Heathrow Expansion: Lakeside Energy from Waste Ltd

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Thursday 17th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie) on securing this important debate about the effect on Lakeside Energy from Waste Ltd of the Government’s preference for a third runway at Heathrow. I shall address my hon. Friend’s specific points shortly, but wish to begin by providing the House with some general context.

As my hon. Friend will know, the Government announced in October 2016 that their preference for delivering much-needed additional runway capacity in south-east England was a new north-west runway at Heathrow. The Government also set out that they would be taking this preference forward through the development of a national policy statement.

In terms of process, the Government have consulted twice on a draft airports NPS, and the second consultation closed on 19 December. The Transport Committee completed its scrutiny of the draft airports NPS on 23 March this year. I wish to take the opportunity to thank both the Committee for its important and timely work and the tens of thousands of members of the public who responded to our consultations. We are currently giving careful consideration to the Committee’s 25 recommendations and all the consultation responses. The House will appreciate that, during this time of careful consideration, I am not able to discuss either the merits or content of any final airports NPS; or the Government’s response to the consultations or the recommendations from the Transport Committee. Subject to that consideration, I can reassure my hon. Friend that we are on track to publish and lay before Parliament any final airports NPS in the first half of this year. It can then be debated in both Houses and will be the subject of a vote in this House.

Let me turn to the Energy from Waste plant itself. It is clear that should the north-west runway go ahead, it will result in the loss of the jointly owned Viridor and Grundon Lakeside Energy from Waste facility at Colnbrook, near Slough. The Lakeside complex houses a municipal waste incinerator as well as a high-temperature incinerator for clinical and other hazardous waste. The site handles 420,000 tonnes of waste annually, primarily taking waste from a number of authorities, including Slough, Reading, Wokingham, Bracknell and the West London Waste Authority. The site reportedly generates 37 MW of electricity to National Grid.

The high-temperature incinerator primarily provides a waste disposal service to NHS trusts and GP practices. In addition, the Metropolitan and Thames Valley police forces and the UK Border Force use the same facility for the safe disposal of contraband and controlled materials. Lakeside is one of five clinical waste incinerators in the south-east and London regions of comparable capacity. The incinerator at Lakeside has a capacity of 10,000 tonnes, of which 5,200 tonnes were in use in 2016.

In 2016, the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead, for example, did not send any municipal waste to the Lakeside Energy from Waste plant. More than 33.5 kilo tonnes of mixed municipal waste was sent instead to the Ardley Energy from Waste plant in Oxfordshire. In terms of clinical waste, Windsor and Maidenhead sent more than half a tonne of clinical waste to the Lakeside clinical waste incinerator. However, it is noted that the majority of Windsor and Maidenhead’s clinical waste—some 1.5 tonnes—was processed at Hillingdon Hospital.

In addition to the Lakeside site, expansion at Heathrow would affect a number of large businesses and facilities such as the British Airways headquarters at Waterside, a large number of airport hotels and the immigration removal centres. The draft NPS is clear that immigration removal centres play a vital role as part of the infrastructure, which allows the Government to maintain effective immigration control and to secure the UK’s borders. Continuous provision of the immigration removal centres at Heathrow is necessary. This approach, which is different from that taken for other large-scale businesses, was taken as immigration removal centres are strategic assets, providing nationally critical infrastructure. The Government believe that it is necessary to require that these be replaced, without interruption of service.

The Airports Commission concluded in its 2015 final report that it would be “necessary” to replace the Lakeside Energy from Waste plant if the HAL scheme was preferred. In its consideration for the site, it noted that, while not of national importance, the site played a significant role in regional and local waste management and had a valuable capability to process clinical waste and other contaminated material.

In reviewing the Airport Commission’s recommendation for the plant, the Government explored its role in UK waste management and energy plans across Departments, as well as seeking confirmation of any regulations or Government policy that would require the plant’s replacement.

Both the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy assessed that the loss of the plant would not impact the UK’s ability to meet environmental targets on either a regional or a national basis. For these reasons, it is the Government’s view that the Lakeside Energy from Waste plant is neither a strategic energy nor a waste asset, and with no regulatory or policy reason to replace the plant it would not be appropriate to mandate that it should be replaced. The Government have therefore taken the view that should the north-west runway scheme go ahead, it should be considered in the same way as other commercial property acquisitions and be treated as a commercial negotiation between the owners and the airport.

Any applicant will need to undertake a commercial negotiation with the owners of the plant to determine compensation. We understand that the site operators are working with Heathrow Airport Ltd and the relevant local and regulatory authorities to replace the facility on a like-for-like basis at a suitable nearby site in the event that any airports NPS is designated and the airport operator proceeds with an application for development consent.

In the revised draft NPS, the Government recognise the role of the plant in local waste management plans. This was changed to ensure that any applicant should make reasonable endeavours to ensure that sufficient provision is made to address the reduction in waste treatment capacity caused by the loss of the Lakeside Energy from Waste plant. Analysis of both NPS consultations and the TSC recommendations continues. During this process, we will continue to review the plant’s status within any final airports NPS.

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this important debate. I appreciate that many Members of this House will have views on airport expansion, and I can assure them that they will have an opportunity to debate any final airports NPS.

Question put and agreed to.

Crossrail Extension to Ebbsfleet

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) on securing this debate about the proposal to extend Crossrail to Ebbsfleet. At the outset, I pay special tribute to my right hon. Friends the Members for Bexleyheath and Crayford (David Evennett) and for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire), who is not here this afternoon, as well as the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce), for their consistent championing of the—well, we are not allowed to call it the “extension” to Ebbsfleet, but the “completion” of the Crossrail project. They have worked very closely for a long time alongside council leaders, some of whom are in the Public Gallery this afternoon, from Bexley—Teresa O’Neill—as well as from Dartford and Kent.

Across the UK, the Government are investing record amounts to improve the experience of rail passengers. State-of-the-art infrastructure, new and longer trains, smart ticketing, improved information and updated wi-fi are all contributing to the creation of a modern, 21st-century railway that will drive our economic prosperity—and drive it into the post-Brexit period evoked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford a few moments ago.

Crossrail is a key part of that investment. The project is now over 92% complete, and, as Members have recognised, it will have a truly transformative impact on the public transport network, not only in London but across the south-east and beyond. When it is fully open in December 2019, the railway will deliver a 10% increase in London’s rail capacity, carrying up to 200 million passengers a year and with up to 24 trains per hour running at peak times. The new line will bring an extra 1.5 million people to within 45 minutes of London’s key business and entertainment districts. It will link major employment, leisure and business districts—Heathrow airport, the west end, the City and Canary Wharf—which have never been linked in that way before, enabling real and valuable economic development to take place.

I want to take this opportunity to reflect again on the magnificent scale of what is being achieved with Crossrail: not only the surmounting of engineering and technical challenges to build the first new railway for a generation, but the immense economic impact that the project has had, not just in London but throughout the UK. Companies of all sizes across the country have won contracts for work on it, including the construction of 70 brand-new trains at Bombardier’s historic plant in Derby. Overall, it is supporting up to 55,000 new jobs, creating more than 1,000 apprenticeship opportunities for our young people and adding up to £42 billion to the UK economy. The sheer ambition of this project cannot be overestimated; neither can the great legacy that will be created by its use of innovative technologies, and the vast skills capital that it will leave in its wake, to be passed on to other infrastructure projects that are planned across the UK.

The Elizabeth line—as my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford said, that is how it will be known from later this year—will have a transformative effect on travel in south-east London and beyond when it opens in December. Journey times to and from central London will be significantly reduced, wider regional connectivity will improve considerably, and I anticipate that new travel patterns will emerge. Indeed, I expect that a significant number of passengers will wish to transfer to the Elizabeth line at Abbey Wood.

My hon. Friend asked about the current route of the Elizabeth line and whether it could be extended to Ebbsfleet. The Department for Transport, which sponsors this project jointly with Transport for London, has received many queries over the years about whether the route could or should be extended beyond its western, eastern or south-eastern arms, or whether, indeed, entirely new branches should be developed. As Members will know, the current 60-mile route runs from Reading in the west to Shenfield in the east and Abbey Wood in the south-east, with a spur that will also serve Heathrow airport terminals 2,3,4 and 5 when it is fully open in December 2019. The Elizabeth line, which will pass through 41 stations—10 of which are newly constructed—was developed over a period of many years, and it has been planned to maximise benefits to passengers as well as ensuring that the timetable is operationally viable. It is therefore crucial for any discussion about extending the current route to be placed in the context of the transport improvements that are already planned for the area. Let me say a few words about those.

In respect of the specific issue of an Ebbsfleet Crossrail extension, my hon. Friend is aware that a detailed review of the business case was undertaken in 2004. It recommended that the south-eastern branch should go only as far as Abbey Wood, and that was reflected in the Crossrail Act 2008.

I am aware, however, that Transport for London is currently working with local authorities in London and north Kent as part of the Thames Gateway Kent Partnership to prepare a strategic outline business case. My understanding is that this will look at options to improve transport connectivity and capacity to support the development of new homes and jobs in the area—the regeneration of the area to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford referred. I pay tribute to the work in particular of the Crossrail to Ebbsfleet campaign and council leaders Teresa O’Neill and Jeremy Kite, and I look forward to seeing the outputs of this work and to the Department receiving the full strategic outline business case in short order.

I further acknowledge the work undertaken to develop the regeneration aspirations for Ebbsfleet and the wider area by the Thames Estuary 2050 Growth Commission. I understand the commission is shortly due to publish, in this case its report on the vision for the development and growth in the region.

[Gareth Johnson]

I hear what the Minister says about the decision made not to extend out to Abbey Wood, but does he agree that this part of north Kent has changed significantly since that decision was made? We have thousands more homes and greater pressures on our rail system than at that time, and the pressure on housing generally is greater now. We also had traffic problems with the Lower Thames crossing, and the issues relating to Heathrow airport that I mentioned and people getting from north Kent to Heathrow. All those issues have evolved over this period, strengthening the arguments for extending Crossrail to Ebbsfleet.

[Joseph Johnson]

I do indeed recognise that that part of north Kent has changed considerably over the decade since the passage of the Act I mentioned, which is why it is important that we are about to receive this new work from the Thames Gateway Kent Partnership looking at overall growth prospects for the region, and are also about to receive the fully developed strategic outline business case. This will enable the Department to take a fresh look at the case for extending Crossrail to Ebbsfleet, but, as a Member who also represents a constituency in that part of the world, I share my hon. Friend’s frustration and recognise that there are aspirations that are currently unmet, and he has made a strong case for the extension today.

In the context of these plans for housing-led regeneration of this part of north Kent, I also recognise that there is renewed interest in discussions about the transport infrastructure and capacity improvements that would be required to unlock development. I am sure my hon. Friend welcomes the future enhancements to the strategic road network with the planned A2 junction improvements at Bean and Ebbsfleet. These improvements will support economic and housing growth in north Kent, including Ebbsfleet Garden City, and demonstrate the Government’s commitment to invest in transport infrastructure.

I acknowledge that many of these recent discussions have focused on the proposal to extend the south-eastern arm of the Elizabeth line to Ebbsfleet and that the extension proposal was included in the Mayor of London’s transport strategy published in March. The Department’s current priority is the delivery of the Elizabeth line. Any extension to the route would require a strong business case and need to be technically feasible, and include the identification of funding.

As my hon. Friend will understand, any request for Government support would need to satisfy the value-for-money and affordability criteria and be consistent with the new process we announced in March for the development and delivery of rail enhancements. The rail network enhancements pipeline is designed to ensure that future rail projects are properly planned and scrutinised to deliver maximum value and benefit to rail users and taxpayers. Alongside this pipeline, we have launched a call for ideas for market-led proposals to create a new tier of investment in rail infrastructure from the private sector.

I shall now describe some of the improvements already planned for rail in the south-east. From later this month, new Thameslink services will link Woolwich, Abbey Wood and north Kent to Blackfriars, Farringdon and St Pancras for the first time, which, together with the Elizabeth line from December 2018, will deliver faster, more convenient journeys for passengers and improved connectivity.

I also want to draw attention to the work the Department is doing with regard to the new Southeastern franchise due to launch from April 2019. The Southeastern rail franchise public consultation document, also published in March 2017, set out ambitious proposals to transform the train service for passengers on the Southeastern network. Our specification for the new franchise is expected to be delivered by no later than December 2022 and will provide better and more reliable journeys and more room for passengers, integrating seamlessly with future Thameslink and Elizabeth line services. I have no doubt that this will transform travel across London, Kent and parts of East Sussex and will be delivered through a brand-new collaborative partnership between the next operator and Network Rail.

In addition, longer, higher-capacity trains will provide space for around 60,000 more passengers in the morning rush-hour. Metro-style trains will operate on suburban routes in south-east London and north Kent, similar to those on other high-capacity lines into London.

The Government’s vision for stronger performance and reliability will be delivered through a brand-new collaborative partnership between the next operator and Network Rail. This will deliver shared incentives to ensure that both organisations work together to put the passenger first and to deliver a more reliable, efficient railway. The new franchise also recognises the step change in connectivity that the Elizabeth line to Abbey Wood will offer Southeastern passengers. Bidders must provide regular services to and from Abbey Wood and deliver innovative pay-as-you-go ticketing.

In summary, I hope I have demonstrated the Government’s commitment both to rail improvements and to wider regeneration in this area of the south-east.

[Teresa Pearce]

I have listened carefully to the Minister. Would he not accept that south-east London is massively underserved by transport compared with the rest of London and that stopping at Abbey Wood does not help Bexley at all?

[Joseph Johnson]

I agree that south-east London is dependent on the Southeastern franchise and that particular train operator. It is unique in not having competition. I would not wholly agree, however, with the hon. Lady’s point about Abbey Wood or with the early point that Kent will not benefit at all from Crossrail. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Sir Michael Fallon) said, it will benefit, to the extent that it will have increased connectivity at Abbey Wood, with options to connect Southeastern services directly to the Elizabeth line.

[David Evennett]

Yes, a new franchise would be great and is desperately needed—at the moment it is so bad it cannot be believed—but the problem is the bigger picture: investment, regeneration and getting more homes, jobs and businesses into the area. That cannot be done just by improving a rail service that is inadequate at the moment.

[Joseph Johnson]

My right hon. Friend has long been a powerful champion for the completion of this extension and is continuing to be a strong advocate for it. All I can say is that the Department is looking forward to receiving the work of the commission and the full strategic outline business case so that we can give this proposal the fullest possible consideration.

In conclusion, I hope I have demonstrated the Government’s commitment to rail improvements and the wider regeneration in this area of the south-east.

Question put and agreed to.

Magor with Undy Walkway Station

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Monday 30th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

Let me start by congratulating the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) on securing this important debate about the proposed Magor with Undy walkway new station and on highlighting the good work done locally in her constituency to take this project forward. We understand how important stations are to passengers, but as well as providing access points to the network, they are often important to the wider community, especially in rural areas. We are therefore committed to providing funding to improve stations and provide new ones. For example, each franchise has funding set aside for station improvements, and we have continued the Access for All programme to improve disabled access to stations. As Members are no doubt aware, we have also run two funding competitions for our new stations fund and we have been able to make funding available to support the building or reopening of five new stations. Four of those are already complete, including Pye Corner in south Wales, and a fifth, Kenilworth, began running services this morning—this is the first time the town has had a rail service for more than 50 years.

Magor and Undy’s was one of the19 bids we received in 2016 for the latest—the second—round of new stations funding. As the hon. Lady said, the proposal was for a new, accessible, two-platform station to the east of Newport, between the Newport and Severn Tunnel Junction stations. The proposal was to run three trains every two hours in each direction. The project was promoted by the Magor Action Group On Rail—MAGOR—and Monmouthshire County Council. I understand it also had support from the Welsh Assembly Government. The bid met the initial qualifying criteria and we felt there was a good strategic case for the station, connecting a growing residential area to the rail network. The site is also in an area where the population is expanding rapidly and, clearly, a new station would bring employment, retail, healthcare, education and leisure opportunities closer for residents and would reduce traffic growth on congested local roads.

However, we felt that the bid needed some further development work before we could support it. No analysis of the financial business case could be carried out and we felt that the timetabling impact of the new station needed further modelling. Last year, as the hon. Lady said, officials from the Department met MAGOR, the county council and Network Rail to give feedback on the bid and to suggest how it could be progressed. Like her, I have been told that this was a very positive meeting, and my team were impressed with the knowledge and commitment of the promotors. I know from the MAGOR website that the development work is continuing, and I look forward to seeing a more developed proposal in the future.

As for how the project can be taken forward and funded, hon. Members will no doubt be aware that the Government recently announced that they would be taking a new approach to enhancements going forward. The rail network enhancements pipeline sets out further information on the new approach the Government are taking to enhance the railway across England and Wales. This establishes a pipeline that moves the investment in rail enhancements away from a rigid five-year cycle, creating instead a rolling programme of investment, focused on the outcomes that deliver real benefits to passengers, freight users and the economy.

Through the rail network enhancement pipeline, the Government are committed to considering the regional spread of the overall portfolio of investments when making decisions about individual enhancements, making use of the Department for Transport’s rebalancing toolkit, where appropriate. However, we recognise that in the Department we do not have a monopoly on good ideas, which is why we have recently announced a call for ideas for rail improvements. We would welcome proposals from the hon. Lady and from her constituents that are financially credible without Government support, including for stations.

The rail network enhancement pipeline makes it clear that the Government’s focus for investment will be on the outcomes that make a real difference to rail users, rather than on the specific infrastructure, rolling stock or technology interventions to achieve that. I note and welcome the fact that the Welsh Government are taking a similar passenger-benefits-focused approach to procurement for the south Wales metro and the decisions on the appropriate technologies for delivery.

The Department will continue to liaise closely with the Welsh Government on the development of enhancement options for England and Wales, to ensure that Welsh requirements for increased capacity on the network are fully reflected. I hope that the hon. Lady and other Members have been reassured that the Government remain committed to investment that will improve rail services and passenger experience in Wales.

Question put and agreed to.

Ministerial Correction

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Friday 27th April 2018 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I wish to inform the House that an error has been identified in the closing speech of the end-of-day debate on Thameslink upgrades across the south-east. [Official Report, 18 April 2018; Vol. 639, c.431]. The correct information should have been:

“As part of this upgrade, a fourth track and other improvements are being built north of Bedford, which will provide space for an additional train path from December 2020. Unfortunately, until these works take place, some difficult decisions have to be taken. East Midlands Trains’ fast peak-time services will not call at Bedford or Luton from May 2018 to December 2020.”

[HCWS650]

Draft Transport Levying Bodies (Amendment) Regulations 2018

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2018 General Committees

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Transport Levying Bodies (Amendment) Regulations 2018.

The draft regulations that we are considering today, if approved, would enable Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority to collect appropriate levies from its constituent councils to meet the costs of carrying out their transport functions. As only the upper-tier authorities—Cambridgeshire County Council and Peterborough City Council—have transport functions, the levy will fall solely on these authorities.

The seven constituent councils of the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority—the administrative areas of Cambridgeshire County Council, the City Councils for Cambridge and Peterborough and the District Councils for East Cambridgeshire, Fenland, Huntingdonshire and South Cambridgeshire—have led a local process to improve their governance arrangements, which culminated in this House and the other place agreeing orders that saw the establishment of the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority in March 2017.

This order gave effect to the desire of the local authorities in these areas to improve their joint working, including on transport matters. An order has since been made which provided for a Mayor to be elected in May 2017 to the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority. The elected Mayor is the chair of the Combined Authority. Combined authorities are designated as levying bodies under the Local Government Finance Act 1988. Under that Act, the Secretary of State is able to make regulations in relation to the expenses of combined authorities that are reasonably attributable to the exercise of its functions, including those relating to transport.

The upper-tier authorities—Cambridgeshire County Council and Peterborough City Council—will need to consider how they fund any levy issued by the combined authority as part of their budget process. They will need to take into account the impact of council tax levels in their area, including when determining whether any council tax increase is excessive.

These draft regulations have to establish how any transport levy would be apportioned between the upper-tier authorities if the combined authority could not reach agreement. In the event that they cannot agree, the combined authority will apportion the levy by taking into account previous levels of transport expenditure by the authorities. The regulations help to facilitate the provision of transport arrangements as part of the combined authority’s wider governance changes, and I commend them to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I shall try to answer the points made by the hon. Member for York Central about the need for a strategic plan. She asked how the levy would be spent and what sort of decision making would be required as the combined authority determined its transport priorities. The starting point is that the total levy that the combined authority requires will be determined annually by the authority, and will be subject to its agreed voting arrangements, which as the hon. Lady may know, require a two-thirds majority vote, subject to that majority including the votes of Cambridgeshire County Council and Peterborough City Council. So there would be democratic oversight of the funding requirement that the combined authority sought.

The hon. Lady asked about fragmentation of the system and what she saw as the lack of a guiding mind and therefore the potential emergence of confusion in the system. The Department and the Government as a whole take a bottom-up approach to devolution, recognising that local groups and communities are best placed to determine their specific needs and identify the kinds of benefits that they seek from the transport system. That approach means that, where places choose this approach, we will support them. The transport plan will inevitably be part of devolution deals with any combined authority such as the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority. We would expect to see a transport plan forming part of any devolution deal and settlement that is granted.

The levy will initially be set by agreement with the local authorities, and this power provides a fallback in the event of disagreement to ensure that the combined authority can continue to deliver transport functions into the future. The provision of these powers to the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority is, I hope the hon. Lady agrees, an example of this Government’s commitment to devolving to metropolitan Mayors, which will result in improved delivery of local transport.

The placing of this funding stream from two of its constituent authorities in statute will strengthen the ability of the combined authority and its elected Mayor to raise a levy and use this funding to take strategic decisions on transport investment across the region. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Transport

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2018 Ministerial Corrections

[Bim Afolami]

First, when was the decision made to make changes to East Midlands trains that would impact Harpenden? At what stage were changes to Harpenden’s services considered and decided upon?

[Joseph Johnson]

This has been one of the biggest timetabling changes the system has ever undertaken and, as I have said, it will not have satisfied everybody in its first iteration. However, December is coming along in not too lengthy a period of time, and hon. Members are always welcome to put suggestions to the Department and to their operators for consideration.

The impact of the midland main line works only became apparent to us in November 2017, as I mentioned. This short timeline meant that a specific consultation for Harpenden passengers was simply not a viable option.

[Official Report, 18 April 2018, Vol. 639, c. 437.]

Letter of correction from Joseph Johnson:

An error has been identified in the response I gave to the hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) during his Adjournment debate on Thameslink Upgrades.

The correct response should have been:

[Joseph Johnson]

This has been one of the biggest timetabling changes the system has ever undertaken and, as I have said, it will not have satisfied everybody in its first iteration. However, December is coming along in not too lengthy a period of time, and hon. Members are always welcome to put suggestions to the Department and to their operators for consideration.

The impact of the midland main line constraints only became apparent to us in November 2017, as I mentioned. This short timeline meant that a specific consultation for Harpenden passengers was simply not a viable option.

Draft Welsh Ministers (Transfer Of Functions) (Railways) Order 2018

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Monday 23rd April 2018 General Committees

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Welsh Ministers (Transfer of Functions) (Railways) Order 2018.

The draft order, laid before the House on 28 February, will transfer certain railway functions of the Secretary of State in relation to the Wales and Borders franchise to Welsh Ministers. The devolution of these powers takes forward one of the Silk commission’s recommendations and is an important part of our commitments in the St David’s Day Command Paper on a lasting devolution settlement for Wales. This debate is the culmination of the parliamentary phase for the draft order, but it will not surprise hon. Members to learn that a lot of hard work has brought us to this day, and I would like to recognise the efforts of both the Welsh and the UK Governments in that.

We have agreed with the Welsh Government that the order will transfer franchising functions to Welsh Ministers only in so far as they relate to Wales and Borders services and stations wholly within Wales, and to certain ancillary and related matters. Welsh Ministers’ statutory powers within Wales are to be supplemented by agency powers exercised on behalf of the Secretary of State for services in England up to the first station in Wales.

These proposed arrangements will enable Welsh Ministers to procure and manage a replacement franchise that, like the current franchise, includes important cross-border services to and from English towns and cities, as well as some services entirely within England, while providing appropriate accountability for the Secretary of State for rail services within England.

Both Governments intend, over the next couple of months, to conclude a suite of devolution agreements that will supplement the order. A series of agency agreements will set out conditions on the specification and management of the English part of the franchise. That will include a requirement for the Wales and Borders franchisee to set up a separate borders business unit to manage services and stations within England and act as a focal point for liaison with relevant local authorities, sub-national transport bodies and user groups. Further agreements will set out arrangements for partnership working in respect of the management of the new franchise, the relevant funding and outputs to be provided and the terms under which Welsh Ministers will, for the time being, subcontract to the Secretary of State the exercise of the operator-of-last-resort responsibilities transferred to them by the draft order.

Following careful consideration of the representations from hon. Members, I can guarantee that English residents and those who use the parts of the Wales and Borders franchise that are solely within England will continue to have a mechanism to make their views known to their elected representatives following devolution.

I wish to restate my Department’s commitment to the spirit and the terms of the devolution agreement secured with the Welsh Government in 2014. We have agreed in principle that the present franchise funding levels and arrangements between the Department and the Welsh Government are to continue.

Much positive and practical work has been done by both Governments in readiness for Welsh Ministers taking on greater responsibilities. Transport for Wales has been established by the Welsh Government to help to deliver the next Wales and Borders franchise and the South Wales Metro project, and my Department has provided extensive support to help to progress their franchising and metro proposals.

The procurement process for the next franchise is already well under way. Both Governments have worked together to deliver successfully a series of procurement milestones—most recently, the invitation to tender in September.

We have worked closely with the Welsh Government to ensure that the interests of passengers in England and Wales are protected following devolution. This approach will deliver appropriate accountability for both the UK and the Welsh Governments for rail services solely in their territories, while ensuring that the experience of passengers in terms of connectivity and quality of services will be maintained and improved. The Welsh Ministers have formally approved the draft order. I ask the Committee also to give its support.

--- Later in debate ---

[Joseph Johnson]

I thank all hon. Members for the points made. I will try to address as many of them as I can. I will happily write to Committee members afterwards about those I do not address now.

The Government are delivering on our commitment to give the Welsh Government greater control over Wales and Borders services. The devolution of these rail powers is an example of effective co-operation between the UK and Welsh Governments. An example of that effective co-operation is the cross-border working that is now under way. The UK and Welsh Governments are finalising a co-operation and collaboration agreement that will set out arrangements for partnership working in respect of the management of the next Wales and Borders franchise and the operation and procurement of passenger rail services operating in Wales by other franchises. That will include an enhanced consultation role for Welsh Ministers.

A number of questions were asked about the bidding process and the state of bids for the next franchise. The withdrawal of Arriva and Abellio from the bidding process is a matter for the Welsh Government, as they are now responsible for it. It is not uncommon for bidders for major projects to withdraw during tender processes. With final tenders due later this year, two bids remain in the running—MTR and KeolisAmey—which is sufficient to have a competitive process. The shadow Minister asked about the nature of the bidders allowed to participate in the process. The Railways Acts that she referred to do not prevent not-for-profit organisations from bidding for rail franchises. The Welsh Government were able to encourage bids from not-for-profit organisations for the current Wales and Borders franchise procurement.

The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr asked a number of questions about the devolution settlement and rail. The Government believe that it would be undesirable to reopen discussions on Silk recommendations on which there has not been a clear consensus. We do not intend to revisit the question of devolving Network Rail funding given the discussions on the issue during the St David’s Day process. The Department for Transport continues to liaise closely with the Welsh Government on the specification and funding of Network Rail’s operations in England and Wales for each five-year railway control period to ensure that Welsh requirements for increased capacity on the network are reflected. As part of Network Rail’s devolution arrangements, the Welsh Government will be represented on the Wales route supervisory board within Network Rail, and the board will work in partnership to drive improvements for customers in the Wales and Borders area and to hold industry to account.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about delays to the devolution process and the amount of time it has taken to get us to this place. The delay in transferring rail powers to Welsh Ministers has not adversely affected the procurement process for the next franchise. The formal transfer of powers has required the resolution of a number of detailed policy and practical considerations on cross-border services that has taken longer than anticipated. However, as I hope we have illustrated, we have been working closely with the Welsh Government throughout to ensure that they can proceed in a timely manner with the franchise procurement. The ongoing procurement of the next franchise, as I said in my opening remarks, is being facilitated through agency agreements enabling Welsh Ministers to exercise the Secretary of State’s relevant functions in advance of the draft order being made.

Members also asked about Government spending on the railways in Wales overall. The Department for Transport continues to liaise closely with the Welsh Government on the specification and funding of Network Rail’s operations in England and Wales for each five-year railway control period to ensure that requirements in Wales for increased capacity on that bit of the network are reflected. We are investing a record amount in Wales’s rail infrastructure. Network Rail’s proposed budget for control period 6, which runs from 2019 to 2024, is more than £1.3 billion. As Members know, we do not allocate transport funding in England and Wales on a per-head-of-population basis, and the Wales route is not being short-changed. Our spending goes where it is most needed and where it delivers the greatest value for money. We make decisions based on rigorous and fair appraisal processes that ensure just that.

The hon. Member for York Central asked about electrification and Cardiff and Swansea in particular. We remain committed to delivering the right outcomes for rail transport in Wales. As Ministers have said before, however, we will only commit to electrifying lines where it will genuinely provide a real benefit to passengers. A recent reappraisal of electrification between Cardiff and Swansea found it to be poor value for money, with a benefit-to-cost ratio of just 0.3. The introduction of the bi-mode intercity express trains means that we no longer need to electrify the Great Western route between Cardiff and Swansea. We are improving journeys for passengers in south Wales sooner than expected, without the need to carry out disruptive electrification works along the Great Western route between Cardiff and Swansea.

[Jonathan Edwards]

If the bi-mode trains are so good, can I take it that it will be bi-mode trains running on HS2?

[Joseph Johnson]

I will not be drawn on the procurement decisions for HS2 at this point. The point I wanted to make, and made, was that the bi-mode trains on this stretch of the network will deliver substantially the same benefits for passengers that electrification would, at considerably better value for money.

[Rachael Maskell]

I am grateful to the Minister for that answer, but does he agree that it will not provide equivalence to electrification on that part of the network?

[Joseph Johnson]

Clearly it will not be the same as electrification, because it will not require the disruptive works overhead, the gantries and so on, which would have affected passenger journeys. The introduction of the new bi-mode trains will, however, deliver substantially the same passenger benefits and, as I said in response to the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, at considerably better value for taxpayers.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I travel on that line every week to come down to London. The busiest section both ways in terms of passenger numbers is the journey between Swansea and Cardiff, the two major cities in Wales. The journey time now with the new trains is longer than it was with the old trains, because the new trains are far larger and take more time to slow down when entering stations such as Port Talbot and Bridgend before they enter Cardiff.

--- Later in debate ---

[Joseph Johnson]

There is no escaping the fact that the benefit-to-cost ratio on electrification between Cardiff and Swansea was just 0.3. No Government can reasonably be expected to finance a project with that kind of value for money for taxpayers. It would be irresponsible to do so.

[John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con)]

Can I reassure the Minister that, for those of us whose constituencies are on branch lines going south from Bristol, which could have been severely disrupted by a half-and-half fleet of fully electric and bi-mode trains—because whenever anything broke down it would not be possible to substitute one for the other—the advent of a completely bi-mode fleet is substantially better, in terms of resilience of service, for everybody surrounding Bristol?

[Joseph Johnson]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. Once the whole of the new fleet is introduced and electrification to Cardiff is complete, passengers will benefit from a 40% increase in the number of seats in the morning peak and significantly better journey times between Swansea, London and other stations along the route, which will be about 15 minutes shorter than they currently are.

TEN-T was mentioned. It recognises strategic transport routes in the EU. It is not clear at this point how TEN-T will be treated post Brexit, but that will become clearer in coming weeks. As I said, the devolution of these rail powers is an example of close and effective co-operation between the UK and Welsh Governments.

[Rachael Maskell]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way one more time. Will he acknowledge that the devolution deal in place here is less than the deal with Scotland? Can he explain why it is that the Welsh Government will not have full power over the future of its economy as well as serving the passengers of Wales?

[Joseph Johnson]

We are committed to devolution, and to the devolution process, but we do not want to go, in one small bit of secondary legislation, beyond the consensus that was agreed during the St David’s Day process. That needs to be considered as part of a coherent look at devolution settlements in the future.

Like hon. Members, I want to see improved rail services for passengers in England and Wales. I hope that hon. Members will agree that the devolution approach we have chosen recognises the inherently joint nature of a significant proportion of the Wales and Borders franchise, and ensures that the current extensive cross-border links can be maintained and developed for the benefit of passengers and the Welsh and English border economies. We will continue to support the Welsh Government to enable them to achieve the successful procurement of the next franchise. I commend the draft order to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Welsh Ministers (Transfer of Functions) (Railways) Order 2018.

Thameslink Upgrades

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Wednesday 18th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) on securing this debate, which follows on from our conversations in meetings we held on 22 March.

I begin with the specific issue of the changes to the timetable. Harpenden is on the midland main line, which runs from London to Nottingham and Sheffield and, as Members know, is undergoing its largest upgrade since it was built in the 19th century. The upgrade is necessary and urgent, as the number of passenger journeys taken on Britain’s rail network has doubled in the past 20 years. As part of the upgrade, a fourth track is being built north of Bedford to Kettering and will provide space for an additional train path from December 2020. Unfortunately, to allow the works to take place, some difficult decisions have had to be taken.

East Midlands Trains fast peak-time services will not call at Bedford or Luton from May 2018 to December 2020. Instead, displaced East Midlands Trains passengers from Bedford and Luton will be able to travel on fast Thameslink services, which will not stop at Harpenden. In answer to my hon. Friend’s first question, the decision was made in November 2017, once the industry had exhausted all alternative options.

Obviously, I completely understand the concerns of commuters from my hon. Friend’s constituency. However, steps have been taken so that, despite the unavoidable loss of two fast peak services, overall the capacity from Harpenden in the morning will be roughly the same as today, with only four fewer carriages across the entire three-hour morning peak. There will be an increase in capacity during the evening peak, with an additional 20 carriages bringing an additional 1,242 seats. In addition, it is expected that most Bedford commuters will opt to take the fast Thameslink services, rather than those that stop at Harpenden. It is possible that that will reduce, rather than increase, crowding on Harpenden services.

My hon. Friend raises the issue of St Albans City station, which requires a capacity increase because, as he acknowledges, it carries twice as many passengers as Harpenden and already has issues of its own with crowding on platforms. On the potential for engineering works in Kent to delay the improvements to Harpenden, these are minor works and are currently on schedule to be completed on time. There is minimal risk to passengers from Harpenden.

From December 2018, an additional service will be scheduled in both the morning and evening peaks, and two trains will be lengthened from eight to 12 carriages. That will provide a capacity increase in both peaks. From December 2020, when the upgrade to the midland main line is complete, Thameslink will reinstate the fast services that have been withdrawn and will add four more 12-car peak services at Harpenden, resulting in an additional two fast 12-car trains per hour compared with the May timetable. That will provide a substantially improved service for Harpenden commuters.

I apologise again to my hon. Friend as the full benefits of the Thameslink programme will be delayed for commuters from his constituency. In the context of the major engineering works necessary to bring the midland main line into the 21st century, this was the best available solution. We should also not lose sight of the many benefits the Thameslink programme will bring to passengers from Harpenden and the wider Thameslink network: new trains; more reliable journeys; and a substantial increase in capacity from 2020.

My hon. Friend mentioned the problems with consultation, which, again, we have discussed extensively in our previous meetings. I would like to emphasise that ahead of this timetable change Thameslink has carried out one of the largest and, in some ways, most effective consultations we have ever seen on the railways. In fact, as a result of these consultations, Thameslink has made hundreds of changes to its plans.

[Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)]

May I endorse what the Minister has just said, in that we see a net benefit in my constituency from the changes to the timetable and I have encountered constituents who are very impressed with changes that have been made as a result of the consultation? However, like my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami), one station, in particular, in my constituency is losing services during that critical peak time, when people need to get into London to work. In addition to dealing with the questions he has been asked, will the Minister assure the House that this issue will continue to be kept under review and we will be able to look at it again when we see the full import of the timetable and its impact on our commuters?

[Joseph Johnson]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing to our attention the issues faced by his constituents, particularly at Balcombe station. There will be further opportunities to lobby for changes to the timetable at the next iteration; May’s is obviously set in stone, but there will always be a December timetable and subsequent timetables, so these things are not set in stone. This has been one of the biggest timetabling changes the network has ever seen and, understandably, not everything is going to satisfy everybody at every moment in time.

[Mr Shuker]

I am extremely grateful to hear that from the Minister. Of course, it is a rolling series of timetable changes over the next three years, at six-monthly intervals. Members in this House will be extremely grateful to hear the Minister’s willingness to keep a close eye on things at each of those timetable changes, rather than necessarily relying on the plan as it currently stands to go for two and a half years.

[Joseph Johnson]

This has been one of the biggest timetabling changes the system has ever undertaken, and as I have said, it will not have satisfied everybody in its first iteration. However, December is coming along in not too lengthy a period of time, and hon. Members are always welcome to put suggestions to the Department and to their operators for consideration.

[Official Report, 24 April 2018, Vol. 639, c. 5MC.]The impact of the midland main line works only became apparent to us in November 2017, as I mentioned. This short timeline meant that a specific consultation for Harpenden passengers was simply not a viable option. To give my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden some background, the detailed work to implement the May timetable on the Thameslink routes began more than a year ago. This timetable rewrite is unprecedented in its scale. Every service on this part of the network is being altered to bring about the full benefits of the Thameslink programme. As work progressed, the Department was advised that there were likely to be some temporary negative impacts on some services as a result of the complexity of this undertaking. By the time this became clear, it would have been disingenuous to consult, as he acknowledged, as there was by that stage only one viable option before us. Since that point, industry professionals have been working to address as many of these negative effects as physically possible. Although it has not been possible to eliminate them all, the industry will continue to work to improve the timetable at every subsequent opportunity.

As an MP whose constituency sits on the Thameslink network, I share many of the concerns that have been raised in this debate. However, we should not lose sight of the fact that the Thameslink programme is an incredibly ambitious investment, which will transform travel across the south-east for the coming decades. We have already seen new trains rolled out across the Thameslink network, replacing trains that were first introduced in the 1980s. The new trains carry far more people and will allow Thameslink to meet the demand of a 21st-century city. These trains have live information screens so that passengers know if their tube line is delayed. These trains have wide entrances and gangways, making it easier for passengers to move around and get on and off the train. We have also already seen substantial investment in stations. The £1 billion redevelopment of London Bridge is perhaps the best known, but investments have been made across the network so that the benefits of the Thameslink programme can be felt across the whole south-east. We have also seen substantial investment in infrastructure upgrades, including the replacement of tracks and signals and the repair of tunnels and bridges. This means that passengers will get the resilient and reliable service that they deserve.

Question put and agreed to.

Cotswold Line Upgrades

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Wednesday 28th March 2018 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Robert Courts) on securing the debate and providing us with an opportunity to discuss upgrades to the Cotswold line. As always, he and my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Nigel Huddleston) have demonstrated their hard-won reputations as extremely focused and dedicated constituency MPs.

All rail services in Witney are provided by Great Western Railway under the Great Western franchise. The debate is timely, as the hon. Gentlemen noted, because it is a little more than a month since the conclusion of the Department for Transport consultation on the future of the franchise. I am delighted that we received more than 800 responses, demonstrating the importance that passengers and stakeholders attach to rail services. The Department is analysing the considerable volume of responses and will respond later this year.

My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire, with the support of our colleague my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin), raised the question of splitting the franchise. I should like to emphasise that, at this point, the Department has made no decisions. Any decision in favour of such a split would need to be made on the basis of real benefits, including to passengers.

It has been suggested that Cotswold line services could be split off to the operator as a separate franchise, with comparisons being drawn with the Chiltern Railways franchise. Such a comparison is not straightforward, and certainly not as straightforward as it would seem on paper—the Chiltern franchise operates close to 10 times as many train services as those on the Cotswold line. Having said that, the Department will look at all suggestions made in response to its consultation. I am grateful for the thoughtful way in which my hon. Friends made those suggestions.

Billions of pounds are being spent to upgrade services for passengers on the Great Western franchise. They aim to improve significantly the services experienced by a hundred million passengers a year, serving them all the way from London to Penzance and from Portsmouth to Worcester. The improvements will include brand new electric and bi-mode trains that will provide many more seats and more comfortable journeys, while timetable changes will mean faster and more frequent trips on many routes by 2019. The new intercity express trains have started operating on the Cotswold line, replacing the older high-speed trains and other types of train. The same trains will operate all fast services between Oxford and London Paddington, complementing those operating on the Cotswold line, ensuring through services on 125 mph trains, even though it has been necessary to defer electrification of the line north of Didcot to Oxford.

The Government have decided to extend the franchise, as the hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) noted, for the current operator GWR until March 2020, to make sure passengers get the best possible service while these upgrades are carried out. The Department for Transport will seek to agree terms for GWR to continue operating until 2022, which will allow the improved services to bed in fully before running a competition for a new long-term franchise.

On the future of the Cotswold line, in his response to the Department’s consultation, my hon. Friend the Member for Witney made many detailed comments about what he considers should be the priorities for the development of the route. Given how Hanborough has developed as a key access station for fast-growing communities in west Oxfordshire such as Witney, he focused on the developments and the train services he rightly would like at that station. Today, six services from Hanborough arrive at Oxford in the morning peak. He argues for an even more frequent service. He rightly recognises the importance of science to the economic development of the area by asking for some trains to run direct on a reopened route to Cowley, serving the important area around the Oxford science park. Those improvements and others highlighted in his response to the Department’s consultation would require substantial further development of the rail infrastructure in the area, as he noted.

I have seen with interest the formation of the north Cotswold line taskforce, which brings together a wide range of interested parties along the whole route. It would have seemed incredible 20 years ago to aim for a half-hourly service with far shorter journey times. That could be made possible only by a combination of the infrastructure upgrades we are putting in place, including further redoubling of the remaining sections of single track, and the division of the train service into a new regular express service supplemented by slower trains that stop at the smaller stations. I am particularly struck by how the taskforce thinks creatively about financing options and does not simply assume that the only feasible option is more Network Rail control period spending.

The taskforce’s work and my hon. Friend’s response to the Great Western consultation also highlight that rail is seen as a real and valuable alternative to the car. He put centre stage in his concerns the regular serious congestion on the A40 and other roads in his constituency, and rightly addressed modal shift.

Those who have attended recent rail debates will know that the Government are careful to ensure that they do not commit too early to specific projects in Network Rail’s control period 6, which starts in April 2019. I cannot commit at this stage to the project that my hon. Friend advocated so powerfully, because the control period 6 process remains under way, as does the rest of our analysis of responses to the Great Western consultation.

Elsewhere in my hon. Friend’s reply to that consultation, he raised the prospect of a new station at Yarnton in his constituency. I referred to the Department’s new rail strategy, “Connecting people”, which was published in November last year, which makes it clear that, as with the reopening of lines, a strong business case needs to be demonstrated where Government funding is sought for new facilities. The Government will consider proposals on a case-by-case basis, based on the economic benefits put forward by local partners.

My hon. Friend also mentioned the Tackley station crossing. The debate has focused mostly on train services, but that crossing is important. It is a passenger level crossing on a busy cross-country route with many passenger and freight trains, and it is used not just by users of the station, but by locals who want to cross the line and walkers who want to access the Oxford canal walk and the Oxfordshire way. As he mentioned, some years ago it was the site of the tragic death of a user. I recognise that it is not the easiest location at which to provide a safer alternative that is as accessible for all users, but we are encouraging Network Rail and local users to engage in a constructive dialogue so that we can find an acceptable outcome.

Hon. Members raised the issue of operational performance, which is obviously a critical question for passengers. When the Secretary of State announced the control period 6 funding for Network Rail last July, he put particular focus on better performance. The Government are determined that the railway should become more focused on issues that matter most to passengers, including punctuality and reliability. A more reliable railway would play a critical role in underpinning economic growth and bringing the country together, which is why the Government are committed to taking action to achieve those outcomes. My hon. Friend expressed forcefully the rising concern among his constituents about the level of cancellations on some GWR routes. It is critical that GWR does everything it can to minimise disruption to services and to address passenger concerns when services are cancelled.

On my hon. Friend’s points about integration and a more holistic approach to public transport, I draw hon. Members’ attention to the smart ticketing initiatives that are under way. Those projects have considerable potential to promote cross-modal use and intermodal shift more broadly. A GWR scheme is in place, and we are looking to develop that more broadly across the country.

[Rachael Maskell]

Will the Minister update the House on progress on smart ticketing? I am sure all passengers are interested in that.

[Joseph Johnson]

I am happy to update the hon. Lady. Good progress continues to be made on the smart ticketing initiative, and we continue to hope that the smart ticketing system will be in place in full across the network by the end of the year. That is our objective, and it is crucial to ensuring that we get all the benefits that modern technology offers our rail system.

Overall, rail users in Witney and Mid-Worcestershire have much to be hopeful about. Brand new trains are already being introduced, building on the improvements to timetables and stations in recent years. The Cotswold line has come a long way in the past 25 years, but there is clearly considerable potential for it to be further upgraded and developed. My hon. Friend the Member for Witney and groups such as the Cotswold Line Promotion Group and the north Cotswold line taskforce are powerful advocates for change and improvement. Between them, they have an exceptional record of achievement on behalf of the travelling public. The Cotswold line deserves the best possible rail service, which is what the Department is determined to provide.

British Transport Police/ Police Scotland Merger

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2018 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Joseph Johnson)]

I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) on securing today’s debate on this important subject. I am aware of his long-standing interest in this matter, both as a Member of this House and previously while a Member of the Scottish Parliament. Before setting out the Government’s position, I would like to make a point that I am sure we all agree about: that the continuing safety and security of the travelling public and of the staff who work on our railways must remain our No. 1 priority in this matter.

As hon. Members will be aware, the decision to devolve the functions of the British Transport police honours the cross-party Smith commission agreement, which explicitly set out that

“the functions of the British Transport Police in Scotland will be a devolved matter”.

The Scotland Act 2016 gives effect to that recommendation. Legislative competence for railway policing in Scotland has been devolved. The Scottish Government have stated their intention to integrate the Scotland Division of the BTP into Police Scotland, and the Scottish Parliament has passed legislation setting out the Scottish Government’s plans for the future policing of the railway. The process of devolution is therefore under way. It is now for the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament to use the powers they have been given.

For our part, the UK Government are committed to devolution and to delivering the Smith commission’s recommendations in full. We have been working closely and effectively with the Scottish Government, the two police forces and the two police authorities through a joint programme board, which has been established to oversee the delivery process. We want to see a smooth transition to the new arrangements for policing the railways, with the focus on ensuring that the safety and security of rail passengers and staff remain at the forefront of the process and that the UK’s interests are fully recognised and protected.

Significant progress has been made on a number of aspects of integration, including in preparing the secondary legislation that will transfer those BTP officers and staff currently responsible for policing the railways in Scotland to Police Scotland, and on mapping their terms and conditions. The hon. Member for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield) asked when we would lay the orders in question. We had planned to lay them in the autumn, but given the delay until a new plan and timeline for the project has been determined, we do not know now when we will lay them.

It needs to be said that any deferral will be for a period of one or perhaps more years, because of the contractual arrangements through which policing costs are recovered by the British Transport police authority from train operators. The transfer can take place only at the start of any given financial year, so we need Police Scotland, working with the BTPA, to commit to a specific, achievable deadline by when it will be operationally ready to deliver the transferred functions, as and when it is in a position to actually receive them. That timeline must work for the BTPA, ensuring that the BTP can continue to focus on its critical activities.

We have been very clear throughout this process that it is our intention that the transfer should take place on an as is basis, ensuring that transferring officers and staff see no change in their terms and status. My hon. Friend the Member for Moray and the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) mentioned pensions. We are currently working with the pension trustees on how best to deliver the commitment that pensions will be preserved. The question is how that can be best achieved while ensuring that costs fall where they should. The UK cannot cross-subsidise police pensions in Scotland after the transfer.

Last month, the joint programme board was advised by Police Scotland and the BTPA that a number of significant operational issues remain to be resolved, and that the scheduled transfer date of 1 April 2019 could not be achieved without undue risk to rail staff and passengers, with further time needed to deliver integration most effectively and safely for railway passengers, staff and officers.

In particular, a number of issues were raised about the integration of critical functions, such as ICT, with Police Scotland’s systems. Police Scotland has found itself unprepared to receive the transfer. Scottish Ministers accepted that advice, and a detailed re-planning exercise, supported by external advisors, will now take place to ensure that robust delivery plans are in place and to establish a new delivery date. That will allow also for increased engagement with both industry and staff.

I welcome the Scottish Government’s decision to listen to concerns and criticism and to agree to delay the transfer. I also recognise the concerns raised by hon. Members about Police Scotland’s ability to take on railway policing. Our No. 1 priority remains the safety of the public, and all parties agree that the transfer cannot take place until it is safe for that to happen. However, let me be clear: this is a delay to an agreed process. The Scottish Government have been clear that the transfer will still happen—that is their decision—but only when they are satisfied that all of the necessary actions have been completed. 

I must again emphasise that this is devolution at work. The Scottish Government have the power to take decisions and therefore have to take responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. For our part, the UK Government remain fully committed to delivering the devolution of railway policing, and will in due course bring forward the secondary legislation required in the UK Parliament to enable that to happen.

I assure hon. Members that, as with any effective relationship, we will continue to be absolutely clear and frank with our partners in the Scottish Government as this process continues.

[Ian Murray]

The Minister talks about being open and frank with his colleagues in the Scottish Government. Will he therefore use this time, while the integration programme has been paused because of the reasons outlined, to look at the commissioning model that seems to have support across the industry and the House, and to impress on those colleagues, through frank and open discussions, that that model might be the best way forward?

[Joseph Johnson]

Railway policing has now been devolved to Scotland, and it is therefore the domain and the prerogative of the Scottish Government to determine how best those responsibilities can be discharged. The commissioning route that the hon. Gentleman prefers is not the policy choice of the Scottish Government. It is now for them to deliver on devolution and to make it work as best they can, with the UK Government playing a supporting role.

[Mr Sweeney]

Does the Minister agree that devolution is not necessarily about the Scottish Government having full oversight of this, and that there is nothing to stop those of us with electoral mandates to represent the people of Scotland from offering a view? The UK Government should also not shrink from offering their preferred view of what should happen. This is not the nature or the spirit of the collaboration that should underpin devolution.

[Joseph Johnson]

We will continue to work collaboratively with our colleagues in Scotland to ensure the smooth transfer of powers. We all have the interests and the safety of the passengers and the staff working on our railways at heart. We want to put in place sustainable and endurable arrangements within the framework of law set by the devolution settlement.

I assure hon. Members that, working through the joint programme board, we will be ready to challenge the approach where it is necessary to do so in the interests of passengers, officers and staff and the security of the country. We will continue to ensure that the UK’s interests are fully protected, including by ensuring that the critical, specialist work of the BTP in England and Wales continues to protect rail users and staff.