Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill

Lord Leong Excerpts

Wednesday 25th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Crisp (CB)]

My Lords, may I pick up on that point?

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Leong) (Lab)]

The Minister needs to respond.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I cannot express my sadness enough about the issues that the noble Baroness raises, but I am seeking to reassure her and the House that the provisions we are bringing in will be sufficient as we move forward. That is the issue. I think the Minister she referred to from the conversation on Monday was the Minister in the other place, not me. I am sorry that she is not satisfied with the letter, but I know that he went into meticulous detail and I am confident that he responded.

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[Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Motion D and briefly to Motion F. I place on record the fact that I am extremely grateful to the Government for bringing forward Amendment 17B in lieu, in response to the amendments that I tabled in Committee and on Report. It is a major step forward in strengthening and protecting children in care’s relationships with their brothers and sisters, including half- and step-siblings. I am particularly grateful that the wording of the government amendment is broad and inclusive—something I very much support, as we discussed in earlier stages. I thank the Minister, Minister MacAlister and the Bill team for their very constructive engagement on this issue.

Over the years, I have heard directly from care-experienced children and young people about the absolutely crushing impact of not having consistent or adequate contact with their siblings. Sometimes their siblings are the only other people who know, who understand, who have shared experiences of what they have been through and the emotional distress it has caused them. They are the ones who can provide mutual support; it is a lifelong bond. So this amendment is a really important step forward in ensuring that contact with siblings is given the same weight in legislation as contact with parents.

Getting to this point has felt like a long journey. I place on record my heartfelt thanks to the colleagues across the House and in the other place who have supported us in getting through this process. I also thank two charities, Become and the Family Rights Group, for their unwavering support; they have campaigned on this issue for many years. It is vital that this change, which I hope we will see in legislation, drives practice so that all children who are separated from their siblings are supported in having the contact with their brothers and sisters that they need, whenever it is in their best interests to do so. I will be monitoring this with great care.

I turn briefly to Motion F and the deprivation of liberty. It is quite a complex subject, so I will not go into all the ins and outs, but I think we can all agree that the needs of children who are deprived of their liberty is something to which we need to give serious thought and attention, particularly in understanding better the increasing use of deprivation of liberty orders. I commend the work that the Nuffield Observatory has been doing in this area, because these children’s needs—including the help and support that they need, however they are funded—clearly require a package that involves health, social care, education and sometimes criminal justice. It needs to be effective. It needs to be a fully integrated package of health and support; at the heart of this is how that would best be delivered.

I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to see the letter to which she referred, which was sent to the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, and the noble Lord, Lord Bellingham, about what is going on in this area. I read very carefully about what is happening in relation to the deprivation of liberty. I am encouraged that the work the Government are taking forward now has a national programme to try to understand the evidence better and to understand the options around things such as pooled budgets and the like. As I understand it, there are pilots taking place, with some more in train. Importantly, there is funding to test better-integrated, joined-up working and ideas for pooled budgets, improved collaboration, et cetera. It is encouraging that that is taking place.

My understanding—I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm this—is that that work is being backed up by £15.5 million of DfE funding over the next three years. I would also be grateful if, given the concerns that have been raised in this area, the House could be provided regular updates on this programme, including on the outcomes and the key findings that it is delivering.

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

I gently remind all noble Lords that, if they wish to speak, they should do so before the Official Opposition wind up, and that they should not be repeating lengthy arguments that have already been debated in Committee and on Report. Should they speak, they should speak briefly and to the amendments.

[Lord Meston (CB)]

My Lords, I was going to be brief in agreeing with what the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, just said and in welcoming Motion D, because the Government’s proposed amendment in lieu, which relates to sibling contact, is to be welcomed; indeed, it is a pleasant surprise. It promotes the local authority’s duty from the schedule to the Children Act to Section 34 of the Act, and reinforces it as a positive duty to allow contact between siblings; at the same time, it gives the court a major say in the type of contact, the level of contact and how it should progress.

Through their amendment, the Government have recognised in primary legislation the real significance of sibling relationships, particularly when siblings have to be separated and have differing needs. These are children whose parents have failed them, and the most important relationship left to them is with a sibling. The courts and legal professionals are familiar with the working of Section 34, which will now govern these cases, and the amendment will be a valuable, beneficial addition to it.

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[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

I do not want to delay, and I have written a lot more.

At the very least, to finish off, I would have thought that, before Parliament embarks on such drastic measures in delegated power form, handing these powers over to the Government—I note that the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, said that they were only powers and the Government were not going to act on them, and I thought, “Good, I don’t want them to act on these particular powers because these powers are very far-reaching and we have no control over them”—should we not at least look at what has happened in relation to the ban in Australia? More than 50% of children—

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

Will the noble Baroness just wind up? We need to move on.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

I keep being interrupted. In Australia, after the ban more than 50% of children are still using social media. Teens are being pushed underground, away from mainstream platforms into darker corners of the internet, without safeguards and with zero moderation. It is risky and dangerous behaviour. Rather than having adult help and guidance in negotiating the online world and recognising its virtues, not just its vices, they are just being banned.

Finally, I also think we need to be open that it is not just children who will be affected by both sides of these amendments. We know that there will be detrimental effects on the civil liberties of all UK internet users, of all ages, because they will lead to mandatory biometric age checks and/or digital ID requirements that will apply to the whole of the UK population, whatever age they are. I appreciate that whenever we talk about children and protecting children, civil liberties and freedoms are pooh-poohed and wafted away. I happen to think that it is important for the children we are rearing and socialising to understand that a free society requires somebody, somewhere, remembering that freedom and civil liberties are worth fighting for.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, there have been very few speakers from the Labour Benches and I want to make sure that those who are supporting the amendments before the House today understand that, within this party, it is not exactly as was set out by the Minister. There are those of us who are very keen to support the movement that we can detect today in the thinking of this House. I want to be quite clear that I am not alone in that.

I want to say three things. First, part of the problem we have here is that we are running towards the end of a Session that does not have the right Bills, which makes it very difficult to get the issues we want into play. Secondly, there is no guarantee that there will be Bills in the next King’s Speech that will allow us to continue the debate and move forward at the pace we want to. The feeling that the House has, and I am sure I speak for all of us when I say this, is that something has gone wrong with the legislative structure that we have in place in this area and, in line with what so many people have said today, we need to find a way of getting into our laws the sorts of measures that are needed to take us forward on this.

I offer the Minister the following option: the only way we can get this in play, continue it and get to the right solution is to back the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Nash. I think we should do that. I do not agree with all that he is saying, and he knows that because I have talked to him about it, and I do not think bans are generally a good thing, but it is the only way to get in play a chance to look again at the other amendment that is before us today on this issue, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron. I know that she has worked hard on trying to get a form of words into her amendment, which she will not press, that would take the Government to a place where I think they will be comfortable, limiting the powers they want to take, focusing on the areas that they have not yet covered but which they must cover in terms of the way in which we relate to our regulator, and doing it in a way that is expedient and effective and will get quickly to the help that we so urgently need. I urge the Minister to think carefully about that and to support us as we move forward.

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, we really must get to the Front Benches.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, to sum up this debate briefly, I have nothing new to add. I merely agree with certain noble Lords who have already spoken. As for the Government’s approach, Henry VII’s son is all over it, and that is never a good thing for a Bill. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, on that. The approach I and many on these Benches would have preferred is that of the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, but what we are dealing with here is something that the noble Lord, Lord Nash, has done with considerable success and skill: namely, seize the argument and throw it back to the Government to see what they are going to do. I suggest that the Government listen very hard to us. What they have proposed is not meeting it for this House. What we want to do is to get something effective in play. I hope the Government will listen. We will be supporting the noble Lord, Lord Nash, in the Division Lobby if he decides to come forward.