Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill

Debate between Lord Hardie and Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames

Report stage
Wednesday 4th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hardie (CB)]

My Lords, I, too, have not spoken before on the Bill. I understand the sentiment behind the noble Viscount’s amendment. As a former judge in Scotland, I do not demur from the advantage of having such reports. However, I wonder whether there is an element of confusion in the various amendments. In the sense that the noble Lord, Lord Carter, seemed to suggest, there may be confusion in the mind of the sentencer as to whether he or she can order a report.

I do not read this clause as being that. Clause 1(2) specifies that the guidelines about pre-sentence reports may not include provision framed by reference to different personal characteristics of an offender. The personal characteristics are defined in Clause 3 as including race, religion or belief, and cultural background. So, I would have thought that it is irrelevant to determining a sentence that someone is of a certain race, or adheres to a certain religion, or has a certain cultural background. What one wants to know is something about the upbringing of the individual, whether he or she was abused as a child, and whether there are other circumstances in his or her upbringing that would explain his or her behaviour. So I do not see the need for the amendments that simply reinforce the position that already exists.

[Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD)]

My Lords, before turning to Amendment 2 in my name, I will make a number of points that are relevant to the general difficulty of this Bill, highlighted by all the amendments in this group, and relevant to the unsuitability of legislating for what the Sentencing Council may or may not recommend in guidelines as to when pre-sentence reports should or should not be required. I take the point just made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hardie, that there is a distinction to be drawn between the guidelines and when a pre-sentencing report is to be required, but there is real scope for confusion, and that does concern us all.

When sentencing, effective judges must inevitably take into account the personal circumstances of individual offenders, alongside the nature of their offences, the requirement to punish and the need for deterrence. When taking into account those personal circumstances, they are bound to consider their different personal characteristics. So, the drafting of this Bill starts with a conflict that is, on analysis, almost impossible to resolve.

The Government tried to clarify what is meant by personal characteristics in an all-Peers letter just before Committee, in which the Minister cited the words of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Neuberger, in the House of Lords as the precursor of the Supreme Court, when he said that

“the concept of ‘personal characteristic’ … generally requires one to concentrate on what somebody is, rather than what he is doing or what is being done to him”.

This might assist a court to consider in a judicial context what words may mean, but it does not necessarily help with the construction of the meaning of a Bill. No clear distinction can be drawn between what a person is by birth and what a person may have become by reason of life experience. For example, is a woman pregnant because of what she is or because of what has happened to her? Is a black person scarred by racism suffering because of what they are or because of what has happened to them?

That difficulty is compounded by the fact that the list of personal characteristics in Clause 1(3) is non-exhaustive. They are said to

“include, in particular … race … religion or belief

or

“cultural background”.

But that does not exclude anything else—a point that has been made by my noble friend Lord Beith and by others throughout the discussion of this Bill. The use of the phrase “framed by reference to” was also rightly criticised by my noble friend Lady Hamwee as hopelessly uncertain. That was in the context of her proposing her Amendment 3, but it runs through the whole of this issue of personal characteristics.