Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 8th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Anderson of Ipswich (CB)]

My Lords, I have tabled a notice to oppose Clause 43, which has been signed by a former immigration Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhope, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee.

I have listened with great attention to what the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Gower, has just said, so I shall make it clear what the amendment is about. We are not trying to stop the Government doing what they say they need to do, but we are objecting to a means of doing it that is arguably unnecessary and which is certainly exorbitant—indeed, dangerously so.

The provision that Clause 43 would amend is Section 3(1) of the Immigration Act 1971, under the title:

“General provisions for regulation and control”.


Section 3(1) is indeed general in its scope. It provides for conditions to be imposed on any person who is given limited leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom. That includes those who are here on a student visa, a business visa or a spousal visa. The conditions that can currently be imposed on the grant of such visas do not appear in the amendment. I remind noble Lords what they are: they include the power to issue visas for certain types of work only, and the power to require visa holders to maintain themselves and their dependants without recourse to public funds. They are fair conditions, and they are well understood by those who are subject to them. Those people include—and I declare an interest—one of my sons-in-law, who is on the five-year pathway to indefinite leave to remain. The happy couple have settled in Norwich, but I try not to hold that against them.

Clause 43, if we were to pass it into law, would allow the Secretary of State to impose on any of these visa holders such conditions as the Secretary of State thinks fit. No limit of any kind is placed on this power, and its potential severity is shown by the illustrative restrictions given in Clause 43(2): electronic tagging, a curfew to operate in a place specified by the Secretary of State for unlimited periods of day or night, and requirements on individuals not to enter a specified area—exclusion zones—and not to leave a specified area, so-called inclusion zones.

Such conditions are not entirely without precedent in our law. They will be familiar to your Lordships from the terrorism prevention and investigation measures, or TPIMs, introduced in the TPIM Act 2011 and echoed in Part 2 of the National Security Act 2023, for those believed to be involved in foreign power threat activity. It might be thought extraordinary enough if this clause allowed individuals whose only crime is to have studied here or married a British citizen to be treated like terrorist suspects, but it is worse than that. Clause 43 would introduce a materially harsher regime than TPIMs in at least three respects.

First, there is the threshold for their use. TPIMs require a reasonable belief on the part of the Secretary of State that the subject is or has been involved in terrorism-related activity. Clause 43, by contrast, is universal in its application. There is no threshold. Even the most blameless of migrants, whose only crime is to have come here for a wholly legitimate purpose, may in law be subject to its full rigour.

Secondly, there is the scope. The measures that appear in Clause 43(2) are all familiar from Schedule 1 to the TPIM Act, but the range of possible TPIMs is at least finite. Not even in respect of those believed to be terrorists did Parliament trust the Government with the unlimited power to impose, in the words of Clause 43,

“such other conditions as the Secretary of State thinks fit”.

Thirdly, there are the safeguards. TPIMs can be imposed only after the Home Secretary has obtained both the permission of the High Court and the confirmation of the CPS that it is not feasible to prosecute the subject for any criminal offence. No such safeguard exists in Clause 43, which would allow the severest restrictions on personal liberty to be imposed by the Executive without the intervention of a court on a potentially vast range of people, without any requirement for consultation, authorisation, automatic judicial review of the kind that exists for TPIMs, or oversight.

Clause 43 came late to this Bill. It was introduced in Committee in the Commons. No attempt was made to defend its breadth of application, but the Minister for Border Security and Asylum, Angela Eagle, did explain the limited circumstances in which the Government proposed to use the new powers for which they were asking. It was intended for use, she said:

“Where a person does not qualify for asylum or protection under the refugee convention but cannot be removed from the UK because of our obligations under domestic and international law”.—[Official Report, Commons, Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill Committee, 13/3/25; col. 265.]


It was intended to allow the same conditions to be placed on such persons as they might have been subjected to under immigration bail. She said:

“The powers will be used only in cases involving conduct such as war crimes, crimes against humanity, extremism or serious crime, or where the person poses a threat to national security or public safety”.—[Official Report, Commons, Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill Committee, 13/3/25; col. 268.]


Speaking for myself, that objective is entirely understandable, indeed defensible, though I pause to say that the definition of extremism is worryingly uncertain. Given the Government’s limited ambitions for the use of this clause, can the Minister explain why the existing powers to issue TPIMs, serious crime prevention orders and measures under Part 2 of the National Security Act 2023 are considered insufficient? They contain better safeguards and seem to meet precisely the cases that the Minister has in mind. Indeed, serious crime prevention orders are to be extended further by Part 3 of this Bill. If I am right about that, there is no need for Clause 43, but I am sure the Minister will explain.

Even if these existing powers are not sufficient, any new power must surely be tailored to its intended target, rather than to the vast range of innocent visa holders covered by Clause 43 in its current form. That is what the Constitution Committee had in mind when we recommended that the power be narrowed and that safeguards on its use be included in the Bill. The Joint Committee on Human Rights reported in similar terms. For anyone who is interested in more detail, I can recommend the useful briefings from Amnesty and the Public Law Project.

No one doubts for a moment the good faith of the Minister or his colleagues, but to legislate for unlimited powers and trust to assurances from the Dispatch Box about the narrow scope of their intended use would not just be poor legislative practice but an abandonment of parliamentary scrutiny at the very time when that scrutiny is most needed. The courts have no regard to ministerial assurances, save when the terms of an Act are ambiguous. That, as noble Lords know, is a rare eventuality.

No one who looks at the opinion polls can be confident that all possible future Governments would apply Clause 43 with the restraint to which this Government have committed. To enact Clause 43 would be a gift-wrapped present to any future Government who wished to threaten or erode the rights of immigrants across the board, without thresholds or oversight. If this clause is needed at all, I hope the Minister will agree that it should at least be confined in the Bill to the circumstances where that need arises.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

I am very pleased to support the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, and my name is on this amendment. I would just like to say to my noble friend Lord Davies that I was indeed the Immigration Minister, and I came forward with the term “being firm but fair” in relation to all immigration matters. I think that has stood the test of time. I have always believed in very strict conditions being attached not only to the Immigration Rules and their application but to our approach to those who seek asylum in this country.

My name is on this amendment because this is something of an example of a Government using a sledgehammer where it has been quite unnecessary to do so. This clause is so general and so wide in its effects that it seems to me to go against all propriety and balance. I will be very brief because I do not want to fall into the trap of repeating what the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, has said, but I want to tease the Minister out a little on those points.

We know that terrorism prevention and investigation measures, TPIMs, are already very effective, and as are serious crime prevention orders. They all have within them the necessary ingredients to be able to deal with virtually all the circumstances that we are debating in relation to this Bill. Therefore, I again suggest to the Minister that it is unnecessary for us to have these extra powers being sought by the Government. It is true that the Minister in the House of Commons gave a clear indication that the use would be only limited. The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, has given us the list of things where there might be interest here. However, in the circumstances, these intentions of the Minister do not necessarily make good law and I am sure he shares my concern that, if you allow extensions in this way, you are allowing future Governments to abuse the system and the situation unnecessarily.

Also, these new measures, unlike TPIMs or the SCPOs, do not seem to require any judicial approval. There is no such requirement, so far as I can see. As a fairly junior lawyer, but a lawyer nevertheless, I find that reprehensible and dangerous. I would like the Minister’s comments on that.

Borders and Asylum

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

We are open to a range of discussions on any issue because it is a manifesto commitment for us to end hotel use by the end of this Parliament. The Prime Minister, the Home Secretary, myself and others in government want to do that as quickly as possible, but—and I say this, I hope, helpfully to the noble Baroness—we have to do this in an ordered, managed fashion. We are trying to do that in an ordered, managed fashion now by reducing the level of hotel use as a whole, filling up the remaining hotels so that we maximise their use and looking at how we can exit those hotels over time. In the past 12 months, we have saved around £1 billion of taxpayers’ money by the measures that we have taken. We have had limited success to date in reducing the number of hotels, but we intend to speed that up. The suggestions that have been made will always be examined, but the ultimate objective for the noble Baroness, the Refugee Council and for us is to make sure that we exit hotels, speed up asylum claims and make sure that those who have asylum claims are dealt with and allowed to remain in the United Kingdom with a properly adjudicated, speedy asylum claim.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former Immigration Minister in this country and say that I sympathise with anybody who has to conduct the business of immigration, particularly with the pressures we have now. I very much welcome most of what the Government are now proposing. I hope it is possible for us to avoid a build-up of rhetoric, which I am afraid I have seen from all quarters, particularly the more extreme quarters in our country, in recent months.

I will contain myself to asking two simple questions. One is in relation to family reunion. I think it is right to say that the majority of people coming by boat seem to be very young men—of course, we have always had many people arriving to seek asylum in other ways—and in that sense I feel that we can resist the question of family reunion rather more positively than with different age groups and types. I wonder whether the Minister would confirm whether he thinks that particular part of the policy could be successful.

Secondly, does the Minister agree that perhaps we need to make sure that our officials are rather better educated on the 1951 refugee convention, which of course is the basis of all asylum granting? We seem to be allowing a lot of people to come to this country and to have asylum—which is a very valuable thing to grant—without really pursuing the very narrow criteria that grant that asylum. Therefore, the percentage of people who are being granted at first instance has shot up enormously, certainly from my day, and I think it is too high. My own view is that we need to make sure that our officials are clear and fair, but that they stay with those criteria in their deliberations and decisions.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

As the noble Lord is one of the former Ministers in this House who have dealt with immigration, I know he will understand very clearly the challenges the Government face and the difficulties we have in delivering on these issues. I very much welcome his comments and suggestions.

With regard to family reunion, one of the reasons that we are going to lay the SI very shortly and put a temporary suspension on family reunion is so that we can review how it is being applied at the moment. I mentioned the figures earlier but they are always worth repeating: there was a 111% increase on 2023 and a 378% increase on 2022. Some examination is obviously needed of who is being granted family reunion and why. That is why the temporary suspension is on. We will bring forward legislation to bring that into effect at some point and will review the operation of family reunion. The points that the noble Lord has made will be part of that consideration as a whole.

The noble Lord’s second point is also well made and I will certainly examine those comments. In the interest of time, for now, I hope it will help him to have had some answers to his questions.

Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 2nd June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I speak on this Bill as someone who has spent much of my political life focused on home affairs, justice and border security, including as a former Immigration Minister and as a spokesman in the European Parliament. I begin by welcoming the Government’s renewed focus on these vital matters, but I urge Ministers to draw a clear and consistent distinction between immigration and asylum. They are two very different issues, each requiring its own approach and solution.

Our immigration policy must be rules-based, fair to those who follow the system and firmly rooted in the national interest, supporting our economy, our public services and the social fabric of this country. But please remember: immigration, as opposed to asylum, is entirely in the hands of Governments. They set priorities, categories and numbers. And please do not be deceived by the term “net migration”. Regardless of numbers entering the country, if more people leave, the figures come down; if fewer leave, they go up. Too many valuable people leaving is also surely not in our interests.

Asylum must be firm but fair. We must honour international commitments and offer protection to those who flee from persecution. We must also be resolute in removing those whose claims have failed swiftly, humanely and without unnecessary delay. Justice must be seen to be done, and public confidence depends on it. Immigration, when managed responsibly, is a source of strength for society. However, long-term success requires more border controls; it requires integration, communication and trust. That is why I encourage the Government to return responsibility for community and race relations to the Home Office so that it sits alongside immigration policy and supports a more coherent and co-ordinated approach and ensures—as I tried to do—better integration and acceptance of those admitted to our country.

The number of irregular small boat arrivals rose by 22% in the year up to March 2025. That is a sharp increase despite the growing success of the French authorities to deter them. The public are right to expect firm action, but the loss of legal routes and facilities at UK representations around the globe has certainly not helped. More must be done to disrupt the criminal gangs to end the perilous journeys and secure our borders. However, lasting solutions can come only through serious practical co-operation with our neighbours, not schemes that involve sending asylum claimants thousands of miles away for processing—which are, at best, legally questionable, expensive and ineffective.

I note the Government’s interest in creating overseas hubs as temporary locations only for failed asylum seekers but not for applicants. This might be helpful, but it should never replace the return of such people to their source countries. Applying pressure on the Governments of those which are reluctant to receive back and protect their citizens is an appropriate and at times necessary action. It has been done before with positive effect.

Acquiring asylum is a precious thing with clear criteria. Over the last few years, we seem to have been extending improperly those criteria, leading to far greater numbers being granted asylum than I think is correct under the terms of the 1951 convention on refugees. Although I fully appreciate the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Macdonald, a short time ago as to some changing circumstances since 1951, there have recently been signs of stricter enforcement and better understanding and interpretation of the rules, which is welcome.

In that context, I welcome the UK-EU common understanding, particularly part 6 on irregular immigration, which rightly highlights the importance of information sharing, something I have long championed. The previous Government began developing I-LEAP, a platform to improve data exchange at the border. That work must continue and accelerate, and I urge Ministers to prioritise and, crucially, pursue renewed co-operation with European partners to restore UK access to the Schengen Information System, which I played a part in introducing.

SIS II is the most widely used and largest security and border management information sharing system in Europe. In 2019—the last year the UK had access—it was checked by British police over 603 million times. That level of operational intelligence is essential to protecting our citizens and securing our borders. Its loss, with real-time access, was one of the many negatives in our leaving the EU.

We now have an opportunity to modernise our systems, to act with purpose and to rebuild trust in how we manage our borders. That means processing and removing failed asylum seekers in a timely manner, stopping dangerous crossings and working in genuine partnership with allies. If we are serious about border security, we must be serious about the tools and co-operation that make it possible.

UK Resettlement Scheme 2025

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Thursday 27th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The UK Government continue to discuss on a yearly basis with the UNHCR what the requirements and pressures are. As the noble Lord will know, both the previous Government and this Government have given safe and legal routes to around 680,000 people in the past 10 years alone. We are continuing to work with the agency and we are looking at that for next year—in my original Answer to the noble Lord, I said that we are looking at potential quotas for 2025. He makes an interesting suggestion for certainty, but we need to examine the requests of the UNHCR, what their demands on us are and how we can potentially accommodate any or all of those requests.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I had the honour of being the Minister responsible for the conduct of the Bosnian resettlement programme in 1996 under the auspices of the United Nations. Although I can see the merit of a quota, I hope that the Government will have enough flexibility in such schemes to allow for the changes that take place across the world and the pressures that arise from different places at different times.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a very important point. He will be aware that, three and a half years ago, for example, nobody would have suggested that we would have the number of Ukrainian individuals on temporary placement in the United Kingdom because of the pressures of the illegal war by the Russians in Ukraine. Therefore, that flexibility needs to be maintained. What we are saying is that we are in constant discussion with the UNHCR and we want to meet our legal obligations. The 680,000 people in the past 10 years show that we are. The noble Lord makes a valid point that we do not know what may happen in the future which may cause challenges for the United Kingdom and indeed for the UNHCR.

Overseas Companies: UK-registered Subsidiaries

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 17th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that point. The Procurement Act 2023 allows, for the first time ever, the Government to have a list of companies that are debarred from submitting bids for any public contracts. That said, there has always been an exclusion list of companies that have committed fraud or anti-competitive practices. This is done by each individual department. Companies bidding for this will be told that they will not be successful because they are excluded from contracts. We have come a long way from exclusion to debarment, and this list is now in the early stages of being compiled.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, is the Minister satisfied with the criteria deployed in having companies available to tender for public sector work, bearing in mind the failure of a number of leading companies over a number of years that appear to still be available to tender on the Government’s list?

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

That was probably before the Procurement Act. Under the Act, companies that have been excluded will not be allowed to bid for any government contracts. Any companies found to be bid rigging will be debarred from bidding for any public contracts. We have come a long way. The Act has just come into force. Let us allow the Act to take its place and ensure that, whoever bids for the contract, they do so with the value for money that the Government are looking for.

Citizenship Applications

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

My noble friend has a long history of interest in and support for refugees and asylum seekers, and I respect and understand his position. The Government are trying to set down some basic red lines on a range of issues. The first red line is that people trafficking is a crime and will be pursued vigorously. The second is that the Rwanda scheme was ineffectual, and the third is that British citizenship is not a right but a privilege. That privilege will come to citizens if they enter this country under legal asylum routes or apply for citizenship through legal routes, but not if they have entered the country through an illegal route.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, it is important to support in general this approach by the Government, but I fear that there is some uncertainty. First, in relation to those who come here to claim asylum, under international law—we have had these debates on many occasions in the House—there is an argument that that in itself does not create illegality. It may be irregular but it may not be illegal. It is therefore important that the Government get their ducks in a row on this, because I think all of us would otherwise support the Government in saying that those who come here in blatant, illegal ways should not be granted the benefit of citizenship.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The Government believe, and I know that the noble Lord will share this belief, that the proposals in the guidance are compliant with our international obligations. It is an essential matter of government policy that we meet our international obligations. We believe that the Article 31 obligations are met by the proposals announced by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary on Monday of this week.

Syrian Asylum Applications

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that question. He makes a valid point. Unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, including those from Syria, will continue to be supported by local authorities in England, Scotland and Wales and by health and social care trusts in Northern Ireland, where appropriate, in line with the statutory duties of those authorities. We are trying to ensure that, if unaccompanied children are here now, that level of safeguarding is in place, for the reasons that I know the noble Lord is committed to and which previous safeguarding measures have somewhat failed.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, granting asylum is a very precious thing, and this country’s reputation with regard to that is something about which we ought to be very proud. Will the Minister comment on the basis of granting asylum? Are the Government still committed, as I believe is right, to the two main principles of the 1951 refugee convention, and are they implementing them strictly and properly in the granting of asylum applications?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I say to the noble Lord yes, and I hope so. I can only be as open and fair to him as that. For the simple reason that we know what has happened in Syria, there is an assessment to be made of whether individuals wish to return to Syria or to seek asylum, and for those individuals who may seek asylum, what their status is. It is a very complex, moving situation. Therefore, in the Syrian context, the Government, along with their European partners and others, have to have a pause. I will take the points that he has made, and I hope I have answered them to his satisfaction.

Asylum Seekers: Accommodation

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The Government have an immigration White Paper due to be published shortly and I hope that all parties and Members can contribute to the discussion around that.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, is it not correct that the people of this country are concerned ultimately with having people removed who are shown to be illegally here? In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, when I was the Minister and the Conservative Party was in Government, we concentrated considerable resources on doing just that. I think the people of this country were very happy with that approach.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am pleased to inform the noble Lord that the current Government have removed in excess of 16,000 people who have no right to live in this country since we came to office in July last year, and we will continue to do that, but the key to removing people is the speed of assessment, which, to go back to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Davies, requires individuals employed to assess, test and determine. That is what this Government are focusing on: removals, speeding up assessment, and in the meantime, to go back to the original Question of the noble Lord, Lord Young, trying to find a way to save the taxpayer money on the costs associated with that temporary period when no determination has been made.

Defending Democracy Taskforce

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Monday 6th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I hope I can help my noble friend by saying that there is a dual approach to this. Safeguarding is obviously important. There are many young people who can be drawn into potential terrorist activity at a very early age, and it is important that we treat those people as young people but also recognise the influences given to them. The Government’s Prevent strategy is also about making sure that we identify where serious intervention is needed to prevent potential radicalisation. We keep all those options open. That is important because we do not want to create a cadre of future terrorists, be they from whatever wing of terrorism activity. I have seen and witnessed young people who have had extreme right-wing, Islamist and other forms of radicalisation against gay and homosexual individuals. None of that is acceptable, and we need to identify how we best intervene to prevent that activity occurring.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, with the development of AI and social media, is the Minister satisfied that the present defamation laws in this country are adequate to deal with those threats?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

If the noble Lord will allow me, I cannot confess at this Dispatch Box to be an expert on current defamation laws, but I understand, potentially, where he is coming from on this issue. Let me just say that everybody is entitled to freedom of speech and to their view, but when lies and mistruths are portrayed by individuals, it is right and proper that individuals respond in a robust and effective fashion. That is what this Government intend to do in relation to any lies portrayed against individuals or members of the United Kingdom as a whole.

Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [HL]

Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in today’s Committee proceedings on the Bill. In doing so, I declare my interests as set out in the register, not least my technology interests; in particular, I have advised and socially recruited for an AI business.

In moving Amendment 52, I shall speak also to Amendments 53 and 79 in my name. These may seem disparate and interestingly grouped together, but they have three things largely in common. There are three of them, I wrote them all and, most importantly, they are all underpinned by the potential of having a golden thread of inclusion and innovation running right though them.

On Amendment 52, I am looking for the Government to consider a metrology standard around supply chains, which are notoriously opaque. If you try to go beyond even one step back in any supply chain, things start to get a bit fuzzy. As a result of the technologies now available to us, however, there is the potential to unite in real time physical goods, legal documentation, financial documentation and all customs documents. More than that, there is the potential to link all the environmental factors, not just of that supply chain but of the goods and services involved in it, right from the point when they were brought into being. This is another example of the extraordinary power of the new technologies and what the data that underpins them can bring in driving economic as well as social benefits, while under- pinning environmental benefits as a consequence. What is the Government’s position on how we could look at developing such a standard for the supply chain, which would be beneficial not just in each specific supply chain—for all those businesses and entities involved—but right across our society and economy?

Amendment 53 looks at large language models—the foundational models that have had so much publicity and focus, not least in the last two years. As with Amendment 52, I suggest the development of a standard around LLMs and consider the achievement of that standard to enable access to the UK market and economy. Again, that would be beneficial to consumer and citizen, and social, economic and, yes, environmental benefits could all flow from it. It is important to consider not only the economic and environmental costs of developing those foundational models but their usage, every time somebody asks one of these models—we all know their names—a query about those costs. All that would be worth considering in the development of a standard. On the specifics of some of the data used in the development and training of those models, we should look at the IP and copyright issues and consider the legislation and whether the LLMs would fall into the category of an article for the purposes of the copyright Act.

I should be interested in the Minister’s view on the specifics within that amendment and the benefit that could be gained from the development and work—even if a standard was not the final output—to be done around these models, and the levels of understanding and public awareness that could flow from such a piece of work.

Amendment 79 suggests the development of a standard: inclusive by design, or IBD. Be one young, old, a disabled person, or somebody from any socio- economic group, geography or city, putting IBD in a product benefits everybody by the very nature of that inclusion. There are two parts to this. First, all new products should be developed and deployed as inclusive by design. That should be self-evident and relatively straightforward to bring about. Secondly, and perhaps as important, largely because it is less discussed, there is what happens when a product has previously been inclusive and accessible but then, as a result of a change, an update or a new product rollout, becomes inaccessible and exclusionary.

It is probably best to draw this out through example. Consider the card readers that we all use to pay for goods. For many years, they were inclusive to me as a blind person and to all members of society, not least through the simplest elements of raised keys and a dot on the “5” key. I would know exactly where that was and I, inclusively and independently, could put my PIN into the card machine. Then we saw the rollout of completely flat-screen card payment machines. They are not inclusive or accessible, and of no use to me and millions of people up and down the country who, prior to that product rollout, could have inclusively, independently and—crucially in this context—secretly made their payments. What option is there now, if presented with a flat screen machine? Should one whisper, sotto voce, “4982”? That is not my PIN number. Even if it were, the paucity of funds in the account renders it worthless for noble Lords to remember. Or should I give my card to a friend or ask the person in the store to make the payment under those terms?

None of that is inclusive, independent, secret or in any sense dignified for a citizen in 21st century Britain. Amendment 79 is all about looking into the development of a standard, inclusive by design. Imagine what we could do right across our society and economy. Think about the debate, discourse and discussion, and the positive input that the development of this standard could have across this country, and then connecting right around the world. Such a positive piece of work could drive benefits, business, economic opportunities and social inclusion. It would be good for citizens, business, innovators, investment and our country.

I look forward to the Minister’s response. I hope it will be seen as a positive piece of work that could easily be picked up and rolled out by the Government. I very much look forward to the debate. I beg to move.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I always like the opportunity to hear my noble friend Lord Holmes because his amendments mostly very much appeal to me. Today’s Amendment 79, to which he has just spoken so eloquently, certainly appeals to me, and I just wanted to add a few words.

I am responsible, for my sins, for the Parking Act 1989, which I am sure noble Lords will spend a lot of time reviewing and considering. The nature of that Act was for the first time to allow parking to take place in this country in a way that did not exclusively require the use of cash. We were slightly ahead of the game at the time, because I think we had only Barclaycards and not telephone exchanges that you could ring into to park your car. All these things have come about because of that simple Act.

I share the frustrations of my noble friend Lord Holmes when we look at how so many things nowadays are developments of such initiatives but without taking into account the great importance of trying to be as broad as possible in their appeal and use. A good example of that was given by my noble friend. There are many machines—I know he has expressed his frustration before about cash machines—and other products, in the general sense, that cannot be accessed by people with disabilities, or where there is insufficient explanation of how they can be implemented. I very much support his ideas about inclusive by design and see no reason why, in the 21st century, we cannot be more enlightened about this. It seems unnecessary for it to have to be raised in this way regularly in legislation that we pass in Parliament, but here we have a marvellous opportunity for the Government—the Minister is looking very excited about this prospect—to introduce, in a legitimate area of the Bill, something that will really make lives much better for those with disabilities through product development. I very much support Amendment 79.