Health: Spectrum Conditions

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Tuesday 30th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, I acknowledge the great work the noble Lord, Lord Winston, is doing. I am clear that early diagnosis makes a huge difference; it helps the self-esteem of the child in question, and also enables earlier interventions to take place, helping to establish that child on a strong educational pathway.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that dyslexia is an impairment that can result in substantial and adverse long-term effects on an individual and their ability to carry out normal, day-to-day activities, and therefore this report is in complete contrast to the legislation that this House has passed?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, it is certainly not helpful that Warwickshire County Council is not engaging with the British Dyslexia Association. Under the Equality Act 2010, a person has a disability,

“if he or she has a physical or mental impairment and the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities”.

Department for Education: Use of Statistics

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Thursday 11th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

I reassure the Chamber about one statement we made that has caused criticism. I shall read it and then give a little context. We said that the UK is the third highest spender on education in the world, according to the OECD, spending a higher proportion of our GDP on education than Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Portugal and Spain. This is correct, but I accept the noble Lord’s comment that the context needs to be made clearer; indeed, the Permanent Secretary acknowledged that in his letter this week to the UKSA.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, on the subject of his department’s use of statistics, is my noble friend aware of the Economic Affairs Committee report which pointed out that the penal rates of interest being charged on student loans—currently 6.3%—are counted as income by the Government, even though they will be written off 30 years down the line? Therefore, the numbers give the impression that the deficit is being reduced by charging students those penal rates of interest when in fact it is not. Is it not time that students were treated fairly and the statistics put in order?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, I certainly agree that student loans constitute an important and sensitive issue, which is continually under review. Recently, we agreed to the lifting of the threshold at which repayment begins, and I am sure that debate will continue in this important area.

Academies: Gender Pay Gap

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 25th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, I am a director and a trustee. I stood down as the chairman. That matter was discussed with the Propriety and Ethics Team in the Cabinet Office. It was fully disclosed and is in my ministerial declaration.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend accept congratulations from the House for the work he has done in enabling children’s education to be improved? Can he get one of his excellent teachers to perhaps teach the noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie, the difference between pay inequality and the gender pay gap? Is it not the case that men and women doing the same job in schools are paid on the same basis, and the gender pay gap is about the relative numbers of men and women in particular jobs? That is something which, from his question, it seems the opposition spokesman did not understand.

Social Mobility

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, over the last seven years, we have put a lot of emphasis on helping students from less advantaged backgrounds into higher education. That includes, of course, those from minority backgrounds. We are spending £840 million a year to help disadvantaged students into university. That is nearly twice as much as in 2010. That includes things such as outreach programmes, pastoral support and support for internships. All these things will help the group to which the noble Baroness referred.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the excellent work he has done in the past in supporting Michael Gove to improve the standards and performance of our schools offers hope for improved social mobility, and that the failure of the parties opposite to tackle these problems is the reason that many people have been disadvantaged?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, I can only agree with that comment but let me put a little flesh on the bones. In 2010, we undertook to take on the most failing schools in this country and put them into the sponsored academy programme. Over 1,900 schools were taken on from 150 local authorities. As at the current date, 68% of those that have been inspected are now providing a good or better education. That is 1.8 million more children in good education than in 2010. However, we are not complacent. My main motivator in this job is to ensure that momentum is continued.

Higher Education and Research Bill

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 9th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Myners (CB)]

My Lords, I did not go to university. Some 52 years ago I applied to be an undergraduate at the London School of Economics and was rejected. Fifty years later, it appointed me chairman of its Court of Governors. Clearly, one of those decisions was wrong. I am also chancellor of the University of Exeter.

I should like to add to the good words that have already been expressed about the commitment that the Minister of State has shown in taking this Bill forward in the other place and in being with us today. I can think of no one in the other place better suited than him to lead legislation regarding, and indeed representation of, our universities.

We have heard from the proposers of the amendment about the importance of autonomy in our universities, as well as freedom of thought and expression. The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, spoke about the world standing of our universities. However, we should not disguise from ourselves the fact that in our universities there are some shortcomings, which have become very apparent to me, particularly in my time at the London School of Economics.

I have frequently heard the word “burden” inserted before the word “teaching”, and I have found university professors’ commitment in terms of hours spent working with students to be extraordinary low. I was told that our aim was to get the figure up to 68 hours. As somebody who was new to universities, I asked myself, “Is that a week? No, surely it can’t be a week; maybe it’s a month”—but I discovered that on average professors at the London School of Economics teach for only 68 hours a year.

Therefore, it is important that we embody in law the responsibilities of universities. It is important that we talk not only about academic freedom and autonomy and about the importance of universities in the promotion of research and in having a positive impact on people’s lives and on society but also about accountabilities. I think that there are major shortcomings in accountability in our universities. In many there is a climate of lassitude in terms of academics’ duties and obligations to their institution and to their students, and the Government have quite correctly addressed that as an issue in putting this legislation before us. I also think that the proposals in the amendment are correct—

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Surely these shortcomings in teaching times are a matter for the body responsible for governing the university and not for the Government.

[Lord Myners]

With all due respect, I did not say that they were a matter for the Government; I was pointing out that we should not believe that everything is quite as rosy as is occasionally suggested when describing the excellence of our universities. Like, no doubt, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, I commit to the fact that we should never be content and that we should always work to improve. I am simply saying that there are some areas where universities need to improve. This Bill, in talking about the importance of teaching excellence and putting teaching at the heart of the university experience, does, I believe, address the current shortcoming that we see in this area.

I think that the amendment, while being absolutely necessary in explaining the role of a university, suffers from some inadequacies in its drafting. It barely achieves a Lower Second in terms of striking the balance between a higher-level vision of what a university does and very detailed prescription, as the noble Lord, Lord Willetts, pointed out. Therefore, if this is pushed to a vote, I will vote in favour of the amendment, because I think that the Bill would be strengthened by words to that effect at the beginning. However, it is very important to note that, in moving the amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, made it very clear that he was willing to listen to the Government and possibly not force the amendment to a vote if there was some sign that they were willing to go away and reconsider the need for an amendment of this sort in the preamble to the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Storey]

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lucas. That is why I said that when the Minister replies, he must state clearly his intentions regarding the functions of universities. If he spells that out, there will be no need to press this to a vote.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, I have no offices to declare and I hope I will not bore the House, but I had experience of setting up a new university, the University of the Highlands and Islands, some 20 years ago. I recall that there was huge opposition from existing universities, which did not like the idea of a new university using new technology and the emerging internet, so I have reservations about the amendment. By creating a definition, it appears to be restricting the opportunities for change, variety and diversity in the university sector, so I think it is fundamentally misguided.

I also think that it is a great mistake to have declarative clauses in any legislation. If the amendment were passed, how would it be enforced? What kind of trouble would it cause existing universities, with people bringing judicial review and so on? Then I thought: why are so many very bright, intelligent and knowledgeable people getting up to make speeches in support of it? The elephant in the room is that we are worried about the content of the Bill and the effect that it will have on the autonomy and freedom of speech of the universities. As the noble Lord, Lord Myners, pointed out, we are also worried about the extent to which corporate governance in some universities is strong and effective enough to ensure value for money for the taxpayer. So the Minister has a difficult task.

The problem arises because of the content of the Bill. It would seem better to address the issues that are included in the list by looking at what the legislation says. I am a free market Tory; I do not believe in government interfering in institutions that are doing perfectly well, thank you very much, but I do believe in getting value for money. However, I do not think that it is right to create a situation that we had in Scotland recently—if I can use the referendum word—where the principal of my former university, St Andrews, complained about Mr Alex Salmond putting pressure on the university for political reasons. That is a good example of how things can go very badly wrong.

We should focus on the content of the Bill and what the Bill says to strengthen the autonomy of universities. To pass the amendment would be a very great mistake because, as many people have said—including my noble friend Lord Willetts—by putting in a definition of this kind we may actually achieve the opposite of what is intended in its purpose. I speak in support of the Minister, who has a difficult job. I think that he should reject the amendment, but he should also go back to his colleagues and say, “There is a problem here. What can we do in terms of the substance of the Bill to address the concerns about having autonomy in our universities and keeping government and outside organisations from interfering in their day-to-day work and in their views on how they should be run and expanded?”.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

Following on from the noble Lord’s comments, if the Minister is minded to reject the amendment and go and think about it, could he think in particular about the many institutions that sometimes appear in different parts of the world under the title of university, which may not be universities that this Bill is designed to promote or protect, nor institutions where we would want many of our young people to seek their education? I have in mind not merely the well-known Hamburger University, which has a rather limited set of subjects on the menu, but also those universities that are in fact annexes or derivatives of respectable universities which set themselves up in other parts of the world and which would be most attracted to setting themselves up in a place where students have access to funding for their tuition. Those places offer a very narrow, minimal and perhaps not very demanding set of subjects.

The Minister told us at Second Reading that the big problem currently is that the legislation is needed to update the regulation of universities. I accept the point, but it would be much more helpful to know which specific mischiefs the Government hope to remedy with this piece of legislation. There are specific mischiefs—the noble Lord, Lord Myners, mentioned one of them; there are places where too little teaching is done. But I am very certain that, if the Bill goes through unamended, there will be many more universities, so-called, where very little teaching is done. It is quite ordinary for institutions to compete not to be the best or to have the best offerings but to make the greatest profit and to do it in the most cheap, cheerful and economical way. As the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, said, as we move through a technological revolution, of which MOOCs will be a serious part, we need to think very hard about what is not a university. That may be rather easier than defining what is a university.

Schools

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Does my noble friend recognise—

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Naseby]

This is about English schools. Does my noble friend recognise that the phrase “schools that work for everyone” applies to the majority of independent schools? I declare an interest, having been chairman of the governors of Bedford School, under the Harpur Trust, which runs three secondary schools in which well over 200 pupils receive substantial bursaries. The trust is the main financial promoter of the Bedford Academy. All the schools make their facilities available in different ways. My own school makes its planetarium available to every primary school in Bedfordshire. Against that sort of background, I have to say to my noble friend that it is not helpful to read in the papers of a quote, allegedly from the Prime Minister, that independent schools are “divorced from normal life”. They are not. Furthermore, does my noble friend recognise that every parent who goes to an independent school has already paid the cost of state education through the community charge? People who come to the independent sector make great sacrifices and come from all classes. They believe in good education and they are prepared to pay for it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, I hope my noble friend will forgive me, in view of my noble friend Lord Naseby’s injunction that this is an English matter, when I point out that when I left office as Secretary of State for Scotland in 1997, the number of children of school leaving age getting five decent passes was about 10% higher than in England. Today, it is the other way round. That is because of the reforms that have been brought in by a Conservative Government, which have been opposed by the parties opposite every step of the way. Does my noble friend not think that there is something quite bizarre about people wanting to make it against the law to have selection for intake into state schools when many of them, such as the former Deputy Prime Minister, benefited from expensive, highly selective schools giving them an excellent education themselves? Will my noble friend press ahead with these reforms and ignore the parties opposite, some of whose members wish to pull the ladder up after them?

[Lord Nash]

I am grateful for my noble friend’s support for our policies, which have been very successful. We have created 600,000 new school places and have plans to create another 600,000. We have doubled the number of pupils passing the EBacc, we have many more competent young readers as a result of our phonics programmes and we have many more pupils leaving primary school with the necessary literacy and numeracy skills to help them achieve in secondary schools. I am delighted that my noble friend has pointed this out. Our record on this is pretty good, and I invite all noble Lords to look at our plans with an open mind. This is of course a consultation, and we welcome all contributions.

Schools: British Values

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Thursday 12th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

The noble Lord makes a very good point, and it is essential that we do exactly what he says.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend acknowledge that there are certain dangers in Governments dictating what should be taught and done in our schools?

[Lord Nash]

I acknowledge that, but I think we all share the expectation that we prepare our pupils adequately for life in modern Britain and make sure that their curriculum is broad enough for them to be able to be so prepared.

Schools: Free Schools

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I think I can assure the House. As I said on Monday, far from taking money away from the basic need places, the free schools programme is enhancing the number of places available. We inherited a shortfall in places from the previous Government, who surprisingly failed to anticipate this

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that it tells us everything about the Official Opposition that they ask a Question not about failing schools but about failing free schools, when free schools have done so much to offer opportunities to people who would otherwise be deserted in failing schools? Does this not show why they are not really fit to form a Government in our country?

[Lord Nash]

I could give a very long answer to that question but essentially I agree with my noble friend. The free schools programme is an outstanding success, and I use that expression advisedly. Free schools are much more likely than other schools to be rated outstanding after four or five terms of opening. On Monday, I mentioned a number of free schools which I invited noble Lords to visit and which have been rated outstanding within a few months of opening. There are seven, but I am sure that noble Lords across the House will be delighted to hear that many more have recently been judged outstanding in their fifth term of opening, and these reports will be published shortly. Therefore, we should be loudly praising the heads, teachers, parents, sponsors and governors of these schools.

Schools: Academies

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Tuesday 4th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I entirely agree with the noble Earl. The school-to-school support model, which you could say was pioneered by the London Challenge, started by the previous Government, is one that we favour over other models. That is why we focus all academy groupings on a local and regional cluster basis, whether or not they are part of chains. We think that school-to-school support is the way forward.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, given the enormous success that the academies have achieved in turning round schools and offering opportunities to youngsters, why does the Minister think that we have so many Questions from the party opposite sniping at these very considerable successes?

[Lord Nash]

I think that I have in the past alluded to the fact—without wishing to rise to the challenge too much—that for many years many schools in this country have undoubtedly been allowed years to languish in failure. We now have many successful chains, such as ARK, Harris, Outwood Grange, REAch2, Greenwood Dale, Aldridge and Perry Beeches, which are turning round inner-city schools that were previously just written off. Some of their performance statistics are really quite miraculous.

Schools: Independent Schools

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

The noble Lord makes a very good point; that may be the case. If the Labour Party had abolished state education, that would have happened, but we are where we are. We have an excellent independent sector and we should learn from it and collaborate with it.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Will my noble friend explain why, if the Government are in favour of the money following the pupil and in favour of extending choice, they are not in favour of getting the best value for money and of ensuring that people get the best possible education by making resources available to those who cannot afford to go to independent schools so that they can do so?

[Lord Nash]

There are plenty of schemes, such as the Buttle UK springboard, which encourage pupils to go to independent schools. Even if we got a third of independent school places occupied by poorer pupils, we would still be dealing with only 2% of the population. We believe that our money is better spent trying to improve the educational chances of the majority of children.