Jobs Market

Debate between Lord Katz and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill

Wednesday 23rd July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

My noble friend makes a very strong point. He will be aware that in the recently published immigration White Paper, the Home Office outlined the steps it is taking to reduce net migration while supporting the labour market across all sectors. On the part of the DWP, my department will play a key part in this work, sitting, as a member of the new labour market evidence group, alongside the Migration Advisory Committee, the Industrial Strategy Advisory Council, Skills England and the relevant devolved skills bodies. I am sure that that will address the concern my noble friend has outlined.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, what assessment have the Government made of how far the increase in employers’ NICs in April 2025 led to a further switch-out of regular employment into contract work or self-employment as a means of employers avoiding employers’ NICs? There is some evidence that this has been happening, and it is bad news for the public purse, as contractors pay a lot less in NICs and individual workers miss out on all the standard employment rights, including workplace pensions, paid holidays, sick pay et cetera.

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

The noble Lord will be aware that in the Employment Rights Bill we are undertaking a sector-wide, labour force-wide reassessment and review of employment status that will take into account employment, freelance, self-employment and contracted status. I understand the question. Going back to the original point of the noble Lord’s question, we had to take some very difficult decisions as a Government upon coming into office and finding the £22 billion black hole legacy.

Employment Rights Bill

Debate between Lord Katz and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill

Report stage
Wednesday 16th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

To be clear, if there is a recognised trade union or you are a member of a trade union then you can take a trade union representative, but you also have the right to be accompanied by a workmate. If you are a member of a trade union, you do not need to take that trade union representative along; you could have a workmate come along. If responsible employers want to have more flexibility, they can write this into their terms and conditions. There is nothing to stop people doing that. That is why I suggested, to again use the phrase, that the solution to such a problem is not something we really need to respond to in the legislation because it might create unintended consequences and, in terms of the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, unfair administrative burdens on employers. Therefore, I ask the noble Lord to withdraw Amendment 98.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, we have had some very interesting comments here from various people. I remind noble Lords that all we are saying is that people should have a choice. They could have a trade union representative, fine, but 77.7% of people are in firms that do not have a trade union. But if there was a trade union, that is fine.

The alternative is that, as the noble Baroness, Lady O’Grady, said, you could have a fellow worker. But the point of the amendment is that we are saying that the workers need to have a trained person to represent them. It can be a trade unionist—that is fine—but, if it is not, it will be like when a person goes to the solicitor at the end of the road and gets him to represent them on a complicated issue: he is the wrong person to represent them on that issue. You have to have someone who has some training. The trade unionists have the training, but they do not represent everybody. We are saying that the person who is seeking help should have someone who is trained.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, for what she said; I gather, from having spoken to her, that she will support the amendment in my name. Bearing in mind the lateness of the hour, I would like to test the feelings of the House.

United Kingdom Jobs Market

Debate between Lord Katz and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill

Wednesday 11th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. He, like me, will be waiting with bated breath for the publication of the Government’s industrial strategy White Paper, which will set out the Government’s approach to investing in eight priority sectors—those deemed most likely to drive UK economic growth. It will not surprise the noble Lord or, indeed, the House that digital technologies, including artificial intelligence, will be one of the sectors right at the heart of the Government’s industrial strategy. As I have set out, we have a youth guarantee to deliver a record spend for young people. Ensuring they can take advantage of the opportunities of AI will be at the heart of making that work.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, could the Minister actually answer the Question, which is about the assessment of jobs that will be available? He has spoken about various things that are in flow, but could he give some indication as to how the Government see the various sectors of our society and the jobs that will be needed? There is always a feeling that we are waiting for some report, but there is no assessment of which sectors are in need of employees and workforce. Can the Minister indicate which sectors of society will be looked at for future employment?

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I am afraid I will repeat myself: a great deal of it will be delivered through the industrial strategy White Paper. We are looking at the sectors that will lead to the future economic growth of this country—advanced manufacturing, clean energy, the creative industries, digital and technologies, defence, financial services, life sciences, and professional business services. As we heard from the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, on the previous Question, financial services will be a key part of our economic growth. These are the areas in which the jobs will come. It is our role as a Government to make sure everybody can access quality jobs in these economic sectors and that is what we will do.

Employment Rights Bill

Debate between Lord Katz and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill

Committee stage
Tuesday 13th May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Katz (Lab)]

It will not come as a surprise to my noble friend that we cannot accept the amendment in front of us today. However, I am very happy to work with him to ensure that your Lordships’ House can consider this most important issue again on Report. So I respectfully ask him not to move this amendment and ask that the noble Lord withdraws his amendment.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

I feel humbled by this debate. It started off for me with the noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie, and the right reverend Prelate and it went on in the same vein, right across the House: the feeling that there was this Bill, the Employment Rights Bill, and that we recognise that within employment rights there are carers who have been ignored and need to be paid for what they are doing, for people and for the system that they underwrite.

The Government have not really replied in positive enough terms on this, but we will come back to this on Report with specific amendments. By that time, I hope that Government Ministers will go back to their colleagues in the other place and say that across the House, from all parts of this House, there was a feeling that unpaid carers need to be recognised in the Employment Rights Bill, and that kinship carers, who have not been recognised before, need to be recognised. We hope the Government have heard this and we look forward to a positive response by Report. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.