Report of the Iraq Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think people should read the report and come to their own conclusions. Clearly, the aftermath of the conflict was profoundly disastrous in so many ways. I do not move away from that at all. I just take the view that if we voted in a particular way, we cannot turn the clock back. We have to take our share of responsibility, but we learn the lessons of what clearly went wrong.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I thank the Prime Minister for prior sight of the report this morning. Point 20 states that

“the diplomatic options had not at that stage been exhausted. Military action was therefore not a last resort.”

So despite the lack of evidence of weapons of mass destruction and despite any possible deficiencies in the advice from the Joint Intelligence Committee, point 22 states:

“Led by Mr Blair, the UK Government chose to support military action.”

Point 364 states that the UK Government held

“that it was right or necessary to defer to its close ally and senior partner, the US.”

Given that, the undermining of the UN and the disastrous and horrible consequences, is it not inconceivable that Mr Blair should not be held to account for his actions?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman reads out some very important parts of the report. It is significant that Sir John Chilcot finds that this undermined the United Nations. Some of us felt at the time that the United Nations was being undermined by the actions of Saddam Hussein and the fact that he was not complying with so many resolutions, but we need to study that and take that into account. As for how people should account for themselves, it is for them to read the report and explain why they did what they did. My role here, on the publication of the report, is to allow the House to discuss it and set out the lessons I think we should learn. I am far more concerned about the future, and how we learn what is in here, rather than rerun the whole Iraq debate all over again.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Yes, enough is being done. We have the Warsaw summit coming up where we will be playing quite a big role in ensuring that there is a visible military presence in the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. We will be playing our part and the Americans will be playing theirs. It is important that we keep up that reassurance, because, for those states, this is the key thing that Britain brings to help their security.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I was at the passionate pro-EU demonstration outside the House of Lords last night, and I have to report that I did not see the Prime Minister or the hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) there. The most popular chant that was repeated over and again was “Eton mess! Eton mess!” Many of the people there were students and young people, and that is because universities have benefited greatly from membership of the European Union. My own university in Bangor reckons that £100 million has come our way over seven years. What can the Prime Minister, his Government and the future Government do to ensure that that funding, or similar funding, is secured?

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously I was not there because I was in Brussels at the time. While I am all for having my cake and eating it, I have not yet worked out how to be in two places at the same time. I think that I have said what I can about funding for universities. It is important that we continue to get it through the European Union under the Horizon programme while we are a member. Afterwards, decisions will have to be made, but we will support our universities. The hon. Gentleman and I have to be frank with each other: Wales did not vote to remain in the European Union despite being a net beneficiary. Welsh farming does well out of Europe, and the Welsh steel industry will do far better if we are in rather than out. I take my share of responsibility that we did not win this campaign. Even now we are leaving, we all have to think about how we can make better arguments about how Britain can remain as engaged as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Wednesday 11th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We debated and discussed around the National Security Council table in the coalition Government and then announced in the House of Commons a scheme to make sure that those people who had helped our forces with translation and other services were given the opportunity of coming to the UK. We set up two schemes: one to encourage that, but also another scheme, a very generous scheme, to try to encourage those people who either wanted to stay or had not been translators for a long enough period to stay in Afghanistan and help to rebuild that country. I think it is important to have both schemes in place, rather than simply saying that everyone in any way involved can come immediately to the UK. Let us back Afghans to rebuild their own country.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

The Prime Minister has confirmed to me that should we leave the EU, the European convergence funding for the very poorest parts of Wales would of course cease. Will he now confirm that in such a case the UK Government would make up the difference?

[The Prime Minister]

The point I would make to the hon. Gentleman, as I would to anyone asking a question about what happens were we to leave, is that I do not think you can give a guarantee. I am a profound believer in our United Kingdom. I want to go on making sure that poorer regions and parts of our country are properly supported. If, as I think is the case, we find that our economy would be hit by leaving and our tax receipts would be hit by leaving, that is obviously going to impact the amount of funding that we can put into agriculture, research or, indeed, poorer parts of our country. That is why I think the safe, sensible and right option is to vote to remain in a reformed European Union.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Monday 22nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Anyone who knows that, at the moment, someone can come from the EU and get up to £10,000 of in-work welfare benefits in the first year knows that that is a big incentive to come to Britain. Many people said that we would never be able to get changes to in-work benefits, but we have got those changes. If we pass this legislation we will see, in 2017, a seven-year period up to 2024 in which we will be restricting these welfare claims. That, plus all the changes that the Home Secretary helped to secure—in many cases reversing ECJ judgments—will actually restore to our country powers over welfare and powers over immigration that can make a real difference.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Plaid Cymru supports our membership of the EU. We also support further reform, and we will campaign accordingly. Were we to leave, what would happen to measures such as convergence funding, which has provided large amounts of money for the poorer areas of west Wales and the valleys?

[The Prime Minister]

The short answer is that if we were to leave the EU, we would not be able to get those funds, which have made a big difference in parts of Wales, in parts of England—for instance, in Cornwall—and in other parts of our country. I am someone who wants to keep the EU budget down, and we achieved the historic decision to cut it, but I think we should be frank that some of the work that the EU has done in poorer countries in other parts of the EU has helped those economies to grow. They are all customers of ours, so whether it is Bulgaria, Romania, Greece or wherever, their economic development is in our interests.

UK-EU Renegotiation

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me deal first with the harmonised directives. We now have this test for subsidiarity—we had only fine words in previous treaties because there was never a mechanism to go with them—so the European Council and the European Commission are going to have to look at all these competences and return to member states those that are no longer necessary. That seems to represent important progress in the area my hon. Friend mentions. On migration, the European Commission has said that Britain qualifies now. Where my hon. Friend is right is that although we know that what is proposed is the ability to stop someone getting full access to benefits for four years, we need to fill in the detail on how long such a mechanism will last and how many times it can be renewed.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

In the Welsh general election, how will the Prime Minister’s Conservative colleagues argue for the economic stability that Wales so sorely needs when it might be overthrown by his referendum just six weeks later?

[The Prime Minister]

British people, including people in Wales, voted for a Government who would deliver economic stability while putting this great question about Britain’s future in front of the British people. As I have said before, public opinion in Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland is all, to a greater or lesser extent, in favour of holding a referendum. I think this is the right policy for the whole of the United Kingdom.

Syria

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who has served in conflict zones. He knows the importance of making these decisions after careful consideration, and he absolutely knows the importance of standing by our allies.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I thank the Prime Minister for the statement and for sight of it beforehand.

I was on the same Bench in 2003 when Tony Blair presented the case for war in Iraq with his customary sincerity. Plaid Cymru MPs voted against that war. For us, it was a matter of integrity. Before the Prime Minister comes to this House again to put the case for more war to the vote, I ask him to examine his conscience and examine all choices short of bombing, as we all must. It is a case of life and death, and eventually, for all of us, it is a matter of integrity.

[The Prime Minister]

I agree that this is a matter of integrity, and there is no part of me that wants to take part in any military action that I do not believe is 100% necessary for our own safety and security. That is what this is about.

The hon. Gentleman refers back to the Iraq vote. I know that was a time of great difficulty for the House and the country and has become hugely controversial, but as I said earlier, we must not let that hold us back from making correct and thought-through decisions when we are under such threat. And we are—that bomb in Paris could have been in London. If ISIL had their way, it would be in London. I cannot stand here and say we are safe from all these threats. We are not. I cannot stand here and say, either, that we will remove the threat through the action that we take, but do I stand here with advice behind me that taking action will degrade and reduce that threat over time? Absolutely. I have examined my conscience and that is what it is telling me.

National Security and Defence

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Monday 23rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. During the flooding problems and during the Olympics we saw a number of British troops on our streets. The point I am making is that up until now there have been some rather arcane and old-fashioned barriers to stop this happening, for all sorts of very good historical reasons, but I think we are rather over that now. I think that if there were a terrorist attack and we needed to surge uniformed personnel to keep us safe, people would be very happy to see the military perform that role.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

In respect of the reorganisation of the Army, what consideration is being given to home-basing the Welsh regiments in Wales, all three of which are currently home-based in England?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to look carefully at that. Obviously, what is happening in terms of basing is that we are bringing a number of people home from Germany, so there are more basing opportunities in the United Kingdom.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Wednesday 21st October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Thousands of people who installed cavity wall insulation now have damp, mouldy houses because the system has failed and let in rainwater. Many people, misled into believing that it was a Government scheme, now find the industry guarantee difficult to access and insufficient. Will the Prime Minister take a personal interest in this scandal, to ensure that disabled people in particular are fully compensated and to avert further reputational damage to the Government’s energy conservation measures?

[The Prime Minister]

I will look carefully at the issue, because it touches on the larger point that the obligations we put on energy companies lead to higher prices—and that goes directly to the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp) was quite rightly trying to make. Even last week, the Labour party in the House of Lords voted to put up energy prices, which impacts on steel users. They ought to try doing the same thing in the House of Lords as in the House of Commons.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have set out the four areas on which I think we need to see progress in the negotiation. A lot has changed since the social chapter, which of course John Major kept us out of in the Maastricht treaty, but which has now, in effect, been put into the body of EU legislation. However, those four areas are the ones we are pursuing.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

On the action plan with Turkey, what discussions did the Prime Minister have on the contribution that an internal peace settlement in Turkey, as proposed by the Kurdish HDP party, would provide on the refugee issue?

[The Prime Minister]

Clearly we want to see a peaceful, stable and secure Turkey, but I do not think it would be right to link the arrangements that the EU is coming to with Turkey about migration, which are about financial support and Schengen countries’ visa arrangements, and the extra help that Turkey can provide on holding migrants in Turkey, with the issue that the hon. Gentleman raises.

Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Hywel Williams

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I look forward to the House gaining the benefit of my hon. Friend’s wisdom from pursuing all those cases. It means that when she speaks in these debates, she has real knowledge of what these cases are like. It is very important that the Syrian refugees are given humanitarian passports, so that they do not have to go through the lengthy asylum process, which is why we are taking that approach.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

In a reply to me last month, the Minister for Immigration said that the vulnerable persons relocation scheme was designed to focus on need, rather than meeting a quota. Is the Prime Minister now imposing a quota of 20,000 on that scheme? What will he say to the 20,001st person who has a provable and legitimate need?

[The Prime Minister]

The first thing to do is to get on and deliver the 20,000.