Low-traffic Neighbourhoods

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Tuesday 21st November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what are the health benefits of low traffic neighbourhoods.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Lord Davies of Gower) (Con)]

My Lords, when implemented well and with good community engagement, low-traffic neighbourhoods can improve air quality and bring the obvious health benefits of increased cycling and walking. The Government continue to promote traffic management that enables more choice in how people make their journeys. That is why we are carrying out a review to ensure that, where they exist, low-traffic neighbourhoods are delivering the attractive choices for active travel that we all want to see.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply and welcome him to his new post, but why did the Prime Minister order a review of low-traffic neighbourhoods? I quote from the Telegraph:

“I just want to make sure people know that I’m on their side in supporting them to use their cars to do all the things that matter to them”.


Does that not include the health of their family, or does the car come first?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his welcome. On 30 June, the Prime Minister announced a review of low-traffic neighbourhoods to be carried out by the Department for Transport. The review is intended to focus on the processes for creating low-traffic neighbourhoods, including understanding the consultation and engagement processes that were followed for such schemes and the views of local communities impacted by them. The review will focus on the schemes installed since the start of the Covid-19 pandemic and will not look at historical street layouts.

[Lord Ranger of Northwood (Con)]

My Lords, I too welcome my noble friend to his new role, one that I covet somewhat, having previously been a transport director for this city at City Hall. On low-traffic neighbourhoods, one of the challenges we faced in this city was managing the balance between safety, economic policy and keeping the city moving when implementing policies, especially on the roads. So, on low-traffic neighbourhoods and 20 mph zones, do the Government approve of a blanket approach to this type of policy, or does it have to be a bit more sophisticated?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that question. As a resident of Wales, I can speak with some experience on this. The Government are very concerned about excessive vehicle speeds and believe that any form of dangerous or inconsiderate driving behaviour is a serious road safety issue. The power to impose 20 mph speed limits rests totally with local traffic authorities and I emphasise that the Government support 20 mph limits in the right places. We do not, however, support 20 mph limits set indiscriminately on all roads in England, with due regard to the safety case and local support. The Transport Secretary announced The Plan for Drivers in October, which included an assurance that we will update the 20 mph speed limit guidance for England to prevent inappropriate blanket use.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that in Oxford LTNs have been bitterly divisive and a disaster? Teachers are resigning because they cannot get to school; shopkeepers, often of ethnic minority, are closing shops; ambulances cannot get through. Will the Minister ensure that locals are given the truth? So often, we are not told that the pollution displaced from one road simply moves to another. We need to insist that local authorities give us the true scientific picture.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. We are aware of the Oxford situation and I fully support what she said.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord to his new role. My question very much follows from the previous one. What are the Government doing to ensure that local authorities undertake frequent and systematic monitoring of air quality, not just in low-traffic neighbourhoods but in traffic hotspots, to ensure that they pursue traffic reduction measures in general and not just in certain targeted areas?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her kind words. Transport is the largest source of greenhouse gases in the UK, with domestic transport accounting for some 26% of all emissions in 2021. Road vehicles produce over 90% of transport’s domestic carbon emissions, so the transition to electric vehicles is a clear priority as well as an opportunity to grow the economy. We will end the sale of all new petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2035. From 2040, all new HGVs will be fully zero-emission.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister to his new role—this is a blood sport and he is the fox. Local authorities held accountable to residents at elections are best placed to decide how to manage traffic in their communities, yet we are now more than four months into a Whitehall-led review of the implementation of low-traffic neighbourhoods. Can the Minister explain how much this review process is costing, what value added is expected and whether the Government are contemplating primary legislation?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

The review is focusing on fact-finding to ensure that these schemes work for residents, businesses and emergency services and enable more choice in how people make their journeys. We expect the review to report back in early 2024, after which the Government will consider its findings and any necessary next steps to ensure that the schemes deliver the objectives they set out and take account of communities’ views.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the review that my noble friend has outlined and, like others, I welcome him to his new role. My concern is with air pollution levels, particularly when linked to health. Among young children, allergies, bronchitis and asthma are very much on the increase. Can this be taken into consideration in the review so that we can understand the impact of pollution on health?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that excellent question. The latest published emission figures show that air pollution has reduced significantly since 2010—emissions of nitrogen oxide are down by 45%. Under the nitrogen dioxide plan, we are supporting 64 local authorities with £883 million of funding specifically to develop and implement measures to address their nitrogen oxide exceedances in the shortest possible time.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be picking up from his predecessor the portfolio about glare from oncoming headlights. Given the effect of this, the 20 miles per hour speed limit is really important, because eyes do not adjust enough to glare. Will the Minister meet me and others on this continuing issue of glare so that we can move forward on it?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I know that this issue is of particular interest to the noble Baroness. I would be delighted to meet her.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

I welcome the noble Lord. Can the review look at the detrimental mental health harms of being forced, for example, to take three times as long to take the kids to school or the disabled and elderly being unable to get taxis from or deliveries to their doors due to LTNs, and the health impacts of heavily congested roads and LTNs? Will the Minister look at a new report, “Clean” Air, Dirty Money, Filthy Politics, which looks at the distorting influence of big money on the science and health evidence? We need to say that there are bad health effects of some of these anti-car policies.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I take on board what she says, and I cannot disagree with it. There is nothing wrong with driving. Most of us use a car, and for many, life would not be liveable without one, but I take on board exactly what the noble Baroness says.

[Lord Hogan-Howe (CB)]

My Lords, I add my own congratulations to a retired detective who has been put in charge of traffic, which is truly a remarkable promotion. What plans do the Government have to ensure that cyclists do not exceed 20 mph in the low- traffic zones or, frankly, anywhere else that they choose to break the law?

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind words. He makes a very good point, and it is something, perhaps, that the Metropolitan Police should take good note of.

Rail Ticket Offices

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

I think we will take the Labour side first.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister said that people can buy tickets online. That presupposes that people have a good mobile phone or a computer and a broadband line. Can the Minister tell the House how many individuals and households do not have a good phone, access to a computer or a broadband link? What help will the Government be offering to those who do not have these things?

Great British Railways and Rail Services in the North

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

Can I ask the noble Lord to complete his speech?

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

He has now become leader of Liverpool City Council, so, having taken on a fairly controversial job, he now has an even greater challenge. So, those are some of the issues which are faced as far as transport is concerned, and I wish my noble friend well in her challenge ahead.

Transport Act 2000 (Air Traffic Services Licence Modification Appeals) (Prescribed Aerodromes) Regulations 2022

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in yet another short debate on navigation systems. I was very grateful to the Minister for writing to noble Lords to clarify things after the last debate, but I was sorry that I did not get a letter saying that she had arranged a meeting with the Minister for Aviation. I hope that she may tell us more about that today.

I wanted to update noble Lords on what has happened on EGNOS since the last debate. I have been given a copy of a letter from Robert Courts MP, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Air, to Jim McMahon MP, a Labour shadow Secretary of State, dated 22 June. The letter explains why the Government are not going ahead with EGNOS, and basically says that, in discussions with the European Commission, the Government decided that it was not considered to offer good value for the taxpayer.

I have been reflecting on what that means. Having talked to people in the Highlands and Islands, and Loganair, and having been in the Isles of Scilly last weekend, I discovered that the issue of safety of life, which the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, mentioned, is actually quite serious. In Scilly, there is no ferry in the winter, so people rely on air. There was a time between Christmas and new year this year when some people got delayed and had to spend five days in a hotel with their family, which does not come cheap.

More importantly, the Isles of Scilly and many of the Scottish islands rely on air help for medical emergencies—either a helicopter or a fixed-wing plane, depending on the circumstances. If people cannot fly due to bad navigation, usually fog, their health is at risk. I am not sure how the Minister for Aviation can say that that is not good value for money. I do not know how much he puts on a life that is lost because you cannot fly, when there is an alternative.

The Minister may not have the answers today, so perhaps she could write, but what is the actual cost of reinstalling EGNOS? There must be a cost from the European Union, even as a temporary measure. If there is an alternative, what is it, and when will it be ready? We need answers to those questions, because at the moment a lot of money is being spent on abortive attempts to keep EGNOS going, or not even start it. Maybe some of those who spent the money will look to have compensation, but it is more important that we find a solution that can be done and, I hope, worked with the European Union, even as a temporary measure.

I conclude by noting that the Channel Islands, which are not part of the UK air traffic system, have EGNOS. They have confirmed to me that they are continuing to use it, and as far as I can gather it does not cost them very much, if anything at all. I look forward to the Minister’s response, and I hope that she can soon give us a date for meeting the Air Minister.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for raising this aspect of air traffic services, and it is a pleasure to follow him. I should perhaps draw attention to my role as co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on General Aviation and as an aviator who is often confronted with inclement weather conditions, when the provision of satellite-assisted navigation is of enormous help.

At the conclusion of the Brexit negotiations, a number of reasons were put forward from various sources as an explanation for the loss of the high-accuracy guidance provided by the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service, EGNOS, ranging from running out of negotiating time to the EU demanding an excessive amount of money to remain within the Galileo system. Seeking clarification in a Written Question to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy on 20 April last year, I asked

“what financial contribution the EU requested for the UK to continue to access the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service Safety of Life service; how the request compared with the UK’s previous contributions; how they assessed value for money in view of its impact on aviation; and what plans they have to renegotiate access to this service.”

It was a disappointing response. I was told:

“The UK sought to negotiate a service access agreement on


EGNOS

“with the EU. However, the EU required participation in the programme along with the full associated costs of participation, as per previous years, for continued access to the EGNOS Safety of Life service. For all programmes under consideration, the Government was clear it would only participate where the terms were in the UK’s interests, and in this case, it was not considered value for money.”

The question of financial contribution was not answered.

I am bound to say that I find that quite astonishing. The whole purpose of EGNOS, which provides localiser performance with vertical guidance, commonly known as LPV accuracy, is the safe operation of aircraft. The clue is in the title: Safety of Life service. Surely this should be in the UK’s interest, and everyone else’s.

The loss of this service has had enormous financial implications for airfields, many of them small training establishments, which have assisted in EGNOS-assisted approaches. What is more, student pilots training for commercial licences have lost the opportunity to undertake the necessary practical training for those airfield approaches within the UK, with the prospect of moving to European training schools and consequent loss of revenue to UK training establishments.

Above all, it is the safety access which the EGNOS service provides and which has now been lost due to the Government putting value for money before the Safety of Life service. My question is simple: how much would it cost to retain that facility, or is it still the Government’s position that finances override the safety aspect of EGNOS?

In answer to a further Written Question of mine a year ago, I was informed:

“The Government continues to explore options for mitigating the loss of the LPV capability.”


Perhaps the Minister can update the House on exactly how much further forward we are on those much needed options and what the timescale is.

This is an extremely important issue on which the aviation community feels sorely let down, so I ask the Minister to do whatever she can to reinstate this important service, which, on the face of it, appears to have gone completely off the radar. I look forward to my noble friend’s response.

As we are considering aviation licensing issues, perhaps I can ask my noble friend’s indulgence for a moment longer on the issue of a recently adopted regulation resulting in pilots now being prevented from flying in UK airspace using US FAA flight crew licences. This is having a particular effect on helicopter operations. As the Minister will know, many pilots in the UK have FAA licences due to the costs involved with the UK’s authority, the CAA, which is one of the most expensive authorities in the developed world. I believe that Article 2(1)(b)(ii) of UK regulation 2018/1139 is the element causing problems for owners. The legislation applies to all third-country licence holders, including FAA licence holders resident in the UK, and all third-country aircraft registered in the UK.

The pressing issue is residence within the UK. If it was a case of the aircraft residing elsewhere, it would not be an issue. The legislation does not consider aircraft on the FAA register separately, as they are on a third-country register. Pilots and engineers who work on aircraft hold a multitude of different licences, not just FAA ones. Rather puzzlingly, the FAA instructor who conducts checkrides is invariably also a UK CAA examiner. Therefore, it is difficult for operators to understand why they should now be stopped from flying. We have a frustrated section of the aviation community unable to fly for business, with multimillion-pound helicopters and experienced private and commercial pilots having been made redundant through the legislation. I would be grateful if the Minister could outline how the DfT plans to address the issue.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

I thank the Minister for her introduction to these regulations. I will start by addressing what is in them before turning to other issues—I do not want to disappoint her, but I will turn to other issues.

The background to these regulations seems to lie in two serious systems failures way back in 2013 and 2014. These led in due course to this SI, via the 2021 Act. It has taken a very long time to get here, in an industry where technological development is very fast paced. Both the CAA and the CMA have additional responsibilities as a result of these regulations. They are the Government’s usual maids-of-all-work; barely a week seems to pass here without them picking up some additional responsibility. I ask my usual question to the Minister: what additional resources are they being provided with as a result of these additional responsibilities?

A recent Written Answer to one of my questions revealed that two people had been assigned to the team tasked with promoting general aviation and liaison with general aviation airfields, spending £375,000. By comparison, these regulations deal with very large airports and very large numbers of large airports. How many people are to be regularly devoted to the licensing of air traffic services? How many additional people does the Minister think will be required as a result of these regulations?

I say this because paragraph 12.4 of the Explanatory Memorandum refers very specifically to an increase in the number of appeals. It talks about an 8% increase in the number of minor modifications appeals and a 12% increase for major modification appeals. When, where and how did these figures come about? How were they arrived at? There was no formal consultation and no full impact assessment. My concern is that, without those, it is very difficult to be that precise. I was surprised by that lack of consultation, because modifications which affect the London approach affect a very large number of users—not just large companies and airports but the users of the airports and small companies and individuals too.

I move on to the other issue, EGNOS. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for his continued work on this really important issue. The noble Baroness, Lady Foster, and the noble Lord, Lord Davies, spoke with great expertise and knowledge on this. I have also been surprised by the lack of any apparent reference to the loss of EGNOS. I have been looking online, on the DfT website, for a formal statement; there is absolute silence, as far as I can see, on this essential issue.

Britain’s Railways

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Monday 24th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Those were some very interesting observations from the noble Lord, who is clearly well versed in the railways. He is right that we need to make sure that Ministers’ responsibilities are separate from those of Great British Railways, which is why we are proposing strong levers to hold them to account, but will not meddle in the day-to-day running of the organisation. So there will be statutory powers and the ability to issue binding guidance in specific areas, which will be important.

The noble Lord mentioned planning, and I have already pointed out that there will be five-year business plans within the 30-year strategy. He also mentioned freight, which is a very important part of this. It is often a forgotten area of the railways, and we believe that it will benefit from the national co-ordination that Great British Railways will bring. His last point was on data, which is one of the key areas where we feel that we can improve customer satisfaction. Historically, data has been held by the train operating companies and not shared as well as it should have been. By putting all this data and responsibility for revenues within Great British Railways, we will necessarily bring together all the data. We believe that from that we will not only simplify tickets but think of better ways to use that data to provide more value-for-money services for passengers.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My Lords, as a frequent user of Transport for Wales and GWR from west Wales to London, I very much welcome this Statement. It is good to see the travelling passenger put at the forefront, in ticketing and the adoption of modern, flexible ways to pay. I note the comments that close collaboration is promised between Great British Railways and the devolved nations. Can the Minister perhaps elaborate on how the new ticketing system will integrate, for ease of use by the travelling public, with the payment systems of the now nationalised Transport for Wales and the proposed south Wales metro scheme? What conversations have the Government had with the Welsh Government on this?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Our engagement with Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government has been very significant and over a long period, both at ministerial and official levels. Next, we want to develop a joint working agreement with Transport for Wales and Great British Railways, so that all issues around fares, not only within Wales but for cross-border services, can be considered in the round. We would like them to join us in sharing data and using the single website and app to purchase tickets. We cannot force them to do that, but we look forward to having a close working relationship as we take this forward.

Rail Disruption: Social and Economic Impacts

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Thursday 13th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Unfortunately I missed the question, but I hope to provide some colour to what the noble Lord was saying. Indeed, there are two different types of crack. One is found on the yaw damper; those cracks were found three weeks ago and are not the reason for the withdrawal of the trains from service. The second cracks are on the lifting lugs and have led to the withdrawal of trains from service. I would like to reassure the noble Lord that there is a very stringent engineering risk assessment in place. These trains are checked every 24 hours and are being returned to service from today; we expect to have up to 25 coming back today. We hope that 60 GWR trains will be back by Monday and we believe that services will significantly improve.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con) [V]]

The current situation has brought about an intolerable level of stress and inconvenience to the travelling public, not least here in Wales on the GWR routes. It is a relief that Hitachi has issued a statement this morning advising that a significant number of the IETs can return to service. What inquiries have been made of train leasing companies, such as Angel Trains and Porterbrook, to establish the possibility of recommissioning some of their redundant and in-storage HST 125 fleet to provide some alleviation of the current problem and possible future issues?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I would like to reassure my noble friend that I spoke to Mark Hopwood, the MD of GWR, this morning. He told me that the major routes of particularly high priority include those from south Wales and the south-west. We recognise that getting those services back is important. He is looking at other ways of procuring modern, clean rolling stock, although he pointed out that the return of HSTs is unlikely and he would hope to get more modern stock from elsewhere.

Freight Industry: Delays

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Thursday 17th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, as I said, the port infrastructure fund provided funding to 41 ports, and they will be able to put various things in place. Work is ongoing with the devolved Administrations for ports in Wales, and conversations are ongoing with the Northern Ireland Executive to make sure goods travelling across the Irish Sea can do so successfully.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

On 1 January, the UK will have another frontier with the EU in the form of the sea border between Wales and the Republic of Ireland. The ports of Holyhead, Fishguard and Pembroke Dock handle more than half a million lorries and trailers crossing between Great Britain and Northern Ireland each year, and Holyhead is the second largest roll-on, roll-off port in the UK after Dover. A report in the last few days from the Commons’ Welsh Affairs Committee warned that the necessary systems and infra- structure may not be ready in time for full implementation of the new border checks. Can the Minister give an update on the capability of the checking facilities and assure those who operate in and out of these Welsh ports that the facilities are now oven-ready for 1 January and able to cope?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I reassure my noble friend that we are working closely with the Welsh Government on a cross-government basis to make sure all ports are as ready as they can be. I can also reassure him that from 1 January 2021, the UK will have autonomy to introduce its own approach to goods imported to GB from the EU. But, recognising the impact of coronavirus on businesses’ ability to prepare, the checks will be introduced in three phases up to 1 July. So, we have the ability to be flexible and pragmatic, and that is the approach we will take.

Covid-19: Transport Industry

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as co-chair of the All-Party Group on General Aviation. General aviation is of course the bedrock of aviation in this country—where young pilots are trained for the future—and has taken a particular hit, along with the rest of aviation, during this Covid-19 crisis. Will the Government consider looking at VAT in respect of general aviation? Will the Minister perhaps consult with the Treasury on this issue?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government recognise the important role that general aviation plays in providing the grass-roots element from which so many who go on to the commercial sector come. I reassure my noble friend that the Government are focusing carefully on aviation recovery work, which will include general aviation. It will look at regional connectivity, economic growth, decarbonisation and, perhaps most importantly in the field of general aviation, workforce and skills.

International Travel

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Wednesday 9th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that London is very reliant on inbound tourism, as are many other major cities across the country. The Government are well aware of this and there are a number of conversations going on at the moment which are looking at potential solutions, not only for London but on a nationwide basis for the larger population hubs to ensure that people can travel safely. Within all this we have a very difficult balance between keeping the virus under control, making sure that people can travel safely and protecting jobs and the economy.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My noble friend the Minister has already alluded to the disparity that has emerged between Her Majesty’s Government and the devolved nations in respect of countries identified as being on a warning list for potential travellers and those returning to the UK. Does she agree that this has caused immense confusion and anger among those affected? There are now reports of complications for the public in that, in the devolved nations, travel insurance for cancelled holidays may not be honoured. What can the Government do to assist?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Travel insurance is a private matter between the company and the individual, but it cannot be stressed enough that people should check the terms and conditions of their travel insurance before they travel so that they have the right level of coverage. As I mentioned earlier, many travel companies are being more flexible, so travel insurance is not needed as much for some as it was previously. On the point made by my noble friend about the confusion about the devolved Administrations, I beg to differ slightly because everybody across the country has to be more alert now. Things are going to be different in different places in the country. We have seen that in Bolton, Wales, Scotland and Manchester. People in general have to be more alert. While we sit as a national House and look beyond that and think it must all be terribly confusing, I am not sure. If you are an individual in Bolton, for example, you know what you have to do because you should read about the restrictions that have been applied there and respond according. It is every citizen’s responsibility to know what they can or cannot do. Things will change; we cannot stop them changing, because the evidence changes so our advice will change.

Air Traffic Management and Unmanned Aircraft Bill [HL]

Lord Davies of Gower Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard)
Monday 10th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, at the risk of being boring—I apologise if I am—I ask my noble friend again if the Ministry of Defence is part of this discussion group.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot help but feel that this is fundamentally a bad amendment. I certainly oppose the CAA being the prime adjudicator on airspace. It should really be the other way around; the Government should set the strategy, which is then implemented by the CAA. The power of the CAA in airspace strategy should not be increased; rather, it should be constrained to act in a role to advise the Government on safety matters related to airspace. Overall, I believe that the management of modernisation should firmly rest with the Government.

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

Could I interpret that as the noble Lord agreeing with me?

[Lord Davies of Gower]

I am disagreeing.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, as I have said and will probably say many times during the passage of this Bill, airspace modernisation is incredibly complex. A wide range of organisations are responsible for delivering it, and it will be for the benefit of the community as a whole. I understand noble Lords’ concerns about who is ultimately responsible for delivering it. I hope I may be able to add some clarity on the exact responsibilities of the Secretary of State, the Department for Transport and the CAA with regard to airspace modernisation, because it is far from straightforward.

Under Section 66 of the Transport Act, the Secretary of State may give directions to the CAA imposing duties, conferring powers or both with regard to air navigation in a managed area. That is our first stage: the Secretary of State giving instructions or directions to the CAA. In those directions given by the Secretary of State to the CAA, the Secretary of State directed it to prepare and maintain a co-ordinated strategy and plan for UK airspace up to 2040, including modernising the use of such airspace. Again, I believe that all noble Lords will be in agreement with that, which is what has happened.

The CAA is therefore responsible for preparing the strategy, as set out in Clause 8(1), by reference to the directions. If the directions change, the strategy would then change. This is consistent with the CAA’s role as a specialist aviation regulator and its broader statutory responsibilities. The CAA meets this requirement through its airspace modernisation strategy, CAP 1711, and of course the governance of that, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, in CAP 1711b.

It is envisaged that the master plan currently being developed to identify in more detail the sort of changes that we will look for will become part of the CAA’s airspace modernisation strategy, which it has been asked to prepare by the Secretary of State. The legislation therefore makes it clear that the CAA is required by the Secretary of State to prepare and maintain the airspace strategy and to publish a report on it, and that the Secretary of State will hold the CAA accountable for this, while Parliament will hold the Secretary of State to account.

However, although that stands in all circumstances, it is not quite so straightforward, because there are responsibilities that lie elsewhere. It is important that we recognise that so, alongside the CAA and the DfT having responsibilities to co-sponsor the framework, the actual delivery cannot take place without the active participation of the industry. This precisely makes the case for the powers that we seek to take in the Bill that the Committee is discussing. We hope for the wonderful carrot world of active participation by the industry, and we have the stick of a potential direction if that does not happen. The noble Lord mentioned the previous attempt at airspace modernisation; he is absolutely right that it did not work because there were no sticks. It was therefore difficult to focus minds on reaching an agreement without the need to use a stick. It would not be beneficial for our relationship with the industry, or indeed stakeholders, to utilise the stick too readily—but, as a last resort, we would.

On the amendment’s requirement to lay a Statement in Parliament on progress against the strategy, I think I mentioned that the CAA already provides an annual report on the progress against the modernisation strategy. I therefore feel that that is probably not warranted. I hope I have clearly explained where the current roles and responsibilities lie so that there is no confusion and that, on the basis of this explanation, the noble Lord might—no, he might not.