House of Lords Commission
Debate between Lord Blunkett and Baroness Smith of Basildon(3 years, 11 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Lord Blunkett (Lab)
My Lords, I ask the Senior Deputy Speaker a very simple question: who will interpret the word “impossible”? It is certainly true that without my own assistant it would be impossible for me to continue in this House and do my duties—there is no question about that—but there will be grey areas in relation to Members. Is it going to be decided by officials of this House, by the House of Lords Commission or by the Procedure Committee?
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, first, I thank the Senior Deputy Speaker. I raised concerns about the earlier draft, and he has listened to those and come back with what I think is a very workable and proper report. I wonder sometimes whether the term “staff passes” is quite as accurate for Peers as it is for Members of the House of Commons. I assume that “staff passes” is used for continuity and clarity about access because, for most Peers who have a staff pass, it will be not for a member of staff but for an assistant, and quite often a volunteer. However, I think the proposal we have here is the right way forward.
On what my noble friend Lord Blunkett said about what is “impossible”, I think it will be for the Peer to make a judgment on that but, if there were any question about it and if it were refused, there would be a right of appeal. I think most Peers will know what is meant by “impossible” and why they need someone to support them.
I wonder whether the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, is making rather heavy weather of this. My understanding, based on our ongoing discussions, is that if somebody has a pass as a member of an outside organisation, whether a trade union, a campaigning organisation or whatever, and advises a range of Members as part of their work, that would not entitle them to a pass. If, of course, they are primarily supporting a Member of the House of Lords, that work would entitle them to a pass. But the primary reason they have a pass must not be because they want access for the other organisation they work for. I think that should be clear, and I suspect it is what the Senior Deputy Speaker will address. He gave examples of both. If somebody has a pass because they are working for a Peer, whether in a voluntary or a paid capacity, that does not preclude them from doing other work, but the primary purpose cannot be for their role in a campaigning organisation. I hope that is helpful to the House.
I am grateful to the Senior Deputy Speaker. There has been some concern and we have to be mindful of security. There have been a lot of passes. I think all Members are very grateful for the support and advice we get from outside organisations that assist us in doing our work. In most cases, they do not have a pass to do that, but we are quite happy to meet them and have a cup of tea—or, occasionally, something stronger—when circumstances allow. There is a bit of an irony in discussing passes now, when those who hold staff passes are not permitted on to the estate, other than in exceptional circumstances, because of the pandemic. We look forward to when that changes and we are able to have those advisers, with or without passes, back on the estate so that we can discuss issues with them.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Blunkett and Baroness Smith of Basildon
Lord Blunkett (Lab)
My Lords, I support what my noble friend Lord Adonis has just said. From my experience of almost 20 years ago, following the attacks of 11 September 2001, I know that the one thing that we have to avoid is alarming people. I cannot think of anything that would alarm the nation more, and damage both individuals and our economy, than Parliament failing to sit because of the coronavirus. I hope that, united as we appear to be, we can send a message to the other place that we want a sensible, rational and balanced approach, which so far the Government have been achieving.
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, I do not wish to prolong the debate, as there is lots of information we do not yet have, but there are two issues on which I seek assurance from the noble Lord. First, if any action at all is to be taken in restricting access to Parliament, or in any way restricting our work, it should be taken only on the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and with the approval of Parliament.
Secondly, if at any point the virus leads to any restriction on how Parliament works, the Government will need to put in place plans to ensure that democracy continues. That is the point being made by the noble Lords, Lord Adonis and Lord Blunkett. I understand that the No. 10 briefing points out that there could be a quorum of 100 MPs. The quorum is currently 40, so the article does not make much sense, but we should ensure that both Houses of Parliament can operate. I hope the noble Lord gives some information about the plans being drawn up by Downing Street for the worst-case scenarios.