Online Hate Speech

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Thursday 15th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I could not agree more with my noble friend that this is not just a governmental or societal issue. As legislators for this country, we have a strong leadership role to take, and it dismays me when I see certain quite extreme people invited into the Palace of Westminster to propagate their hate.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I have been mentioned. I shall stick to the Question. Does hate speech include criticising Islam or any of the world’s great religions as opposed to insulting their adherents? Does our legislation make that distinction and, if not, should it not do so?

Security and Policing: Facial Recognition Technology

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Thursday 1st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, first I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

I apologise to the noble Lord but he will have seen in the Companion, at paragraph 4.32,

“it is considered discourteous for members not to be present for at least the opening speeches”.

The noble Lord was not present for the opening speech, so I wonder whether he should reconsider his decision to take part in the debate.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, as I was about to say, it is frankly not good enough for government Whips to arrange for a notice to be sent out by email at 12.51 pm to say that a debate is about to start. If there has been any discourtesy it has been from the government Whips to myself. If the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, are content, I will say just two or three words—I do not see the noble Lord rising to his feet.

First, as I say, I apologise to the noble Baroness for not having heard her speech, but having known her for quite a number of years I can guess the tone and nature of her remarks. I start from the premise that, by and large, facial recognition techniques are extremely valuable to the police and security services and, as a consequence, extremely valuable to the general population. I read of a case only this week in which somebody had been extradited from one side of the world to the other because the facial recognition system at a point of entry had picked up that this person was on a database and wanted for multiple murders in another country. I think that taking such people out of circulation and giving them the opportunity to be tried properly is good. I suspect that the noble Baroness—although, as I say, for reasons beyond my control I did not hear her speech—argued that these very powerful techniques should be more closely regulated. My simple point is that these techniques are extremely powerful but they are out of the bag, the train has left the station, or whatever metaphor you want to use to express it.

The Chinese website Alibaba has introduced a system whereby you can smile to pay. That is China, which is different, of course, and I am not aware that any similar system is being adopted in the UK or in other western countries, but that technique is there and it is only a matter of time before non-state actors start to use these techniques far more widely than is currently the case. I just wonder whether we want to have a regulatory system that ties the hands of the police and security forces behind their back under such circumstances when those techniques are available. Of course there should be a regulatory framework, but if there is, it should apply universally. I leave it to the Government to work out how they would enforce such a regulatory framework in other sectors.

My final point is specifically for the Minister and will perhaps be more in tune with something that the noble Baroness may have said. I would be interested in the Minister telling us what arrangements are being made for the storage of the data collected by the police and security agencies. Has she put in place a system whereby those databases are held within the United Kingdom on servers that are solely within the United Kingdom and by contractors that do not have written into the small print of their contracts arrangements that would enable them to copy that material elsewhere? Before the noble Lord, Lord Young, stands up, I would be grateful for her answer.

Nurseries and Schools: Protection from Terrorism

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Thursday 8th February 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they are taking to protect nurseries and schools from terrorist attack.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and I refer to my interests in policing and security as set out in the register.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, schools and nurseries have a legal responsibility to ensure that staff and pupils are safe, including in the event of a terrorist attack. The Government provide a range of advice to help them fulfil their responsibilities. The National Counter Terrorism Security Office also provides specialist advice on staying safe in the event of an attack, including tailored advice for education establishments, which schools and nurseries are able to draw upon.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, not for the first time I think that the Minister has drawn the short straw on the Government Front Bench, in that this is really a Question on what the Department for Education is doing about this. Two years ago I made a recommendation that every school governing body should appoint one of their members to take a lead in overseeing work on security and protecting pupils in the event of some attack of this nature. The Department for Education’s response was to say, no, it would leave it to individual schools. That response was then criticised by the head teachers’ associations which said they would welcome such general guidance. Will the Minister talk to her colleagues in the Department for Education so that it actually provides some guidance and a framework for schools to protect children in the event of such an attack?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am very aware of the noble Lord’s advice and recommendations on governing bodies and a single person on a governing body. Governing bodies have to make a judgment as a whole on the health, safety and protective measures that they need to put in their schools. As for guidance, clearly the last year has been unprecedented in terms of security generally and our schools are no less vulnerable. The DfE is currently reviewing its health, safety and school security advice, giving consideration to how guidance material can improve advice that is given to schools.

Crime: Scooter and Moped Gangs

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

One of the myths being put about was that police are not pursuing drivers of motorcycles who are not wearing helmets. In fact, that is not the case at all: there has been no ban on police pursuing people without helmets. It is an operational matter for the police what they prioritise at local level.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, in the light of that answer, perhaps the noble Baroness can explain why the young people concerned are taking off their helmets. More particularly, she talked about increased funding. Why is it, then, that the Home Office refuses to pay the full amount of compensation to the Metropolitan Police for its national and international functions, although it has agreed the sum of money which is due? Is that not reducing the Metropolitan Police’s ability to deal with crimes such as this?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, in answer to the question of why people are taking off their helmets, I assume that it is in order not to be pursued. That is why I made the point that police are absolutely at liberty, in pursuit of fighting crime, to chase people who are not wearing a helmet. On full compensation, if the noble Lord is amenable, I shall write to him on that point.

Women: Board Membership

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Monday 10th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Baroness is right that transparency and reporting are absolutely key. She will know that Charlotte Sweeney has just reported on the voluntary code among those who are recruiting for those positions. She notes that only 25% of those headhunting firms even mentioned this on their websites, so they themselves have a long way to go.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell us how many of the FTSE 100 companies have women chief executives? What are the Government doing to improve the position?

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Lord puts his finger on a very important point. There are only four female chief executives in the FTSE 100 at the moment. It is indeed an area in which companies need to make a lot more progress.

UN: Sustainable Development and Family Planning

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend is right, and I emphasise again the importance of investing in education, which then has the effects that she is talking about. I note also what are described as the demographic dividends: if you have fewer children who are dependent and therefore an expansion of the working-age population, there is an economic benefit to the countries in question. That is regarded as one of the factors in the development of the east Asian countries in particular.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, does the Government’s commitment to education on family planning and contraception around the world extend to education in schools in this country, particularly academy schools and so-called free schools? Will the Government confirm that they will follow a curriculum that has a full range of education including in respect of family planning and contraception?

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, that question is slightly wide of scope but I refer the noble Lord to the Answers given by my noble friend Lord Hill assuring the House that this area is extremely important wherever it is found.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Newlove]

My Lords, I had no intention of speaking in this debate but having listened to noble Lords, especially the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, I could not sit any longer. I am speaking because I truly support what is being said about sobriety testing and I ask the Government really to look at this. In the area in which I work, alcohol is my passion, because I am the victim of a crime—my husband was kicked to death in an alcohol-fuelled murder, so I am passionate about this subject. I am a practical person and not into statistics. The statistic that I want to look at is, what is the magic number? Are we really going to roll up our sleeves and tackle this? I welcome the amendment and am looking for support around the House. We need to consider the solutions in front of us and not keep waiting for further evidence. Let us do something not just to prevent having more murder victims but to help the young to have a healthy and socially responsible lifestyle ahead of them.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, I do not want to detain the Committee for long partly because I agree with virtually every word that all noble Lords who have contributed to the short debate have said. The speeches made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Finlay, Lady Jenkin and Lady Newlove, and the speech of my noble friend Lady Hayter encompass all the arguments.

I have to disagree, however, with one point made by the noble Baroness Lady Finlay, which was the dismissal of possible technical solutions. Quite fortuitously, after the debate on a similar amendment to the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act, I met some manufacturers of equipment who, in passing, referred to equipment they have developed—I gather that three or four other manufacturers have done similar things—that enables remote alcohol monitoring. It would be wrong to dismiss that as an option. The equipment that I saw when I asked further about this—I understand that it has been shown to the Home Office, although I do not know the outcome of those discussions—clearly did not have all the disadvantages that the noble Baroness described.

I hope that the Government will respond to the views that have been overwhelmingly expressed in the Committee today and recognise that this point should be taken on board. This is a permissive proposal that will allow the pilots to take place. It is not mandatory either on magistrates or the police in terms of the action that they take. About 40 per cent of violent crimes have an alcohol component to them, so if this demonstrates that you can do something useful to reduce the level of alcohol-fuelled crimes, reduce the number of people who have to be admitted for longer periods or reduce the numbers at the revolving door into penal establishments, then it has to be in the interests of society as a whole. I hope that the noble Baroness who will respond to this debate has been briefed to say that the Government will support the scheme, and that they will either accept the amendment or table a suitable one on Report or Third Reading that will put this on to the statute book and enable these pilots to go ahead.

[Lord Bach]

My Lords, the problems of drugs in this country are always in the news. The arguments about whether they should be legal, illegal or somewhere in between are a constant source of debate among talking heads—quite rightly too, as it is a very serious problem and issue. By comparison, the issues of alcoholism and too much consumption of alcohol have always taken, certainly in recent times, very much a second place in discussion. Of course, if we read our local newspapers, we will see one such case after another—often they are minor, but sometimes they are very serious, which I shall talk about in a moment. We hear of X being found drunk and disorderly at the very bottom end of it, or of criminal damage or damage to a person. Every week countless cases are there to be recorded by any enterprising journalist who goes along to the local magistrates’ court. It is a wonder that, over many years, we have allowed this imbalance to grow—as the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, emphasised—in our discussion of drugs and alcohol. Alcohol when misused is a drug. There is no question or doubt about that.

We have heard some extraordinarily impressive speeches in a very impressive debate. From the opposition Front Bench we welcome the amendment and will support it all the way. I can be brief, as I know that people are waiting for other business to begin, but the facts are truly terrifying. There are 1.2 million alcohol-related violent incidents a year, including about half of all violent crimes. There are 360,000 incidents of domestic violence, a third of which are linked to alcohol misuse. There are all those arrests for drunkenness and disorder. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, talked about medium and serious crime. There are 530 drink-driving deaths—what a waste that is. There is also the appalling statistic that 58 per cent of rapists reported drinking, no doubt to excess, beforehand. They are horrifying figures for a civilised society and more needs to be done.

We are living in a time of austerity—it does not matter whose fault it is for these purposes—when more people are unemployed and people are probably poorer than they were. The figures for relationship breakdown are not exactly encouraging. Those are all factors that have been associated in the past with heavy drinking. We cannot be careless about the issue now. The cost each year is absolutely huge—£8 billion to £13 billion a year, as estimated by the Home Office in 2010. We have heard about the National Health Service and the ridiculous amount of money that it has to spend on people who constantly get drunk and then get hurt.

Of course I claim that the previous Government did useful and good things in this field, and no doubt the Government before that one did too, but that is no argument in itself. We have to do more and we have to take slight risks. We have to do more than we would otherwise think of doing. It is not a matter for some bureaucracy to decide that we can move forward on this step but not that one. This suggestion has been well discussed by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and her supporters, and I pay special tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Newlove, who speaks with such effect on all these matters. The argument has been so one-sided that is very hard to see any argument at all against the Government supporting, at least in principle, what has been suggested. I hope that they will support the amendment. We certainly support it—it would be a crying shame not to. It is, after all, a pilot that is being proposed. It is not a dramatic implementation across the country all in one go. A pilot has been proposed and I cannot think of one argument against adopting it.