Middle East Update

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Deech

Wednesday 7th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I am afraid I cannot give my noble friend an up-to-date report but, as she knows, I have worked with a number of noble friends and across the House to ensure that community-building efforts that have been incredibly successful, particularly in terms of developing youth employment and developing enterprises, all help contribute to building that peaceful coexistence. But unless we address that fundamental issue about the situation in Gaza, we will be unable to make the sort of progress that she and I both desire.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, it is a sad coincidence that this Statement is followed by one on India-Pakistan. Both situations are ones where this country was responsible for dividing land in a way that was unsuitable and crude, which has led to trouble ever since, and to migration and displacement.

As far as recognition of Palestine goes, I am afraid that India-Pakistan is a sad instance of how recognition does not solve a historic, millennia-old division between two peoples. I do not have a solution, but I will say this: over 100 other countries already recognise Palestine; it has made no difference whatever. I do not know why, but it does not make a difference because, as the noble Baroness, Lady Berger, said, it takes more than that. If there is to be recognition and peace, it has to start with education, of the Palestinian population in particular. UNRWA teaches children to hate. It teaches them that one day they will return and overrun Israel. Until the Palestinians accept history—that there is no going back and no right of return—no amount of recognition, especially coming from this country with its particular responsibility, will help. I call on the Minister to dial down the temperature by talking about peaceful education and by not always challenging Israel on everything it says, in particular in relation to the figures of casualties, where Hamas’s word is always taken and Israel’s is not.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I have written to the noble Baroness on a couple of occasions in response to the Written Questions she has asked on the casualty numbers. I hear what she says, but I think everyone in this Chamber understands that there have been huge casualties and there is certainly a humanitarian crisis. But I also agree with her. I think noble Lords will appreciate that I have been very committed to supporting the existence of the State of Israel for many years. I remain of that view, but for me, the State of Israel’s security is best supported through an arrangement where we see two states living side by side. We have divided communities now. My noble friend Lady Berger is also committed to a two-state solution; that is the way forward. She is also right that we need to ensure that we can take action to build that community cohesion and support, and education is certainly vital to that. Sadly, at the moment the people and children of Gaza are not getting any education at all.

Israel and Palestine

Debate between Lord Collins of Highbury and Baroness Deech

Wednesday 22nd January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. We are continuing to work with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, the US and regional partners to build consensus on a post-conflict Gaza governance and security framework that supports the conditions, as he rightly said, for a permanent and sustainable peace. We have given the PA two posts to help support its work on this, and we will look towards doing even more as we move through the stages of the ceasefire agreement.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, has the Minister read the wise words of the noble Lord, Lord Finkelstein, in this morning’s Times, where he points out that the time has come for the Palestinians to behave like all the millions or trillions of people displaced since the Second World War with the creation of new states? Does the Minister agree that the problem is UNRWA? The Arabs have to accept the existence of Israel and UNRWA must resettle refugees. It must get them settled in the countries in which they are living and make sure that they have full civil rights, so that their children grow up not to hate but to make a new life and take new opportunities in the countries where they are living, like all other refugees around the world.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I hear what the noble Baroness says, but, of course, many Palestinians are living in occupied territory. We want to ensure, through the peace process that has been agreed, that we work with all sides to bring them towards a consensus that will ensure the safety and security of Israel, as well as the safety and security of a Palestinian state. We must work towards that, and this agreement provides the basis to do so.