Returning Jihadists: Treason Act

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Thursday 21st February 2019 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to update the Treason Act 1351 to prosecute returning jihadists.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, to prosecute terrorists for treason risks giving their actions a political status or glamour that they do not deserve, rather than treating them as merely criminals. The Government have just passed the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act, which updates terrorism offences and introduces new powers to reflect the threat we face today from foreign terrorist fighters. This will provide the police and the intelligence services with the powers they need to protect the public.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, while no one would want to glamorise any of the crimes that we are talking about here, nevertheless does the Minister not agree that those who have justified the murder of other British citizens through, for instance, the bombing of the Manchester Arena in 2017 and people who have taken up arms or given succour to those who have targeted British forces and civilians have betrayed this country, its people, its values and its laws?

Given the conflicting conclusions of the Law Commission reviews of 1977 and 2010, is it not time to provide a solid legal basis rather than the 1351 Act for prosecuting hundreds of returning jihadists, perhaps in line with the conclusions of the Policy Exchange paper by Professor Richard Ekins of the University of Oxford and others, with a foreword by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, which I have sent to the Minister? Would not this, and the creation of a regional tribunal to prosecute for crimes of genocide, demonstrate our unerring and passionate belief in the rule of law, and that those responsible for heinous crimes cannot expect to evade prosecution?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally agree with the noble Lord that anyone committing atrocities such as the Manchester attack—I was in Manchester at that time—should not escape justice. I commend the Policy Exchange paper, and I think that the noble Lord would agree that the Home Secretary has said that he will review all the laws we have at hand. However, if the noble Lord looks at the recent counterterrorism Bill which has now become an Act, I am sure that he will agree that the new powers available in that Act might in the future prevent some of the terrible things that we have seen in recent months. On a regional tribunal, I am not sure how practicable that would be given the situation in some parts of the region.

Zimbabwe: Asylum Seekers

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord has hit on something that the Government acknowledge—there are risks to certain people who oppose the ruling ZANU-PF Government. That does not extend to all people, but when determining an asylum claim, all things are taken into consideration and no one will be returned if it is not safe to return them.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House how many Zimbabweans there are in the United Kingdom who might be subjected to deportation? Given what has been said by the noble Lords, Lord Chidgey and Lord Kennedy, about the continuing arrests, abductions, torture and beatings—and the serious concerns expressed not just in the UK, but around the world—would it not be prudent in the meantime to suspend deportations until those issues have been more thoroughly considered?

Migrant Crossings: Naval Assets

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

No, my Lords, we are not.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister reconsider the Written Answer she gave me last week about some of the Iranians who have fled their own country because of persecution, or even because they were facing execution for reasons such as religious belief or coming from particularly at-risk minorities? She said that it would be impossible to carry out a manual count of those who have come across the channel and look at the reasons why they have come, to identify whether they are economic migrants or genuine refugees fleeing persecution.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

When I wrote to the noble Lord saying that we could not do that, it was simply because the data was not available to disaggregate, but I will look at his Written Question again and see whether I can give him any further information.

Overseas Aid

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 30th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I pay tribute to the work of my noble friend as Overseas Development Minister some time ago, before that commitment was met. She is right: health is absolutely central. We need to work in partnership, and that is the reason why we work with the World Health Organization, the Gavi alliance and the Global Fund in doing precisely that work.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the World Bank estimates that some 800 million people are racked by starvation, despair or living below any rational definition of human decency. The Minister is right to remind us that, as long ago as 1970, in Resolution 2626, the United Nations urged us to find this 0.7% figure. Does he agree that people expect their money to be spent well? I draw his attention to a Question that I asked him on the Order Paper today concerning discrimination and persecution in countries such as Pakistan, which is the biggest recipient of British aid—£383,000 each and every single day. Will he ensure that where British money is being spent, it will tackle the plight of minorities, particularly by preventing people from religious minorities from being subjected to discrimination, persecution and even genocide?

[Lord Bates]

I am delighted to give that reassurance. This Government have been at the fore on this issue. The Prime Minister has made announcements on it and has appointed her first Special Envoy on Freedom of Religion or Belief, my noble friend Lord Ahmad. We are proud of that, and we have to uphold, keep to and maintain those standards.

Yemen

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Thursday 20th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Yes, we would expect that to happen. The latest data we have is from November, with 60% of food and in particular fuel coming in through that port. We have been monitoring it very closely. The agreement in Stockholm requires a weekly update back to the UN Secretary-General to see what is happening with delivery on the ground. I am sure he will follow that closely.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in the aftermath of this welcome ceasefire the rebels said that they might provide maps and details of where IEDs, landmines and booby traps have been laid. That would obviously save many lives if it could be facilitated. Also, could the Minister say whether good will gestures such as the exchange of prisoners might take place as well?

[Lord Bates]

That provision of maps is an essential precursor to the delivery of humanitarian aid. There is about 140 miles of very remote, rough countryside between those two ports. If goods and people are to travel along it delivering aid, it is essential that they can do so in safety. It is a condition of the Stockholm agreement.

Health: Tuberculosis

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

As the noble Lord knows, most of our giving, which is very generous, on behalf of the British taxpayer is through the global fund, and we believe that that multilateral body is the most effective way of delivering support. We are the second-largest donor to it, giving £1.2 billion in the current round, which is helping to treat 2.2 million people, so we continue to keep that as our focus. Of course, we will keep under review the advice from the World Health Organization about whether there are specific bilateral programmes that we ought to support more.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister update the House on the reply he gave me on 2 November about the serious shortage of TB drugs in Uganda? While he is doing that, could he return to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about the integration of HIV and TB services, as recommended by the World Health Organization? Are we doing that? What are we doing about the $1.3 billion funding gap in research?

[Lord Bates]

I believe that the specific case in Uganda, which the noble Lord raised with me, has now been resolved through the Global Drug Facility. A six-month supply of the drug has been provided, following the closure of the factory in China which was the principal supplier. We keep that under review through the World Health Organization. The noble Lord also asked what more we could be doing in that area to close the funding gap. The Secretary of State, Penny Mordaunt, attended a very successful UN General Assembly high-level meeting specifically on tackling TB at the margins, where a target was set for a level of treatment and funding. At that event, the Secretary of State also announced further funding, from us, of £7.5 million for the TB Alliance.

Asia Bibi

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what response they have made to requests to assist in the (1) safe passage and resettlement of, and (2) granting of asylum to Asia Bibi and her family.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the release of Asia Bibi will be very welcome news to her family and to all those who have campaigned for her freedom. We welcome the ongoing assurances that the Government of Pakistan have given on keeping her and her family safe. As a matter of policy, and in accordance with our duty of confidentiality, the Government do not comment on individual cases. Departing from this policy may put individuals and their family members in danger.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Is it not passing strange that while other Governments, 200 parliamentarians and the leader writers of national newspapers have all spoken powerfully and clearly calling for asylum to be granted to Asia Bibi, we take Trappist vows of silence? Recalling that Shahbaz Bhatti, who was the Minister for Minorities, and Salmaan Taseer, who was the Muslim governor of Punjab, were murdered for insisting on the innocence of Asia Bibi, does the Minister share my huge admiration for Pakistan’s Chief Justice Mian Saqib Nisar and Justice Asif Saeed Khan Khosa, both of whom I met recently in Islamabad, who courageously and with great integrity acquitted and exonerated Asia Bibi, who was wrongfully sentenced to death and incarcerated for nine years? Does not their refusal to be dictated to by lynch mobs while we fail to offer asylum because of what Tom Tugendhat, the chairman of the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, says is a fear of reprisals, undermine our belief in justice, human rights, the rule of law and religious freedom, and endanger us falling foul of, and succumbing, to blackmail?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I know the noble Lord will understand that I cannot comment on most of the points that he has made.

Development Co-operation: European Union

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend is absolutely right. The trade preferences element of the economic partnerships have already been covered by legislation which we passed in this House in September on taxation and cross-border trade. We are currently negotiating seven economic partnership arrangements impacting on 29 countries. When the Prime Minister was in Africa, she announced the first, which had been agreed with the Southern African Customs Union and Mozambique. We are working to achieve more, because we passionately believe that one of the best routes out of poverty is trade, prosperity and giving people free access to our developed markets. That will continue to be the policy of Her Majesty’s Government.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, as the Minister looks at future markers for development, with the approaching 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, will he look particularly at Article 18 and what it has to say about the right to believe, not to believe or to change belief? Professor Brian Grim says that those countries which respect those things become the most prosperous. How, therefore, do we justify spending £2.8 billion over the past 20 years in a country such as Pakistan which, as the case of Asia Bibi has shown, has no regard for minorities or the rule of law?

[Lord Bates]

My Lords, that is the reason why that funding predominantly goes to the education of young girls in Pakistan which, we hope, will contribute to change in future. I hope that the noble Lord will welcome two major initiatives announced following the Prime Minister’s commitment to act in this area. The first was the appointment of my noble friend Lord Ahmad as the Prime Minister’s special envoy on freedom of religion or belief, and the second was a meeting at the Foreign Office last week, where we announced the successful bidders for a £12 million DfID fund to promote freedom of religion and belief. That shows how clear and committed the Government are from the very top.

India: Scavenging

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 6th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

It is inextricably linked to the caste system, as we have said. The economy of India is one of the fastest-growing in the world and, in all likelihood, will become the third-largest economy in some 10 years. It is still presently home to one-third of the world’s poor, and 600 million people do not have access to basic sanitation.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, notwithstanding the 2013 legislation, the caste system and untouchability predate partition. Scavenging and degrading labour have persisted right across the Indian subcontinent, including in Pakistan. Is the Minister aware that, only last week, a 13 year-old was excluded from a classroom because he had touched the water supply in that classroom? He was beaten and his mother was told he had no place in that school because he was only fit for menial and degrading jobs. Is not this issue of untouchability also to be seen in the case of Asia Bibi, who has spent nine years in prison having touched the communal water supply in her village? She has been exonerated by the courts in Pakistan, yet is still held in custody and not allowed to leave that country. We have spent £2.8 billion over the past 20 years on overseas aid to Pakistan—that is £383,000 every single working day. What difference is that money making to the treatment of minorities and the abolition of things such as caste?

[Lord Bates]

It is making a big difference. I am certainly aware of these cases, because the noble Lord has made me aware of them, and I am grateful to him for that. We are looking at them and following up. The reality is that both Pakistan and India are signatories to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That has some very specific language in Article 18, which talks about recognising that all people are equal and that discrimination is against the law. It is also against their constitutions. We need to work with the Governments of these countries to ensure that they uphold the very laws they have—and we will continue to do that.

Asylum Applications

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Monday 15th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think I outlined the process to my noble friend, but the noble Baroness is right to point out that you can be LGBT and have a religion. The care with which asylum case decision-makers make their judgments is very important, as are the sensitivities around interviewing LGBT people and those who are persecuted for their faith.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, having visited Pakistan earlier this month and seen first-hand the abject, festering conditions in which many of the country’s religious minorities live, and having heard accounts of abduction, rape, the forced marriage of a nine year-old, forced conversion, death sentences for so-called blasphemy—the Minister may have heard the interview on the “Today” programme on Saturday morning with a young woman whose mother has spent eight years on death row for so-called blasphemy with a death sentence hanging over her—and in one case, children being forced to watch as their parents were burned alive, I ask the Minister: how can the Home Office in all those circumstances continue to say that what is happening in Pakistan to religious believers and humanists is merely discrimination, not persecution?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not think I or the House would disagree with the noble Lord in the examples that he cites, particularly those in Pakistan of certain religious groups being persecuted under blasphemy laws. Sadly, the laws in Pakistan are quite different from the laws here; unpalatable though we might find them, they are the laws there. Nevertheless, each application to our asylum system should be dealt with in terms of the persecution that people might face.