Flood Response

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Pinnock

Monday 10th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and draw the attention of the House to my interests as set out in the register, which include being a councillor in Kirklees in West Yorkshire.

Yesterday I spent several hours visiting flood-affected neighbourhoods in my town. Businesses, which are often located on the flatter land that is close to watercourses, found torrents of water rushing through their premises. Anxious residents were out in the appalling weather watching the levels rise, fearful that flooded cellars would lead to something even worse. In the face of the overwhelming nature of what happened, local emergency services were able to help only the very worst affected, and I thank them and all those in the local authorities, the Environment Agency and the energy supply companies who sought to keep people safe.

The towns affected by flooding yesterday were also the ones that were hit hard previously. Flooding does long-term damage to homes and businesses that can be very difficult to overcome. The immediate concern is the cost of the clear-up and the damage to homes and businesses. As the Minister said, the Government have activated the Bellwin scheme, which enables local authorities to claim some of the costs of the flooding. However, the scheme’s criteria state that a local authority has to fund the first 0.2% of its revenue budget before qualifying. No doubt that appeared generous when the scheme was drawn up before the 40% cuts to local government funding were imposed. Now with council budgets so squeezed, it is not approaching anywhere near generous. It puts enormous pressure on local authorities. On top of that, the same councils have had to fund clear-up costs from earlier flooding events, which, when they occur year-on-year, as they do, take a toll on council reserves set aside for such risks. Will the Government consider changes to the criteria to take these factors into account so that local authorities can have a more generous Bellwin scheme for areas that are affected time and again?

Obviously, insurance costs for residents and businesses often become prohibitive, especially for residents who already struggle to fund such costs. In my area, lower-value homes are often those most likely to flood; their owners or tenants are also the ones who struggle to pay for insurance costs. Can the Minister provide any comfort to such people and offer a more generous contribution towards these insurance costs?

One factor that constantly rises to the surface following flooding is that of drainage. One difficulty is that several different organisations are responsible for effective water drainage: the local authority, riparian owners, the water company and the Environment Agency. Can the Minister tell us whether the Government are thinking about how drainage systems can be better co-ordinated so that management and responsibility become more transparent?

Finally, there is the question of the consequences of ill-thought-through development. The Government are keen to accelerate planning application decisions and even, perhaps, to remove some of the detailed responsibilities of local planning authorities. This approach could well result in worsening the flood risk for a neighbourhood, with all the long-term consequences that follow. Will the Minister, through national planning guidance, consider putting a requirement on planning authorities to fully consider flooding risk, its mitigations and the responsibility of developers to fully fund such mitigations? Further mitigations could be made, for example, via the requirement of developers to restrict hard, impermeable surfaces and to set aside sufficient land for tree planting.

Of course, there is much more that can and should be done, such as, in my area, restoring the capacity of the peat uplands—something that in Yorkshire the water company is already beginning to do. I appreciate that I have asked a number of questions which may be outside the scope of the Minister’s portfolio. If that is the case, will he undertake to provide a written response?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baronesses for posing a number of questions. If any further details are needed on any of the questions, I will write to them.

I open by saying that, between 2010 and 2015, £1.7 billion was spent on flood defences. Between 2015 and 2021, that figure will be £2.6 billion. That is a record amount, and the manifesto commitment of my party is £4 billion for five years from 2020. I can say that this Government, and indeed the coalition Government before, invested very considerable sums, but it is clear that we will need to do ever more. I agree with the noble Baronesses that we will have to use a mix of conventional flood defences and natural capital; that is clearly the way to work on this, particularly in the uplands.

When we come to deliberations on the Agriculture Bill, one element of Clause 1—if I remember rightly; I cannot remember the number—refers to financial assistance and, indeed, the importance of tree planting. This is not a partisan matter—although we might vie for the number of trees we would plant—but a matter that we need to move forward. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, that, on both mitigation and adaptation, we are fully seized that global warming must be addressed, not only in this country but across the world. We are the world leader on this and the G7 economy that has been decarbonising the fastest. We absolutely recognise the importance of this issue; that is why I am looking to great success for our country and its reputation at COP in Glasgow, with all of us working together.

I am also very conscious, having visited flood victims in Swaledale last year, of what it must be like not only to have been flooded, but to have been flooded again. Having seen what people endured, I am sure that all your Lordships will agree that it is impossible to ask people to withstand that. This is why I said what I said about the emergency services and our gratitude to them, and why I take seriously the accusations made about resources. I will take away the points that have been made about Bellwin. However, under this long-standing scheme for emergencies, we have said that we will reimburse 100% of the eligible costs incurred by local authorities, precisely to deal with this storm. This has been announced in what is probably record time because we understand the severity of the situation.

On Flood Re, it was very important that—as was said in the Statement—the Secretary of State announced a review of insurance cover at the end of last year following the November 2019 flooding. I am very conscious that, in many instances, Flood Re has been remarkably successful. It has meant that many property owners have been able to go to a number of insurance companies for their insurance cover; that has been successful. However, we recognise that, as some noble Lords have raised before, there are other areas that this review should look into; it will investigate these areas to help identify any implications for future flood events and see what more can be done. I should say that Defra officials have been in touch with the Association of British Insurers to ensure that insurers are doing all they can to support those affected.

I come to sustainable drainage. I understand that we will have to build more houses for our growing population. Sustainable drainage presupposes that we need to build them in a manner that allows the reuse of water—grey water. We need to work on all this; I have taken back what the noble Baronesses have said. I agree, for instance, particularly in relation to rainfall in the uplands, that we need to look at how we work with hill farmers, landowners and managers to ensure that we can retain water. This is, once again, part of what we will discuss in both the Environment Bill and the Agriculture Bill. Working with the deep grain of our contours, how do we plant trees in the right places?

I am most grateful to the noble Baronesses. I agree that we need to review Flood Re, and that is taking place. I accept that there is damage to communities. That is why I have outlined, and the Statement outlines, some of the schemes already in place following the investments over the last decade relating to those parts, particularly in the north, that have traditionally had very high rainfall and are now experiencing even more. All of that is why our energies in this new phase are about getting the balance right between hard defences and natural capital. I remember being told the rainfall in Cumbria at the time of the last floods. We would have had to have walls going through some towns there that were so high that it was almost impossible. It is unrealistic to have barriers of that sort going through towns. We need to look at how we slow the flow and at any means to assist people who, I am afraid, are going through great difficulty at the moment.

Water Supply Disruption

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Pinnock

Tuesday 6th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, again, so many of the noble Lord’s comments are in line with what I said and what the Secretary of State was very clear about last week. Some water authorities are, in my candid view, better than others. I have a list of some of the many projects that certain water companies are undertaking, whether investment or dramatically improving water on beaches. There are some very good examples of where that investment of £140 billion since privatisation has undoubtedly borne fruit, whether it is in sewers, flooding, pollution or reduction in nitrates. But there is no doubt that the game needs to be upped, and that improvements in certain water companies need to be considered.

As I said, Ofwat has already given Thames Water a substantial fine for missing leakage targets. When one thinks of water shortages in the south-east and other places with large populations, it is imperative to bear down on continuing leaks very strongly. We need to ensure that water companies are investing properly. In fairness, I have to say that leakage levels are down by a third since privatisation and bills since 1994 are but 3% higher—but there is room for considerable improvement. That is what my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is looking for. We are clear that if Ofwat needs any further powers, we will actively look at them.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my entry in the register of interests as a non-executive director on the board of Yorkshire Water until September last year.

My understanding is that water companies have to agree a five-year plan for investment in water infrastructure with Ofwat, which is a balance between investment, priorities for improvement such as those to which the Minister referred—sewage systems, clean bathing water, the freshwater river directive and all the rest of it—and cost to the consumer. That is the balance that has to be reached, and those plans are agreed with Ofwat. I am not saying that there ought not to be significant improvements, because there always ought to be, but we need to look at the reality, which is that it is a three-way balance between national government priorities, consumer cost and Ofwat agreeing to the cost of capital.

When I was on the board of Yorkshire Water, I was always going on about leakage, on which I think it is now one of the better companies at about 19%. Water is actually quite cheap—it costs about a penny a litre out of the tap—so the cost of repairing Victorian pipes in many of our towns and across the country is not economic for the water saved, certainly in the north of England where we have plenty of water. It is probably different in the south. Perhaps the Minister could comment on that.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I am tempted to say that Yorkshire Water is planting millions of trees to help reduce the risk of flooding and control surges in the flow of water. On leakage, the target was 297 million litres per day, which sounds a lot, but the actual was 295 million, so Yorkshire Water, under the previous custodianship of the noble Baroness, is obviously working extremely hard on some of the issues that she rightly outlined as a balance with other work, working with natural capital and so forth, that water companies are doing.

The first thing to say on the five-year business plans agreed with Ofwat is that they have tough performance commitments, and we agree that they should balance resilience and affordability in the priorities in the strategic policy statement .

On the point about leakage and the cost of the leakage, the noble Baroness may be right that water is cheap, but it is also very precious. I am thinking about the ways in which I would feel very uncomfortable about taking the foot off the pedal in bearing down on leakages and the targets, as we all ought to be doing—and, indeed, upgrading our infrastructure. In previous years, all the streets of London were up because Victorian main drains were being replaced, and so forth. The investment of £140 billion since privatisation has gone on upgrading the infrastructure, and we undoubtedly need to do more.

Rural Areas: Income

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Pinnock

Tuesday 7th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, there is a national living wage and it is an obligation. I am very pleased that it is to rise to £7.50 per hour in April. That is precisely why we want to ensure that, with the increase in tax allowance and more coming through, people at the lower end of the income range are those who we are helping.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, rural proofing does not seem to have reached local government, where many local services have withdrawn from villages into urban centres as a consequence of the deep cuts to local government funding. What advice would the Minister provide to the Secretary of State or his fellow Minister the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, about funding for district and county councils to enable rural proofing?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I say, the rural-proofing guidance is to go across Whitehall and the DCLG is of course a very important government department in that respect. There are clearly considerable sums of money still going to local authorities and it is for them to decide on the division of the budget. But this predicates something rather more important: we have to have a growing economy to afford all the things we want to do. That is why this country has the fastest-growing economy in the G7, which is important because it is only when we grow our economy that we will have the resources to do many of the things which I am sure your Lordships wish to have done.

Footpaths

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Pinnock

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I should say in declaring an interest that part of the cross-compliance arrangements that we as farmers and landowners have is precisely in the matter of keeping paths open. If we did not, we would not be adhering to those arrangements. What the report shows—I welcome the tone of what the Ramblers have suggested—is that we need to work together in partnership to get those 9% of footpaths open and better available. It is an overwhelmingly positive report about how partnership will make sure that all paths are in good condition by 2020.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, in my part of West Yorkshire there are 37 miles of public rights of way. In 2010, there were eight members of staff and a budget of some £250,000 to maintain them; today, there is one member of staff and no budget. Deterioration is therefore inevitable. Will the Minister explain how those paths can be kept open?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, it is interesting that the Ramblers report stated:

“The condition of paths varies across the country, but the picture is complex. Many local factors contribute and budget cuts alone do not explain why the path network is better maintained in some places than in others”.

Partnership with volunteers and local authorities is what works best. That is what I will encourage in my discussions. Of the 118,000 miles of rights of way, I very much hope that the noble Baroness’s 37 will be in good repair as well.