Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Debate between Lord Freud and Baroness Pitkeathley

Monday 25th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

Amendment 24 seeks to remove carer’s allowance from the list of benefits that are included within the benefit cap. As written, the effect is that recipients of carer’s allowance with a benefit income above cap levels would still be included in the cap but their carer’s allowance payment would be disregarded from the cap. That is the way that this amendment works.

I emphasise to the noble Baroness, and to your Lordships, that this Government value the contribution which carers make to society, and shall outline the further steps that we are taking to support carers. As I indicated earlier in the process, the Government have been carefully considering the position of carers and the people who they care for in relation to the benefit cap. I am grateful for the patience which noble Lords have shown while we completed this consideration. I know that your Lordships have been keen to hear where we would come out but it is necessary to look at these things in detail and take the right time to do so. We keep all these policies under review and have been looking at support for carers with particular attention—that is, across the piece and not just here. In relation to the benefit cap, the position of carers cannot be considered in isolation from wider policy aims. Our strategy is to support and invest in carers. We have therefore looked at the evidence and considered the best way to continue to support carers in the context of wider government strategy.

We do not consider that the disregard which this amendment would create is the right approach. We want to go further; we will be exempting all recipients of carer’s allowance from the benefit cap, whether they are single or part of a couple. This approach fits within the wider government strategy to support and invest in carers. Many carers wish to enter paid employment and many have done so while sustaining the role. We recognise that in some cases, it is beneficial for both the cared-for person and the social care system if people are cared for at home. It continues to be the case that some paid employment, alongside caring, will be right for many carers. But our strategy to support carers through the Care Act and through wider investment strategies provides new, targeted opportunities for help and encouragement, where appropriate, to remain close to paid employment.

As I say, we will be exempting recipients of carer’s allowance from the benefit cap. This is of course complex and we will need to get it right. But with my assurance that to support this exemption we will bring forward an amendment at Third Reading, and then appropriate regulations in due course, I therefore ask the noble Baroness, if she has finished moving her amendment, to withdraw it.

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

I am always happy to spare the Minister more vituperation, as he pleaded for. I am of course delighted with what he said, with the recognition that the Government have given to the contribution which carers make and to their inability to mitigate the effect of the cap in other ways. Certainly, some carers combine paid work with caring but, as I have said, for many their caring responsibilities are too heavy for them to do that without enormous stress. I am very glad that the Minister has taken account of that, and that the Government have taken account of the very strong wording of the High Court judgment. The wording was extremely well put but extremely firm. It would have been very difficult to understand if the Government had not heeded the very strong words of that High Court judgment. At the time, it seemed that there was neither logic nor justice in the Government’s position. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Debate between Lord Freud and Baroness Pitkeathley

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

My Lords, I rise to strongly support the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher. We have said already that the cap is applied unequally to carers. While I welcome the exemption for households in receipt of PIP or DLA, it means that carers who are considered to be not in the same household as the person they care for will be penalised.

[Lord Freud]

In the interests of saving time, it may be worth me saying one of the key things that I will say as I close. Clearly, noble Lords will be aware of the High Court judgment in the case of Hurley and others. The Government are considering this closely. Can I ask noble Lords to allow me to come back to them on this important issue at a later date? By that I am hopeful that it will be on Report. I am hopeful but I cannot guarantee it—well, it must be at Report stage. I will come back with the Government’s decision on that, which might help to truncate some of our deliberations. That is all I can say at this stage.

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

I am grateful to the Minister and will happily truncate and wait with bated breath for his response on Report. Meanwhile I simply support the amendments of the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher.

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Debate between Lord Freud and Baroness Pitkeathley

Monday 7th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

I have given out as much information as I can on the questions at this stage and indicated what the relative positions are. On this amendment in particular, I was careful to make it clear that there is not a huge difference in cost terms—and I will double-check this—between allowing a child element for the disabled and exempting the family which has a disabled child. That is the main cost implication which I have been able to provide today.

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

If the Minister is not in a position tonight to answer those questions, can he give an indication of when he might be?

Underoccupancy Charge: Carers

Debate between Lord Freud and Baroness Pitkeathley

Monday 10th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to exempting unpaid carers from the underoccupancy charge.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud) (Con)]

An unpaid resident carer is allocated a bedroom, unless they are the partner of the housing benefit claimant, in which case they will share a bedroom. A non-resident unpaid carer who regularly undertakes overnight care in respect of the claimant or their partner is also provided with a bedroom.

[Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)]

Does the Minister really think it justifiable to make carers who are providing round-the-clock care apply repeatedly for a discretionary housing payment in order to remain in their own homes—a process which, by the way, is lengthy and bureaucratic, and very uncertain in terms of getting the discretionary payment? Is this really a fair way to treat people who are providing vast amounts of care and saving the state vast amounts of money—often at great personal cost, as the Minister knows? I ask him again: will he consider an exemption for carers from this pernicious tax?

[Lord Freud]

We clearly value carers greatly, and we have put support into the system at different levels for them. In this case we have given local authorities some guidance to make it absolutely clear that they can make longer-term determinations of discretionary housing payments. We have also made it clear that DHPs will be paid next year as well as this year.

Housing Benefit

Debate between Lord Freud and Baroness Pitkeathley

Monday 4th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I said that people will make a range of responses. Some will decide that the best thing they can do is to downsize and they will be supported in that. Clearly, in areas where there is no appropriate social housing, there is the option of moving into private rented housing. However, the essential point is that there is a limit to what the state can afford. We have had quite a lot of changes in the private rented sector, and this brings the social rented sector into line.

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

The Minister is concerned about the problems of caring families. Has he considered the issue of a carer who looks, say, after her severely disabled husband? The spare bedroom—the surplus bedroom as he puts it—is necessary to keep all the equipment, such as hoists and so on; and sometimes the carer needs to sleep there to have an adequate night’s sleep. What arrangements can be made in that situation?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, that is exactly the kind of case that the discretionary housing payments are intended for. Where there are genuine problems of that nature, we would expect those payments to be made to support that particular family in its accommodation.

Autism: Disability Living Allowance

Debate between Lord Freud and Baroness Pitkeathley

Thursday 10th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for what is actually a very complicated question to answer briefly. This is a different assessment. The personal independence payment is looking at what people need to function in their daily lives, whereas the work capability assessment is designed to look at whether people are capable of working. They are different. We need to make sure that we do not have too many tribunal cases. At the moment, under DLA, tribunal cases are at 11 per cent, which is too high. One of the attractions of going to a consistent, coherent new personal independence payment is that we can have criteria which make it much less obvious that people need to go to tribunal.

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the person who took the Autism Bill through your Lordships' House. The Minister will know that that Bill placed an obligation on local authorities to survey the number of adults with autism in their area to ensure that there are enough services for them and their carers. Given the restrictions on local authority budgets, has he any concerns that they will not be able to do this, thus further disadvantaging people with autism and their carers?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, we are all indebted to the noble Baroness for taking that Bill through the House. One of the effects of that Act is that even in times of restraint local authorities have an obligation to look after this group of people. The Act provides that protection for them.

Benefits

Debate between Lord Freud and Baroness Pitkeathley

Monday 20th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that question. The work capability assessment has been looked at once internally and now by Professor Harrington. We are committed to bringing in those reforms as quickly as possible—ideally, all of them by the time we have all the existing IB claimants reassessed with a view to going over to ESA.

[Baroness Pitkeathley]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, when it comes to assessing individual needs, the benefits received by carers are of extreme importance to families in need? Some weeks ago, the Minister said that no decision had yet been made about how to treat the carer’s allowance in the benefit reforms. Has any further progress been made towards that decision?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, we are working on fine-tuning the whole of the universal credit system. One of the key issues is the design of how carers’ allowances go into that. We are still not in a position to say where we have got to precisely, but we will make it clear pretty soon.