EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously I was not there because I was in Brussels at the time. While I am all for having my cake and eating it, I have not yet worked out how to be in two places at the same time. I think that I have said what I can about funding for universities. It is important that we continue to get it through the European Union under the Horizon programme while we are a member. Afterwards, decisions will have to be made, but we will support our universities. The hon. Gentleman and I have to be frank with each other: Wales did not vote to remain in the European Union despite being a net beneficiary. Welsh farming does well out of Europe, and the Welsh steel industry will do far better if we are in rather than out. I take my share of responsibility that we did not win this campaign. Even now we are leaving, we all have to think about how we can make better arguments about how Britain can remain as engaged as possible.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

May I thank the Prime Minister not just for his statement today, but for all the work he has done over the past six years to protect UK interests at these European Council meetings? With respect to the meeting yesterday, did he detect any regret on the part of other EU leaders that they did not make more concessions when he sought to renegotiate our terms of membership?

[The Prime Minister]

That is a very good question, and one that I am quite keen to answer. The sense in the European Council was that it had bent over backwards to give to a country that already had a special status—out of the euro and out of the Schengen System—things that they found profoundly uncomfortable. Many of those countries really do believe in ever-closer political union however wrong we might think it is here in this country, and they hated saying to Britain, “Right, you are out of this.” That really pained them, but they did it. They particularly disliked having to agree to cut welfare benefits for their own citizens, because that is what they signed up to do. I believe, and will always believe, that it was a good negotiation. It did not solve all of Britain’s problems, and I never said that it did, but it certainly addressed some of the biggest concerns that the British people had. I would like to know whether there is more that could have been done, but the very strong sense that I get is that this issue of full access to the single market and reform of free movement is very, very difficult. We achieved some reforms of free movement, but the idea that there is an enormous change to free movement, particularly from outside the EU, is a very tough call and people have to think that through very carefully before we get into the negotiations.

Outcome of the EU Referendum

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Monday 27th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think the Chancellor was referring to the idea that fiscal measures might be necessary if the economic impacts of leaving prove to be as bad as some of the independent forecasters suggested. He was referring to the idea of having some form of Budget. The Government stand ready, with the Bank of England and others, to take any measures necessary to help to create the market stability that might be necessary.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

I warmly thank my right hon. Friend for his statement today. I have long hoped for this day, ever since I stood right here on 24 October 2011 and first moved the motion that there should be a referendum on our membership of the European Union. What does my right hon. Friend think it says about the nature of the European Union that several member countries reportedly want to “punish” the UK simply because a majority of people had the temerity to vote to leave it?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me first congratulate my hon. Friend on his long campaign. I think that when we look at the reaction of the European Union to these events, we should be careful not to view it entirely through the filter of media outlets that want to see only one reaction. What I sense from the conversations I have had with the Germans, the French, the Poles, the Italians and others is that they are genuinely sad to see the United Kingdom go. They genuinely want to have a good and strong relationship with us when we leave. Obviously, however, they, like us, have to think of their own interests, just as we think of our own interests. The fact that the 27 member states will meet without the United Kingdom after the European Council should not be seen as surprising. In fact, many of us said that that would happen if we were to leave. We will fight like mad for our interests, but they will fight for theirs. We have to try to convince them and try to maintain in ourselves good, open and strong relations so that this becomes a dialogue leading to a mutually beneficial result rather than a war of words or something worse that then leads to a painful divorce.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Wednesday 15th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course, there are many people who come to our country, work hard, make a contribution and help to build our communities. It is important to get the numbers into some sort of perspective. I think 5% of our population are EU nationals—Italians, Germans, Poles, Spaniards and the rest of it—so if you stop 100 people in the street, only five will be EU nationals. It is just as the hon. Gentleman said. Look at our NHS—there are 50,000 EU nationals working as doctors, nurses and care assistants. Look at our care homes—there are 60,000 EU nationals helping to look after our elderly relatives with dementia and other conditions as they come towards the end of their lives. Yes, we need to make sure that people who come here work and make a contribution, but we should celebrate the contribution they make.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Q8. Given the Government’s recent enthusiasm for making forecasts and predictions, will the Prime Minister tell the House in which year we will meet our manifesto commitment to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands?

[The Prime Minister]

The last year for which EU migration was in balance—that is between the number of EU and British nationals leaving our shores to work in Europe and the number of EU nationals coming to live and work here—was as recently as 2008. Yes, we need to do more to control migration from outside the EU, and we are doing so, with the closure of bogus colleges and other measures. We are also doing more inside the EU, not least by saying that if people who come here do not get a job after six months, they have to leave, and that if they work, they have to contribute for four years before getting full access to the welfare system. Those are big changes. They are also sensible ways of controlling immigration. A non-sensible way would be pulling out of the single market, damaging jobs and our economy, and so having to explain to our constituents why we have a self-imposed recession.

Panama Papers

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Monday 11th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that any course of action designed to reduce tax that does not constitute tax evasion must, by definition, be legal, even if some may regard it as aggressive tax avoidance? It is up to this Parliament to legislate to make such courses of action illegal.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Where there is aggressive avoidance taking place that is clearly against the spirit of the law, Parliament should act. As I have said many times, that is what the Chancellor has done, and that is what HMRC advises us about. I think that sometimes there are occasions when the tax avoidance is so aggressive that it is right to warn those taking part in it that legislation will follow, and therefore they should not take part in the scheme in the first place. That often happens.

UK-EU Renegotiation

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments. Clearly, if agreed, this will be a legally binding arrangement, for the reasons I have given, but we are aiming in it for treaty change—on those things that need to change—the next time the treaties are altered. He makes a good point though: the more we can bring this together in one place and explain what it is about, the better the British people will see the force of the arguments.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Does the Prime Minister accept that if the UK left the EU, we could regain our seat at the World Trade Organisation, thereby regaining our voice and influence on this crucial body for global trade, which we lost when we became a member of the EU?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that, outside the EU, one option would be to take our seat at the WTO. The only problem is that the WTO has not signed many trade agreements in recent years. Those have tended to be bilateral agreements, such as the EU agreement with Canada, which we hope is about to come in, and that with Korea. Of course, Britain could, independently, sign trade agreements, but we have to weigh up how much influence Britain has as a member of the EU—a market of 500 million people—when negotiating the biggest and best trade deals with the fastest-growing countries in the world.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman is right to make the point that there are many victims of terrorism and families who have lost loved ones to terrorism in our own country. Even today there is still a terrorist campaign in part of our United Kingdom, and we should take a moment to pay tribute to the police and the security services who work round the clock to try to stop that happening. With reference to his question, it is important that whatever our borders are or wherever they are, we are able to police them effectively to stop criminals and terrorists crossing them.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

The Conservative party manifesto said:

“We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years.”

Although I am clear that in the referendum I will vote to leave the European Union, many of my constituents are waiting to see the outcome of the renegotiation. I would be grateful if my right hon. Friend could explain whether we are still insisting on that idea, or is it now simply a basis for negotiation?

[The Prime Minister]

No. I very much stand by what we put in our manifesto. The four issues that we are renegotiating were clearly set out there and we need to deliver in each of those four areas.

National Security and Defence

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Monday 23rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Following on from that question, does my right hon. Friend think that our membership of NATO is more important to our national security than our membership of the EU?

[The Prime Minister]

In my view, NATO is the organisation that has kept us safe since the second world war. It has been a very successful alliance. If we can secure a reform of the European Union we will not have to choose between belonging to NATO and belonging to a reformed European Union; we will be able to belong to both. I can see the advantages of that because we will increasingly see—as we see off the coast of Libya—British ships involved in trying to deal with potential threats to our country as part of European Union work that is also at the same time sanctioned by NATO.

G20 and Paris Attacks

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Tuesday 17th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. If we were to take action, it would be to save the lives of Syrian civilians. Of course, we all support no-bombing zones in terms of Assad stopping the practice of raining down barrel bombs, sometimes with chemical weapons, on his own people. That is why, while we should be very focused on ISIL, we cannot forget that President Assad has been one of the recruiting sergeants for ISIL and that his brutality keeps providing fresh recruits. The idea that you can just take sides and team up with Assad against ISIL is an entirely false prospectus.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

May I thank the Prime Minister for his statement? In the light of the terrorist attacks in Paris, I believe our police and security services urgently need the new powers set out in the draft Investigatory Powers Bill now. May I therefore urge him to consider speeding up the pre-legislative scrutiny procedure and bring forward the date when this vital Bill will reach the statute book?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. We are looking at this issue, but I would reassure him that most of what the IP Bill does is to put on to an even clearer statutory footing practices currently carried out by our security and intelligence services. There is one particularly important element that is new, relating to internet connection records, which is probably the most controversial part of the Bill, and I do not want to jeopardise the Bill by rushing it. I hope he is reassured that we will look at the timing, but most of the Bill is about putting powers on a clearer legal basis.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can put the hon. Gentleman out of his misery. I put the “dot, dot, dots” into my statement because sometimes I have a bit of trouble reading what I have written down. It is purely stylistic and has nothing to do with the content, but I think he knows that.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Which outcome does the Prime Minister think would be most helpful after he writes to the President of the European Council setting out his list of demands next month? He will either get everything on the list, in which case he will be accused of not asking for enough, or not get everything on the list, in which case he will be accused of having failed in the renegotiations. I should add that as I believe that the United Kingdom would be better off leaving the European Union, I will be equally satisfied whatever the outcome.

[The Prime Minister]

I will make my hon. Friend happy whatever I do. I often read the fairy story of Goldilocks and the three bears and, obviously, we want the porridge to be at just the right temperature.

Tunisia, and European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Monday 29th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. My understanding is that the companies have offered travel back to the United Kingdom. A lot of planes have been laid on. We believe that system is working. Where it is not working, we are getting on to the company concerned and trying to make sure the problem is fixed. On the issue of where people have been injured or returning the bodies of those who tragically have been killed, we are stepping in directly with transport via the RAF to try to help.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Will the Prime Minister please pass on my thanks to his fellow European Union leaders? Every time one of them refuses to agree to one of his very modest requests in the renegotiation process, they make the task of those of us who argue this country would be better off outside the EU just that very little bit easier.

[The Prime Minister]

I do not want to disappoint my hon. Friend too much, but actually the reception I have had from my fellow European Prime Ministers and Presidents has been rather more positive than he suggests.

G7

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and David Nuttall

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The Culture Secretary rightly raised this with me yesterday. We are looking at what we can do on this front. We have, in organisations such as the British Museum, the expertise to know how to help to preserve some of these monuments. We also have advisers in countries that are able to help, so we are looking urgently at this issue to see whether we can resolve it.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

As the Prime Minister may be aware, the European Commission issued a report last year on the level of corruption within member states. The report claimed corruption cost the European economy about €120 billion a year, and was apparently to have included a chapter on corruption within the EU institutions themselves. The fact it did not clearly suggests it thinks there may be something to hide. I urge my right hon. Friend to press for an independent investigation into the extent of corruption within the institutions of the EU.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Perhaps we should start by looking again at the European Court of Auditors and what it does to demonstrate the problems sometimes of corruption and sometimes of wasted or inappropriate use of money in nation states, as well as in the organisation of the EU itself.