Energy Prices: Energy-intensive Industries

Debate between Lord Spellar and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Tuesday 6th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord and thank him for the work he does on behalf of so many important industry companies. He will know that we are in discussion with organisations such as his own and many other business and industry interests. As he said, we hope to publish the industrial strategy within the next few weeks. I cannot give him any guarantees as to what will be in it, but I assure him that I understand the pressures on our industries, and we are considering those very carefully in government.

[Lord Spellar (Lab)]

But, my Lords, the fundamental flaw in the pricing system introduced at the time of privatisation is that the average price of electricity was determined by the marginal price of the last kilowatt, which is normally produced by gas and, as the Minister rightly said, is therefore driven by international gas prices. That is not a law of physics or engineering but a political decision. Should we not be examining that to rebalance the pricing system to the benefit of industry and indeed consumers?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, the electricity market operates on the principle of marginal pricing, whereby the wholesale price of electricity is set by the last technology needed to meet overall demand. That is why gas tends to set the price for the market. We are of course looking at this as part of our REMA review that I have referred to. But the faster we decarbonise our energy and move towards clean power, the less gas will have the influence it does in the current system.

Energy Grid Resilience

Debate between Lord Spellar and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Tuesday 6th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

Yes, my Lords, we are. It is a very relevant point. Clearly, we are looking for a balanced energy mix for the future. We see nuclear as being an essential baseload. We will have renewables, but we are looking at hydro storage, as the noble Lord reflected in his own question. The whole point is that we will have a balanced system, but one that is heavily decarbonised. That is exactly the aim of what we seek to do.

[Lord Spellar (Lab)]

My Lords, the Statement says that the GB system is “highly resilient” but, in reality, has that not eroded over recent years, as was demonstrated recently at Heathrow, when we have known for some years about capacity problems in west London? The Minister will also be aware of the bottlenecks on the high-voltage national grid, not helped by the current long lead times—around four years—for high-voltage cable and transformers. Even without the rising threat of sabotage, has the network provider not been far too complacent about the threats to the resilience of our electricity network? Finally, he mentioned in a reply about small modular reactors that the industry has been waiting for too long for a decision while our competitors are moving rapidly ahead. Is it not now time for action to get on with building this industry of the future?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, in relation to SMRs, I agree with my noble friend that we need to get on with it. I hope and expect that we will have some decisions very soon. I hope that that will set the foundation for future investment in the SMR programme.

As far as west London is concerned, my noble friend is absolutely right to point out the challenges there, and the fact that we basically inherited a system where there had not been sufficient investment in the grid and local distribution network. In relation to Heathrow, let us await the interim and final reports of the review that we have established to see what lessons can be learned. As I said earlier to the noble Earl, Lord Russell, the fact is that we expect there to be a major investment in our whole grid system between now and 2030. It will be essential to meet our clean power targets. I think that will give industry the confidence to invest in the areas where we wish it to do so.

Scotland: New Nuclear Power Generation

Debate between Lord Spellar and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Tuesday 18th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Earl is not going to draw me into commenting on what the Scottish Government have done on these matters. However, it is worth making the point that, in 2023, 19.3% of electricity generated in Scotland came from nuclear. That indicates that, in clean power, nuclear has a huge amount to offer Scotland, Wales and England.

[Lord Spellar (Lab)]

My Lords, would the Government’s hand not be greatly strengthened in dealing with the Scottish Government if they themselves moved ahead on a decision on small modular nuclear reactors? When do they expect to announce the outcome, and can we have something slightly more definitive than “soon”?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I absolutely agree with my noble friend on the importance of the small modular reactor programme. He knows that Great British Nuclear is going through a selection process at the moment. We expect important announcements to be made in the spring.

Internet Activity: Energy Use

Debate between Lord Spellar and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Monday 27th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, my understanding is that NESO has estimated that 7 terawatt hours will be used by data centres in 2025, rising to 22 terawatt hours in 2030 and to 62 terawatt hours in 2050. As a comparison, it expects annual electricity demand in 2050 to be between 533 and 700 terawatt hours.

[Lord Spellar (Lab)]

My Lords, the expansion of data centres will require a significant expansion of the grid and of energy sources. In a written reply to me, the Minister indicated that, for the high-level grid, there is something like a four-year lead time for securing equipment. Furthermore, on energy sources, data centres need reliable sources of supply. Inevitably, that will mean the development of nuclear power, including small modular reactors. When will the Government get on and make a decision about the future of the small modular reactor programme?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I agree with everything my noble friend said. He knows that we have a programme within Great British Nuclear to appraise the technology involved in a number of shortlisted small modular reactors. It is making considerable progress. We expect further announcements to be made in spring. My noble friend will understand that there are discussions taking place within the spending review.

Small Modular Nuclear Reactors

Debate between Lord Spellar and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Wednesday 22nd January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spellar]

To ask His Majesty’s Government when they expect to announce the orders for the first small modular nuclear reactors.

[The Minister of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath) (Lab)]

My Lords, Great British Nuclear is pushing forward with the SMR competition and is negotiating with a four down-selected companies. Once negotiations have concluded, the companies will be invited to submit final tenders, which Great British Nuclear will then evaluate, with final decisions to be taken in the spring.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Spellar (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. He will be aware that the Government’s response to the AI action plan this month refers to the opportunity

“to accelerate investment in … Small Modular Reactors”.

He will also be aware that Britain is at the forefront of developing this technology, which could make a significant contribution to our growth agenda right through the country. However, delays in decision-making by the last Government led to significant slippage in the programme. What is the Minister’s department doing? He gave the procedure that would be undertaken, but what is the department doing to get the SMR programme back on track?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand my noble friend’s impatience. It is an impatience that I share, because we can all see the potential of small modular reactors in the UK and the export potential of UK companies that are involved in developing SMRs. With fairness to Great British Nuclear, it is going through a tough process. We will have assurance with regard to the technologies and value-for-money issues. Spring is not far away. I understand the haste with which my noble friend wishes us to act in this area.

Great British Nuclear: Modular Reactors

Debate between Lord Spellar and Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

Monday 2nd December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

I am not sure I understand the question, but if it is whether we recognise the importance of SMRs in this country and generally, the answer is yes. On the benefits of the use of small modular reactors, having a modular approach in which much can be assembled off-site brings huge advantages. Going forward, we see that SMRs have great potential, and of course UK companies themselves have great potential.

[Lord Spellar (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister clearly shares my frustration at the time taken in moving this issue forward under the previous Administration. At the same time, is it not a fact that we have a major nuclear reactor constructor in the UK that has been producing reactors for our submarines for over 60 years? Is it not enormously important for that constructor, and equally important for its supply chain, to be able to tool up and organise in order to produce? Is it not the unfortunate reality that the United States is moving ahead on this and has a full-spectrum approach to selling its modular reactors while we slip behind? What is the Minister going to do to speed this up?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

I hope we are not slipping behind. Clearly, the process that GBN is going through will take a few more months, but I hope the outcome will be a satisfactory conclusion. I cannot comment on the companies involved in the appraisal and the discussions taking place with GBN at the moment, but I take the noble Lord’s point about our defence capability and the supply chain. We are increasingly seeing the civil nuclear and defence nuclear industries working more closely together, and I see that as a very important foundation for the future. I take the noble Lord’s point about the US; it is important that where we have a technological advantage, we make the best of it.