Gaza: Hunger Alleviation

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the projections of famine, the report says that one in five households faces an extreme food shortage and one in three children is acutely malnourished. Famine is projected to occur in the northern part of Gaza

“anytime between mid-March and May 2024”.

The issue of food insecurity is very clear. Previous assessments of compliance with IHL have been documented in your Lordships’ House. We regularly review advice about Israel’s capability and commitment to IHL and will act in accordance with that advice.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, I visited Kerem Shalom, as disclosed in my register of interests. All the operatives we met have either been killed or abducted and the equipment destroyed. However, Israel—which has never denied Gaza humanitarian aid—now has the capacity to pass 44 trucks per hour into Gaza. On 10 March, 150 lorries passed through, supplying 3,750 tonnes of food, equivalent to four pounds per person. If we are to seek peace, reconciliation and a ceasefire, does the Minister not agree with me that it is very important not to have disinformation, particularly about Israel? It has always sought to ensure that humanitarian aid is supplied wherever it can. The problem has been the UNRWA distribution thereof.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have been very clear about the importance of aid entering Gaza unimpeded. There have been claims and counterclaims. The United Kingdom has been very clear that Israel is not letting enough trucks through the crossing. The number that my noble friend quotes is factual, but it is also true that 500 trucks were entering before the war. Some statements have been made that commercial items were included within that. Yes, they were, but there was also food grown in Gaza, which is no longer possible. That is why there is an acute need. The 500 that is consistently stated is not a high threshold but the minimum threshold, and it is needed now.

Foreign Affairs

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Ahmad, and express some sympathy to my noble friend the Foreign Secretary. I am sure that, when he received the call from the Prime Minister inviting him to be Foreign Secretary, his mind must have turned to trips to the Arctic, rainforests in Brazil and white tie receptions in Washington as the Ferrero Rocher was handed around—perhaps not a six-hour debate that some would say reminds them of a radio station phone-in without even the break of adverts in the middle. However, here we are. I hope I can add to the sum of knowledge with some thoughts. I refer to my register of interests in respect of Israel, as I will speak on that topic.

First, let us remind ourselves why we have this horrific situation in Gaza. As today’s United Nations report by Pramila Patten finally admitted and confirmed, it is because a horde of people, including UNRWA employees, as the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and my noble friend Lady Altmann explained, committed the most deplorable and evil of crimes against civilians. They were targeting civilians, who suffered not as innocent bystanders but as victims. They raped young girls so violently that they broke their pelvises. They tied and burned whole families together, ensuring that family members witnessed the death of their siblings, parents and children, and committed such evil atrocities as putting babies in ovens.

I am sorry to have to repeat this in graphic detail in your Lordships’ House, but I am afraid I feel I have to, as Hamas has vowed to repeat this again and again. It still holds innocent hostages in what must be unimaginably horrendous conditions. So we need a constant reminder as to why we cannot have an unconditional ceasefire in isolation. Given this report, will my noble friend now push the United Nations to confirm Hamas as a terrorist organisation? He might do likewise with the BBC, but we have tried that.

What option is there now other than to take every step to ensure that this does not happen again? If UK citizens, members of any of our families in this Chamber, were abducted on our soil, I would want to be sure that my Government pursued the perpetrators to the ends of the earth, even if on the way there were civilian losses that, while deeply regrettable, are, as my noble friend Lord Roberts of Belgravia, the distinguished military expert historian, and many others have pointed out, much lower than one might expect in this type of challenging and terrible urban warfare.

To suggest that the IDF is carrying out a genocide is hugely insulting to the genuine victims of a genocide and to the IDF, which has been commended by our own military as the most humane army on the planet. It consists largely of civilian conscripts and has taken more steps than any other army in the history of human armed conflict to try to reduce harm to innocent civilians.

I applaud my noble friend’s valiant attempts to try to find a way through the current situation. He has set out his five clear objectives and I, for one, would like to support them. However, I will focus on one of his objectives that I believe needs some clarification: his horizon of an irreversible pathway to a state of Palestine. That needs much further thought. I am inclined to support it, and I believe that the citizens of Palestine deserve a free state of their own, but it needs some clarity. Perhaps a conference needs to be secured by my noble friend to address the issues of genuine concern. For example, to ensure that a free Palestine is freed from Hamas, will that state be a democracy or an autocracy? Will it be demilitarised? Will Jewish people be allowed to visit, work, study and pray, as Arabs from the West Bank are and should be? Will inspections be allowed to ensure that there are no tunnels? Will there be no treaty allowing funding or other arrangements with Iran? Will a border be created, such as the one in Cyprus, with international protections? In this new state, will the rights of gays, women, minorities and those with other religious practices be protected in the way that they are in Israel?

There are many other concerns—this is a first list. There is much work to be done now if a state is to be possible and not collapse into violent civil war, as in Sudan. We need to start work now, as there is just the possibility that after Hamas and its military infrastructure are destroyed, there might be a way forward to the peaceful co-existence we all seek.

Israel and Palestine

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate has illustrated my point. Faith does provide a solution, as we have just seen in practical terms.

In all seriousness, I am aware of those plans. The position is very clear: settlements are illegal, whether they are in east Jerusalem, the West Bank or elsewhere in the Occupied Territories. The United Kingdom’s position is very clear on this. What must prevail is the real sense that Jerusalem itself is a beacon for three important faiths, which is an important opportunity to seize. We need to recognise rights of access, and the reverence attached to that, but, equally, central to that is ensuring security and stability for Israelis and Palestinians, for Arabs, Jews, Christians and Muslims. That is the way in which we will find a solution. Inshallah, that is what we are focused on.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

As chairman of the Jerusalem Foundation UK, I agree with my noble friend’s last remarks. I point him to the letter in the Financial Times today, which explains that a two-state solution was imposed on Sudan, where there is now the most vicious civil war. Will the Foreign Office, in calling for a two-state solution, now start talking to interested parties about the nature of it—specifically, whether it will be a democracy, whether there will be a military, and whether there will be access to ensure that there are no tunnels? All these issues must be first addressed before calling for a two-state solution.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend charts a particular process item. That is why my noble friend the Foreign Secretary has been clear that, first and foremost, we must stop the current fighting. That will allow aid to go in and hostages to be released. However, where I disagree with my noble friend is that I think that a two-state solution is the viable option. The rights of people need to be protected and the rights of Palestinians need to be recognised. This is enshrined in international law through the UN Security Council, which of course created the State of Israel. It is important that we work directly with all partners, including Israel and the Palestinians. Democracy is a fundamental objective to ensure that the rights of all citizens—Israelis and Palestinians—are strengthened and protected.

Situation in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend the Foreign Secretary met the President of the Occupied West Bank Territories, Mahmoud Abbas, and will continue to talk to him to find, I hope, precisely that solution. On the noble Lord’s first point, on UNRWA, as I said, we have given to UNRWA what we were going to give this financial year, and the additional sums that we are promising will still get, in aid, to the people of Gaza through a variety of sources that I listed earlier.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister clarify his last remarks? When he said that my noble friend Lord Cameron has had discussions with the Prime Minister of Palestine, can we be crystal-clear that the United Kingdom will not recognise a state of Palestine that is led by the current Palestinian Authority and the Fatah organisation, which has been so involved in terror, and will not recognise a Gaza-led Government where Hamas has either control or power?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend, and allow me to clarify. We will recognise a Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution at the time that is right and with the leadership in place. We have already talked about needing a technocratic Government who will resolve the issues that exist within Gaza in particular, and we want to make sure that that Government do not have Hamas anywhere near them, or as part of them, and that they are trusted in those territories but also by the people of Israel, who want to live in peace with their neighbours.

Israel/Gaza

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, there is a prayer said in my synagogue and others at least once in every service by the whole community, and particularly by those in mourning:

“May He who makes Peace in His high places, may He make Peace for us, for all Israel and all mankind”.


It is pretty much the last prayer of the service, when we do not pray for a better quality of life, for happiness or for material success: we pray for peace, which is the ultimate gift God can give. I suspect there is a similar thread in other religions, not least the Muslim religion, as my noble friend Lord Ahmad said in his opening speech.

Before discussing Israel, I do, of course, refer to the register of interests, which discloses my close connections with Israel and, in particular, Jerusalem.

It must be clear to all right-minded people that Israel has the right and duty to ensure peace for all its citizens. It is now clear that the only way to achieve that, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, is the termination of the power of Hamas. Every other route has failed. Israel withdrew all its settlements in Gaza, left the opportunity to continue a successful agricultural industry, left the foundations of an airport and a sea port, and provided free electricity, but Hamas killed its opponents and then would not let its people benefit from anything it regarded as tainted by Israel.

To understand Hamas, you have to listen to Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of the founder of Hamas. He spent years in an Israeli prison, and now explains to the world that Hamas has only one objective, which is to enrich and empower itself, even at the risk of its own people. One has to ask how human beings can physically commit the atrocities that Hamas perpetrated a couple of weeks ago. Munira Mirza, writing in the New Statesman, explains it in part as the export of radical Islamism from Iran, which has a dogma to dehumanise non and ex-Muslims, treating women as lesser beings, and encouraging violent hatred of Jews. As she says, most Muslims do, of course, see through this, but a very small number have allowed themselves to be indoctrinated and brainwashed by fanatics.

There must be consequences of this evil perpetrated by Hamas on innocent Jews and innocent Muslims, so what do we need to do? First, we now need to proscribe the IRGC. I voted against the Government earlier this year for only the third time in 10 years. I did that with a heavy heart. It was during a debate on the security Bill, when there were efforts to enable legislation to be passed for the proscription. At the time, the Home Office was, I believe, in favour, but the Foreign Office claimed that the US Government did not want us to do this, as we would lose our embassy in Tehran. The position has now changed. I urge the Minister not to make me vote against my Government again. Will he please explain to us why our security services and the BBC took so long to confirm that the missile that landed near the al-Ahli hospital was not Israeli? Have we learned the lesson not to trust briefing from Gaza, but to know that the Israelis have a track record of telling the truth and undertaking proper investigation?

Secondly, we need to properly police the demos in the UK, which are clearly inciting violence. Further, I have seen the manual from Palestinian Action Underground with instructions on how to commit offences on British businesses supplying Israel. It even has its own website up and running. This needs to be closed.

Thirdly, we need to press Qatar to do more to secure the release of the hostages and reduce the violence. Lastly, we need to support Israel when it eventually enters Gaza to find these evil people, who will otherwise seek to kill again and are still sending rockets to Israel, even today into Tel Aviv.

As the international lawyer Natasha Hausdorff has explained, we need to be clear that it is entirely within international law for Israel to do what it is doing now, and what it needs to do: to enter Gaza, not supply electricity—which it had been giving freely to Gaza—and not allow in any fuel, which would only be used to make rockets. Of course, the leaders of Hamas have plenty of fuel and power; they have stolen it from the UNRWA enclaves. That fuel should instead be used for humanitarian purposes in hospitals.

The IDF has been rated by British servicemen as the most ethical military in the world. It is full of conscripts who are themselves regular citizens and quite rightly at pains to minimise any further suffering to civilians. Any breaches of international code by them, and indeed by settlers—as the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury has just said—deserve punishment and will receive it. However, we have to stand up, take the difficult decision and say, “We will back Israel to take these actions that it believes are necessary, as we believe this is the only route to peace”.

We know and mourn that there will be innocent tragedies—innocent fatalities. There always are in war. It is the price that Hamas has forced us to pay, but we still pray:

“May He who makes peace in His high places, may He make peace for us, for all Israel and all mankind. Amen”.

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[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, Sikh teachings remind us that conflict arises when we fail to recognise that we are all members of the same one human family, with equal rights and dignity. That sentiment is echoed in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which states that ignoring human rights can lead to suffering and lasting hatred.

In the 1930s and 1940s, Jews were vilified, not only in Germany but in much of Europe. The word “Jew” was used as a term of abuse. At school, I was frequently called a Jew by those who wished to hurt me. Then we saw film footage of atrocities in Belsen and other extermination camps. I have visited Auschwitz and seen evidence of the unbelievable cruelty shown to those considered lesser beings. Jews suffered horrendously in the Holocaust and from the cruel anti-Semitism of Europe. Some moved to Palestine to build a homeland where they could live free from persecution.

Despite clear promises made to the indigenous Palestinians that their rights would be safeguarded, many were forcibly moved from land that they had inhabited for centuries. Their anger and bitterness have been made worse by subsequent events and broken promises, such as that of the UN for a separate Palestinian state. The world has also turned a blind eye to illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank. According to a report by Amnesty International, Palestinians in Israel live in apartheid conditions, with discrimination in education, land ownership, housing and employment. Gaza has suffered an Israeli blockade of food and supplies for the last 16 years.

However, the deplorable and callous treatment of Palestinians cannot justify the barbaric attack by Hamas on the State of Israel and the taking of hostages. But the West’s unquestioning support for Israel and indifference to the suffering of Palestinians has fuelled anger and resentment, making any genuine peace settlement far harder.

In its recent report, Amnesty International reminds us that the Israeli blockading of food, fuel, electricity and water to Gaza, and the indiscriminate bombing of civilians, schools and hospitals, are crimes against humanity. It also refers to what it considers compelling evidence of Israel’s use of white phosphorus, which can burn to the bone. Why the silence of the UK Government and the western media? If this banned substance had been used by Russians in Ukraine, there would have been banner news headlines about a chilling disregard for human life. Now we have President Biden saying that the indiscriminate onslaught on Gaza should continue until all hostages have been released. Their lives are important, but so are the lives of 2 million inhabitants of Gaza. To rephrase an appropriate line from Shakespeare, “If a Palestinian is cut, does he not bleed?”

Israel’s response is not proportionate. It is the cruel, inhumane, collective punishment of some 2 million already deprived and starving people—a collective punishment not seen since the Second World War. The West needs to change 20th-century mindsets of friend, foe and strategic advantage to meet the new challenges of the 21st century. We have a responsibility to nudge both Israelis and Palestinians to look to common interests and a respect for human rights for both Jews and Palestinians.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

Before my friend the noble Lord sits down, is he aware that the Israel Defense Forces categorically and specifically denied using white phosphorus, and would he care to withdraw that suggestion?

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

They have, as one would expect, but is there any evidence? Is Amnesty International deliberately telling untruths?

Russia: Sanctions

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that, in many years across the Dispatch Box with him I have sought not to provoke him, and if I have done so, I have failed miserably on this occasion. However, I can give him that assurance. I totally agree with President von der Leyen’s statement, and we are working with our key partners on ensuring that the assets that have been frozen stay there. The important thing is the legal impact, and no country, including the various jurisdictions of the EU, has yet designed the system and structure to allow for those assets to be deployed for the reconstruction of Ukraine. We are working with the key countries, and, as the noble Lord knows from the Ukrainian Recovery Conference, with the private sector, on reconstruction.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

Given the assertion in the Washington Post last month that 6,000 drones have been supplied by Iran to Russia, will the Foreign Office reconsider its position on Iran, and in particular the IRGC?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend knows, we have taken a very firm line on Iran and sanctions. As the Minister responsible for Iran within the FCDO, I can say that we have taken a forward-leaning position on ensuring that Iran is held accountable for its actions. I agree with my noble friend that it is appalling that drones have been supplied directly by Iran. It is also interesting to note that Russia is now looking to the likes of Iran and the DPRK, both countries themselves subject to sanctions. I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, is saying from the Front Bench about the IRGC—that is why God has given us two ears: one for the questioner and one for the Labour Front Bench. Of course, I cannot speculate on future proscription, but I assure noble Lords that we keep all tools under review.

Occupied Palestinian Territories

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord asked a lot of questions and I doubt whether I will be able to answer them all. In both this House and the other House, the UK has repeatedly and strongly condemned the comments of the Israeli Finance Minister, who, as the noble Lord will know, called for the Palestinian village of Huwara to be “wiped out”. We condemn his recent comments, which deny the very existence of the Palestinian people, their right to self-determination, their history and their culture. The UK has been unequivocal in its condemnation of that language.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, I was in the West Bank last week and I talked to Palestinians. They said—and this was supported by surveys—that they no longer believe in the two-state solution. They saw what happened in Gaza, they do not trust their leadership and they want the advantage that Israeli benefits in health and so on can give them. Now is perhaps the time for the FCDO to lead the way and come up with a more imaginative solution, possibly modelled on the United Kingdom, where we have separate Governments for separate countries, because the two-state solution is a very long way away.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My noble friend is vastly more knowledgeable about and qualified to speak about this issue than I am, and he makes a fascinating contribution. The reality is that, wherever things end up, a prerequisite has to be the cessation of terrorism and violence on both sides.

Israel and Palestine

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Tuesday 7th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, let me be the first to congratulate the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries of Pentregarth, on the well-worded title of this debate and on his opening remarks. He is a most distinguished cleric, and it is very fitting that a cleric should choose to put a plea for peace in the title. He will be aware that one of the core prayers we recite in the Jewish religion, which some people recite three times a day, has the words:

“He who makes peace in his high places, may he make peace upon us and upon all Israel”.


Peace is the most sought after of all man’s objectives in our prayers. So I am grateful to him for moving this debate.

I am also grateful to the authorities for moving it from yesterday, when I believe it was originally scheduled to take place, because yesterday was the Jewish festival of Purim, where, incidentally, and most unusually, a requirement is to drink a lot of alcohol. So it would not have been a great day for me to be standing up in your Lordships’ House. As with many Jewish festivals, we celebrated the fact that evil people did not overthrow and kill the local Jewish population, as they sought to do. We were saved by a clever bit of manoeuvring by Esther, a Jewess who achieved favour in high places. It is a longer story, but we will leave it at that.

None the less, Jewish people have always been on the defensive and, not surprisingly, concerned for their own survival. When I was in Manchester city centre recently with my youngest daughter, we passed a demonstration with a red, green, black and white flag. They were chanting, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”. My daughter asked me, “What does that mean?” I had to explain to her that this was a group of people on UK soil seeking to wipe out the Jewish state of Israel. Israel faces similar threats now, some organised and promoted by Hamas and PFLP, and some random, such as the killing last month of the brothers, Hillel and Yagael Yaniv.

I move the point of the debate. What can be done? I know Jerusalem best, because I am chairman of the Jerusalem Foundation in the UK. I will be there next week, running a 10k around the city, with citizens from every background—Jewish, Muslim, Christian and no faith—all running together. It is a most uplifting experience. We are working hard to make Jerusalem a better place. I am not convinced that the UK Government, or any Government, can do as much as we would like in the cause of peace. It is the people, the individuals, who can do so much.

We are working hard to calm tensions there. For example, with British donors’ money, we are building two large community sports centres and swimming pools in East Jerusalem. British donors are paying for a project with the municipality to train new Arabic-speaking social workers, who will help thousands of Arab families.

We continue to abhor the fact that at least 31 Palestinian schools are named after terrorists and, likewise, that an Israeli Minister seems to call for the wipeout of a Palestinian village. This was rightly condemned by the head of the IDF and others in Israel.

Initiatives such as those taken by British donors, as I have described, can make a difference. In a recent poll conducted by the Washington Institute in East Jerusalem, half of the Palestinians asked said that, if they had to make a choice, they would prefer to become citizens of Israel than of the Palestinian state. Their recent experience of access to Israel’s healthcare, social welfare, benefits and jobs is making a difference. We need to ensure that this direction of travel is continued.

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, in the spirit of trying to help the Government, I will repeat what I said in relation to an earlier group of amendments: it would help the Committee, as well as the other place, if the Government could give us an indication of the type of regulations that they have in mind, so that we do not have this blanket provision before us today. There is still time to do that.

I will also ask a question of information. I understand that the “provision” to which the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, refers in removing it from this particular clause does not apply to agricultural subsidies. So, if it is the case that agricultural subsidies are still going to apply, who is in a position at the moment to decide on that, and within what timeframe would that be?

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, I have been looking at Clause 12 through a particular prism. As my entry in the register of interests discloses, I have a particular interest in financial services. I am also an investor in various enterprise investment and seed enterprise investment companies, which I will refer to as EIS and SEIS companies, and venture capital trusts. For those who are not aware, EIS schemes are those which allow UK investors to invest in UK companies and deduct the amount invested in those companies against their income tax at prescribed rates to encourage investment in private companies.

For some time, I have been frustrated that these truly excellent schemes have been hampered by restrictions. The schemes are hugely popular. EIS has helped some 66,000 companies in the UK in total, with some 3,755 companies raising over £1.5 billion last year alone. Since 2018, VCTs have made some 1,000 investments, raising £1.7 billion, of which 45% were less than £1 million. So I am very concerned by anything that threatens the existence of these schemes and am keen to find ways of enhancing their effectiveness. There are, however, restrictions and regulations reducing the opportunity for UK businesses to raise this vital small equity for essentially risky enterprises, and I have been concerned that these restrictions have in part been due to the requirements of EU state aid rules.

The enormous success of the EIS and VCT schemes is very much a British phenomenon and probably viewed with some mistrust by the EU, given our tremendous track record in starting and growing new UK businesses. In fact, most businessmen and investors I have spoken to are amazed to discover that it is governed by EU state aid rules. Fortunately, at the moment we have EU approval for the design of the EIS and VCT schemes under Article 107 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, and the smaller SEI schemes, due to their size, fall within Article 21 of the general block exemption regulation. However, as we decide how to plough our own path post Brexit, it is important that we are entirely free to create our own rules concerning subsidies that might amount to state aid—within, of course, the constraints of WTO and other commitments.

As mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, we now have our own Subsidy Control Act but, under the protocol, some EU state aid rules still apply. I can see the issue, namely that the EU is worried that a company based in Belfast has cheaper finance than a competitor in Dublin—but, frankly, that should be our choice and the choice of other countries to offer incentives to finance their businesses.

Why do we have this problem? As Andrew Harper helpfully wrote in the British Tax Review in autumn 2020, the two sides promote opposing perspectives: the EU very much promulgating its state aid regime on the basis of the level playing field and the UK adopting the subsidy language of the World Trade Organization. This is much more than a semantic or linguistic distinction. It is one of substance, both in the scope and the enforceability of the rules.

In these circumstances it appears sensible to point out the key issues that could arise. Without Clause 12 —and I am aware that there is a stand part debate following—first, the EIS and VCT schemes as they operate in Northern Ireland will presumably have to remain fully EU state aid compliant because of EIS companies and VCT investees based in the Province trading with the Irish Republic or the wider EU. Secondly, following from that, barring the UK Government being prepared to countenance two separate systems within the UK, the EIS and VCT schemes as they apply to England, Wales and Scotland will be difficult to modify.

Thirdly, if, post transition, these schemes were to diverge as between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, what is the position in the case of, say, an English EIS company raising scheme funding that would be in excess of that sanctioned by EU state aid rules? If that English company then sends its goods to Northern Ireland, where potentially they can be traded with the south or the rest of the EU, how will that be allowed to happen? It simply cannot make sense to exclude Clause 12.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

May I ask the noble Lord two questions? First, should these problems not have been considered by the United Kingdom Government before they signed the protocol? Secondly, is there any reason why these problems cannot be raised in the negotiations with the EU to take place in the near future?

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

I cannot answer for the UK Government on whether they should have been raised before; that is clearly historical and we are where we are. In theory, there could be a negotiation with the EU to try to deal with some of these problems, but we would be on the back foot and there would be no reason for the EU to agree, whereas Clause 12 deals with it satisfactorily.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I associate myself with my noble friend Lord Purvis of Tweed and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, who have made the case in very strong terms for why subsection (3) should be removed. I pause only to make one observation: it does not even specify the Minister but says:

“A Minister of the Crown”.


So not only is it an extremely wide power, it is a power available to any Minister in any ministry of any kind, at any time, without any restraint whatever. How can that possibly be consistent with the principles on which we pass legislation in this Chamber?

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[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

That is helpful, thank you. What kind of measures do we anticipate, and what would be their impact? It is all very well to play hardball and say, “This is what we will do”, but that will always have a consequence and we need to understand what that might be. Not to do so would be deeply irresponsible.

Then there is the issue of powers. A lot has been said and I agree with pretty much all of it. Clause 12(3), which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, referred to, says

“may, by regulations, make any provision which the Minister considers appropriate in connection with any provision of the … Protocol to which this section relates.”

That is incredibly broad and we ask whether it is necessary for it to be so broad. If I have understood the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Leigh, correctly, he seeks to put some sort of frame around it. We are all very concerned about where those powers might lead us.

The problem is that we have to look at this in conjunction with the Subsidy Control Act, which is itself very broad, has powers for Ministers and lacks clarity about what the UK Government intend for Great Britain’s subsidy regime. We are compounding one unknown with another. That is quite a lot for noble Lords to swallow. We have been asked to show a lot of faith in Ministers when really what we need, and what the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, has signalled he would like too, is some more information and draft regulations. We want to know where we are going with all this so that we can assess whether it will be the right approach to benefit businesses in Northern Ireland and answer the challenge made by the DUP. At the moment, I can see a set of circumstances in which it would not.

It is right that these issues are resolvable only by negotiation; we all know that. We have to start accepting that and asking ourselves whether the Bill’s approach will assist those negotiations in reaching a positive outcome. My noble friend Lady Ritchie said that this is something where we want the voice of the Northern Ireland Assembly. We want to know what MLAs from all communities have to say. It really matters that we hear from all sides, because this is about solving problems, not making things worse. The Bill really does risk making things worse.

The only other thing I would add is that there is now a different subsidy control regime in Great Britain, but where are this interventionist Conservative Government, who are making use of their new powers up and down the country? Speaking as somebody from the north-east of England, we see lots of tinkering and plenty of things that we could have done whether we were in or outside the EU. I do not particularly see that there will be the massive difference that warrants the kind of tension this is leading to. I suggest that the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, and my own are designed to be helpful. These are issues that we will not make progress on through this Bill.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness that I was trying to create a framework, in a very amateurish way that is way above my normal pay grade. I take her point that she is trying to do the same thing with her Amendment 18, which is sensible, but does she think removing Clause 12 would weaken or strengthen our hand in the negotiations? If a vote on the clause standing part was to take place, what would be her plans for those people planning EIS investments in the future?

Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Thursday 7th April 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, I join the congratulations to my noble friend Lord Polak on securing this debate. It is always daunting and an honour to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Deech. Of course, I always listen to my noble friend Lord Lamont with respect and interest.

Despite Biden’s presidential campaign commitment, there have been few indications that the US and other JCPOA signatories aim to open up a second negotiating track following what are called the “regional issues”, which are essentially Iranian support for regional terrorism, and its ballistic missile development and diffusion. There have been few indications of support for opening this track by the E3 European signatories, including the UK. The UK must use its leverage with the Biden Administration, following their commitment to return to the JCPOA, to establish a second negotiating track on regional issues, as the Question suggests.

Iran has been flexing its muscles in breaching the already deeply flawed JCPOA, which it was successful in persuading the West to sign, and has been breaking other resolutions around missile development and terrorism since Obama’s time, but since Biden’s time it has pushed the envelope to the limit. A recent International Atomic Energy Agency report on Iran’s nuclear programme noted that the stock of enriched uranium amassed by Iran in breach of its 2015 nuclear deal is growing to the point that its most highly enriched material is most of the way to a common bomb yardstick. The report argues that Iran is in the final stretch of producing the material needed for a weapon. Its stock of uranium enriched up to 60% fissile purity has almost doubled to 33.2 kg. A senior diplomat said that that is around three-quarters of the amount needed, if enriched further, for a nuclear bomb, according to the definition of a nuclear bomb.

The IAEA has found particles of processed uranium at three apparently old sites that Iran never declared. The agency has been seeking answers from Iran but has repeatedly said that Tehran has not provided satisfactory answers. Iran wants the IAEA investigation ended as part of an agreement, but western powers have argued that the issue is beyond the scope of the 2015 deal, to which, of course, the IAEA is not a party. Iran has been very cunning. Its facilities are geographically distributed and often underground, so are very hard to destroy.

Meanwhile, Iran is the founder and primary political, military and financial backer of Hezbollah, a UK-proscribed Shia terrorist organisation based in Lebanon. It has evolved into a hybrid organisation carrying out international terrorist attacks and regional military operations. Iran has provided Hezbollah with hundreds of millions of dollars in support, as well as military resources. Hezbollah is believed to possess as many as 150,000 missiles—10 times its capacity during the 2006 war with Israel. I declare for the record that I am a member of the APPG on Israel.

In Gaza, Iran has long financially and politically backed terrorist groups such as Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Its support has increased in recent months, including its provision of weapons and military know-how. As recently as January 2021, the IRGC Aerospace Force commander, Amir Ali Hajizadeh, stated:

“All the missiles you might see in Gaza and Lebanon were created with Iran’s support.”


Thanks to Iran’s technological support, Gaza’s terrorists were able to use more advanced weaponry, including long-range rockets, heavier warheads and drone technology.

The UK should use its leverage with the US to press for a second negotiating track with Iran on these regional issues. Having supported the Biden Administration’s efforts, against some people’s better judgments, to revive the JCPOA, the UK is well placed to discuss with the US establishing a second track of negotiations to end Iran’s regional destabilisation immediately following the conclusion of JCPOA negotiations.

Finally, as has been mentioned, Iran continues to insist that the IRGC be delisted as a foreign terrorist organisation in the United States. The UK Government have not revealed their intention with regard to the UK’s listing of the IRGC as a terrorist organisation. The UK’s integrated review—a landmark document setting out the UK’s role in the world—noted Iran as a primary threat to global peace and security. Given that the IRGC meets all the criteria for proscription set out in the Terrorism Act 2000, I say to the Minister that now should be the time for the UK to undertake proscription of the IRGC and to urge the US not to delist it.