Universal Credit (Removal of Two Child Limit) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Kennedy of Southwark and Lord Bishop of Durham

3rd reading
Friday 24th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, I request your Lordships’ patience for a few minutes as I make a few remarks. I express my deep gratitude to all those who have supported this Private Member’s Bill and the effort to remove the two-child limit. I thank those across all Benches who have contributed during the passage of the Bill. I particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott, who, for much of the time I sought to highlight the wrong of the two-child limit, was the Minister who had to respond. She was always willing to engage and debate with me. We did not reach agreement, but I publicly thank her for the way that she worked with me.

I recognise particularly the work of the Child Poverty Action Group, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the North East Child Poverty Commission, and their staff, who have provided valuable support and encouragement throughout this process. I publicly thank my two parliamentary assistants who have worked with me on the Bill, Emily King and Becky Plummer. They have been superb. I also thank Kim Johnson MP, who has agreed to take the Bill forward in the other place, and many other MPs who have already promised their support.

In less than two weeks, it will be the six-year anniversary of the introduction of the two-child limit, restricting universal credit support to only the first two children in a family. The policy was originally introduced to ensure that

“people on benefit should face the same choices as those in work and those not on benefits”,

while driving real action to

“make the biggest difference to the most disadvantaged children now and in future.”—[Official Report, Commons, 20/7/15; cols. 1258-63.]

It has indeed made a difference to those children’s lives, though regrettably not the one that was intended. While the policy aimed to address the root causes of poverty, the two-child limit has instead become the greatest contributor to driving more children into poverty. It impacts an estimated 1.3 million children, disproportionately affecting children of certain religions and ethnic-minority backgrounds.

Just this week, Barnardo’s has included in its new report, A Crisis on our Doorstep, a recommendation that the policy should be removed. Most families that it applies to are already in work, negating the reasoning behind the policy of ensuring that those on benefits face the same decisions as those in work. In some circumstances, the policy has forced parents to instead make a different decision—the choice between terminating an otherwise wanted pregnancy or raising a family for which they cannot properly provide. That is a choice no parent should be faced with.

Life can be unpredictable, and larger families who fall on hard times, whether it is due to losing a job, falling ill or experiencing a pandemic, have no guarantee that they will be able to afford even the essentials. There is no longer a safety net to catch them and help put them back on their feet. My hope is that the Bill will change this. Through removing the two-child limit, each and every child will be valued, and children will no longer be reduced to a number but be seen as individuals with worth and potential. Ultimately, I hope that the Bill will mark one step towards making child poverty in this country a matter for the history books. I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I speak on behalf of my noble friend Lady Sherlock, who cannot be here today due to ill health. I will not detain the House for long, but I commend the right reverend Prelate on the perseverance he has shown in raising this issue with Ministers in every conceivable way, in Oral Questions and debates, by publishing reports, in meetings with Ministers, and now through a Private Member’s Bill. In doing so, he has given us the chance not just to discuss the important issue of the two-child limit but to highlight the growing problem of child poverty in Britain today. Sending the Bill to the other place will now give MPs the opportunity to reflect on the important issues it raises. However, before the Bill reaches them, it may be helpful if Ministers could do two things.

First, Ministers can clarify what they are trying to achieve through this policy, because it has felt a bit of a slippery target. It was initially about saving money to reduce the deficit, even though evidence now shows that the money the coalition Government saved on benefit cuts was then spent on tax cuts. Then it was about being fair to those in work, even though the two-child limit affects in-work benefits such as universal credit, and then, at least implicitly, it was to affect decisions on how many children people have. Since the evidence suggests that people hit by the two-child limit are not having any fewer children, and since most people hit are in work, can the Minister tell the House whether the policy has been a success?

Secondly, the right reverend Prelate asked at Second Reading whether the Government would introduce an impact assessment. That is not unreasonable, given that the policy has now been in operation for over six years. The then Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott, replied:

“To be truthful and straightforward, I cannot commit to an impact assessment. I do not believe, with what I know, that the Government would welcome from me the request that he has made”.—[Official Report, 8/7/22; col. 1228.]


The fact that Ministers in the other place would not like being asked to do it is not a good reason for the Government to refuse to tell us what the impact of the policy would be. Will this Minister be brave enough to go and ask the Secretary of State to produce an impact assessment? That would inform the debate in the other place rather well. I look forward to his reply.