the recent case of Nicklinson, on the question of assisted dying, Lord Neuberger, President of the Supreme Court, said that Parliament now had the opportunity to consider reforming the law in the knowledge that if Parliament does not act, the courts may. That could raise serious constitutional issues. Does the Prime Minister agree that, whatever one’s views on the subject, the other place is to be commended for having a debate, but what the public really want is a debate in this House?

[The Prime Minister]

It is good that a debate is being held. I am sure it will be worth while reading the report of the debate that will take place on Friday in the other place. I am very happy for a debate to be held here, and there are opportunities for Back Benchers to secure debates in the Chamber. I am sure that the new Leader of the House of Commons—I am sure we all want to welcome him to his place—will be listening carefully to that request. I myself am not convinced that further steps need to be taken. I worry about legalising euthanasia because people might be pushed into things that they do not actually want for themselves, but by all means let us have the debate.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It advances Britain’s interests if people know that a British Prime Minister and a British Government will set out a principle and stick to it. The problem all too often under the Labour Government was that they did not stick to their principle. That is why they gave away part of our rebate, they caved in on the budget year after year, and they signed up to eurozone bail-outs. If they had stuck to their principles, they might have been more respected.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Much has been made of so-called divisions inside the Conservative party over this issue, but does the Prime Minister agree that the opposite is true? As a one-nation Tory who believes in our membership of the European Union, I was proud of the way he stood up for British interests last week. Does he agree that the Socialist Group’s candidate for the job— and, by implication, the Labour party’s—a Mr Martin Schulz, makes Mr Juncker look like an arch Eurosceptic?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. As I say, this process began because one after the other the European political parties decided to pick a leading candidate—a so-called Spitzenkandidat —for the job.

G7

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. The reason I believe the G7 is going to have continued relevance in the years ahead is that it is a chance for some of the world’s biggest democracies, and largest economies, who are like-minded to have a very frank and open conversation. It is much less about communiqués and reading out speeches and more about a discussion about how we approach really complicated and difficult issues, whether it is the rise of Islamist extremism or how to make sure that our relations with China work in our mutual interest, and so on. I hope that we can keep going with these meetings. The G20 is able to address the broader world economy and to bring together the BRIC countries with some of the older western democracies.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

My main objection to the nomination of Mr Juncker is that it is a stitch-up and a power grab by the European Parliament, and the Prime Minister is absolutely right to have no part of it.

In Syria, against a backdrop of indiscriminate killing, delays in removing chemical stockpiles, contempt for UN resolution 2118, and the ongoing use of chemicals such as chlorine, the United States is now arming the rebels. Is it not time that we reconsidered our position on this?

[The Prime Minister]

First, on Syria, I think we are doing the right thing, which is that we are working with the legitimate opposition—we are giving them support and giving them help, but we draw up short of lethal equipment. But there is plenty we can do to help, to train, to advise and to assist, alongside the Americans, that will make a difference and bolster those voices of democracy and freedom for the Syrian people.

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about the so-called power grab. It is the principle we should be focused on, because the rules are clear. Through the European Council, the nation states of Europe, democratically elected, come together and propose someone to head the Commission. That is how it is meant to work. If we were not to oppose what is happening, we would be accepting for ever in future that there was going to be some sort of elected president of the European Commission, even though many countries would not be taking part in that election. It is interesting that the European People’s party stood in Britain and—I checked the figures—got 0.18% of the vote. [Interruption.] I heard that—steady on! That is not a mandate. So it is a very important principle that Britain continues its opposition.

European Council and Nuclear Security Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. Building the capabilities of NATO is going to be an important theme of the summit, but NATO is holding its normal regular meetings to discuss how to respond properly to what is happening, and we have added to that by the offer that we have made to the Baltic states.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

The Prime Minister has made it quite clear that he considers that Russia’s behaviour and breaches of international law are a wake-up call to the west, but is it not time to reassess whether our capacity matches our aims and objectives? For example, with difficult situations in Iran, Syria, north Africa and now Ukraine, does he think it right that the Foreign Office budget is less than we spend on the winter fuel allowance?

[The Prime Minister]

I think we do a huge amount with the Foreign Office budget, if you look at what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been able to squeeze out of the Treasury. He is opening embassies across south-east Asia and parts of Africa. He has reopened the foreign language school of the Foreign Office, and that is making a real difference. It is the capacity of what we are able to do that matters most of all. In terms of the defence reviews and strategic reviews we have carried out, I repeat what I said at Prime Minister’s questions, which is that if we make difficult decisions—for instance, about the number of battle tanks in Europe and the moving of forces back from Germany to Britain—and we make some long-term savings, we can then invest in the sorts of capabilities that we will need. Of course, those capabilities, as my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces reminds me, include a brand-new aircraft carrier coming very soon.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 10th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think that I answered that question pretty comprehensively in response to my right hon. Friend the Father of the House. Of course, any country that wants to can hold a referendum under its constitution—that is what constitutions are able to deliver—but it has to be fair and legal. It is quite clear—everybody agrees, except the Russians—that this referendum is illegitimate, illegal and will not be recognised by the international community.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

With the so-called referendum due to be held on Sunday, time is not on our side. Now that Russia is far more integrated into the world economy, the most effective short-term pressure that can be applied is financial and economic, but we should not be looking just at national assets. Does the Prime Minister agree that Russian banks and corporations that are contemplating taking over Ukrainian assets in Crimea should be warned that if they go down that road, they will be denied access to western financial institutions?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. The three-phased approach sets out that if there are further Russian moves on eastern Ukraine or to further destabilise Ukraine, we as the European Union would be prepared to bring forward a range of economic and other sanctions which, as it states in the European Council conclusions, would cover a broad range of areas. Nothing is off the table. Of course, these things are never easy for democracies to carry out. It was pointed out at the meeting that some countries might suffer more with energy sanctions, some with financial sanctions, and some more with defence sanctions. As the European Union, and as member states, we must consider what steps would be necessary to send a clear message to Russia. My right hon. Friend’s point is a good one.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 5 February.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Sir Richard Ottaway]

London is a 24/7 global city, and the commercial centre of the western world. Given that the economy is growing and unemployment is falling, does the Prime Minister agree that the efforts of the RMT to bring London to a halt by means of a tube strike is nothing short of economic vandalism?

[The Prime Minister]

I entirely agree with my right hon. Friend. There is absolutely no justification for a strike. We need a modernised tube line working for the millions of Londoners who use it every day. The fact is that only 3% of transactions now involve ticket offices, so it makes sense to have fewer people in those offices, but more people on the platforms and in the stations.

I unreservedly condemn this strike. When the shadow Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), was asked to do so today, he said that it was a matter for the union, so I hope that the Leader of the Opposition will stand up and condemn it unreservedly now.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 9th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s question. I think it is right for the British Prime Minister to go to the Commonwealth conference because we are big believers in the Commonwealth and in making that organisation work well and, indeed, work for us. But I think it is right that in going to the Commonwealth conference, we should not hold back from being very clear about those aspects of the human rights record in Sri Lanka that we are not happy with. If the hon. Gentleman gives me the details of that case, I will make sure that, along with other cases and along with other arguments, those points are properly made. Of course, those are points that we cannot make if we do not go.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Q13. Will the Prime Minister welcome the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 2013, which came into force last week? It has the support of the Church, extra taxes will boost the Treasury revenues, and it will make the trains run on time. Can he say that about any other piece of legislation?

[The Prime Minister]

First, may I say what pleasure it gives me to refer to the hon. Gentleman as my right hon. Friend—an honour he fully deserves? I welcome the effect of the Scrap Metal Dealers Act, which has helped to bring revenue into the Treasury. It is also helping to deal with this scourge, which is a crime that we have seen grow in recent years, particularly because of the growth in the price of metals. The lead off the Witney church roof was stolen recently, and I know that the Act will help to make sure that that does not happen again.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 9th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. For many years, Luxembourg and Austria have held up progress on this issue. They have often tried to get round that by pointing to the overseas territories and Crown dependencies of the UK, which have now put their house in order, so we can turn back to Austria and Luxembourg. They are under a huge amount of pressure, because the agenda of tax and transparency is growing fast. They have made some moves in the European Union, but we need to do more.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

The Russians have been stalling for some time on Geneva II peace talks. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is revealing that faced with the threat of military action, Russia is now calling for diplomatic negotiations? Far more importantly, the BBC is reporting that the Russians are saying that the Syrians are now prepared to attend such talks. Can he confirm the accuracy of that report?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right that minds have become much more focused in recent months. There is an argument, which the Russians make, that the Syrian regime would be content to attend talks, but it is very important that we have some things set out about what those talks aim to achieve. In order to have proper transition, there is a need to know what we are going to get out of those talks. We need to know who is going to take part and who could be part of a transitional Government before those talks begin. Those issues are as important as an in-principle agreement to turn up.

Afghanistan and EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I quite agree with the Prime Minister that the correct message to the Taliban is that stability is best achieved not through violence, but through negotiations. Further to questions from the Leader of the Opposition, will my right hon. Friend say what the prospects for the talks are? To what extent are regional players going to be involved, and will Pakistan be a part of that regional settlement?

[The Prime Minister]

I think the overall prospects for talks between the Taliban and the High Peace Council—the right body in Afghanistan to hold these talks—are good. We have to recognise, however, that the way in which the Doha office was established, when it advertised itself as the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan, has caused a setback, and that is rightly deeply unpopular in Afghanistan. As I discussed with President Karzai, the sense is that it is in the interests of Afghanistan for all Afghans to see a Government and a future in which they can have confidence and for the Taliban to lay down their arms and stop fighting. That is in their interests, so although there has been a setback, the underlying logic of what needs to happen is still there.

G8

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

On the Taliban, I have said many times that I welcome a political process. It is worth noting that the Taliban said in their statement that they wanted an Afghanistan that no longer caused instability, death or trouble in other countries. That is significant.

On hunger, the hon. Lady is absolutely right that it is not enough for us just to pass resolutions, or for this country alone to commit to aid programmes. We must engage other countries, which will do a lot of the heavy lifting in dealing with malnutrition. I am confident that, having held our summit at the Olympics last year, with the sort of top-up this year and the Brazilians co-chairing another summit at the Olympic games there, we have achieved a lot in terms of getting other countries to pledge action on hunger.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I commend the Prime Minister and the G8 for addressing the key challenges of the day. On Syria, the situation is becoming increasingly complex as the rebels become increasingly fragmented. Does he agree that the solution lies in a negotiated settlement, but—it is an important “but”—that cannot be achieved without him firmly setting out where his red lines lie?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will tell the hon. Gentleman what this Government have done. We have taken 2 million of the lowest-paid people out of income tax altogether. We have delivered a tax cut for 24 million people. We have frozen the fuel duty. We are freezing the council tax up and down the country, and if people want to make an impact, they should vote Conservative on 2 May to make sure they keep their council tax down.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

May I congratulate the Prime Minister on his support for the exhibition on modern slavery in the Upper Waiting Hall? Two hundred years after it was abolished, slavery—modern slavery—continues throughout the United Kingdom. It is about the buying and selling of people, and it is the second most lucrative crime in the world. Can he confirm that his Government will continue to engage with this issue?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful for what my hon. Friend says. This is an immensely serious issue and I pay tribute to the all-party group in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. I also pay tribute to Anthony Steen, who has campaigned long and hard on this issue. Anyone who thinks that slavery was effectively abolished in 1807 has got another think coming. I would urge Members, if they have not seen this excellent exhibition in that chamber in the House of Commons, to go and see it, and see all the different ways that people can be trapped into slavery. It is notable that it is not just people who are being trafficked from eastern Europe or elsewhere. There are examples of slavery involving British citizens in this country being put into forced labour. It is an excellent exhibition and there is more for the Government to do.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I would be delighted to. First, we have to remember that the answer to the question, “Why is it that the European Parliament has any say over this budget at all?” is the Lisbon treaty, which the right hon. Gentleman’s party, in government, passed. Having said that, and given that we have to try to ensure that there is a deal, and it is better to have a deal than no deal, it is right to say to the Parliament, “It is important you can look at flexibilities between different years—between different budget headings—to try to ensure that spending is planned properly,” but I was very specific, and it was very specifically said at the Council, that this flexibility cannot result in the €908.4 billion ceiling being increased. That cannot go up. Money can be moved around to plan spending more effectively, although, of course, all that has to come back to the Council to be agreed, but the €908.4 billion, in my view, is inviolable.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

At a time when the democratic link between the EU and the people of the EU is wafer thin, does the Prime Minister agree that any attempt by the European Parliament to ratify the agreement by secret ballot should and would be treated with contempt?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. A secret ballot in a Parliament is an extraordinary concept. MPs and MEPs should vote transparently so that their constituents can hold them to account. They have to account not only to their electorates but to their countries, which will suffer if a deal is not passed through.

Algeria

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 21st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the key will be the peoples of those countries rejecting Islamic extremism and violence and opting instead for having a job and a voice in a secure country. He is right about that, but, as we were discussing earlier, one of the roles that we can play is in recognising that we have to try to split the terrorist groups from the other groups with which they can become affiliated. In the case of Mali, for example, there is a combination of terrorist groups and Tuareg tribes. We should be trying to split up those alliances, rather than reinforcing them through our actions. I do not accept that the right thing to do is in any way to turn our back on the world. Britain is an open, engaged country and our interests are threatened in those countries. The idea that if we did less or did nothing we would somehow be safer is wrong.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

In the last decade, the population of Mali has grown by 60%, and it is forecast to grow by 400% by 2050. That leaves millions of young men and women without any reasonable expectation of employment—a sure prescription for social violence, fuelling instability in the region. Does the Prime Minister agree that if there were ever a role for DFID funding, it would be to address the economic wasteland that is the Sahel?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Our aid is at work in Mali. UK aid is currently helping 200,000 people in Mali through the provision of food, emergency health and medicine, and we are always one of the first to step forward and help, and this is an example of that. I know our aid budget is controversial, but if we are to put together these broken and fragile states, I would say yes, there is a role for security; yes, there is a role for diplomacy and politics; but there is also a role for aid and economic assistance.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me wish the hon. Gentleman a happy Christmas. He is a good example of how there is not always a commonality of opinion within a party, let alone between two different parties.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

The events of the past few months have confirmed that Britain has a number of allies in Europe and is not alone, but the case for Europe is drifting. Will the Prime Minister take an early opportunity to get on the front foot and set out his agenda before others fill the vacuum?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to do that. My hon. Friend is right that we have allies in Europe. I note that in this morning’s German newspapers, the leader of the Social Democrats—Labour’s sister party—has accused me of having a Faustian pact with the German Chancellor, so there we have it. We have a very clear agenda: we have been pushing the single market, pushing for the patent court, pushing for the free trade deals, pushing for deregulation, and on every single one of those measures we have made some big progress this year in Europe.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Actually, I think that the hon. Gentleman is wrong about that. The countries on the list that I read out are our classic allies that we put together in almost every year’s budget negotiations to try to ensure a reasonable outcome. The problem is that annual budgets are decided on a qualified majority basis, so we can be outvoted. The multi-annual financial framework is subject to unanimity, so we can put our case vigorously. The point that I made in my statement is that if we do not achieve a new framework, we will need even more than today to keep the tough budget discipline together for the annual budget negotiations that follow.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Far from being isolated, I congratulate my right hon. Friend on consolidating the alliance with Germany, Sweden, Holland and Denmark. Are there any signs that that new grouping will work with us on further reforms and, in particular, on reform of the single market?

[The Prime Minister]

The countries on the list that I read out tend to be fairly strong allies on much of the single market agenda. We are also joined in our support of the single market by the Italians and, to an extent, with the Spanish now that Mariano Rajoy is Prime Minister. We need to try to win the argument with large net contributors, such as Italy, that the best way to protect the interests of their taxpayers is to restrain the overall budget, rather than simply to measure their receipts under the CAP or the cohesion policy.

G20 Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 25th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

May I welcome the Prime Minister’s attack on protectionism and support for free trade, particularly the US-EU trade agreement timetable? Does he agree that these are the two largest trading blocs in the world, and together will create an enormous bloc that will have a profound effect on growth and trade across the world?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right to raise this issue—it is half the world’s GDP. There are a huge number of difficulties in getting these talks properly under way; there will be concerns about farm subsidies and about hidden protectionism on both sides. But the pressure from European member states on the European Commission—and, indeed, from the Commission itself—and, I believe, from business in the US on the American President, is to get a deal done, because in the end, it would be very good for all of us.

G8 and NATO Summits

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. This is a difficult issue to get right. We are rightly discussing two problems: the need for growth, and the need for financial stability and ensuring we are safe, with the headwinds of a potential eurozone storm approaching. I think the best approach is to work hand in glove with the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority to get that balance right. That is what the Government will do.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on his stamina, as I calculate that by this evening he will have done three summits in two continents in five days. I reiterate the points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames) and the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth). We have to impress on NATO members that the conclusion of the Afghanistan campaign is no justification for cutting defence budgets. It is essential to have a full-blooded review of NATO strategy, with a full-blooded commitment from all its members.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks about my summitry. By the end of tonight, that will be enough summits for quite some time, although the G20 will soon catch up on us. What he says about NATO is right. We need reviews from all NATO countries, which need to go through their budgets and work out what is necessary for national defence. We need to ask what more we can all do to make sure that NATO has the capacities it needs for the future.

Informal European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me explain again, because I know the hon. Gentleman takes great interest in European affairs. The point is that it is in our interest that these eurozone countries get on with the job they need to do. It is absolutely important that they stick to the fiscal union and do not encroach on the single market. Clearly, there are uses for the institutions they have set out in this treaty, some of which are legal under existing EU law and some of which are highly questionable. We are going to use that leverage and that legal position to make them stick to the position of sticking to the fiscal union. That is the most sensible thing to do, and I would have thought that, with all his experience in European politics, he understood that.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

May I welcome the Prime Minister’s confirmation that there is no provision in the treaty that allows the single market to be undermined? However, he will be aware that the President of France has been driven to impose a financial transaction tax on France alone. Does he agree that the dismay with which that was met by the financial services sector in Paris illustrates exactly why such a tax is a bad idea?

[The Prime Minister]

One does not need to look any further than the European Commission itself, which actually carried out an investigation into a financial transactions tax and found that it could cost 500,000 jobs in the European Union. That is why the whole idea of pursuing this at the moment is completely wrong. Of course, it would be different if the whole world was going to accept a financial transactions tax, but that is extremely unlikely to happen. That is why I do not think it is the right approach. But let us be clear: in this country, we do get our financial services to make a proper contribution. For instance, we have stamp duty on share transactions, which actually raises considerably more than the French are planning to raise with their early foray into this area.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his kind remarks. I have long believed, and still believe, that the balance of powers between Britain and Europe is not right, and I would like some of those powers returned. As Prime Minister, I specifically got the bail-out power back through my first negotiations on the European stability mechanism treaty. In the latest negotiations, we prevented a treaty from going ahead at the level of 27 because there were not adequate safeguards. Frankly, I think that we will see now a period of great change in Europe. No one quite knows where this new organisation outside the European treaties will go, what powers it will seek and how it will act. Neither does anyone know exactly how the eurozone will develop. My job in government is to protect and defend the national interest at all times, and that is what I will continue to do.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

As someone who is not known for his hostility to the European Union, I fully support the Prime Minister for what was an inevitable decision. However, the relationship between the fiscal compact of the 26 and the European Union remains uncertain. In particular, the fiscal compact reads:

“The objective remains to incorporate these provisions into the treaties of the Union as soon as possible.”

In the light of that, does he agree that the battle for Britain’s interest still has a long way to go?

[The Prime Minister]

The other EU countries recognise that going ahead at less than 27 has its disadvantages: they do not have the power and authority of the European institutions fully behind them and it will make some of the things that they want to do more difficult. None the less, we have set out our position. We believe that those safeguards are necessary, and I will not, and have not, changed my mind about that. I want to make this point one more time because I am not sure that everyone has taken it fully onboard: the disadvantage for those countries that will have a treaty outside the EU is that it means that nothing can be done in that treaty that cuts across the EU treaties or the legislation adopted under them. That is an important safeguard, given that we could not get the safeguard within the EU treaties.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman asks for a change of course. Let me just say to him what the leading economic organisations in our country and, indeed, across the world say about that issue. The IMF says this:

“'Is there a justification for a shift in the policy mix', we think the answer is no.”

Let us listen to the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King:

“There has to be a Plan A”—

[Interruption.] The Leader of the Opposition says that he would not listen to him; it was Labour who appointed him.

“There has to be a Plan A…this country needs a fiscal consolidation starting from its largest peacetime budget…ever”.

Who was it who gave us that peacetime budget? The Labour party. Let us listen to the CBI, the leading business organisation in this country:

“Priorities for the next 12 months: Stick closely to the existing credible plan”.

That is what the experts say; that is what business says; that is what the Bank of England says. Would you listen to them or would you listen to the people who got us into this mess in the first place?

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Q2. Returning to next week’s public sector strikes— [Interruption.] They don’t like it up 'em, do they? Is the Prime Minister aware that, of the three largest unions, the turnouts in the strike ballot were 32%, 31% and 25% respectively? Does my right hon. Friend agree that any striker has the right to strike if he so wishes, but he should not engage in mass action unless he has the support of the majority of those unions’ membership?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. As I said, it is wrong that these strikes are going ahead when negotiations are under way. It is wrong to strike and to close so many classrooms and essential services, but it is being done on the basis of those turnouts. Just one quarter of Unison members voted to strike, and just 23% of those balloted at Unite voted in favour. [Interruption.] I am not surprised that Labour Members want to shout me down. We know why they will not condemn the strikes, because we got the figures today on where they get their money from. In the right hon. Gentleman's first year as leader of the party, 86% of Labour’s donations have come from the trade unions—86%! Under the previous Labour leader, it was 56%. That is about the only thing the Leader of the Opposition has improved since the time of Gordon Brown.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, the right hon. Gentleman is right on Yemen. As he knows, the National Security Council is spending an increasing amount of time on examining how we can best help that country not only to achieve a transition to greater democracy and freedom, but to tackle the security concerns that we have about it. He is right that we have had the Lisbon process and the 2020 process. The problem is that although this agenda gets pushed forward, in too many cases the targets and measures are not met. After 16 or 17 months of going to Council meetings, I am seeing a change of heart in the European Commission, not least because everyone recognises that the priority in Europe is now growth. The Commission has to stop adding expensive regulations to business and start deregulating, which is exactly the agenda that we are putting forward.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Does the Prime Minister agree that not only in Libya, but in Tunisia and Egypt there is an opportunity for reconstruction and a transition to democracy? To what extent will that be dealt with on a bilateral basis or in conjunction with our partners through the European External Action Service?

[The Prime Minister]

The first thing that we have done is to help to change the European neighbourhood policy to ensure that it is much more engaged with Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, and to put in much more conditionality so that there is progress towards rights and democracy in the countries that we are helping. In addition, we have a significant bilateral programme. It is essential to help those countries develop the building blocks of democracy, such as political parties, and understand the importance of civic society. The Department for International Development and others can help with that.

Libya

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join the hon. Gentleman in loathing the human rights abuses that are taking place in Syria. What we have seen happening is simply appalling—the loss of life, the damage and terror that the President has been inflicting on his own people.

On Russia, one of the encouraging things is that the Russians came to the Paris conference, were one of the 63 countries represented there and supported the statement that came out of it about NATO continuing its work and making sure that we complete the job in Libya—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman is right then to say from a sedentary position, “What about Syria?” I think that the whole international community can learn the lesson of some success in Libya and apply that elsewhere in terms of the unity that we need to see in the UN Security Council to put pressure on Syria.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

As someone who had reservations about the principle of intervention, may I congratulate the Prime Minister on a successful outcome in Libya? It was largely achieved by two aspects: first, it was legal; and secondly, it had the support of the Libyan people. Further to the previous question, however, will my right hon. Friend now use it as an illustration to persuade permanent members of the Security Council, such as Russia and China, that a well conducted intervention can be successfully used to restrain autocrats in countries such as Syria?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what he says. Everyone should have misgivings about such operations, and one should never have the naive belief that they are easy or that everything is going to go to plan. That very rarely happens, and we should always be hard-headed and careful about such things. We should also respect the fact that this is not done—this is not completed yet.

Also, I think that we should be very cautious about trying to draw up a new doctrine, because it seems to me that as soon as a new doctrine is established, a case comes up that flies completely in its face, but I do hope that other members of the Security Council will see that there has been success in removing a dictator, and in giving that country a chance of peaceful and democratic progress, which will be good for the world.

Public Disorder

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady is entirely right that there is no single measure that will increase parental responsibility and break up gang membership. One reason why I have asked my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) to play a role is that, before he took up his role on the Front Bench, the social justice organisation with which he was involved spent a huge amount of time trying to look at the best practice in dealing with gangs. There are gang injunctions at the moment that apply only to adults—we will be applying them to children—which can prevent people from doing particular things. That is a good start, but, as I have said, there is no one single answer.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

May I join my colleagues from Croydon in thanking the Prime Minister for his visit, which was hugely appreciated? I also join them in their call to maintain the high police profile down there. Does the Prime Minister agree that once the situation is stabilised we need to consider the underlying causes and, as he says, to accept that there is a small group in our society who do not know the difference between right and wrong?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. From the television scenes it was quite clear that this was criminality and looting and that a lot of it was done by very young children who should have been under the control of their parents.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

No, it was not unusual at all. Andy Coulson was cleared in the normal way for special advisers. He was cleared to secret, and he was not sent papers above that level. Like former Administrations, we set out all the names of the staff we employ as special advisers. Once again, I feel that a number of hon. Members are looking for some sort of secret behind a curtain that simply is not there.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

When it comes to restoring public confidence in the media and the police, does the Prime Minister agree that the steps that he has outlined today show that he has made more progress on this in 13 months than the previous Government did in 13 years?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes the important point that Labour Members had plenty of opportunities over 13 years. The shadow Chancellor and the Leader of the Opposition were there all the way through. They could have promoted a judicial inquiry. They could have responded to the Select Committee and done something about the Information Commissioner reports. They were the slumber party.

Afghanistan

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman asks a totally appropriate and legitimate question. What I have said is that the numbers are going down to 9,000 by the end of 2012. We must then work out the right number for 2013 and into 2014. I have said that after that, we will not be in Afghanistan in anything like the same number, nor in a combat role. I am not in a position now to give a figure for, as it were, the enduring commitment, through 2015 and beyond and the training role, which involves the officer training academy and other training work. We are not in a position yet to put a figure on that, but it will obviously be way down from the figures that we talk about today.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

The Prime Minister reaffirmed today that the stated policy objective in Afghanistan is to deny al-Qaeda a base from which it can attack the UK and other British interests. From that, it is fair to assume that he continues to receive intelligence that al-Qaeda remains a threat in Afghanistan. I know that this is difficult, but will he consider how that information and intelligence can be shared with the House?

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously, the whole process of sharing intelligence is a difficult vexed issue, and there are some difficult recent historical connotations. What I said in my statement is that there was a time when the lion’s share of plots that threatened people in UK came from the Afghanistan-Pakistan region. The number of such plots has come down significantly since then. Clearly, al-Qaeda has been absolutely hammered in Pakistan—it has lost a huge number of its senior leaders—and it has nothing like the presence in Afghanistan that it had when it was hosted by the Taliban in 2001. Our aim should be not just to exclude al-Qaeda from Afghanistan, but to ensure that the Afghans can go on ensuring that exclusion without the support of foreign troops. That is our real enduring aim.

Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Tuesday 3rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is obviously going a bit wider in his questioning. To me, it does not seem right to say that all the police’s attention should be on this issue; we have a serious situation in Northern Ireland as well. At all times, we are balancing the risks. On the police reforms, I say to Opposition Members that we have seen a successful model in London with the Mayor, which the previous Government put in place. That is a system in which the police feel more accountable to an elected individual, and I look forward to extending that across the country.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Pakistan is a divided and complex country, and the death of Osama bin Laden will only exacerbate tensions there. Does the Prime Minister agree that our priority should be to assist Pakistan to remain a stable state, if only because first, it is a nuclear power, and, secondly, it will have a crucial role in any settlement in Afghanistan?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. Of course there are frustrations, and questions will be asked about who knew what in Pakistan and about how this man could have lived in such a large house in such a comfortable-looking community so close to military installations. I am absolutely clear that the British interest is in working with the democratic politicians of Pakistan to deal with the shared issues of combating extremism; ensuring that we are dealing with a safe, rather than a dangerous, nuclear power; and, as my hon. Friend says, reaching a settlement in Afghanistan so that we can bring Britain’s brave troops home.

Libya/European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 28th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which is that Europe’s engagement with north Africa and the middle east has not always been very successful in the past, particularly on the grounds that he describes. There has not been enough conditionality on the progress those countries need to make towards more open societies and the building blocks of democracy, getting rid of emergency laws and the rest of it. The European Council conclusions, like those from our emergency summit, talk about putting in place a new partnership and making a new offer to these countries with deeper economic integration, broader market access and greater co-operation and, in return for that, we should ask for more conditionality in the progress that they make. Money is not the problem; there has been plenty of money put into these areas by Europe. We need more of a focus on what we believe we should be getting out of it.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Will the Prime Minister use tomorrow’s summit to clarify the rules of engagement? He will be aware of the criticism of the attacks on the arms dumps as they have been considered to involve a fairly broad interpretation of the UN resolution. Does he agree that it is critical that the future of Libya is not cluttered up with acrimony among the political consensus that he has successfully built up?

UN Security Council Resolution (Libya)

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Friday 18th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point about the leadership role taken by Nicolas Sarkozy and the French. I think the work that the French, the British and the Lebanese did together on the UN Security Council was vital. I absolutely pay tribute to our ambassador, Mark Lyall Grant, and his team, who did a superb job in marshalling support. Members in all parts of the House will see, when they read the resolution, that it is very, very strong and extremely comprehensive, and I hope that it marks a new start in what the UN will be able to achieve.

We very much hope that the African Union will use its good offices in the way that the hon. Gentleman suggests. African Union missions are still going to Libya, and we think that they will be enormously influential. I was particularly pleased that the three African members voted for the resolution, and I hope that that is a sign of things to come.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

As one of the doubting Thomases of the past few weeks, I congratulate the Prime Minister on his success and leadership and offer him my full support. I also join him in paying tribute to Sir Mark Lyall Grant and his team at the UN for what is a remarkable diplomatic success, which hopefully will mark a turning point in the development of these issues at the UN.

I am sure the Prime Minister agrees that difficult questions remain. At this moment, however, it is incumbent on all of us to stand behind the armed forces, particularly our airmen, who have to implement the resolution.

Japan and the Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman has considerable expertise on this issue. The responsibility to protect has been pushed forward and debated, and I remember asking questions in opposition, at the time of problems in Burma and elsewhere, on whether it should be invoked. What the lawyers will advise, quite rightly, is that things have moved on and changed since Bosnia. It seems to me that one of the things we are trying to do here is learn the lessons of Iraq and the lessons of Bosnia, where the international community was neither fast enough, nor indeed decisive enough in responding.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I very much agree with the Prime Minister’s proposals to make the countries of the middle east bigger and more open societies, but those of us with reservations about the no-fly zone are concerned about where it will lead. Given that the last two no-fly zones, in Bosnia and Iraq, both needed troops on the ground to follow behind them, what does he envisage will happen if a no-fly zone is unsuccessful and Gaddafi remains in place?

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously, a lot has been written and said about this issue, and I totally understand the argument, but if we face a situation where there is a real danger of Gaddafi continuing to inflict devastation on his people, and if the conditions set out have been met, which are that there is a demonstrable need, regional support and a clear legal basis, it seems to me that this is the right sort of step to consider. Of course, it is not a solution to the problem, but I believe that it would have an effect on the ground. It might not be a decisive effect, but I think that there are strong arguments for taking steps that further put pressure on Gaddafi, and I think that this is a step that we should consider. We have already taken a number of diplomatic and sanction steps. I think that this is an additional step that could make a difference.

Libya and the Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 28th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his praise of our armed forces. They have done a magnificent job, as they always do. As he says, we should also thank the Foreign Office staff and those in the Foreign Office crisis centre, which I visited, which is manning the phones round the clock and doing an extremely difficult job.

On future operations, it is difficult to say much more in the House, but obviously I have given the new figures on the number of British citizens we believe are still in Libya and the number who want to leave. It is a very small number at the moment who still want to leave. Obviously, that can change and, as I explained, we have the assets in place to help where appropriate.

In terms of what replaces our embassy, as I explained, we are going to have a consul in Tripoli, but we will be working with the Turkish Government, who still have thousands of nationals in-country, and I have spoken to the Turkish Prime Minister as well as to many other people.

The right hon. Gentleman asked whether the travel bans and the asset freezes go wide enough, which is a very important point. Right now, what we want to do is isolate and target the key members of the Libyan regime, with a clear warning that those close to the regime have a choice—they can desert it or leave it, but if they stay with it there is a chance that they will be hit by travel bans and asset freezes, too. That is all part of turning up the pressure.

As for the wider region, I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about institution-building and, indeed, making sure that the European Union sharpens its act on its neighbourhood policy. I think that there is room, yes, for multilateral action, but I hope that in this country we can do more in terms of political relations and on building party-to-party relations to try to help to build up the building blocks of democracy in those countries.

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about Israel-Palestine. I am proud of the fact that we backed the Security Council resolution. That was the right decision, although it meant a disagreement with our oldest and strongest ally, the United States. On arms sales, I agree that the guidelines need to be clear and need to be adhered to.

Finally, the right hon. Gentleman asked some questions about lessons to be learned. As I said, I think that there are lessons to learn. What worked in Egypt—a combination of scheduled and charter flights—did not work as well in Libya. Lessons need to be learned, including about the use of military assets, but I would make the point that it is not as easy as some people say. The more you rely on charters earlier, the more the scheduled airlines collapse, and you can leave yourself with a bigger problem.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about learning lessons in the wider running of government. Of course, there are always lessons to learn, and perhaps, if apologies are in order, he should think about one for the appalling dodgy dealing with Libya under the last Government.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I agree with the Prime Minister that, in view of the complete chaos that has engulfed Libya, there is a real opportunity, together with our European partners, to expedite the downfall of the present regime and create a post-Gaddafi structure in the vacuum. However, does he agree that, given Libya’s appalling record on human rights, it was a complete misjudgment to enter into a defence co-operation agreement with it?

[The Prime Minister]

I do think that there are lessons to learn from the deal in the desert. The previous Government were correct to encourage the giving up of weapons of mass destruction, but more parameters should have been put on the relationship, particularly— I have made the point before—regarding the release of al-Megrahi. It should not have been the British Government’s position to try to facilitate that. Lessons need to be learned more broadly about that, and I am sure that there will be an opportunity to do so.

EU Council and North Africa

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 7th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

The conclusion by Sir Gus O’Donnell that the previous Government did “all it could” to facilitate the release of Mr Megrahi is bad enough, but it is also inconsistent with the impression created by the previous Government. Has the Prime Minister made any assessment of the motive for such behaviour?

[The Prime Minister]

It is for Ministers to explain what they said and what they did not say. Clearly, they can rely on what is in the report about not being contradicted, but I think they have to look—and I hope they will do it fairly—and ask themselves, “Given that I was receiving memos about a game plan of facilitating contact and given that I was signing off those memos, shouldn’t I have really said to the House of Commons and elsewhere that it was not just that we didn’t want this man to die in a Scottish jail but that we were working actively with the Libyans to try to secure his release?” I think they should have said something more along those lines. I have genuinely tried to approach this by asking what is fair in terms of what we should have been told when those questions were asked.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 12th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am afraid I did not quite get the gist of that question. The point is that media regulation is properly carried out in this country and by this Government, and it will be done in a way that is fair and transparent. That is what needs to happen; that is what will happen.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Q13. The right to strike is an important one and the hallmark of a free society, but with rights come responsibilities. Does the Prime Minister agree that any union ballot that leads to industrial action should have the majority support of those entitled to vote?

[The Prime Minister]

I know that a strong case is being made, not least by my colleague, the Mayor of London, for this sort of change. I am very happy to look at the arguments for it, because I want to make sure that we have a fair body of union law in this country. I think the laws put in place in the 1980s are working well. We do not currently have proposals to amend them, but I am happy to look at this argument, because I do not want to see a wave of irresponsible strikes, not least when they are not supported by a majority of people taking part.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 20th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman talks about grandstanding, but for the past couple of years we were told endlessly that we were going to be isolated in Europe, that we would have no allies in Europe and no friends in Europe, but when we put together an alliance of the three biggest countries in Europe for budget restraint, the first thing he ought to do is stand up and congratulate us.

Let me take the right hon. Gentleman’s three questions in turn. First, on the budget, he talked about some inconvenient facts. Let me give him some inconvenient facts from last year. Last year, when we had a Labour Government, a 3.8% increase was proposed by the European Council and supported by that Government. The European Parliament then came forward with a 9.8% proposed increase, and they split the difference so the budget went up by 6%. That is what happened last year, supported by Labour. The difference between that and what we achieved is hundreds of millions of pounds. That is what this Government’s actions have saved. When it comes to changing positions, I note that in her statement after the European Council the shadow Foreign Secretary said that “Labour voted against” this budget rise “from the beginning”. That is simply not true—Labour MEPs opposed our call for a freeze in the European Parliament.

Secondly, on treaty change, the right hon. Gentleman does not seem to understand that this very limited treaty change is in our interests so we should support it. We should use this opportunity to get rid of the risks of Britain being drawn further into eurozone support in the future. We are liable to that because of the weak actions of his Government before the last election. It is absolutely right that we use our negotiating capital to make sure that Britain is not liable when the new mechanism comes in. What we are doing, once again, is clearing up the mess left by Labour.

The third issue that the right hon. Gentleman raised was the economy. He says that we should call for measures that will achieve greater stability in Europe, but that is exactly what we are doing. Just imagine what stability we would get in Europe if he were sitting at the Council table saying that we should not be bothering with deficit reduction. We would be putting ourselves in the same camp as Ireland, Portugal and other countries.

Finally, the right hon. Gentleman tells me how unhappy my Back Benchers are, but I would swap their unhappiness for that of his Back Benchers any day of the week. I am sure that they will want to remember that important thing at Christmas time—always keep your receipts in case you want to exchange for something bigger.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

As a happy Back Bencher, I congratulate the Prime Minister on winning the budget battle with the European Parliament, where there was clearly no splitting the difference. Enlargement was also on the agenda. On Turkey, does he agree that the problems that many predicted would have occurred by now do not seem to have materialised? However, we still seem to have deadlock, with no new chapters being opened and no progress being made on the Ankara protocol. The General Affairs and External Relations Council said last week that progress is now expected without further delay: how does he see that materialising?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right that we should push for progress with Turkish accession—and we are. I raised this with the Hungarian Prime Minister when he came to Downing street last week, because Hungary is going to hold the future presidency of the European Union. We have to win the argument in Europe—too many are opposed to Turkish membership. I think that all the arguments are in favour and that we should push this as hard as we can and keep opening those chapters to show that we are doing so in good faith.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course we keep a very careful eye on the situation in Northern Ireland, and on whether additional resources are required. We stuck to the pledges made by the previous Government about properly funding the devolution of policing and justice. I think that decisions are better made locally, which is why that was the right step to take. I know how difficult the security situation is in Northern Ireland, and I pay tribute to police on both sides of the border for the brilliant work that they do. Of course we always stand ready to help, but we did make quite a generous settlement in terms of devolving law and justice, and that should be the first call for resources.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

In Afghanistan on Monday, the Prime Minister said that British troops could start coming home from Afghanistan as early as next year, which is a major policy shift. With which of our allies did he discuss that decision, and does he envisage the gap being filled by the Afghan army or the US army?

[The Prime Minister]

What I said in Afghanistan was what I said before I went to Afghanistan and what I will happily say again today, which is that the whole of NATO and all the nations of the international security assistance force that are involved in Afghanistan are committed to transition to Afghan control between the start of 2011 and the end of 2014. As that happens, there will clearly be opportunities either to reinvest troops in training missions or, indeed, to bring them home. What the Chief of the Defence Staff and I both said at a press conference in Afghanistan was that it might be possible to bring some of our troops home next year.

NATO Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 22nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am a little bit more optimistic than the hon. Gentleman. The case today is that Afghanistan ground is forbidden to al-Qaeda and al-Qaeda training camps. Post-2001, there were training camps in Afghanistan, but there is none now because of the action that the allies and the Afghan security forces have taken. The question is this: if the allies withdrew now, would the Afghans be able to sustain that? The answer today is no, but the answer by 2014 should, we believe, be yes. Of course there is a lot more help to be given and a lot more capacity to build, and a lot more troops and police need to be trained up, but we can see some success already, because the number of plots that we face from that part of the world has declined, partly because of the action we have taken.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on the positive outcome of the summit and, in particular, on the fact that the United States has moved away from 2011 as the date for withdrawal, and towards 2014. However, is not Iran the elephant in the room? It does not appear in the declaration—at least not in substance. Will my right hon. Friend say what the attitude of his partners is towards Iran and, in particular, towards sanctions, which, at the end of the day, is the only weapon that we have?

[The Prime Minister]

There has been good progress on that. The UN Security Council resolution on Iranian sanctions was helpful. The European Union went beyond that and introduced further sanctions. When you look around that room, with all those NATO partners and ISAF partners, you see that there is a pretty good consensus on the need for sanctions and the need to apply them properly. There is a conversation that we go on having with allies such as Turkey about the importance of not seeing any slippage in the sanctions. There are some early signs that they are having some effect on the Iranian regime, but we have to keep that up. As my hon. Friend says, we do not have many other weapons to force a change of mind on the Iranians. The sanctions are a weapon that we have, and we should use them to the best of our ability.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman, who is very experienced in this House, has clearly not met my right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary. I am sure that I can arrange for them to spend some quality time together.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on playing a very difficult hand at the summit. Does he agree that seeing off the European Parliament’s budget, securing our opt-out on economic governance and ensuring that future budgets will reflect a nation’s spending cuts all adds up to a good day’s work?

[The Prime Minister]

May I thank my hon. Friend? I do think this principle that what happens in terms of the EU budget should reflect what happens to member states’ budgets is an important principle. Of course, as we speak today, it is just words in a conclusions text, but many of the things that my hon. Friends and I have worried about over the years have been words in a conclusions text—a little opening that people who want more and more of the European Union push their force through. We have now got a wedge, if you like, that we can push on at all subsequent negotiations: that the European Council has accepted that what is good for nation states is good for the European Union’s budget.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Tuesday 19th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That was very ingenious: the right hon. Gentleman managed to get round your restriction on questions, Mr Speaker, and I think managed to get in at least three. As for regiments, I can confirm that no infantry regiments will be abolished or scrapped as a result of the review. The reduction in the Army numbers will be achieved by reducing the number of headquarters, particularly the divisional and regional headquarters. There may be some impact on logistics and artillery, but no infantry battalions will be altered.

On the reserves, I was personally keen that we should look widely at what other countries are doing on the balance between regular and reserve forces, and ensure that our reserve forces are properly equipped for the sort of modern wars that we have to fight and the modern services that they have to undertake. I do not think that we have done that work yet, which is why I have taken it out of the defence review and said that we should have a proper, separate look.

On Northern Ireland, I can give the right hon. Gentleman the assurance that the last Government gave a number of commitments on the devolution of policing and justice, and the funding that this required, and we will continue with those. We have had a discussion in the National Security Council about these issues and how we best tackle the threat from dissident republicans. I can give the right hon. Gentleman my word that we will continue to give the issue our highest attention, and he will have noticed in the national security strategy that we have put it down as one of the highest priorities for our country, which is right.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s statement that there will be no shrinkage in Britain’s role on the world stage. The Royal Navy has fulfilled a number of deployments around the globe for many decades. Can he reassure me that with the reduction in the number of frigates, there will be no reduction in the number of the Royal Navy’s commitments?

[The Prime Minister]

The Royal Navy has said that it is able to undertake its task with this lay down of frigates and destroyers. We obviously have the new Type 45 destroyers coming into service, which are costing something like £1 billion each, and we will have the less expensive, more flexible future frigates coming forward as well. I genuinely mean this point about no strategic shrinkage. We are having to take some difficult decisions, but when we think about how much time we spend in this House talking about natural disasters the world over, and about our role in trying to tackle them, one argument that we need to develop is about how the money that we spend through our aid budget plays a key role in ensuring that there is no strategic shrinkage.

Treatment of Detainees

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

May I welcome the Prime Minister’s statement and in particular the warm and justified support that he gave to the intelligence services? In the previous Parliament, the Intelligence and Security Committee produced two reports, neither of which was published. The first was into the rendition and interrogation of Binyam Mohamed, and the second was into the guidance and treatment of detainees. Will he confirm that both reports will be made available to the inquiry? Will the guidance that he is publishing today be the same guidance that was in force for the past decade, or will it be the revised guidance to which the Home Office and Foreign Office were opposed until as recently as last April?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend served on that Committee and knows its work extremely well. To answer his questions, it is right that the reports to which he refers will be made available to the inquiry. The guidance we are publishing today is neither the past guidance nor the guidance the ISC looked at: it is indeed new, amalgamated guidance, which is public, and I urge him to read it. We are not publishing the ISC report from the previous Parliament on the last set of guidance, because that would be slightly misleading—it is a report into guidance that no longer exists. That is the right approach, and I ask him to look at the guidance to see what he thinks.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 21st June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We will be having a look at them too.

The right hon. and learned Lady also spoke at great length about borrowing. She mentioned the dangers of falling behind South Korea. I have to say that if we followed her advice, I think we would be falling behind North Korea, but let me say this to her about the issue of borrowing. The Council’s conclusion could not be clearer. It said:

“We reaffirm our collective determination to ensure fiscal sustainability, including by accelerating plans for fiscal consolidation where warranted”.

Where is it more warranted than in Britain, where Labour left us with a £155 billion public sector deficit?

It is interesting that, following the sovereign debt crisis and what has happened in Greece, the Labour party is completely isolated in Europe in not believing that we need to take early action on the deficit. Every other country is having to take this sort of action, including painful action. The right hon. and learned Lady does not have to talk nonsense because she is not taking part in the Labour leadership election, so she should talk some sense and recognise that we have to get our deficit in order, we have to take action and it is the right thing to do.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

The Council called on the Foreign Ministers at their next meeting to implement the United Nations sanctions against Iran. Does the Prime Minister agree that that is a big step in the twin-track strategy of combining sanctions with engagement and assistance, and does he have in mind any event or date that would trigger a definitive assessment of whether or not the twin-track strategy against Iran is actually working?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s question. The key is to try to get the maximum number of countries behind the most specific list of sanctions possible. I think that what we have had in recent years is a lot of talk about sanctions and a lot of commitments to sanctions. Now is the time for countries actually to come up with what they are specifically going to target in terms of bank accounts, trade finance, oil and gas works and the rest. That is what should happen. My hon. Friend asked for a specific date as to when this should be assessed; I think it is an ongoing process. What we are trying to do here is tip the balance in the mind of Iran in terms of making progressing with a nuclear weapon more expensive, in order to get it to think again. There is no one date for that; it should be continually assessed.

Afghanistan

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Richard Ottaway

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman. I was once told that the first sign of madness is to read out one’s own speeches, but I agree very much with a lot of what he said. It is important that the military feel that they can give unvarnished, clear advice to Ministers, but it is also important that Ministers test, probe and challenge that advice. That is how policy should be developed, and that is how it should be done in future.

[Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

Given that one of the problems in Afghanistan in the past has been mission creep, may I thank the Prime Minister for the clarity of his statement? He pointed out that we are still in the United States military surge phase. Can he assure me that, although the US military are already beginning to talk about a future draw-down, we will keep in constant touch with them to ensure that we operate on the same timeline? Will he keep in touch with not only the US but our NATO allies on this point?