Middle East
Debate between Lord Boateng and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I do not know why Sudan does not get the attention that it should. It is a problem. Perhaps it has to do with media access and presence in that region, or perhaps there are other reasons. I do not know, but I regret it and wish we could spend more time considering Sudan. We held a conference earlier this year with the desire to see progress there. It is incredibly difficult, but we are doing everything we can and I thank the noble Lord for making that point.
People are rightly concerned about what they see. It feels very close to home. There are many people in this country who have family connections to Israel and to Gaza specifically, and I do not in any way ascribe any kind of other motive to those raising these concerns. I note the concern in the noble Lord’s question about antisemitism here in the UK. It is possible, and it is our responsibility, to show that we can have concerns and that we can criticise and be appalled by some of the actions of the Government of Israel, but vehemently protect, in the strongest possible terms, the necessity of Israel—an ally of ours—to succeed, to be safe and to be a prosperous country long into the future. That is what we want to see.
I regret that, too often in this debate, you are forced to pick a side. You either believe in the viability of Israel or in the Palestinian cause. I do not feel like that. If you say you support a two-state solution, you have to mean it. That is, two states living safely, securely and prosperously, side by side.
Lord Boateng (Lab)
My Lords, there is a reason Sudan is not mentioned as much and the horrors taking place there are not given the attention they deserve. It is because Sudan is in Africa—that is why—and Africa is not seen as having the same strategic importance as the Middle East.
However, Africa—southern Africa in particular—can teach us one very important thing. At the height of the struggle in southern Africa, when white people and black people seemed to be at loggerheads in a way that would never be resolved, there was active promotion by successive British Governments of dialogue between all the communities in southern Africa. What more action can His Majesty’s Government take to promote dialogue between Christians, Jews and Muslims in that region, and between Palestinians and Israelis? It must be possible to be both a friend of Israel and a friend of Palestine.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I think it is. I was in South Africa in 1994, just before the elections. I remember that time of huge optimism but also of great fear in certain parts of the population. I recognise completely what my noble friend says. Sometimes, we look back and forget just how desperate things got in South Africa at various points and the things that were done.
It is difficult, if not impossible, to feel that sense of optimism now, either about Sudan or the situation in Gaza. I fear that there is a Government who are deliberately acting in a way that they know is leading to enormous suffering and death in Gaza. This can be prevented very quickly. If dialogue is needed, dialogue is what we should have. It would be very good to move forward in a way that takes us to a place where there is a process and a structure to negotiations, and where the UK—or any country that is able to—is able to bring parties together. Perhaps that means our friends in the region; it does not have to be some of the usual partners who lead this, but dialogue is the only way, ultimately, that this will be resolved. The problem today is one of desperate need and starvation in that population.
International Vaccine Programmes: Funding
Debate between Lord Boateng and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Lord is right; I am not going to give a number this afternoon, because the replenishment is taking place next week. I will be attending, alongside the Foreign Secretary, and we will be making the announcement he talks about. I pay tribute to the previous Government for investing in and supporting Gavi. I am proud that it was started under a Labour Government and continued by successive Conservative Governments. We will continue to support it too, because it is such a successful initiative.
Lord Boateng (Lab)
My Lords, the success of Gavi, which I have seen for myself as a former ambassador for Gavi in both Ghana and Tanzania, has been based on partnership with local health ministries and with the workforces in those countries. That partnership is strained by the recruitment by our National Health Service of doctors and clinicians from Nigeria and Ghana and throughout the Commonwealth. That is undermining the health service delivery in those countries. If we are going to continue to recruit from those countries, will the Government please give some consideration to making direct budgetary funding available to the health departments in the countries of which Gavi is a part?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We work very closely with our partner Governments. We should respect the fact that they need not only vaccination partnerships but a sustainable workforce strategy themselves in order to deliver the healthcare that they require. We will continue to work closely with them. I know that the Health Secretary has his eye on this issue as well. I have every confidence that, across government, working in partnership with my colleagues at the Department of Health, we will be able to proceed in a way that my noble friend would support.
London Sudan Conference
Debate between Lord Boateng and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(4 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Clearly, the withdrawal of USAID support is having an impact in many places around the world, and we are doing what we can. One of the outcomes from the conference, although not an aim of it, was that £800 million was raised, which is positive. But the noble Lord is right to raise the impact of the withdrawal of USAID as well. It is a mistake to impose a test of the success or failure of a conference such as the one we led that is about whether there was an agreed statement or a contact group. Clearly, ideally, you would have those things, but let us be realistic about where this is. If that became the test of a successful conference, I would venture to say that fewer leaders would take the steps that our Foreign Secretary did. This is protracted, long-standing and fiendishly difficult to resolve, but our Foreign Secretary cares deeply about it and wants to use his convening power to make progress. That is what he has done and will continue to do.
Lord Boateng (Lab)
My Lords, no one doubts for one moment the Minister’s sincerity and activity and those of her colleagues the Minister for Africa and the Foreign Secretary on this issue. But the reality is that, only yesterday, news came out of Omdurman that some 31 people, including women and children, were executed. It was not a question of being caught in crossfire; they were executed by the Rapid Support Forces. We know that the churches are actively engaged with the Islamic community in promoting conflict resolution and peacebuilding—the Holy Father gave ample evidence of this. So, if civil society was not represented adequately at the conference—and it was not—what practical steps of support will HMG give to faith-based groups to tackle this issue?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The reality is exactly as the noble Lord describes. This is the worst humanitarian situation on the planet at the moment. It gets too little attention, but this Government want to use their influence, multilaterally and with partners in the region, to improve it. He is right to say that we ought to work more closely with faith and civil society organisations. We are doing that and, where we can do more, we will.