Personal Independence Payment Regulations

Debate between Lord Henley and Baroness Hollis of Heigham

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, individuals will continue to get their personal independence payment and will continue to be able to apply for it in the usual way. It is just that we have new regulations that bring clarity, as I am sure my noble friend will be aware, to the lack of clarity that the Upper Tribunal complained of.

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Lab)]

My Lords, following the pertinent questions of my noble friend Lord McKenzie, two days ago the Social Security Advisory Committee pointed out the error made by the DWP in a previous submission to the Upper Tribunal in 2015, which led in turn to the inconsistency of determinations by decision-makers on PIP. Yet the DWP has still failed to clarify the ambiguity of the psychological distress criteria for people who are concerned about travelling by themselves and cannot successfully do so. Does this not show that SSAC should have been properly consulted throughout this procedure before the revised, tougher—yet still ambiguous—regulations were issued, given the errors, inconsistency and ambiguity in the DWP’s handling of PIP in the past? Frankly, should the department not stop digging?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I do not think the last comment was worthy of the noble Baroness. The point we are making is that the Upper Tribunal saw a lack of clarity in these regulations. It was appropriate that the department acted quickly. In a previous Statement we made it clear that we were going to act quickly and that we were going to consult SSAC on this matter. The matter was put to SSAC. SSAC considered it. SSAC then wrote to the department earlier this week and today my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled People wrote back to SSAC. The noble Baroness can see that letter in due course—she seems to indicate that she already has a copy of the letter. I have a copy, but there is no need for us to read it out to the House. The noble Baroness has a copy of the letter that deals with those matters. I believe that we have done this in exactly in the right way and that we are bringing clarity to a matter that needed some clarity, following the remarks of the Upper Tribunal.

Universal Credit

Debate between Lord Henley and Baroness Hollis of Heigham

Thursday 9th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, we were grateful for the support of the Liberal Party as part of the coalition Government in the passage of the Bill and in reaching that appropriate design, whereby we were looking for something that mirrors the world of work. That is what we are doing. That is why we also built in, as I made clear in my original Answer, the safeguards that we have. That is why, for example, I have stressed that there are universal credit advances for certain individuals who are having problems coping with that four-week waiting period.

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure that all of us in this House want universal credit to work, but it is not. There have been pilot schemes showing how people are being plunged into debt through no fault of their own. There are three simple administrative changes, as my noble friend on the Front Bench mentioned, that would transform the easy delivery of UC and prevent people spiralling into deep debt from which many can never recover. The first is to get rid of the seven-day waiting period; the second is to pay people fortnightly as well as monthly in advance, if they so wish; and the third is to pay housing benefit, if tenants so wish, direct to the landlord. Those three things together would transform the ability of people who are not particularly sophisticated about the benefit system—why should they be?—and give them the opportunity to get money that will help them back into the labour market, as we all want, and not have a lifetime of debt hanging over them.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am very grateful that the noble Baroness offers support for universal credit. Like her, we wish to see it work, which is why, as my noble friend Lord Freud always made clear, we want to see a very slow rollout of universal credit. The noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, will be aware just how slow that rollout has been—deliberately so, before the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, giggles too much—so that we can learn as this goes along. I do not necessarily accept the three points that the noble Baroness made, but they can be taken into account as we continue with that rollout as it accelerates over the coming year.

Personal Independence Payments

Debate between Lord Henley and Baroness Hollis of Heigham

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

Can I again make it clear to the House that we are not in any way trying to suggest that people with any particular condition should be deprived of PIP? As the noble Baroness and the House will be aware, when we brought in PIP the arrangements were much more generous and reached far more people than DLA did in the past. It is not any specific condition that is being looked at here; people are not awarded PIP on the grounds of any specific medical condition but because of the way that particular impairment or medical condition affects their ability to live an independent life. That is what we are trying to do with PIP, or it is what we were trying to do and want to try to get back to.

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Lab)]

My Lords, it is not the case that PIP is more generous than DLA. The Minister has only to consult the information produced by Motability on the number of the people losing cars to know that that is not a correct statement. Let me go back to the substance: we all know that DLA, followed by PIP, is not an income-replacement benefit but an extra-costs benefit associated with disability. What analysis have the Government made of the extra costs facing people with mental health problems, which would underpin their eligibility for the points assessment in assessing the awards for PIP? Given that there is not a clear answer, which I accept, would it not be wise and prudent to refer it to the Social Security Advisory Committee, whose job is precisely to steer the Government in areas such as this?

[Lord Henley]

On the noble Baroness’s first point, I go back to what I originally said: there are many more claimants on PIP with mental health conditions who are claiming the mobility component. It is 29% compared to the 9% who were on DLA, which was not as good at reaching these people as PIP is. As regards her second point, it was right that, the decisions of the two tribunals having been made, and complaints having being made by the tribunals about a lack of clarity in the original directions, or words to that effect, we should correct those directions and get back to what Parliament originally intended. That is what we are trying to do and will do in these regulations.

Immigration: Foreign University Students

Debate between Lord Henley and Baroness Hollis of Heigham

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, it is for the universities themselves to encourage people to come to them. As I have put it on a number of occasions, we want to control the bogus students. We have not seen a reduction in the number of proper students who come to proper universities. We have, in fact, seen an increase over the years, and I do not see why any changes we make to the way in which we count our immigration statistics are likely to discourage people from coming to this country.

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware, as the House is aware, that 60% of overseas migrants to this country are students, and the Government are concerned to cap the number of overseas foreign migrants to this country. However, the Minister will surely also be aware of his own Home Office research of November 2010, which shows, as other contributors to your Lordships’ debate have said today, that 96% of students who are registered for degrees at bona fide universities return home at the end of their course. We are talking not about statistics here but about policy. Can the Minister therefore not put students who apply for bona fide degrees, and all the gains between this country and their home countries, in a different stream from the Government’s efforts to cap foreign migrants who come to this country?

[Lord Henley]

We are, in fact, talking about statistics. The Question is about statistics and about how—

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham]

No, you are not.

[Lord Henley]

That is what the Question is about, and I am answering it in those terms. We are talking about the statistics and how we measure the number of migrants coming here. Merely changing the way that we count those immigrants does not affect students coming into this country. I simply do not see how the way in which we count overseas students makes any difference to the decision made by them as to whether they come here. The only restriction we impose on them is that they have to speak English and need an offer of a place at that university.

Immigration

Debate between Lord Henley and Baroness Hollis of Heigham

Monday 19th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, obviously, we will keep all these matters under review as is appropriate, but the noble Lord will also accept that it is quite right that we should attack the bogus colleges, which his party took no trouble to attack over the years. That is why there was a dramatic rise in the number of people coming here allegedly to learn English or some other thing, who went to colleges where no courses were going on and virtually no one enrolled other than to get round immigration rules.

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham]

My Lords, does the noble Lord accept, as my noble friend said, that about 60 per cent of the non-EU migrants to this country are students and that, of those doing a proper degree course at the sort of university that my noble friend talked about, 98 per cent are compliant with immigration controls and return to their country—98 per cent? So we are losing both the opportunity of their fees coming into the university sector and the possibility of helping DfID export their skills back to their home country.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I do not accept what the noble Baroness says, but if she can provide proper evidence for that, we will certainly look at it in due course. We are not aware that universities are complaining; we are aware that a certain number of private colleges— the bogus colleges to which I referred earlier—are complaining. That is why we will want to deal with that. In the main, I think it is quite right that we should tighten up on people coming to university and that is why, for example, there are rules about family members coming in which, again, the party opposite failed to introduce. Those have been tightened up for undergraduates but not for postgraduates.