Crime and Policing Bill

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Whitaker

Committee stage
Monday 17th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The position of the Government is that it is up to each local authority. I understand the right reverend Prelate’s point, but there is overarching guidance in England, provided by the National Planning Policy Framework, which basically indicates that local authorities are required to assess the need for Traveller pitches in their area. That is a conflict; there is a shortage, there is always a debate on these matters, there is always opposition, there is always discussion, but, ultimately, local councils have to settle on sites in their areas and I cannot really help the right reverend Prelate more than that. There is guidance and a process to be followed.

Issues around the proportionality of enforcement action were also mentioned in passing today. Again, our laws are designed to address unlawful behaviour such as criminal damage or actions that cause harassment, alarm or distress, rather than to criminalise a way of life. This distinction is central to ensuring fair and proportionate policing. Harassment, alarm and distress are well established within our legal framework, so there is a careful balance to be achieved. The response to unauthorised encampments, locally led, involves multi-agency collaboration between local councils, police and relevant services. This approach supports community engagement and ensures that responses are tailored to local needs.

My noble friend’s amendment goes slightly further than the court’s judgment: she seeks to repeal the offence of residing on land without the consent of the occupier of the land, as well as the power for police to direct trespassers away from land where they are there for the purpose of residing there. I just say to my noble friend that those are matters the court did not rule on, and the Government still consider these to be necessary and proportionate police powers, but I give her the undertaking today that I did in my earlier comments, that we hope to be able to bring forward solutions by Report. In the light of that undertaking, I hope my noble friend will withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken, in particular my cosignatories, the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Bennett, but also the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester, who spoke tellingly about recent experience. I thank warmly my noble friend the Minister for being the first Minister to offer a way through. The sites issue will, all the same, be pursued, but then there are other routes to pursue that with areas that are not within Home Office responsibility.

I simply make one point: the 1994 Act does give the police powers to remove people when there is damage caused. It is the criminalisation element of Part 4 of the 2022 Act which is so discriminatory, but we shall discuss these aspects before Report, I hope, including the way through that my noble friend the Minister outlined. I hope we shall have the opportunity to talk about that. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

County Lines Drug Trafficking

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Whitaker

Monday 24th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord will know that I can answer only for the period from July 2024 to September 2024, which are the latest figures. These figures show that 400 deal lines were closed, more than 200 dealers were arrested and charged, 500 further arrests were made, and there were 800 safeguarding referrals for children and vulnerable people. He asked what we can do in particular—yes, roughly 14,500 children have been impacted by county lines, and first and foremost we are looking at how we can support those children.

Very shortly—in fact, tomorrow—the new offence of criminal exploitation of children will be introduced in the police and crime Bill. I look forward to the noble Lord’s support on that. It will mean that we can go after the gangs who are luring young people into violence and crime, and we will have an additional penalty for individuals who exploit and damage children as a result. So there are short-term interventions to be made, but there are long-term measures too.

I would also say to the noble Lord that the additional 13,000 neighbourhood police officers will be an extremely important way of gathering intelligence, putting police boots on the ground and putting the fear of God into those people who are undertaking county lines activity.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

I take it that my noble friend the Minister is aware that a fair number of children who are recruited into county lines have been excluded from school. In that connection, what liaison does his department have with the Department for Education to reduce the number of children who have nothing else to do when they are kicked out of school?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

It is right that we should put children at the focus of county line activity. By that, I mean preventing children from being involved in county lines, not criminalising those children who are involved in county lines but seeing them, as I think my noble friend indicated, as victims who need our support. I will take away her contribution and discuss it with my right honourable friend the Police Minister, see what steps are being taken to do that, and contact my noble friend accordingly.

EU Settlement Scheme

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Whitaker

Thursday 24th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. I cannot commit to that today, but it will form part of a review as to how we look at digitisation and ensure that the people who have the right to have settled status can exercise that right and understand it, have the appropriate paperwork and meet their obligations as well as ours. I fully sympathise with the noble Baroness on chatbots, which I find quite annoying.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that a large number of Roma people came over here when we were in the European Union to escape a really inhospitable environment, who, largely through digital exclusion, have not been able to apply properly for settled status? In addition, there was some ambiguity about the need for the children of those Roma people to apply separately. Will he look into these problems and see whether they can be remedied?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The Government take citizens’ rights extremely seriously, and we will continue to work constructively with both the EU and internally with those who represent those who wish to have citizens’ rights, to ensure that we meet the provisions of the withdrawal agreement and that they are properly implemented within the United Kingdom. I heard what my noble friend has said and I will take that back and reflect upon it.